PSL Pricing/Seat Selection Discussion

[eball]

15 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

…and the superfan has spoken!  😂

 

You know what?  I am a super fan.  I’m glad you recognize it! 👍🏻

[SDS]

3 hours ago, eball said:

 

You mean the long time STH who benefited from the greatest deal in the history of professional sports for decades?  Those STH?

 

Cry me a river, buddy.

 

 

People don’t understand that the Baltimore Ravens had PSL‘s back in the late 90s. Buffalo STHs have been the cat who caught the canary for the last 25+ years. 
 

[Kirby Jackson]

37 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

…and the superfan has spoken!  😂

 

21 minutes ago, eball said:

 

You know what?  I am a super fan.  I’m glad you recognize it! 👍🏻

The guy has almost 34,000 posts on a team message board. Are we now questioning the dedication of @eball because he is okay with the pricing getting more in line with the rest of the league? 😂😂 That makes him less of a fan?? 

[LabattBlue]

3 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

The guy has almost 34,000 posts on a team message board. Are we now questioning the dedication of @eball because he is okay with the pricing getting more in line with the rest of the league? 😂😂 That makes him less of a fan?? 

…okay that he is complaining about fans who may be priced out of the new stadium?

 

…and post quantity means quality? 😂

Edited April 20 by LabattBlue

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, LabattBlue said:

…okay that he is complaining about fans who may be priced out of the new stadium?

He’s not complaining about anyone. He’s saying, “that’s the nature of the league.” Bills fans have had the best value in the league for generations. Now, they are going to be more in line with everyone else. We all should enjoy what we pay now because in 2 short seasons it’ll be double. That’s the market rate for NFL tickets. Bills fans pay those prices already when they’re on the road taking over opponents stadiums. Whining that we are now going to pay market rate is what he objected to. 

[Augie]

2 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

…okay that he is complaining about fans who may be priced out of the new stadium?

 

As unfortunate as that is, we all knew it was coming.  It just stings when we start seeing it actually happen. 

[LabattBlue]

6 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s not complaining about anyone. He’s saying, “that’s the nature of the league.” Bills fans have had the best value in the league for generations. Now, they are going to be more in line with everyone else. We all should enjoy what we pay now because in 2 short seasons it’ll be double. That’s the market rate for NFL tickets. Bills fans pay those prices already when they’re on the road taking over opponents stadiums. Whining that we are now going to pay market rate is what he objected to. 

No beef with you Kirby.  I will move on. 

[Kirby Jackson]

32 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:

No beef with you Kirby.  I will move on. 

None with you either 🍻🍻. We all want the same thing. 

[WotAGuy]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

We all want the same thing. 

Hookers and blow, amirite?

[SDS]

33 minutes ago, WotAGuy said:

Hookers and blow, amirite?

To be honest, I’m looking for something new.

[mrags]

17 minutes ago, SDS said:

To be honest, I’m looking for something new.

You have to go to the Philippines for that sort of thing  

[SDS]

Is there any evidence that the PSL‘s are selling poorly?

[papazoid]

5 minutes ago, SDS said:

Is there any evidence that the PSL‘s are selling poorly?

 

not to my way of thinking

 

but the sample size is small.....it was reported that 75% of the account holders who went thru the "experience" signed up for the new stadium PSL & tix. but that was all the more affluent club seat holders. also, that doesn't factor in how many of the 25% who didn't, will purchase in a lower price area on their 2nd chance.

 

the real test comes when they move to the lower bowl with the so called average joes

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

not to my way of thinking

 

but the sample size is small.....it was reported that 75% of the account holders who went thru the "experience" signed up for the new stadium PSL & tix. but that was all the more affluent club seat holders. also, that doesn't factor in how many of the 25% who didn't, will purchase in a lower price area on their 2nd chance.

 

the real test comes when they move to the lower bowl with the so called average joes

The biggest issue is we don’t know what the PSL costs are of the lower bowls with the “average joes”. For all we know it’s a 2-4k PSL and people have been getting all worked up over 15k PSLs for nothing. 

