"Late" hit on Allen's slide.

[Big Turk]

57 minutes ago, wagon127 said:

The 4th quarter unnecessary roughness penalty on the Steeelers.

 

Look, im glad the bills won, and any penalty the Bills get in their favor, I feel is great, after 17 years of us seeing other teams benefit from bad calls. But the NFL needs to really evaluate whats considered a late hit on a QB slide. I really dont think he was hit late on that. I think as Allen starts to slide, the defender has pretty much already left his feet. Allen is still sliding as he gets hit, showing how "not late" it was. 

 

What do you guys think? Not just thinking about it from the Bills point of view, but football in general. 

 

No. You don't get it, just like so many others don't seem to get it.

 

The rule is that if a defender is in the process of making a tackle and THEN the QB slides, it isn't a penalty, aka, a late slide. That is what happens the majority of the times when no flag is thrown. 

 

How can a defender be expected to stop mid tackle? He can't, which is why that's not a penalty.

 

If you watch the replay, and I have many times, Allen slides, THEN the defender goes in to tackle him.

 

That's a penalty 100/100 times. He didn't start his motion to tackle until Allen has already started sliding. It was a dumb play and one that's getting called almost every time. There was no reason to make that tackle attempt once Allen had started sliding.

Edited January 16 by Big Turk

[BADOLBILZ]

12 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

Wasn’t that play pretty identical to roughing penalty on Bills in Dallas game when Prescott slid?  Tough on the defense but it is what it is.

 

 

It's not even tough on the defense..........there really aren't many instances when a player can't at least attempt to pull up and not drop their helmet/shoulder at full force into a player who has slid down.

 

When the rules were changed back in 2010 the hitting was absolutely vicious and gratuitous.........and defenders claimed they could never clean it up and still play defense.    

 

The Seahawks would subsequently field one of the best tackling and point-preventing defense's the NFL has ever seen.    

 

It's always possible to clean up the attempts to injure.

 

And that hit on Allen was just a standard, run-of-the-mill attempt to injure the opposing player with a hit that far exceeded the needs of the play.   

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Meatloaf63 said:

except it doesn’t matter where you hit a sliding qb. They will call any contact especially from the waste up.

Yep it was 100% a penalty, unless you're Justin Fields.

 

The guy didn't try and avoid it at all until after he'd already hit Josh it's a penalty simple as that.

 

What I thought was funny was that Josh basically baited him into all game by running through the Steelers all game.

[Big Turk]

1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

Yep it was 100% a penalty, unless you're Justin Fields.

 

The guy didn't try and avoid it at all until after he'd already hit Josh it's a penalty simple as that.

 

What I thought was funny was that Josh basically baited him into all game by running through the Steelers all game.

 

Most of the Justin Fields clips I've seen AREN'T penalties because the defender is in the process of making a tackle BEFORE Fields slides. That's on him for not sliding earlier before he gets too close and the defender starts his tackle.

 

That is an important distinction to make. If you slide after the defender starts his tackling motion, it's not a penalty. 

 

Allen slid first, then the defender started his tackling motion. That's 100/100 times a penalty 

Edited January 16 by Big Turk

[Dafan]

What makes it late hit for me is that the defender continued to drop his shoulder.  Yes he was already committed lunging at Allen, but he could have attempted to lessen the impact of the hit.

[Augie]

11 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

except it doesn’t matter where you hit a sliding qb. They will call any contact especially from the waste up.

 

Hitting the helmet off the turf is probably as dangerous as helmet to helmet.  You just know that will get called, although I thought it was a bit slow to come. 

[Freddie's Dead]

1 hour ago, Low Positive said:

What about the RtP on Ed Oliver where Mason Rudolph didn't even fall down?

 

It was a head butt.  I thought same as you in real time, but on replay, it was helmet to helmet.

[CaptnCoke11]

1 hour ago, wagon127 said:

The 4th quarter unnecessary roughness penalty on the Steeelers.

