McDermott - Excuses, Valid but concerning

[Chandler#81]

2 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

After few days since another “Chiefs elimination”, my only thought is that unfortunately we will be stuck with McClapping. 
 

I wanna be clear: overall he’s not a bad coach, but as many here stated tons of times, he’s not elite, he’s not a coach that can take his team to a Lombardi and win it. 
 

I don’t know what is it, but he lacks something here and there, maybe is something about tactical skills, or maybe something about leadership and character, but he’s not a top dog, now is 6 years with Josh at QB ? With one of the top 3 QB in this League ? 
 

So my view is that until he’ll be the coach, nothing could change about our chances to finally get there. 
 

Honestly i envy the Chargers for the Harbaugh hire… i would like to have someone like BB… i don’t care about his past, we need a “bad man” at the helm, not some humble one. 

 

 

To the bolded italic, neither were Landry, Lombardi, Shula nor Belichek and Reid this early on in their HC careers. To claim he can’t get it done while making annual progression toward a SB Title is rather short sighted. He’s proven he can lead a pro football team very well. 
Look, I get frustrated with him at times as well. But he is evolving as a coach and has the respect of upper mgmnt and his players.

[GunnerBill]

11 minutes ago, ScotSHO said:

Or just stop being a fan.  I'd say you're an enabler fan, ensuring we'll never win the big one.

 

 

Haha. Yes because ranting emotionally and incoherently on websites influences football games.

[Bills!Win!]

Am I going to have to create a topic of coaches who won the superbowl that weren’t great or elite ? 

[Chaos]

3 hours ago, Herb said:

stacked roster

The roster is not stacked, outside of Josh.  Von Miller is washed. Tre White is washed.  Every NFL roster has a handful of guys at the Diggs/Kincaid/Oliver level, albeit at different postitons  from team to team.   The Bills super bowl teams were "stacked" with future hall of famers.   In the free agency era, its not clear any NFL teams are "stacked".  Maybe the niners because of the cap advantage of a cheap but good QB. 

[zow2]

56 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I'm not sure I buy the loss is "on the offense" but for all of everything that happened in the game to that point you are absolutely right that at the 2:00 warning the Bills were right where they would have wanted to be. In FG territory already, with control of the ball and the clock and the game in Josh Allen's hands. They just couldn't execute on those two plays coming out of the 2 minute warning. On 2nd down if any one of the three things happens: 1. Dion holds his block another split second; 2. Shakir clears coverage slightly quicker (he just gets held up long enough); or 3. Josh is just able to manoeuvre another 6 inches of space in the pocket to get his throw away...... then the Bills score. 

 

The defense played a poor game, undermanned and our executed. But the offense had the chance to make that all moot at the end and failed to execute themselves. 

 

In Real time a lot of people including me were saying that TIME off the clock was more important than throwing to the end zone for a TD with nearly 2 mins left.  My issue is that even if he hit Shakir for the TD I really liked KC's chances to come down at the end and still win it.  The Bills D wasn't stopping Mahomes in crunch time. The Bills needed to get the 9 yards. KC was giving up short stuff in the middle of the field.  Bleed clock, go for the TD with very little time left, or if it comes down to a game tying FG, Bass would be closer and could likely hit it late and guarantee OT with a very late FG.

 

I thought the script was working out to be our reverse 13 seconds game, where Buffalo had the ball at the end to win...or would kick the FG at the buzzer and win in OT somehow.  Sadly, the worst outcome happened. Cursed.

[Man with No Name]

LOl@ the bills being 76% favorites with 2 minutes left. 

 

that is what you call a broken computer my friends. 

 

and the bills had the ball at the end of the game? had they scored, the chiefs were always gonna have the ball back with decent clock left. 

Edited January 25 by Man with No Name

[SoMAn]

2 hours ago, Italian Bills said:

After few days since another “Chiefs elimination”, my only thought is that unfortunately we will be stuck with McClapping. 
 

I wanna be clear: overall he’s not a bad coach, but as many here stated tons of times, he’s not elite, he’s not a coach that can take his team to a Lombardi and win it. 
 

I don’t know what is it, but he lacks something here and there, maybe is something about tactical skills, or maybe something about leadership and character, but he’s not a top dog, now is 6 years with Josh at QB ? With one of the top 3 QB in this League ? 
 

