Using timeouts

[BillsFooteball]

I know McDermott is not alone on this. I need to know why when say bills are leading, on defense, have timeouts to use l, end of game/half , he always use timeouts?! Like he’s going to get penalized if he doesn’t use them. I don't get the purpose. I’m sure someone here can advise but I assume it’s to see how the offense lines up?!

 

They keep stats for everything so I need to know % chance something good comes out of it. I actually have a running joke at home that the % chance immediately after he called timeout, the very next play is a TD or very least first down must be 90% lol. I can’t be alone feeling this way. Happened again yesterday end of half, I can think of at least 5 times this year alone that happened. Hell even if it’s a miracle type play. Chiefs game, where toney lined up Offside but would have been TD, after a timeout. To me I seen them get burned way to much in this. All it does is allows offense to get set, get together come up with exact play they want and discuss.

 

Petty? Maybe. Has to my least favorite thing about him. Do others have issues with this game in and game out?

[Buffalo716]

12 minutes ago, BillsFooteball said:

I know McDermott is not alone on this. I need to know why when say bills are leading, on defense, have timeouts to use l, end of game/half , he always use timeouts?! Like he’s going to get penalized if he doesn’t use them. I don't get the purpose. I’m sure someone here can advise but I assume it’s to see how the offense lines up?!

 

They keep stats for everything so I need to know % chance something good comes out of it. I actually have a running joke at home that the % chance immediately after he called timeout, the very next play is a TD or very least first down must be 90% lol. I can’t be alone feeling this way. Happened again yesterday end of half, I can think of at least 5 times this year alone that happened. Hell even if it’s a miracle type play. Chiefs game, where toney lined up Offside but would have been TD, after a timeout. To me I seen them get burned way to much in this. All it does is allows offense to get set, get together come up with exact play they want and discuss.

 

Petty? Maybe. Has to my least favorite thing about him. Do others have issues with this game in and game out?

A lot of coaches call timeouts before plays in big situations just like Sean

 

It happened in multiple playoff games this weekend... It's not just Sean thing

Edited January 16 by Buffalo716

[Bob Jones]

I agree that McD is one of the worst coaches in the league when it comes to smart timeout use and efficient clock management. Pretty sure he's demonstrated that frequently over the last 6 years, and it has been pointed out numerous times in this forum.

 

One reason I can come up with is if the defense is exhausted, then a TO gives them a little time to rest up. Another reason may be he wants to see what formation the offense is in, so that he may properly set the defense, although after the TO, the opposing team may simply go to a new/different formation.

[eball]

This year in particular, the defense has had multiple new players in the games at crucial times because of all of the injuries.  For that reason alone, I give McD a bit of a break calling defensive timeouts (although it bugs me in general).

 

[djp14150]

30 minutes ago, BillsFooteball said:

I know McDermott is not alone on this. I need to know why when say bills are leading, on defense, have timeouts to use l, end of game/half , he always use timeouts?! Like he’s going to get penalized if he doesn’t use them. I don't get the purpose. I’m sure someone here can advise but I assume it’s to see how the offense lines up?!

 

They keep stats for everything so I need to know % chance something good comes out of it. I actually have a running joke at home that the % chance immediately after he called timeout, the very next play is a TD or very least first down must be 90% lol. I can’t be alone feeling this way. Happened again yesterday end of half, I can think of at least 5 times this year alone that happened. Hell even if it’s a miracle type play. Chiefs game, where toney lined up Offside but would have been TD, after a timeout. To me I seen them get burned way to much in this. All it does is allows offense to get set, get together come up with exact play they want and discuss.

 

Petty? Maybe. Has to my least favorite thing about him. Do others have issues with this game in and game out?

 

Time outs common around key plays late in the game like on 4th downs is common.

[BillsFooteball]

22 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

A lot of coaches call timeouts before plays in big situations just like Sean

 

It happened in multiple playoff games this weekend... It's not just Sean thing

Yes this is not an anti-McDermott thread. Genuinely curious on reasoning and success rate specifically to bills. First sentence noted I know McDermott is not alone on this 

[Buffalo716]

3 minutes ago, BillsFooteball said:

Yes this is not an anti-McDermott thread. Genuinely curious on reasoning and success rate specifically to bills. First sentence noted I know McDermott is not alone on this 

The reason is because on big plays....

