Tyler Dunne story on McDermott - 3 parts, 25 interviews, one damning conclusion

[FireChans]

5 minutes ago, mannc said:

Ok, fair enough.  But did the Bills have a policy regarding such gifts?  Given the amount of money the players have, if the organization was concerned about the real or perceived conflict of interest created by gifts like this, then you would expect there to be a "no gift" policy, or a limit on such gifts.  Policies like that are common in corporate America... 

do they need to have a policy?

 

Honestly, have we ever heard of other teams banding together to give their position coaches lavish gifts? 
 

I haven’t. 

[boyst]

1 hour ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Hopefully you catch the bastards!! We're thinking about a white highland mix that has the midget gene...

Too much work, too much trouble, too expensive. If you're north of the mason Dixon: black baldies, Angus are fine. If you're south: simmental, Hereford, or Charolais 

[mannc]

1 minute ago, FireChans said:

do they need to have a policy?

 

Honestly, have we ever heard of other teams banding together to give their position coaches lavish gifts? 
 

I haven’t. 

No, they don't need to have such a policy, but they should if they want to prevent that sort of thing from happening.  

[1ManRaid]

5 hours ago, beer can shower said:

 

Of course, Andy Dalton's pass ended the Bills drought.
Had that pass not been caught the Bills would not have been in the playoffs.
It's not nonsense, it's a fact.

 

 

The Bills winning the amount of games against the teams they did ended the drought.  Why is that one random play the only thing that matters in the entire season?  Why not any of the other game winning TDs from our offense or turnovers from our defense?  Why not any of the other teams that beat the Ravens that season?  They all count the same in the standings.  If any of OUR game winning scores or stops didn't happen we don't make the playoffs.  If any other team that beat the Ravens lost instead of won, we don't make the playoffs.  If one of the teams the Ravens beat instead beat the Ravens, Dalton's heroics aren't even relevant because we're already in the playoffs anyways.

 

Stop with the defeatist nonsense.

[Wayne Arnold]

18 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

This isn’t exactly corporate America either. That gift was the equivalent of a normal supervisor getting a Christmas gift.  

 

Not to mention all of his employees make waaaaaaay more than he does.

 

The corporate/office analogy is not a good one. Sorry @HardyBoy

[FireChans]

1 minute ago, mannc said:

No, they don't need to have such a policy, but they should if they want to prevent that sort of thing from happening.  

I guess what I’m saying is its probably a pretty unique scenario. It would be hard to anticipate. 
 

Because we’ve never seen it before 

[hondo in seattle]

There's an old story that goes something like this...

 

A king brought a bunch of blind men together and had his servants guide them to an elephant.  The king asked them to describe what they found.

 

One touched a leg and groped it for a moment.  "It's like a tree trunk."

 

Another blind man grabbed hold of the trunk.  "No, you idiot.  It's like a thick snake."

 

A third blind man felt the ear.  "What are you two liars talking about?  It seems to be some kind of fan."

 

The fourth blind man fondled the tail.  "You are all morons.  It's a rope."

 

The fifth blind man touched the tusk and said it was hard and smooth like a spear.   

 

Soon the blind men were wildly fighting over their disagreement.  

 

 

Dunne may have some piece of the truth.  But it's not the whole truth and there are other perspectives.   

 

And we're all blind men blindly throwing punches at each other.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wayne Arnold]

10 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Michael Jackson is the answer you give if you don't have an answer. Frank Sinatra is the answer you give if you want to be trendy and cool in your 20's.  

 

I'm skeptical that Sean McDermott has ever listened to music in his life. We know he's never laughed.

[Simon]

13 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Frank Sinatra is the answer you give if you want to be trendy and cool in your 20's.  

 

Actually a couple/few years ago he supposedly switched his pregame headphone music to Sinatra to help calm himself before games.

[HardyBoy]

9 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Not to mention all of his employees make waaaaaaay more than he does.

 

The corporate/office analogy is not a good one. Sorry @HardyBoy

 

Um, rich people bribe super low level beaurocrats all the time, I'm confused how it matters how much money someone is making...they are giving a decision maker who is a gatekeeper to their future earnings not just a gift of value, but of significant value. 

 

It can be a perceived quid pro quo and even if it's not the case, if it's perceived that is a conflict of interest and is an issue, potentially an issue with significant monetary consequences 

[Beck Water]

22 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Exactly, I would be really upset as a CEO if that happened.

 

It doesn't make what the source said untrue, but it makes it very obvious the source does not understand the big picture or what might be going through McDs head when he's acting the way he's acting...the source said it was because McD was jealous, when it likely has nothing at all to do with that.