So my view is that until he’ll be the coach, nothing could change about our chances to finally get there. 
 

Honestly i envy the Chargers for the Harbaugh hire… i would like to have someone like BB… i don’t care about his past, we need a “bad man” at the helm, not some humble one. 

 

 

You're 'stuck'?  There's 31 other NFL teams and a whole world of other things to do.  If it pains you so much, move on. 

[Gregg]

On 1/22/2024 at 11:13 AM, Buffalo03 said:

Andy Reid went to 5 championship games and a Super Bowl in Philly. He just got unlucky in those championship games. The guy went to 4 in a row there, I believe. We can't even get that. The guy also had tons of success with Alex Smith. He was still better than McDermott at this point. It's not like Mahomes made Reid

 

The Eagles moved on from Reid even with those 4 NFCCG appearances. Like many have said here McDermott is a good coach but it appears this is as far as he can take them. Are we going to wait 20 years for him to figure it out. Allen will be wearing a gold jacket in Canton, Ohio by then. 

[Coffeesforclosers]

8 minutes ago, SoMAn said:

You're 'stuck'?  There's 31 other NFL teams and a whole world of other things to do.  If it pains you so much, move on. 

 

Right? Griping about... anything...tends to not accomplish much.

 

Honestly, if the Bills are such a vexation, the guy should become a Pats fan, or a Niners fan, or a Steelers fan. You could literally spend a 24 hour period watching nothing but SB wins. That should be just what the doctor ordered. 

[Simon]

25 minutes ago, zow2 said:

KC was giving up short stuff in the middle of the field.

 

While I do think the Bills were a bit too aggressive coming out of the 2:00 warning, this is simply not true. KC was defending the sticks at that point, which is part of the reason that Shakir was coming free on the post.

[zow2]

2 minutes ago, Gregg said:

 

The Eagles moved on from Reid even with those 4 NFCCG appearances. Like many have said here McDermott is a good coach but it appears this is as far as he can take them. Are we going to wait 20 years for him to figure it out. Allen will be wearing a gold jacket in Canton, Ohio by then. 

 

I'm totally on board with trying something different but i can see the Bills hesitation.  I don't have the stats in front of me but over the last 4-5 years...Buffalo has like the 2nd best overall record (behind KC), the most TDs, the largest point differential, etc..  They have silly offensive stats that should have translated into a SB appearance or two.  We just have the unfortunate situation of having to get through Kansas City to go anywhere.  We are so close to them,,,but they don't blink at the end of games and we do.  Is this all on McDermott? Possibly it is. although did he call the shot into the end zone on 2nd down? I dunno.  Did he miss the FG?

[Chaos]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

you are absolutely right that at the 2:00 warning the Bills were right where they would have wanted to be.

No, at the two minute warning I wanted the Bills to have a 14 point lead.  I think we all know the outcome of Reid vs. McDermott close games.   

[All_Pro_Bills]

23 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

In Real time a lot of people including me were saying that TIME off the clock was more important than throwing to the end zone for a TD with nearly 2 mins left.  My issue is that even if he hit Shakir for the TD I really liked KC's chances to come down at the end and still win it.  The Bills D wasn't stopping Mahomes in crunch time. The Bills needed to get the 9 yards. KC was giving up short stuff in the middle of the field.  Bleed clock, go for the TD with very little time left, or if it comes down to a game tying FG, Bass would be closer and could likely hit it late and guarantee OT with a very late FG.

 

I thought the script was working out to be our reverse 13 seconds game, where Buffalo had the ball at the end to win...or would kick the FG at the buzzer and win in OT somehow.  Sadly, the worst outcome happened. Cursed.

The Bills played a time of possession strategy for 58 minutes and then after the 2-minute rather than continuing to methodically work the ball closer to the goal line and run the clock they mysteriously went with downfield passes.  I can lay this on Allen but did the coaches make it clear to him that we're going to play for the "last shot" situation?  Win or lose leave little to nothing on the clock?  Whether it was a communication issue or a change in direction, I put that on McDermott and Brady.  