 

You want your best play call ... 

 

So when Sean or any coach lines up... And they get to see the offensive personnel and formation

 

He gets a look at what you want to do... So now the offensive coach is put in a tougher position

 

Do I run the same thing from the same look that he's seen and maybe knows what's coming?... Even if it's my best play, he knows my look

 

So the defensive coach has a look at what you want to execute... So the offense has to either run the same thing which you've seen pre snap ... Or move off of their best play call for the situation 

 

 

[SoCal Deek]

It’s the same thing you see in basketball. The coach wants to see how the offense is lined up prior to inbounding the ball. There’s no telling if it works to your benefit. 

[DrDawkinstein]

Time Outs should be used only as a tool of the Offense to get more time to score more points.

 

Defensive Time Outs are for the weak and ill-prepared (unless it's to stop the clock to get the ball back for your Offense).

[ALLinALLEN]

On a side Q, why did Tomlin call the timeout with 2 seconds left before half when we were kneeling down the clock? Seemed weird to me and almost a bit of an "f you"...

[SoCal Deek]

19 minutes ago, ALLinALLEN said:

On a side Q, why did Tomlin call the timeout with 2 seconds left before half when we were kneeling down the clock? Seemed weird to me and almost a bit of an "f you"...

Close. It was an f$ck up. 

[2003Contenders]

I think it serves also to provide reminders in late-game key situations, especially when you do have back-ups in there. Things like:

 

"There are only 10 seconds left and they have no timeouts. Make a tackle in the field of play and the game is over!"

 

[Big Turk]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

A lot of coaches call timeouts before plays in big situations just like Sean

 

It happened in multiple playoff games this weekend... It's not just Sean thing

 

Yup, it's smart because it allows you to see what they are trying to do and then adjust to it. 

[FireChans]

37 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

Time Outs should be used only as a tool of the Offense to get more time to score more points.

 

Defensive Time Outs are for the weak and ill-prepared (unless it's to stop the clock to get the ball back for your Offense).

McD has had Dorian Williams and AJ Klein getting defensive alignments set. 
 

Didn’t that big rushing TD by the Jets week one happen because Bernard screwed up alignment?

 

I feel like some major defensive screwups are okay to call TOs for.

[DrDawkinstein]

14 minutes ago, FireChans said:

McD has had Dorian Williams and AJ Klein getting defensive alignments set. 
 

Didn’t that big rushing TD by the Jets week one happen because Bernard screwed up alignment?

 

I feel like some major defensive screwups are okay to call TOs for.

 

I feel I covered those examples in my "ill prepared" qualifier.   I'll give Dorian and AJ a break because they've done well getting thrown into the fire.

[Billsatlastin2018]

To me, if the opposing team, needs to rush to beat the clock for a critical game tying/ winning FG, you NEVER, EVER should give them more time to prepare!

 

Like McClapper did in Philly, especially on a rainy, windy day!

 

Make them RUSH! 
 

And if you foolishly do… can you please count to 11 during it… like in…

 

 

https://youtu.be/oAQtMijs73w?si=6Hksw10tvrSIMeAK

 

 

 

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, BillsFooteball said:

I know McDermott is not alone on this. I need to know why when say bills are leading, on defense, have timeouts to use l, end of game/half , he always use timeouts?! Like he’s going to get penalized if he doesn’t use them. I don't get the purpose. I’m sure someone here can advise but I assume it’s to see how the offense lines up?!

 

They keep stats for everything so I need to know % chance something good comes out of it. I actually have a running joke at home that the % chance immediately after he called timeout, the very next play is a TD or very least first down must be 90% lol. I can’t be alone feeling this way. Happened again yesterday end of half, I can think of at least 5 times this year alone that happened. Hell even if it’s a miracle type play. Chiefs game, where toney lined up Offside but would have been TD, after a timeout. To me I seen them get burned way to much in this. All it does is allows offense to get set, get together come up with exact play they want and discuss.

 

Petty? Maybe. Has to my least favorite thing about him. Do others have issues with this game in and game out?

He called timeouts at the end of the half because he wanted to get the ball back for his offense.  This was obvious.