[eball]

2 hours ago, LabattBlue said:

…and post quantity means quality? 😂

 

Certainly not in your case. 😉

 

 

2 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

He’s not complaining about anyone. He’s saying, “that’s the nature of the league.” Bills fans have had the best value in the league for generations. Now, they are going to be more in line with everyone else. We all should enjoy what we pay now because in 2 short seasons it’ll be double. That’s the market rate for NFL tickets. Bills fans pay those prices already when they’re on the road taking over opponents stadiums. Whining that we are now going to pay market rate is what he objected to. 

 

It really is a shame that you have to explain something that is so plainly obvious…but thanks.

 

Edited April 20 by eball

[Einstein]

31 minutes ago, SDS said:

Is there any evidence that the PSL‘s are selling poorly?

The Buffalo News reported that 1 of ever 4 Season Ticket Holders are choosing not to buy them at their PSL appointments. Some posters have theorized that a percentage of those people may end up purchasing in less-expensive sections than they currently sit so that number may be lower in time, which I think is a fair argument.

Where it gets tricky is whether we can actually trust this number. I don't have any evidence for this, but understanding how organizations think, my hypothesis is that this 25% number is actually a bit higher, and that the Bills are using corporate buys to bump that number (with the goal of creating scarcity). We have seen in other stadiums (Jets and Atlanta for example), that the teams have had to lower prices to sell all of the PSL's.

Whether this all lines up with the Bills internal KPI's is unknown, but I have my doubts on whether Pegula would be raising capital via the sale of a portion of the team if PSL's were selling like hot cakes. My hypothesis is that they were using the club seats as a benchmark for forecasting the remainder of the stadium and they are now realizing that the prices they will be able to charge for other areas will not be as high as they had hoped. Lower prices -> increase % of sold -> raise capital elsewhere.

 

[Rochesterfan]

25 minutes ago, mrags said:

The biggest issue is we don’t know what the PSL costs are of the lower bowls with the “average joes”. For all we know it’s a 2-4k PSL and people have been getting all worked up over 15k PSLs for nothing. 

 

And then you have people all worked up over something they don’t know and a certain poster that then makes up things like the PSLs are not selling and spreads the manure across multiple threads with no proof.

 

He is the equivalent of the fake Mahomes interception thread.  If you make up something and post it - it must be true.

 

🤦‍♂️

3 minutes ago, Einstein said:

The Buffalo News reported that 1 of ever 4 Season Ticket Holders are choosing not to buy them at their PSL appointments. Some posters have theorized that a percentage of those people may end up purchasing in less-expensive sections than they currently sit so that number may be lower in time, which I think is a fair argument.

Where it gets tricky is whether we can actually trust this number. I don't have any evidence for this, but understanding how organizations think, my hypothesis is that this 25% number is actually a bit higher, and that the Bills are using corporate buys to bump that number (with the goal of creating scarcity). We have seen in other stadiums (Jets and Atlanta for example), that the teams have had to lower prices to sell all of the PSL's.

Whether this all lines up with the Bills internal KPI's is unknown, but I have my doubts on whether Pegula would be raising capital via the sale of a portion of the team if PSL's were selling like hot cakes. My hypothesis is that they were using the club seats as a benchmark for forecasting the remainder of the stadium and they are now realizing that the prices they will be able to charge for other areas will not be as high as they had hoped. Lower prices -> increase % of sold -> raise capital elsewhere.

 

 

So no evidence - yet you have stated it as fact in multiple threads.  
 

 

[mrags]

1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

And then you have people all worked up over something they don’t know and a certain poster that then makes up things like the PSLs are not selling and spreads the manure across multiple threads with no proof.

 

He is the equivalent of the fake Mahomes interception thread.  If you make up something and post it - it must be true.

 

🤦‍♂️

The joy of the internet and this generation of people believing something just because it was written. Yeah, written by a 2 bit hack that has no knowledge of the situation anyway. 
 

tomes were so much simpler when we didn’t have instant access to every single bit of “information” 

[GottaRun]

5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

So no evidence - yet you have stated it as fact in multiple threads.  