 

I expect the 2024 season's excuse will be cap problems which hurt the team's ability to build depth and fill all the holes left in the roster through expiring contracts and other loss of players.  But that's Beane.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Chaos said:

No, at the two minute warning I wanted the Bills to have a 14 point lead.  I think we all know the outcome of Reid vs. McDermott close games.   

 

In one score games vs Reid, McDermott is 3-2. But 0-2 in the playoffs. 

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, zow2 said:

 

I'm totally on board with trying something different but i can see the Bills hesitation.  I don't have the stats in front of me but over the last 4-5 years...Buffalo has like the 2nd best overall record (behind KC), the most TDs, the largest point differential, etc..  They have silly offensive stats that should have translated into a SB appearance or two.  We just have the unfortunate situation of having to get through Kansas City to go anywhere.  We are so close to them,,,but they don't blink at the end of games and we do.  Is this all on McDermott? Possibly it is. although did he call the shot into the end zone on 2nd down? I dunno.  Did he miss the FG?

 

Fair point. Nobody would argue that McDermott is a good coach. Playoff appearances in 6 of the last 7 years. 4 straight AFCE titles. So, I could also understand the Bills hesitation, but 7 years and the playoff failures are becoming a regular thing now. It is a tough call but if it were me, I would make it. I would want Bill here. With an elite level QB he has won big time. His defenses would do a much better job against the likes of Mahomes and Burrow. Another name nobody has mentioned is Pete Carroll. He is an "advisor" for the Seahawks, but he was forced into that role. I think he still wants to coach. Won two national championships at USC and a Super Bowl with Seattle. He is a west coast guy so I don't know if he would want to come east. 

[zow2]

7 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

The Bills played a time of possession strategy for 58 minutes and then after the 2-minute rather than continuing to methodically work the ball closer to the goal line and run the clock they mysteriously went with downfield passes.  I can lay this on Allen but did the coaches make it clear to him that we're going to play for the "last shot" situation?  Win or lose leave little to nothing on the clock?  Whether it was a communication issue or a change in direction, I put that on McDermott and Brady.  

 

I expect the 2024 season's excuse will be cap problems which hurt the team's ability to build depth and fill all the holes left in the roster through expiring contracts and other loss of players.  But that's Beane.

 

The possession strategy, in part to protect the depleted defense was masterful.  Even Travis Kelce said on his podcast that it forced KC to be ultra proficient when they got the ball, because KC knew if their O failed they would not see the ball again for a while.  

Our coaches McD/Brady at the end have to be effing stupid.  That's all I can think.  or Allen went rogue and he should know better.  I really think that even if he hit Shakir, it was at least 50/50 that KC still wins the game.  There would have been too much time left.  

[Gregg]

2 minutes ago, zow2 said:

 

The possession strategy, in part to protect the depleted defense was masterful.  Even Travis Kelce said on his podcast that it forced KC to be ultra proficient when they got the ball, because KC knew if their O failed they would not see the ball again for a while.  

Our coaches McD/Brady at the end have to be effing stupid.  That's all I can think.  or Allen went rogue and he should know better.  I really think that even if he hit Shakir, it was at least 50/50 that KC still wins the game.  There would have been too much time left.  

 

Assuming Bass makes the extra point, which is not a sure thing it would have been 31-27. KC would have needed a TD unlike the FG in the 13 seconds game. It would have been a very nervous 1:30 left on the clock for Bills fans.

Boomer this morning on his WFAN show said Ben Johnson is a lock to become the next HC of the Commanders.

 

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/boomer-esiason-says-commanders-next-head-coach-is-a-lock/ar-BB1hd8uI?ocid=entnewsntp&pc=U531&cvid=e17b38758de84163be72ab55482013c6&ei=19

[SoCal Deek]

Having watched how the game unfolded for the first 58 minutes and having game planned for that exact thing, a smart coaching staff takes every second off the clock, and uses all four downs to keep the damn ball away from the Chiefs offense. The deep throw to Shakir was beyond dumb. I’d even opine that the field goal try was pretty questionable. They should’ve used both third and fourth down to methodically consume clock and SMALL chunks of yards. Choke City……again! 

