Roster Support over the past three years (Beane)

[Bruffalo]

30 minutes ago, MPL said:

For the sake of my own research, can anyone identify an elite general manager or elite head coach whose career success isn't directly tied to an elite, or at the very least excellent, quarterback? 

Ozzie Newsome before Flacco is the only one that comes to mind. 2001 Ravens had the best defense since the 85 Bears. 

[Roundybout]

10 hours ago, cantankerous said:

It’s disgusting to think we could have Worthy instead of Coleman. This is not a Super Bowl team. 

Worthy wouldn’t change a single thing on offense IMO 

[Success]

I knew it was bad - I didn't think it was THIS bad.

 

They're really been riding the coattails of picking the best QB in the draft the year we got Allen. Otherwise, this is a truly terrible track record.  And we overpay for quite a few pretty average players, giving us even fewer options to improve the roster.

 

It's all pretty sad.  Even if they replaced Beane today, it might take years for a new GM to right the ship. 

 

[ddaryl]

I'll judge this team after we get some players back after the bye, but I am not encouraged.


Honestly we need a salary cap reset, there are lots of players making too much money for their level of play. Beane's drafting has not helped much because that is where you get difference makers on affordable contracts. But you got to draft the actual difference makers

We need Hairston to come back and make a difference because our DB's are pretty sad as a whole right now.

We need LBs because Milano is a bit of a  glass tiger these days, and nobody has stepped up here much

Our DL has a solid chance to get better after the bye but that is wait and see, and will it be enough to make the rest of the D play jump up 2 or 3 notches cause 1 notch ain't going to do it.

WR's are average on their best days. Speed is always nice but there are plenty of WR's who run 4.4 have had fantastic careers. SO either its bad route running or the fact that every season Josh has to get in synch with a significantly altered WR crew and is just not gelling this year early.

Coleman just does not use his size the way we envisioned

Just my opinion based off the 1st part of our season. I probably have more to say but not off the top of my head right now.

Edited 20 hours ago by ddaryl

[boyst]

11 hours ago, Norcalbillsfan said:

I also think the issue is josh wants keon to be a thing so bad. People forget he told beane he liked keon and wanted him in the draft. I won't say the book is written but josh has given him a ton of back shoulder and red zone jump balls, what keon is supposed to be elite at and it hasn't produced much at all.

I will never buy that. On face value yes I'm sure that was said. I'm sure it was something like a list of 8 receivers Josh liked.

I'm sure keon Coleman was on the bottom of that list with much better talents but Josh did not have someone like Xavier worthy or Xavier leggett on there. He probably had lad McConky or ricky persal, too. They had lower grades per some. 

 

Leggette and worthy were not what this team needed. The bills gambled and traded back to get a guy. It was the wrong guy. 

[Gunsgoodtime]

3 minutes ago, boyst said:

I will never buy that. On face value yes I'm sure that was said. I'm sure it was something like a list of 8 receivers Josh liked.

I'm sure keon Coleman was on the bottom of that list with much better talents but Josh did not have someone like Xavier worthy or Xavier leggett on there. He probably had lad McConky or ricky persal, too. They had lower grades per some. 

 

Leggette and worthy were not what this team needed. The bills gambled and traded back to get a guy. It was the wrong guy. 

Yes people blow the Allen wanted Coleman thing completely out of proportion.  A question was asked to Aleen which recievers he would like, then Allen named off a bunch of recevers in the draft and Keon was mentioned.  These same people probably watch the msm because that is exactly what they do, take pieces of a statement and make it into something its not

[boyst]

2 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

Yes people blow the Allen wanted Coleman thing completely out of proportion.  A question was asked to Aleen which recievers he would like, then Allen named off a bunch of recevers in the draft and Keon was mentioned.  These same people probably watch the msm because that is exactly what they do, take pieces of a statement and make it into something its not

Well of course Bill's marketing has to sell it as all this is the guy we really wanted and how great it is to finally get the guy they had their sites on the whole time.

 

Yeah, I'm sure if Marvin Harrison Jr was still there when the Bills pick they had their target on Coleman all along and would have passed up Harrison Jr. Lol

[VW82]

Not sure I agree with this thread.
 

2023 we hit on our top two. Dorian is about what you get with a 3rd rd pick. The rest were late picks.

 

2025 already has shown some keepers in Deone and Hawes, but anyone judging this draft six games into the first year when key contributors have been injured needs to give their head a shake.

 

2024 is the draft to hang on Beane. It’s still early but it’s not looking good.

 

FA has been tough given our cap situation which I do pin on Beane but at the same time we signed Von and extended Diggs because they were stars and we were competing for a championship. Had they not done those deals everyone would’ve complained Beane wasn’t doing enough for Josh.