 

It raises a lot of questions on if the sources have the proper big picture view to understand the motivations behind McDs behavior and maybe them not understanding the true reason for it...it's concerning in terms of trusting the article

 

Thank you for pointing this out.

 

I acknowledge I haven't read the entire article and I'm not gonna subscribe to do so. 

 

But from what's been quoted and brought out, there's a weird gamish:

1) stuff that factually happened (9/11 as teamwork example, McDermott upset about Hall having a WR get together at Hall's house during covid and WR having such friendly feelings towards Hall that they gifted him a truck)

2) the interpretation the sources placed on things that happened (McDermott dunked on Hall for getting a truck because according to the source, McDermott is personally incapable of having close relationships with players and jealous of coaches who can)

 

I don't think Dunne is making stuff up, and I think the stuff that he says happened, probably happened in some form.

 

I think the interpretations placed on it, may or may not have veracity or be heavily skewed by the choice of sources.

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Beck Water

[major]

I need a cliff notes version of this thread 😂

[Simon]

15 minutes ago, boyst said:

Too much work, too much trouble, too expensive. If you're north of the mason Dixon: black baldies, Angus are fine. If you're south: simmental, Hereford, or Charolais 

 

You'd probably like some Corb Lund.

 

 

[BillsSbSoon]

Does anyone think he still would survive this if this story had come out before the stadium deal was signed? Absolutely not. 

[Mikie2times]

5 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Actually a couple/few years ago he supposedly switched his pregame headphone music to Sinatra to help calm himself before games.

Ya, I remember hearing that a couple years ago. I also listened to Frank in my 20's. I wasn't really speaking about Josh originally. If we wanted an example of a guy that can easily relate to others he's it. It's who he is. He probably does it so well he has a difficult time being the type of alpha leader many want. I feel as if McD is the opposite. He's doesn't relate to people the best and he's probably a bit of a prick. Beliichick is basically the same type of person in my view. So that alone doesn't mean everything.   

[Wayne Arnold]

6 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Um, rich people bribe super low level beaurocrats all the time, I'm confused how it matters how much money someone is making...they are giving a decision maker who is a gatekeeper to their future earnings not just a gift of value, but of significant value. 

 

It can be a perceived quid pro quo and even if it's not the case, if it's perceived that is a conflict of interest and is an issue, potentially an issue with significant monetary consequences 

 

Oh give me a break. The entire WR unit contributed to the gift. Save your lawyer speak for things that actually matter.

[BillsPride12]

The drama of this season has felt like PEAK Bills drought era level...I didn't have the Bills winning the Super Bowl this year but Yikes I didn't see things unraveling like this 

[HardyBoy]

5 minutes ago, Wayne Arnold said:

 

Oh give me a break. The entire WR unit contributed to the gift. Save your lawyer speak for things that actually matter.

 

Huh? 

[Mikie2times]

10 minutes ago, major said:

I need a cliff notes version of this thread 😂

Terrorist's wouldn't cut corners 

[Wayne Arnold]

 

[GoBills808]

13 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Um, rich people bribe super low level beaurocrats all the time, I'm confused how it matters how much money someone is making...they are giving a decision maker who is a gatekeeper to their future earnings not just a gift of value, but of significant value. 

 

It can be a perceived quid pro quo and even if it's not the case, if it's perceived that is a conflict of interest and is an issue, potentially an issue with significant monetary consequences 

Trying to say that it's reasonable to assume the truck was a bribe from the wideouts to their position coach in order to absolve McDermott is really wild

[Simon]

12 minutes ago, Mikie2times said:

Terrorist's wouldn't cut corners 

 

I cannot find the right emoji for this.

 

[Warcodered]

10 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Thank you for pointing this out.

 

I acknowledge I haven't read the entire article and I'm not gonna subscribe to do so. 

 

But from what's been quoted and brought out, there's a weird gamish:

1) stuff that factually happened (9/11 as teamwork example, McDermott upset about Hall having a WR get together at Hall's house during covid and WR having such friendly feelings towards Hall that they gifted him a truck)

2) the interpretation the sources placed on things that happened (McDermott dunked on Hall for getting a truck because according to the source, McDermott is personally incapable of having close relationships with players and jealous of coaches who can)

 

I don't think Dunne is making stuff up, and I think the stuff that he says happened, probably happened in some form.

 

I think the interpretations placed on it, may or may not have veracity or be heavily skewed by the choice of sources.