[phypon]

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

Having watched how the game unfolded for the first 58 minutes and having game planned for that exact thing, a smart coaching staff takes every second off the clock, and uses all four downs to keep the damn ball away from the Chiefs offense. The deep throw to Shakir was beyond dumb. I’d even opine that the field goal try was pretty questionable. They should’ve used both third and fourth down to methodically consume clock and SMALL chunks of yards. Choke City……again! 

I made a similar post right at the thread merge and it got deleted.  I don't understand how you have a game plan for 58 minutes and then abandon it.  At that point, you have 4 downs to get 10 yards, that's it.  If you are bleeding the clock, you bleed the clock.  I can't see JA going "rogue" for 2 plays in a row.  It had to be by design.  The HC and OC should have been on the same page and had their QB on board as well.  Even with a TD there you are giving KC almost 2 minutes with TWO TO's who could move the ball pretty much at will to go for the go ahead score.  They should have stuck with the game plan until there were 5 seconds or less on the clock.  At that point, you either win or go to OT with a chip shot FG.  It's mind boggling and agonizing.  Why did McD change the philosophy at the end of the drive?  It makes no sense.  And, make no mistake about it, that is 100% on him.  !00%!! 

 

Edited to add:  That was a coaching DISASTER!

Edited January 25 by phypon

[Bob Jones]

2 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

You can checkout any time you like, but you can never leave.

On my bucket list is to go one whole day of my life where I only speak or post on social media lyrics from songs.

 

Here's an example:

 

Well you do what you do and you pay for your sins,
And there's no such thing as what might have been,
That's a waste of time, Drive you out of your mind.

 

- Tim McGraw, from Red Ragtop

[All_Pro_Bills]

14 minutes ago, phypon said:

I made a similar post right at the thread merge and it got deleted.  I don't understand how you have a game plan for 58 minutes and then abandon it.  At that point, you have 4 downs to get 10 yards, that's it.  If you are bleeding the clock, you bleed the clock.  I can't see JA going "rogue" for 2 plays in a row.  It had to be by design.  The HC and OC should have been on the same page and had their QB on board as well.  Even with a TD there you are giving KC almost 2 minutes with TWO TO's who could move the ball pretty much at will to go for the go ahead score.  They should have stuck with the game plan until there were 5 seconds or less on the clock.  At that point, you either win or go to OT with a chip shot FG.  It's mind boggling and agonizing.  Why did McD change the philosophy at the end of the drive?  It makes no sense.  And, make no mistake about it, that is 100% on him.  !00%!! 

In a nutshell, out of the 2 minute warning the play calls needed to be continuing the possession strategy of the 58 minutes to that point.  Score points and not give the ball back to the Chiefs with sufficient time left on the clock which could allow them to win the game in regulation.  As with past gaffes there's an unexplained disconnect that we'll be left to speculate about once again.  But yeah, ultimately it falls on the guy in charge.  

Edited January 25 by All_Pro_Bills

[strive_for_five_guy]

11 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

On my bucket list is to go one whole day of my life where I only speak or post on social media lyrics from songs.

 

Here's an example:

 

Well you do what you do and you pay for your sins,
And there's no such thing as what might have been,
That's a waste of time, Drive you out of your mind.

 

- Tim McGraw, from Red Ragtop

We are all just prisoners here, of our own device.

[T master]

On 1/22/2024 at 10:15 AM, warrior9 said:

We don’t have a “long long time” with Josh Allen in his prime. If you’re saying you’re ok with waiting to win (when we have the talent right now to do it) because Andy Reid had failures, you are absolutely insane. 

 

No one has a long long time in the NFL but we have a good amount of time with Josh being what 27 ? How long did it take Elway to win a championship & he retired when he was 38 so there's 11 years if Josh stays healthy .

 

Favre was 41 some say he stayed to long but he was Farve till the end you could never count the guy out . So it's not like Josh only has 3 more years, sure i would like just the same as all the Bills fans to win a SB but i'm not willing to continually start all over with the coaching thing .

 

We lived 17 years of that crap & we finally have a good team as far as Beane & McD and the Pegs are willing to give them each everything they need to win, so i'll live right where we are until they get there or just can't have winning seasons & think they will get there .

[phypon]

7 minutes ago, T master said:

 

No one has a long long time in the NFL but we have a good amount of time with Josh being what 27 ? How long did it take Elway to win a championship & he retired when he was 38 so there's 11 years if Josh stays healthy .