 

As far as his other uses, in the Dunne articles the said that it’s a called a “kodak.”   It gives the defense a look at the personnel and the potential the play the offense is running and an opportunity to match it best on defense.  This is common among defenses, though sometimes I feel it gives the offense a chance to rest

[FireChans]

17 minutes ago, DrDawkinstein said:

 

I feel I covered those examples in my "ill prepared" qualifier.   I'll give Dorian and AJ a break because they've done well getting thrown into the fire.

Kinda comes with the territory with lots of guys making first career starts imo

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said:

A lot of coaches call timeouts before plays in big situations just like Sean

 

It happened in multiple playoff games this weekend... It's not just Sean thing

 

Funny you should say that...

 

In yesterdays Athletic there was a write on this in the weekly "Pick Six" column  It shows that coaches call around 20% of their TO's with more than 5 minutes left in game.  McD made the list, but many other what are considered good to very good coaches also made the list. 

 

[ALLinALLEN]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

Close. It was an f$ck up. 

what? he accidentally called a TO? 

[msw2112]

50 minutes ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:

To me, if the opposing team, needs to rush to beat the clock for a critical game tying/ winning FG, you NEVER, EVER should give them more time to prepare!

 

Like McClapper did in Philly, especially on a rainy, windy day!

 

Make them RUSH! 
 

And if you foolishly do… can you please count to 11 during it… like in…

 

 

https://youtu.be/oAQtMijs73w?si=6Hksw10tvrSIMeAK

 

 

 

 

I agree with this.  I fully understand why McD calls those timeouts and I have also noticed other teams doing the same thing recently, but I believe that forcing the other team to scramble and rush to get the play off benefits the defense more than calling timeout to settle everyone down.  It gives the offense a chance to catch their breath, get their best play called, get their guys aligned, etc.  Obviously, if you have 12 men on the field or otherwise see a significant flaw in the defense, you call the timeout, but I think McD does it in those situations as a matter of course and I don't agree with it.  

 

I say all of this in the context that I'm not a McD hater.  He's done a hell of a good job over multiple seasons.  He's not perfect - no coach is - but hopefully the Bills will earn/get some breaks this year and get to the promised land.  I'd be curious as to how many people on this board wished we had a coach "like Nick Siriani" over the last couple of years ago, and how they feel about that now.  I admit that I had some thoughts that it might be great to have a young, brash, aggressive coach versus the more traditional/conservative style of coach in McDermott, but after the last 7 weeks, I'm good with what we have.  Ask me again in a month.

[Billsatlastin2018]

56 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

 

 

I say all of this in the context that I'm not a McD hater.  He's done a hell of a good job over multiple seasons.  He's not perfect - no coach is - but hopefully the Bills will earn/get some breaks this year and get to the promised land.  I'd be curious as to how many people on this board wished we had a coach "like Nick Siriani" over the last couple of years ago, and how they feel about that now.  I admit that I had some thoughts that it might be great to have a young, brash, aggressive coach versus the more traditional/conservative style of coach in McDermott, but after the last 7 weeks, I'm good with what we have.  Ask me again in a month.

FULL DISCLOSURE:

 

I don’t hate McD, but I could never forgive him for the HOF of Infamy 13 seconds… (where again he took TOs and never used them properly… like carving in stone, what to do on the KO- THE most critical of the 4 plays!!) 

 

Only a Lombardi can resolve that for me. I recognize that I could be in the minority. I am among my friends.

 

That being said, only a curmudgeon would not give the thumbs up to his performance holding the D up with chewing gum and duct tape! It has been magnificent. I mean, how goofy is it to have grabbed Klein before he gets the family on the Winnebago to Key West?

Insane!

 

There are 3-4 great coaches available now, including the one from U Michigan. I’d be more than happy with all of them.

 

However, having FUBARed the Season and then going on a Playoff run of 6 games, with 3 to go, NO mistakes allowed, has been impressive!

 

Let’s GO 🦬!

 

 

[Ethan in Cleveland]

He called the TOs in the first half to leave clock for the offense to try and score after Pittsburgh scored. And it was working until Josh took the sack.

 

Lots of coaches take TOs for important plays. Don't really care about that.

 

Biggest coaches blunder yesterday was 2nd and 7

[QLBillsFan]

6 hours ago, eball said:

This year in particular, the defense has had multiple new players in the games at crucial times because of all of the injuries.  For that reason alone, I give McD a bit of a break calling defensive timeouts (although it bugs me in general).