 

Yeah there is plenty of spinning of things in the article to frame it in a specific way. When it gets into the post 13 seconds game talking about him putting blame other places and not taking accountability. Which to be fair if a lot of that was said that's not a great look, but the way that part ends with him saying the last thing he told players was to reflect and to think about what they could do so you wouldn't be in this situation again, that one isn't bad. That's a standard the season didn't end how we wanted and we're headed into the offseason thing to say. But that's not how it's framed.

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

I cannot find the right emoji for this.....

😬

[QCity]

18 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

they are giving a decision maker who is a gatekeeper to their future earnings not just a gift of value, but of significant value. 

 

 

Chad Hall is the gatekeeper to Stefon Diggs' future earnings?

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Success said:

Coaches are pretty nutty in general.  And we want them to be to an extent - we want them to be obsessive, and live this stuff 24x7, which takes a certain kind of person.

 

If they win, it's all okay.  When they don't, it's not.  If won a SB the 13 seconds year, and were in line for the 1 seed right now, none of this would be much of a thing.

 

 

Exactly.  Consider Andy Reid.  According to some Philly fan friends, back in 2007 when a judge was sentencing his sons Garrett and Britt to jail and referring to Reid's home as a "Drug Emporium" and the Reids as a "family in crisis", the word about Reid was "not good enough" as a HC.  After all, between 2001 and 2004 when the Eagles lost 3 conference championships and a Superbowl, 2 of the 3 conf. losses were Thumpings and the SB loss showed Reid had poor gameday management and just couldn't Git 'Er Done.  Now they knew why: his home life was a mess and he failed as a father. 

 

It was controversial (according to my friend) that Reid was retained, especially when the Eagles went 8-8 that year and 9-6-1 the next (and lost another conf. champ).

 

Then there was the year the Reid-coached Chiefs lost in the playoffs AGAIN, and Dungy pronounced "the Kansas City Chiefs may win a championship, but it won't be with Andy Reid as their coach"

 

Winning changes everything

 

 

[HardyBoy]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Trying to say that it's reasonable to assume the truck was a bribe from the wideouts to their position coach in order to absolve McDermott is really wild

 

You're missing the point, it can be perceived as such, that is all that matters...and that's not laughable, it's totally plausible that a player might try that... maybe pay for a coach's kid's private school...I don't think for a second the truck was given as a bribe, but again it could be perceived that way and especially if that type of thing is normalized within an organization, it eventually will happen.

 

But i can look up the exact FCPA laws, but I'm pretty positive they simply require a perceived conflict of interest to start causing issues

[GoBills808]

Just now, HardyBoy said:

 

You're missing the point, it can be perceived as such, that is all that matters...and that's not laughable, it's totally plausible that a player might try that... maybe pay for a coach's kid's private school...I don't think for a second the truck was given as a bribe, but again it could be perceived that way and especially if that type of thing is normalized within an organization, it eventually will happen.

 

But i can look up the exact FCPA laws, but I'm pretty positive they simply require a perceived conflict of interest to start causing issues

Bananas dude

 

You're spinning 

[HardyBoy]

1 minute ago, GoBills808 said:

Bananas dude

 

You're spinning 

 

Except I'm very much not and if I was in McDs position I would be pissed as well.

[Buffalo Super Fan]

27 minutes ago, BillsSbSoon said:

If you think over the years we’ve been getting screwed by bad officiating before, wait till you see what probably happens now. Dunne is a punk for putting out this hit piece, but Sean said what he said and admitted it. And just embarassed the organization in a really bad way. He needs to go it doesn’t seem likes it’s recoverable. 

The Buffalo Bills Sean McDermott handling it created more of a problem and it’s a major flaw with him as a head coach. He needs to be like New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick mumble and say absolutely nothing to any of the media. That is the difference between how a Super Bowl winning coach handles the media and Sean McDermott. Second Tyler Dunne should be welcomed with a Buffalo Bills press pass the other 31 NFL teams gave him one but treat him like everyone else the enemy and the Bills organization would be fine. Part of that is the flaw in Bills and Sabres owner Terry Pegula he is very thin skinned and petty man which makes things worse in the long term. Not giving Tyler Dunne a Bills press pass he had for years before is pretty and vindicated the Bills organization looks like incompetent fools. Hire Bill Belichick the Buffalo sports media and the Bills owner and organization needs that badly he knows how to run a organization nothing would get out of the Bills organization but what Bill Belichick wants to get out wonderful coach a winner hire him. Whatever the cost in compensation to acquire him from the New England Patriots in the offseason before the Bills waste Josh Allen’s talent anymore in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

[Warcodered]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

Trying to say that it's reasonable to assume the truck was a bribe from the wideouts to their position coach in order to absolve McDermott is really wild

 

2 minutes ago, QCity said:

 

Chad Hall is the gatekeeper to Stefon Diggs' future earnings?