 

Favre was 41 some say he stayed to long but he was Farve till the end you could never count the guy out . So it's not like Josh only has 3 more years, sure i would like just the same as all the Bills fans to win a SB but i'm not willing to continually start all over with the coaching thing .

 

We lived 17 years of that crap & we finally have a good team as far as Beane & McD and the Pegs are willing to give them each everything they need to win, so i'll live right where we are until they get there or just can't have winning seasons & think they will get there .

Classic "drought brain".  But, but, but...we still have up to 11 years to keep doing the same thing until hopefully it works.  Think of how many AFCE championships we could win!  

[T master]

1 minute ago, phypon said:

Classic "drought brain".  But, but, but...we still have up to 11 years to keep doing the same thing until hopefully it works.  Think of how many AFCE championships we could win!  

 

Exactly !! At least i know with what here now we won't be Arizona, the Panthers, or Chicago which i'll take it .

 

And you can continually B**CH about it till they are gone like you and others do now ...

[Livinginthepast]

37 minutes ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

We are all just prisoners here, of our own device.

We "stab KC with our steely knives, but we just cant kill the beast"!!

[GunnerBill]

49 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

In a nutshell, out of the 2 minute warning the play calls needed to be continuing the possession strategy of the 58 minutes to that point.  Score points and not give the ball back to the Chiefs with sufficient time left on the clock which could allow them to win the game in regulation.  As with past gaffes there's an unexplained disconnect that we'll be left to speculate about once again.  But yeah, ultimately it falls on the guy in charge.  

 

I think this is a CLASSIC case of people desperate to pin things on coaching. It is the first place their brain goes "that must have been coaching" but I just think the offense didn't execute very well inside two minutes. I don't believe that McDermott and Brady said "right let's call two endzone shots." It was execution on those two plays out of the two minute warning. Once the ball is snapped the guys on the field have to play. There were first down gaining routes open in both play designs. 

[phypon]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think this is a CLASSIC case of people desperate to pin things on coaching. It is the first place their brain goes "that must have been coaching" but I just think the offense didn't execute very well inside two minutes. I don't believe that McDermott and Brady said "right let's call two endzone shots." It was execution on those two plays out of the two minute warning. Once the ball is snapped the guys on the field have to play. There were first down gaining routes open in both play designs. 

For anyone NOT seeing that this is all about coaching in this situational circumstance, it's a classic case of people NOT understanding coaching...

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, phypon said:

For anyone NOT seeing that this is all about coaching in this situational circumstance, it's a classic case of people NOT understanding coaching...

 

Incorrect.

[phypon]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Incorrect.

No, that's def correct.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, phypon said:

No, that's def correct.

 

You have no idea what you are on about. But carry on.

[phypon]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Incorrect.

You're the coach.  You've been running out the play clock.  You're at the 25 yard line.  You have a first down with 2:00 left on the clock.  What do you do to win the game?  How would you play that?  Remember, you've been burning clock all drive to keep the ball out of the opponent's hands because you don't trust your defense.  What do you do there coach?  

[GunnerBill]

Just now, phypon said:

You're the coach.  You've been running out the play clock.  You're at the 25 yard line.  You have a first down with 2:00 left on the clock.  What do you do to win the game?  How would you play that?  Remember, you've been burning clock all drive to keep the ball out of the opponent's hands because you don't trust your defense.  What do you do there coach?  

 

You call plays to get yourself another first down and run that clock. Both of the plays they called had first down options available. They called those plays. The guys didn't execute.

[warrior9]

24 minutes ago, T master said:

 

No one has a long long time in the NFL but we have a good amount of time with Josh being what 27 ? How long did it take Elway to win a championship & he retired when he was 38 so there's 11 years if Josh stays healthy .

 

Favre was 41 some say he stayed to long but he was Farve till the end you could never count the guy out . So it's not like Josh only has 3 more years, sure i would like just the same as all the Bills fans to win a SB but i'm not willing to continually start all over with the coaching thing .

 

We lived 17 years of that crap & we finally have a good team as far as Beane & McD and the Pegs are willing to give them each everything they need to win, so i'll live right where we are until they get there or just can't have winning seasons & think they will get there .