I think some people desperately want this to fail because they think they'll be able to get tickets in the new stadium cheap like the old/current days. 

That's misguided as any tickets that aren't grabbed by STH are going to be sold as single game tickets at way higher prices than we currently pay for STH.  Not a theory, all you need to do is look and see what the Bills charge for single game tickets now, it's far higher than the STH price.  

[papazoid]

6 minutes ago, Einstein said:

The Buffalo News reported that 1 of ever 4 Season Ticket Holders are choosing not to buy them at their PSL appointments. Some posters have theorized that a percentage of those people may end up purchasing in less-expensive sections than they currently sit so that number may be lower in time, which I think is a fair argument.

Where it gets tricky is whether we can actually trust this number. I don't have any evidence for this, but understanding how organizations think, my hypothesis is that this 25% number is actually a bit higher, and that the Bills are using corporate buys to bump that number (with the goal of creating scarcity). We have seen in other stadiums (Jets and Atlanta for example), that the teams have had to lower prices to sell all of the PSL's.

Whether this all lines up with the Bills internal KPI's is unknown, but I have my doubts on whether Pegula would be raising capital via the sale of a portion of the team if PSL's were selling like hot cakes. My hypothesis is that they were using the club seats as a benchmark for forecasting the remainder of the stadium and they are now realizing that the prices they will be able to charge for other areas will not be as high as they had hoped. Lower prices -> increase % of sold -> raise capital elsewhere.

 

 

PSL's are expected to raise $100-200 million

 

the cost over runs of the new stadium are already $300 mil and likely rising to as much as $600 mil or more

 

irregardless of the PSL success, that doesn't cover the significant cash he needs for the stadium cost over runs

 

 

[papazoid]

if the new stadium seats 63k and they hold back 10% for individual sale.

 

that leaves 57k for PSL & STH

 

one way or another....they are selling out all 57k

[Rochesterfan]

2 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

PSL's are expected to raise $100-200 million

 

the cost over runs of the new stadium are already $300 mil and likely rising to as much as $600 mil or more

 

irregardless of the PSL success, that doesn't cover the significant cash he needs for the stadium cost over runs

 

 

 

And for people complaining about how much NYS covered at 1.4 billion it was 60%, but current costs show it to be running close to 1.7 Billion or a nice 50/50 mix.

 

The final cost is going to end up probably over 2 Billion when done and the Pegula’s covering 60% and over 1 Billion of their own money.  The stadium is going to cost them nearly as much as the team did and the PSLs are only covering the initial fraction.  
 

This most likely has nothing to do with the PSLs and everything to do with future plans and lack of buyers for other pieces like Sabres, Bandits, Rochester teams and the lack of health of poor Kim - all playing into some decisions that need to be planned for.

 

 

[Einstein]

3 minutes ago, papazoid said:

 

PSL's are expected to raise $100-200 million

 

the cost over runs of the new stadium are already $300 mil and likely rising to as much as $600 mil or more

 

irregardless of the PSL success, that doesn't cover the significant cash he needs for the stadium cost over runs

 

It could be part of it, but unless the Bills are run by incredibly inept executives (I don't think they are), then they would have surely had overruns calculated in. This is an internal figure and is typically only surprising to the public (not the company). At no point do you go into a $1.4B project not expecting at least a 20% variance (I believe McKinsey reported a few years back that the average overrun is 25%), which would be nearly $300M budgeted for overruns alone.

PSL money is State money with the Bills acting as agents thereof. Its also not taxed. Every dollar the Bills can produce as agents of PSL's reduces their burden toward the stadium by about $1.087.

 

7 minutes ago, papazoid said:

if the new stadium seats 63k and they hold back 10% for individual sale.

 

that leaves 57k for PSL & STH

 

one way or another....they are selling out all 57k

No question that they will sell out all of the PSLs.

The question is at what price. They are likely using the club seats as a benchmark for the next sections. If these seats are not selling like they hoped, then they are likely now realizing that the prices they will be able to charge for other areas will not be as high as they had hoped. Lower prices -> increase % of sold -> raise capital elsewhere.