[TheBrownBear]

I think there's some recency bias here, but yes, Beane seems to be missing at higher and higher rates.  That 2024 draft - woof!  It's looking like it could be a complete wash. As of today, I can't see any of those players earning a second contract and I wouldn't be shocked to see some of them moved for whatever we can get within the next 12 months.

 

Edit: And I am now 100% on board with the folks who say that Beane can't identify WR talent to save his life. He made some good moves early in his tenure by trading for Diggs and signing Beasley, but outside of getting lucky with Shakir, he's been absolutely horrendous. He's seeming enamoured with these big bodied types who are complete stiffs (Benjamin, Davis, Coleman, Shorter, Prather, etc.).  I know he was a 5th round pick, but I became seriously concerned about the issue when Beane wasted a pick on Justin Shorter - a guy that anyone with a functioning set of eyes could see had no hope of translating into an NFL player.  And I'm not sure what the hell he was thinking when he signed Curtis Samuel - who is just completely redundant with Shakir on the roster (and then adding Moore on top of it).  Just an absolute waste of $24m.

Edited 19 hours ago by TheBrownBear

[RyanC883]

13 hours ago, wppete said:

Jackson Hawes has been a very productive player for a 5th Round pick. This year its only Walker and Hawes. 

 

he had one good game.  

1 hour ago, Success said:

I knew it was bad - I didn't think it was THIS bad.

 

They're really been riding the coattails of picking the best QB in the draft the year we got Allen. Otherwise, this is a truly terrible track record.  And we overpay for quite a few pretty average players, giving us even fewer options to improve the roster.

 

It's all pretty sad.  Even if they replaced Beane today, it might take years for a new GM to right the ship. 

 

 

I'm not sure it would take too long.  On offense you have Allen, and the OL is probablly elite at run blocking and good in pass protection.  So you get a RB 2 and have a stud running game.  You trade 1sts or whatever to get an actual WR1.  You also get a new OC who knows how to utilize this talent.  The remaining stable of WR2s we have should be fine if the WR1 can take the top CB away. That should solve the offense.  

 

Defense is a bit more tricky.  You need run stopping DT, better ends, completely new LBs (bigger ones who are not injury prone) and a new secondary.  Just fill any of those spots with the most impactful player you can get, leaving the rest until it can be upgraded.  

 

But, with a WR1, RB2, and one actual impact part on D who is not over the hill, this team could turn it around quickly (oh, also new coaching, at least at OC).  

[RyanC883]

1 hour ago, blitzboy54 said:

I was told by Brandon Beane, half this board and most of the guys that cover the team that the only issue was I had a bad attitude. Sal is on the radio today defending this tire fire with injury excuses. 

 

It's to a point now the team needs to implode to get these clowns out of here and make a run in Allen's second act. The cap alone is going to cost us at least next year. 

 

the injury excuse is such utter garbage.  First, you should have better backups.  Second, tons of teams have studs hurt.  The Bucs are missing 2 stud WRs.  Oh, and then the rookie they drafted, also a stud, gets hurt, and Mayfield is still making it work.  SF has a ton of injuries.   The Pats had 1/2 their offensive line hurt when we played them yet we couldn't take advantage of it.  

[st pete gogolak]

Talking about roster construction, I’m still puzzled by the Kincaid pick (I’m going to assume he is a very promising, potential star who can hopefully avoid the injury bug going forward). Upon drafting him, I thought the Bills would do one of two things (1) trade Dawson Knox; or (2) play a majority of offensive snaps out of a two TE, one RB formation (similar to the Peyton Manning Colts who played exclusively two TE with Dallas Clark being the “pass catching TE”).  The Bills did neither.  So now you have a lot of money tied up in a backup TE role, as well as having a small slot (Shakir), big slot (Kincaid) and a guy who should be exclusively a big slot (Coleman).  It’s terrible roster construction.

[Bermuda Triangle]

1 hour ago, MPL said:

For the sake of my own research, can anyone identify an elite general manager or elite head coach whose career success isn't directly tied to an elite, or at the very least excellent, quarterback? 

Howie Roseman 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

14 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

The consensus for a long time is McD is elite and Beane is elite. I called flaming horse crap awhile ago. You don’t have an MVP QB, elite HC and elite GM and not get over the hump in almost 10 years. One or more than one element to that is not as good as perceived. I would point at GM even before HC.
 

This just isn’t a championship caliber roster and it’s been going backwards for awhile now. Iteration one was far better than two. Like light years better. We are no longer getting the Beasley, Brown, Poyer or Hyde FA’s. That quality has been replaced with tier 2 acquisitions, fringe starters serving as primary players. 
 