I understand what you're saying but do you really want to be a Rodgers and McCarthy situation? 1 SB in 13 years with Aaron Rodgers is REPULSIVE. 

 

I was saying that using the fact that Andy Reid took a while to get there so it's "OK" that we do is absolutely a loser mentality and should not be acceptable. 

[phypon]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You call plays to get yourself another first down and run that clock. Both of the plays they called had first down options available. They called those plays. The guys didn't execute.

Oh, c'mon.  You can do better than that?  Are you serious?  That's how you coach that?  And, you would have lost just like McD did.  What a piss poor answer.

 

And you're blaming the players on top of it.  Ridiculous!!!

Edited January 25 by phypon

[Gregg]

1 minute ago, phypon said:

You're the coach.  You've been running out the play clock.  You're at the 25 yard line.  You have a first down with 2:00 left on the clock.  What do you do to win the game?  How would you play that?  Remember, you've been burning clock all drive to keep the ball out of the opponent's hands because you don't trust your defense.  What do you do there coach?  

 

Run Cook, run Allen. Short passes. Milk the clock. Worst case scenario if the Bills don't win it there is you give Bass a shorter FG attempt to tie it with very little time on the clock for the Chiefs to do anything. Take your chances in OT.

[BananaB]

9 minutes ago, phypon said:

You're the coach.  You've been running out the play clock.  You're at the 25 yard line.  You have a first down with 2:00 left on the clock.  What do you do to win the game?  How would you play that?  Remember, you've been burning clock all drive to keep the ball out of the opponent's hands because you don't trust your defense.  What do you do there coach?  

Everyone keeps saying they were running out the clock but that’s  how they moved the ball on every drive. It wasn’t just this drive. They never just stopped pushing the ball downfield they couldn’t do it all game. When they did have opportunities the WRs never made the catch. The 2nd and 9 was another one of those opportunities, this time targeting our most reliable WR. The WR was open, the olay was there and the protection never held up. 
 

The only time they moved fast all game was the last few minutes before half when they when no huddle. 

Edited January 25 by BananaB

[GunnerBill]

2 minutes ago, phypon said:

Oh, c'mon.  You can do better than that?  Are you serious?  That's how you coach that?  And, you would have lost just like McD did.  What a piss poor answer.

 

And you're blaming the players on top of it.  Ridiculous!!!

 

So what should he have done?

 

Yes I am blaming the players on those two plays. They didn't execute. The plays were there.

[All_Pro_Bills]

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

I think this is a CLASSIC case of people desperate to pin things on coaching. It is the first place their brain goes "that must have been coaching" but I just think the offense didn't execute very well inside two minutes. I don't believe that McDermott and Brady said "right let's call two endzone shots." It was execution on those two plays out of the two minute warning. Once the ball is snapped the guys on the field have to play. There were first down gaining routes open in both play designs. 

What's mind blowing is they did a superlative job of executing the possession strategy up to that point in time.  

 

So either:

1. Allen went off script, ignored those shorter underneath throws to move the chains, and took those deeper throws.  Which means he ignored the instructions of the HC/OC. 
2. Or Allen was given no specific instructions, and they never discussed anything specific about remaining focused and committed to the ball control time of possession game and keeping the defense off the field as long as possible.

 

Both are concerning possibilities. 

[phypon]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

So what should he have done?

 

Yes I am blaming the players on those two plays. They didn't execute. The plays were there.

If I'm the coach I tell them to play for the first down.  At all costs.  I'm more concerned with the clock.  I tell my QB to not go for the kill shot in the endzone because there is too much time on the clock and I don't have faith in my defense and the Chiefs can score very quickly.  I have to play the chess game there.  If I can't get a first down in 4 tries with JA, we deserve to lose, but that's how I'm playing it.  I already know what can happen in 13 seconds, and again the following year with only 12 seconds, so I'm looking to make a score with 5 seconds or less left on the clock.  I want to win, but I would settle for the tie, but I also want to get more yards for my shaky kicker.  I would go for a first down there on 4th down if I haven't picked it up.  I only kick the field goal if we are at the 15 yard line on 4th down with low time on the clock.