 

I think on the whole he’s used them intelligently. A big stop on D is as important as O. I’d be interested to see the data on his D TOs vs the next play success. My gut says it’s been decent. Also stopping the clock for the O to have time comes into play. 

[BringBackFergy]

5 hours ago, 2003Contenders said:

I think it serves also to provide reminders in late-game key situations, especially when you do have back-ups in there. Things like:

 

"There are only 10 seconds left and they have no timeouts. Make a tackle in the field of play and the game is over!"

 

This x100

When these young 2nd stringers on defense are all amped up with 60 seconds left and you have the lead, you call them in and remind them “No pass interference…take your time getting off the pile, keep the play inbounds, etc”

[Thrivefourfive]

7 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

I agree that McD is one of the worst coaches in the league when it comes to smart timeout use and efficient clock management. Pretty sure he's demonstrated that frequently over the last 6 years, and it has been pointed out numerous times in this forum.

 

One reason I can come up with is if the defense is exhausted, then a TO gives them a little time to rest up. Another reason may be he wants to see what formation the offense is in, so that he may properly set the defense, although after the TO, the opposing team may simply go to a new/different formation.

His timeouts on seemingly every 3&7 with 4:45 left in the fourth, with the Bills up by one score really bothers me. The timeouts on that -draw them off sides- garage pisses me off to no end. 
 

I disagree because it seems McDermott calls these timeouts on defense as if the game is over if the Bills get a stop. Situationally, the opponent usually has 3 timeouts of their own, to get the ball back with plenty of time to take the lead, leaving the Bills with time but fewer timeouts. And I hate that.

 

Strategically, it bothers me because why isn’t his defense ready to initiate contact..? I want the Bills to be the team to CAUSE THE OTHER GUYS TO CALL A TIMEOUT. Don’t want to dwell on this,, it just proves to me that McDermott is conservative and coaches scared.

 

Here’s the incredible kicker (sorry, that’s a bad word right now), there’s confusion on defense after the timeout!!! Dorian Williams comes running off the field last second and Dane Jackson is doing jumping jacks because he’s not sure of something. This was in the most important play of the game to that point! Dane luckily didn’t get called for raping on Pickens like he should have. Like, what in the hell are the Bills doing sometimes??? 
 

Let’s never forget: McTimeout calls a McTimeout to ice kickers and then his team has 12 men on the field. Can’t stand ya. 

[Don Otreply]

20 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

I agree that McD is one of the worst coaches in the league when it comes to smart timeout use and efficient clock management. Pretty sure he's demonstrated that frequently over the last 6 years, and it has been pointed out numerous times in this forum.

 

One reason I can come up with is if the defense is exhausted, then a TO gives them a little time to rest up. Another reason may be he wants to see what formation the offense is in, so that he may properly set the defense, although after the TO, the opposing team may simply go to a new/different formation.

You do realize fans and especially fans on team forums are wrong the majority of the time, right? We just love to talk trash on any topic like we know what the Fuh k we’re talking about, so I wouldn’t, except on a rare occasion, take some sports forum opinion as gospel as the saying goes, 

[Bob Jones]

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

You do realize fans and especially fans on team forums are wrong the majority of the time, right? We just love to talk trash on any topic like we know what the Fuh k we’re talking about, so I wouldn’t, except on a rare occasion, take some sports forum opinion as gospel as the saying goes, 

No, I don’t realize that. There are LOTS of fans here on TSW who have been watching & studying the Bills, and the NFL, for DECADES. My opinion is that MANY of those folks have just as much knowledge about the NFL AS ANYBODY, and certainly more knowledge that 90% of the talking head “experts” on radio/tv shows.

 

It ain’t brain surgery out there on the field, and neither are front office moves, as proven EVERY YEAR by the NFL draft, where nothing is a “sure thing”, and early round picks often turn out to be busts….and late round picks sometimes turn out to be gold.

 

I don’t think they’re as smart as you seem to think they are.