No, Buffalo players are not getting snubbed in the Pro Bowl or Top 100, they just aren’t very good. The consistent lack of representation on these lists is just a byproduct of it.
 

The good ones you mention, like Torrence and Kincaid are first rounders at positions teams rarely even use first round picks on. So ya, we sort of had to hit there. 
 

Beane is a witch alright, it’s just in PR and sales, not talent acquisition. He has sold this entire fan base that he knows what the hell he’s doing. He even doubled down on then offseason reminding the fanbase how “dumb” it was to think we need additional WR help. Good thing we have all this C talent locked up on extension. 
 

 

 

What am i looking at with this play?  At the 2 second mark this ball could go to an uncovered shakir.  If Josh bails right he probably has coleman. 

[MPL]

23 minutes ago, Bermuda Triangle said:

2 hours ago, MPL said:

For the sake of my own research, can anyone identify an elite general manager or elite head coach whose career success isn't directly tied to an elite, or at the very least excellent, quarterback? 

Howie Roseman 

Most of Roseman's success has come with Jalen Hurts, and I consider Hurts a very good to excellent quarterback. They had some bad seasons early on in the true Roseman era. 

That said, what makes Roseman an exceptional GM is that he makes the hard decisions that 99% of GMs won't make, i.e., moving on from Wentz, moving on from Pederson a few years after winning their first Super Bowl. Though, it's unclear to me how much of Pederson leaving was Roseman's decision or Pederson wanting out. 

2 hours ago, Bruffalo said:

2 hours ago, MPL said:

For the sake of my own research, can anyone identify an elite general manager or elite head coach whose career success isn't directly tied to an elite, or at the very least excellent, quarterback? 

Ozzie Newsome before Flacco is the only one that comes to mind. 2001 Ravens had the best defense since the 85 Bears. 

Alright, we've got 1 GM not tied to a QB so far. 

[In Summary]

It's a Beane problem. 

[mjt328]

Brandon Beane is like someone who miraculously hits a hole-in-one on his first ever golf shot.

First impression, everyone just assumes he's amazing.  But after 5-6 holes full of missed putts and double bogeys, the truth starts to rear it's ugly head.

 

Beane struck gold with Josh Allen right off the bat.  Many Bills fans also gave him absentee credit for the excellent 2017 draft class, which landed us Tre White, Dion Dawkins and Matt Milano, even though he hadn't actually been hired yet.  But as the sample size has grown, and the final verdict had been reached on his draft selections... it's amazing how poorly he's done for a team consistently considered a Super Bowl contender.

 

Even in free agency.  For those early years, we always joked about how many washed-up players Beane poached from the old Carolina Panthers roster.  Now he's doing the same with OUR old over-the-hill players.  It's almost like he's got no idea what other talent lies on the other 31 teams.

 

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

18 hours ago, KOKBILLS said:

 

Agreed...

Am I allowed to go all the way back to the DK Metcalf Draft? 

Let's do it.

 

Again I ask: if you could have DK Metcalf or the combination of Ed Oliver and and absolute scrub OL prospect, who are you taking?

[EmotionallyUnstable]

19 hours ago, Mikie2times said:

The consensus for a long time is McD is elite and Beane is elite. I called flaming horse crap awhile ago. You don’t have an MVP QB, elite HC and elite GM and not get over the hump in almost 10 years. One or more than one element to that is not as good as perceived. I would point at GM even before HC.
 

This just isn’t a championship caliber roster and it’s been going backwards for awhile now. Iteration one was far better than two. Like light years better. We are no longer getting the Beasley, Brown, Poyer or Hyde FA’s. That quality has been replaced with tier 2 acquisitions, fringe starters serving as primary players. 
 

No, Buffalo players are not getting snubbed in the Pro Bowl or Top 100, they just aren’t very good. The consistent lack of representation on these lists is just a byproduct of it.
 

The good ones you mention, like Torrence and Kincaid are first rounders at positions teams rarely even use first round picks on. So ya, we sort of had to hit there. 
 

Beane is a witch alright, it’s just in PR and sales, not talent acquisition. He has sold this entire fan base that he knows what the hell he’s doing. He even doubled down on then offseason reminding the fanbase how “dumb” it was to think we need additional WR help. Good thing we have all this C talent locked up on extension. 
 

 

Not arguing anything you wrote; but this is a bizarre clip to show as the authors support: The play where we lose our Center to injury and a backup enters, who between him and the LG don’t handle the twist the right way. 
 

The mesh might have actually been there had they not completely blown the protection. 
 

Again, not arguing the perspective but it just feels like a better example could have been shown. 

[Juice_32]

That 2024 draft is looking absolutely brutal.