[SDS]

5 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:

 

And for people complaining about how much NYS covered at 1.4 billion it was 60%, but current costs show it to be running close to 1.7 Billion or a nice 50/50 mix.

 

The final cost is going to end up probably over 2 Billion when done and the Pegula’s covering 60% and over 1 Billion of their own money.  The stadium is going to cost them nearly as much as the team did and the PSLs are only covering the initial fraction.  
 

This most likely has nothing to do with the PSLs and everything to do with future plans and lack of buyers for other pieces like Sabres, Bandits, Rochester teams and the lack of health of poor Kim - all playing into some decisions that need to be planned for.

 

 

there is no lack of buyers for the Buffalo Sabres. That’s insane.

[papazoid]

4 minutes ago, Einstein said:

 

It could be part of it, but unless the Bills are run by incredibly inept executives (I don't think they are), then they would have surely had overruns calculated in. This is an internal figure and is typically only surprising to the public (not the company). At no point do you go into a $1.4B project not expecting at least a 20% variance (I believe McKinsey reported a few years back that the average overrun is 25%), which would be nearly $300M budgeted for overruns alone.

PSL money is State money with the Bills acting as agents thereof. Its also not taxed. Every dollar the Bills can produce as agents of PSL's reduces their burden toward the stadium by about $1.087.

 

"who gave the order?"

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/companies/the-bills-needed-new-york-states-approval-for-their-psl-rollout-but-who-actually-approved-it/ar-BB1lyBtk

[WotAGuy]

55 minutes ago, Einstein said:

….my hypothesis is that this 25% number is actually a bit higher, and that the Bills are using corporate buys to bump that number (with the goal of creating scarcity). We have seen in other stadiums (Jets and Atlanta for example), that the teams have had to lower prices to sell all of the PSL's.

 

 

I also have an hypothesis: @Einstein is the guy that bathed in the portapotty and fell into the pit.  He now has a vendetta against the new stadium and the Bills. 

[LabattBlue]

2 hours ago, eball said:

 

Certainly not in your case. 😉

 

 

 

It really is a shame that you have to explain something that is so plainly obvious…but thanks.

 

Ouch.  Got me there.  You win superfan.  

[DieHardFan]

3 hours ago, SDS said:

Is there any evidence that the PSL‘s are selling poorly?

Heresay (which seems to pass as 'evidence' in this topic) posted in a FB group discussion on the subject a day ago:

[BillsPride12]

2 minutes ago, DieHardFan said:

Heresay (which seems to pass as 'evidence' in this topic) posted in a FB group discussion on the subject a day ago:

I'm sure they just offered her different seats, and they didn't knock off 10K from their original East Club seats.  But that's not how she wrote her post and that's what creates confusion and chaos in the social media world 

[yall]

Anyone else looking at the field level club? I have an opportunity to split a pair of seats with a friend. I didn't get to do the stadium experience and the 15k PSL is a little much but it looks pretty sweet and I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger.  

 

Just curious if anyone else saw them and had an opinion one way or the other.  

[Bob Lamb]

18 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I don't think anyone has proof if PSL's are selling poorly.

The Bills would not announce anything anyway.

[Kirby Jackson]

27 minutes ago, yall said:

Anyone else looking at the field level club? I have an opportunity to split a pair of seats with a friend. I didn't get to do the stadium experience and the 15k PSL is a little much but it looks pretty sweet and I'm pretty sure I'm going to pull the trigger.  

 

Just curious if anyone else saw them and had an opinion one way or the other.  

I saw them. They looked pretty sweet. Food and Pepsi products are included so that’s a nice bonus. You can’t see the field from inside of the club which is different from the other 2 club areas but still looks like a great area. The team (not sure if it’s one or both) come out from the locker room right in front of the club. That’s a nice touch too. It’s like that in Vegas (I think) too. 

[Bob Lamb]

On 4/17/2024 at 6:25 PM, SDS said:

I have the possibility of splitting a pair of club seats with a family member who currently has a pair of clubs. In their meeting they were quoted 15 K per seat. Is there any advice you guys may have?