[Matt_In_NH]

23 hours ago, BillsFooteball said:

I know McDermott is not alone on this. I need to know why when say bills are leading, on defense, have timeouts to use l, end of game/half , he always use timeouts?! Like he’s going to get penalized if he doesn’t use them. I don't get the purpose. I’m sure someone here can advise but I assume it’s to see how the offense lines up?!

 

They keep stats for everything so I need to know % chance something good comes out of it. I actually have a running joke at home that the % chance immediately after he called timeout, the very next play is a TD or very least first down must be 90% lol. I can’t be alone feeling this way. Happened again yesterday end of half, I can think of at least 5 times this year alone that happened. Hell even if it’s a miracle type play. Chiefs game, where toney lined up Offside but would have been TD, after a timeout. To me I seen them get burned way to much in this. All it does is allows offense to get set, get together come up with exact play they want and discuss.

 

Petty? Maybe. Has to my least favorite thing about him. Do others have issues with this game in and game out?

Timeouts are valuable.  Number one you try to save them for end of half or game.  When it becomes clear you don't need them for end of game you can step down to other times they provide some value.  So on a key 3rd down when you are on defense, you get the offensive formation/look, call timeout in the hopes they go from what they think is their best call to something else.   The criticism of this stuff is a little over the top.   Did anyone see how Sean McVeigh used timeouts vs Detroit?

[Don Otreply]

28 minutes ago, Bob Jones said:

No, I don’t realize that. There are LOTS of fans here on TSW who have been watching & studying the Bills, and the NFL, for DECADES. My opinion is that MANY of those folks have just as much knowledge about the NFL AS ANYBODY, and certainly more knowledge that 90% of the talking head “experts” on radio/tv shows.

 

It ain’t brain surgery out there on the field, and neither are front office moves, as proven EVERY YEAR by the NFL draft, where nothing is a “sure thing”, and early round picks often turn out to be busts….and late round picks sometimes turn out to be gold.

 

I don’t think they’re as smart as you seem to think they are.

You contradict yourself in your post, By your own admission those who actually study and do the work for a living for decades and more, are no better at it than the fans who pay attention to this part time…, so my point stands…, you should read what you type before you post it, Nuthin but luv 😁👍

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Bob Jones]

6 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

You do realize fans and especially fans on team forums are wrong the majority of the time, right? We just love to talk trash on any topic like we know what the Fuh k we’re talking about, so I wouldn’t, except on a rare occasion, take some sports forum opinion as gospel as the saying goes, 

 

2 hours ago, Don Otreply said:

You contradict yourself in your post, By your own admission those who actually study and do the work for a living for decades and more, are no better at it than the fans who pay attention to this part time…, so my point stands…, you should read what you type before you post it, Nuthin but luv 😁👍

 

GO BILLS!!!

I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood you.

 

I took away from your first post above that fans aren't very knowledgeable at all, because in your own words, "they are wrong a majority of the time." My assumption was that you slyly were putting forth the often seen narrative in here that goes like this: "Those guys (NFL coaches and front offices) are professionals, they know what they're doing! You're just an armchair QB who knows nothing."

 

My counterpoint to the above is that there are some fans who are just as knowledgeable, and maybe even moreso, than actual NFL coaches & GMs. I gave the draft as one example. Really bad trades would be another example. Poor use of personnel (by coaches) would be another example. We see the latter things all the time, and it certainly contributes to coaches & GMs getting fired.

 

In any case, Cheers! I am hoping & praying that the Bills go on a 9-game winning streak to end this season. Go Bills!

[Don Otreply]

2 hours ago, Bob Jones said:

 

I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood you.

 

I took away from your first post above that fans aren't very knowledgeable at all, because in your own words, "they are wrong a majority of the time." My assumption was that you slyly were putting forth the often seen narrative in here that goes like this: "Those guys (NFL coaches and front offices) are professionals, they know what they're doing! You're just an armchair QB who knows nothing."

 

My counterpoint to the above is that there are some fans who are just as knowledgeable, and maybe even moreso, than actual NFL coaches & GMs. I gave the draft as one example. Really bad trades would be another example. Poor use of personnel (by coaches) would be another example. We see the latter things all the time, and it certainly contributes to coaches & GMs getting fired.

 

In any case, Cheers! I am hoping & praying that the Bills go on a 9-game winning streak to end this season. Go Bills!

Damn right they will win out!!!

 

GO BILLS!!!