Everybody is missing the damn point, he's the WR Coach, it's his job to get up in their faces too not just be their buddy.

[Simon]

8 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

😬

 

It's more of a stiffly pinching the bridge of your nose to hold in a chortle sort of thing.

[HardyBoy]

Anyone else think there is a reason people don't buy coaches trucks? The source said he's never seen that before... you think that's because no coaches were ever super well liked by players? 

 

This isn't them tipping the support staff in the organization at the end of the season...a position coach has a ton of input on how a season goes for a player and subsequently their career and future contracts.

[Mikie2times]

Just now, HardyBoy said:

 

Except I'm very much not and if I was in McDs position I would be pissed as well.

An entire position group decides to buy a WR coach who probably makes less than most directors a present, because he's awesome, and instead of being proud of that coach or expressing behind closed doors a potential conflict, we can just justify him raining hell down for the day and being a complete prick to that coach as well as others.

 

Bra.....off the hill on this one.   

[GoBills808]

3 minutes ago, HardyBoy said:

 

Except I'm very much not and if I was in McDs position I would be pissed as well.

And Chad Hall leaving in a lateral move was just a coincidence right

[Mikie2times]

2 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

 

Everybody is missing the damn point, he's the WR Coach, it's his job to get up in their faces too not just be their buddy.

No, we see the point. If you have nothing but pricks as coaches you won't get the best out of anybody. It's a balancing act. 

[BillsPride12]

11 hours ago, BillsPride12 said:

Tyler Dunne was on the Shred and Ragan show this morning to discuss this piece and offered some more insights as well.  It was an interesting listen and I would assume will probably be available to listen to as a podcast on the 97 Rock website at some point by today.  He also talked about how although they don't hate each other there is definitely a huge disconnect between McDermott and Allen but also said Josh just doesn't have the personality to vocally call McDermott out but there are other guys in the Bills locker room that have told him he should.

 

For what it's worth after Dunne hung up, Ragan mentioned he has a contact inside the organization that he reached out to after the piece was written to get his thoughts on if the portrayal was accurate to which his contact replied "Dead Center Accurate" 

https://omny.fm/shows/the-shredd-ragan-show-daily-podcast/shredd-ragan-podcast-friday-tyler-dunne-on-the-buf

 

Here's the link for anybody interested

[FLFan]

If you were actually trying to find a more biased, self interested, uninformed source of information than Tyler Dunne you literally could not.  

[Warcodered]

1 minute ago, Mikie2times said:

No, we see the point. If you have nothing but pricks as coaches you won't get the best out of anybody. It's a balancing act. 

Yeah of course it is, there's nothing wrong with your players liking you, but there does need to be a degree of separation because of the difference in your roles.

[Mikie2times]

Just now, Warcodered said:

Yeah of course it is, there's nothing wrong with your players liking you, but there does need to be a degree of separation because of the difference in your roles.

I'm not going to assume that line was crossed because a group of guys coordinated to do something special. 

[LABILLBACKER]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo Super Fan said:

The Buffalo Bills Sean McDermott handling it created more of a problem and it’s a major flaw with him as a head coach. He needs to be like New England Patriots coach Bill Belichick mumble and say absolutely nothing to any of the media. That is the difference between how a Super Bowl winning coach handles the media and Sean McDermott. Second Tyler Dunne should be welcomed with a Buffalo Bills press pass the other 31 NFL teams gave him one but treat him like everyone else the enemy and the Bills organization would be fine. Part of that is the flaw in Bills and Sabres owner Terry Pegula he is very thin skinned and petty man which makes things worse in the long term. Not giving Tyler Dunne a Bills press pass he had for years before is pretty and vindicated the Bills organization looks like incompetent fools. Hire Bill Belichick the Buffalo sports media and the Bills owner and organization needs that badly he knows how to run a organization nothing would get out of the Bills organization but what Bill Belichick wants to get out wonderful coach a winner hire him. Whatever the cost in compensation to acquire him from the New England Patriots in the offseason before the Bills waste Josh Allen’s talent anymore in my opinion. Go Bills! Let’s Go Buffalo 

Bill is an amazing legendary defensive strategist.  But giving up a 1st round pick and paying him way more than Ben Johnson would require is utter nonsense.  Bill Belichick is a terrible talent evaluator (gm) and knows nothing more about offensive structure than McDermott.  Now if Bill in writing promised to promote Brady as OC and let Beane do his job, then I'd be on board.  Beli doesn't blow games late defensively.