 

Just in case you and your partner are not going to use all the tickets yourself - see what the Sabres are doing to ticket resellers. Just looking down the road.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2024/03/11/buffalo-sabres-season-ticket-reselling-crack-down#:~:text=have notified season tic

[Mike in Horseheads]

9 minutes ago, Bob Lamb said:

The Bills would not announce anything anyway.

Always good to see you Bob!

[Kirby Jackson]

18 hours ago, Mike in Horseheads said:

I don't think anyone has proof if PSL's are selling poorly.

 

11 minutes ago, Bob Lamb said:

The Bills would not announce anything anyway.

The only thing that we know definitively is that they sold out of the $50K PSLs. There were 450 of them. I think that they were calling it the Legend’s Club. Everything else is speculation. 

[yall]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

 

The only thing that we know definitively is that they sold out of the $50K PSLs. There were 450 of them. I think that they were calling it the Legend’s Club. Everything else is speculation. 

I heard this as well. As of Thursday evening there were 2 left in the legends club. I'm guessing they didn't last long.

6 minutes ago, Bob Lamb said:

 

Just in case you and your partner are not going to use all the tickets yourself - see what the Sabres are doing to ticket resellers. Just looking down the road.

https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/Articles/2024/03/11/buffalo-sabres-season-ticket-reselling-crack-down#:~:text=have notified season tic

I really wouldn't worry too much about that. 

 

This is the Sabres using a state law to their advantage to crack down on people who buy tickets for the sole purpose of reselling them.

[Just Jack]

On 4/18/2024 at 10:16 PM, mrags said:

Another way to look at it was a new tech that nobody has really really tried yet. If it worked we wouldn’t be complaining about it. From what I hear from people is they preferred those to what we have now. But I’m guessing that’s all opinion. 

 

There was another company when it came time to replace the field in the early 2000's, that was either new to the business, or it was their first NFL field, that the Bills got it cheaper than other established companies, and now they also are out of business. 

 

 

12 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I saw them. They looked pretty sweet. Food and Pepsi products are included so that’s a nice bonus. You can’t see the field from inside of the club which is different from the other 2 club areas but still looks like a great area. The team (not sure if it’s one or both) come out from the locker room right in front of the club. That’s a nice touch too. It’s like that in Vegas (I think) too. 

 

Dallas is another stadium that does this.  

 

 

 

[Bob Lamb]

On 4/18/2024 at 8:55 AM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I want heat so badly. I wonder if any will be left by the time they get to me.

 

I seem to recall the previous attempt at heated seats did not end up so well

 

In 1999 crews completed a seven-month stadium overhaul that included constructing 76 brand-new dugout suites and two new enclosed club sections each containing 500 seats. Fans in the dugout suites watch the action just 40 rows from the field. In addition, the Bills replaced 6,800 seats in the sideline club sections with revolutionary contoured heated seats, the first of their kind in North America. 

 

After a couple of seasons - the system faltered due to global warming (Ooops - I meant weather)

[PromoTheRobot]

6 minutes ago, Bob Lamb said:

 

I seem to recall the previous attempt at heated seats did not end up so well

 

In 1999 crews completed a seven-month stadium overhaul that included constructing 76 brand-new dugout suites and two new enclosed club sections each containing 500 seats. Fans in the dugout suites watch the action just 40 rows from the field. In addition, the Bills replaced 6,800 seats in the sideline club sections with revolutionary contoured heated seats, the first of their kind in North America. 

 

After a couple of seasons - the system faltered due to global warming (Ooops - I meant weather)

 

I'm fine with fry lamps overhead.

Edited April 20 by PromoTheRobot

[Bob Lamb]

8 minutes ago, yall said:

I heard this as well. As of Thursday evening there were 2 left in the legends club. I'm guessing they didn't last long.

I really wouldn't worry too much about that. 

 

This is the Sabres using a state law to their advantage to crack down on people who buy tickets for the sole purpose of reselling them.

 

Camel's nose under the tent - there is no end to the NFL's greed