 

Look, im glad the bills won, and any penalty the Bills get in their favor, I feel is great, after 17 years of us seeing other teams benefit from bad calls. But the NFL needs to really evaluate whats considered a late hit on a QB slide. I really dont think he was hit late on that. I think as Allen starts to slide, the defender has pretty much already left his feet. Allen is still sliding as he gets hit, showing how "not late" it was. 

 

What do you guys think? Not just thinking about it from the Bills point of view, but football in general. 

You could tell the defender tried to avoid a huge hit.  I think in those instances the flag shouldn’t be thrown unless it’s egregiously late.  Now helmet to helmet on that kind of play then yes it should be a penalty.  

[GunnerBill]

Clear flag.

[CoudyBills]

1 hour ago, KDIGGZ said:

Josh made it look worse than it was. At some point the refs will know that he flops like LeBron and to be on the lookout for that so then those calls won't go our way. I think he could have saved it on that play

He is on the same level as LeBron James, so he is going to get the calls.  

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Considering he basically began the sliding process at the LOS, then fully initiated after about a yard, and slid at like 3 yards... it was late.  How hard you hit someone late doesn't change hitting someone who has given themself up.  

[KDIGGZ]

11 minutes ago, CoudyBills said:

He is on the same level as LeBron James, so he is going to get the calls.  

I definitely don't agree with that. LeBron is probably the 2nd best player ever or top 5 at worst. Josh is nobody... yet 

[dje85]

1 hour ago, Patrick Fitzryan said:

I really wish he'd cut that out. It's not only incredibly lame, it's completely beneath him given how tough a player he is.

Personally, I don't care about the flops / acting. It means he will do anything to win. I don't care if he does full on Shakespearean drama on the field as long as we are winning and Josh is being Josh.

[CoudyBills]

12 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

I definitely don't agree with that. LeBron is probably the 2nd best player ever or top 5 at worst. Josh is nobody... yet 

A superstar is a superstar

[Big Turk]

51 minutes ago, Dafan said:

What makes it late hit for me is that the defender continued to drop his shoulder.  Yes he was already committed lunging at Allen, but he could have attempted to lessen the impact of the hit.

 

He wasn't. He didn't start his tackle motion until after Allen slid.

[Beck Water]

You can take off the quotes on "late"

[hondo in seattle]

I do worry about wimpifying football. 

 

But under the current rules, I thought it was clearly a penalty.  

[HardyBoy]

22 minutes ago, KDIGGZ said:

I definitely don't agree with that. LeBron is probably the 2nd best player ever or top 5 at worst. Josh is nobody... yet 

 

LeBron in year six of his career then? 

[WideNine]

I think the defender had enough time to pull up when Allen shifted to a feet-first slide.

 

Instead he loads up the forearm goes towards to upper shoulders and head and he immediately throws up his hands in mock innocence once he follows through.

 

I am sure Allen was not hurt, but defenders know the rules. Those back 7 defenders hate mobile QBs and want to get that hit on them to send that "stay behind the LOS" message.

 

Oliver love tapped Rudolph with a late shove that Rudolph embellished enough to get whiplash and he got a roughing the passer penalty. It is just part of the game and defensive players have to be smart about hitting QBs.

 

WIth Allen they just have to wait a bit, he is sure to plow into their defense head first a few times during the course of a game.

 

 

[msw2112]

When I saw it in real time, I thought it was a penalty for sure.  When I saw it on replay, it did not look like a foul.  I used to be of the mindset that I didn't want my team to benefit from any bad calls - I wanted to win without any questions or doubts.  As I get older, I realize how many bad calls have gone against the Bills, and that people may or may not remember a bad call, but they will always remember who came out on top.  So, if this was a bad call, I'll definitely take it!

 

Also, as to officiating yesterday, I think the first fumble that was reversed in the Bills' favor was an incomplete pass, so a bad call in the the Bills' favor, but the second one that was not reversed was a terrible call.  The player fumbled in bounds, it was not touched by anyone who was out of bounds before touching it, and it was recovered in bounds.  I don't see any rationale for that not being ruled a fumble.  I think it was a makeup call for the questionable one earlier.  I hosted a bunch of people for the game including some noisy children (mine), so I couldn't hear the explanation given by the referee or the follow-up commentary.