Not addressing WR is a fail...

[BADOLBILZ]

17 hours ago, strive_for_five_guy said:

Kincaid is the WR2 now.  But agree that the WR3 is still unclear…

 

 

You can't attach the letters "WR" to anyone who is averaging just 8 yards per catch.   Nobody who lines up near the LOS should be averaging that pathetically low of a ypc.      

 

Kincaid is the second target but he ain't a WR2 at this point.

 

 

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

His INT last night was the same concept. And his first throw against the Pats. We have put that play on tape way too many times. And Kurt Warner after the Jets game in his film review pointed out that in our offense, the "high" WR on that play is not running it to a high enough level to really put the CB in conflict.

 

So CBs are being taught exactly how to defend both areas and muddy Allen's read or bait him into an interception. I feel the way about these plays that I feel about goalline shotgun runs - conceptually I understand that they can be sound plays, but with our personnel more often than not they are killing us. So why does Dorsey continue calling those plays every week?

 

 

 

And why isn't Josh astute enough to intervene with regard to things that don't work?    He is the most powerful person in the organization, he handpicked Dorsey and needs to be more accountable for the results.  

 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by BADOLBILZ

[HappyDays]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

And why isn't Josh astute enough to intervene with regard to things that don't work?    He is the most powerful person in the organization, he handpicked Dorsey and needs to be more accountable for the results.  

 

Sure. Based on some of his press conference answers yesterday, he may have finally gotten to that points. He and the other offensive players, not to mention McDermott, sounded perplexed that they are not running the style of offense they would prefer to run. I imagine Dorsey's seat is feeling quite warm right now... Hopefully that forces a change.

[dave mcbride]

27 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

You can't attach the letters "WR" to anyone who is averaging just 8 yards per catch.   Nobody who lines up near the LOS should be averaging that pathetically low of a ypc.      

 

Kincaid is the second target but he ain't a WR2 at this point.

 

 

The thing is, he is fully capable NOW of being a TE who averages 11-12 yards a catch. They just don't utilize him that way. He was fantastic in college on seam routes, but they don't have him running them nearly enough. He is good enough already to be one of those TE touchdown machines, and it really needs to start now. He's clearly a pretty massive talent; don't waste it by feeding him a steady diet of five-yard dumpoffs. Push him down the field and allow him to make plays. He can do it.  

[HappyDays]

8 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

His INT last night was the same concept. And his first throw against the Pats. We have put that play on tape way too many times. And Kurt Warner after the Jets game in his film review pointed out that in our offense, the "high" WR on that play is not running it to a high enough level to really put the CB in conflict.

 

So CBs are being taught exactly how to defend both areas and muddy Allen's read or bait him into an interception. I feel the way about these plays that I feel about goalline shotgun runs - conceptually I understand that they can be sound plays, but with our personnel more often than not they are killing us. So why does Dorsey continue calling those plays every week?

 

 

Coming back to this:

 

This is the result of predictable play calling. CTB baits Allen into thinking he's biting on the pump fake to the low route and then scuttles back to pick off the pass. I mean Allen still should have seen that CTB had leverage and shouldn't have thrown the ball, but it's also a bad play call that has become very easy to defend because of how often we put it on tape.

[Bills!Win!]

Von Miller is probably laughing right now. He tried so hard to recruit Hopkins, Henry and OBJ and this is the trash we got 
 

[akcash]

I wish Justin shorter was available. he might be somebody who can play. 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

It’s been said all year, but Gabe has a good game then disappears for a week. I think Josh would settle for a guy who’s good for 4-5 a game than someone who’s good for 9 catches one week, then 2 the next. 

[BADOLBILZ]

17 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

The thing is, he is fully capable NOW of being a TE who averages 11-12 yards a catch. They just don't utilize him that way. He was fantastic in college on seam routes, but they don't have him running them nearly enough. He is good enough already to be one of those TE touchdown machines, and it really needs to start now. He's clearly a pretty massive talent; don't waste it by feeding him a steady diet of five-yard dumpoffs. Push him down the field and allow him to make plays. He can do it.  

 

Well when you run the spread you turn into dink and dunk by nature.........so as they lean more into spread and uptempo don't expect to see longer routes from Kincaid.

  

[The Jokeman]

42 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:

Von Miller is probably laughing right now. He tried so hard to recruit Hopkins, Henry and OBJ and this is the trash we got 
 

I'm glad we didn't get OBJ. What's he done in Baltimore? Hopkins hasn't lit things up in Tennessee either. Henry is on the wrong side of 30 and cost too much on the cap to be worth while. 

42 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

It’s been said all year, but Gabe has a good game then disappears for a week. I think Josh would settle for a guy who’s good for 4-5 a game than someone who’s good for 9 catches one week, then 2 the next. 

Yup Shakir is slowly developing into that. Yet still need a size WR (see Higgins) maybe we draft one early next year in the first three rounds when some team gives Davis serious cash.

[BillsShredder83]

14 hours ago, Freddie's Dead said:

Remember when we ran McKittrick outta town on a rail?  And when we replaced him with two guys that cost like 4x what it would have taken just to keep him?  Well they have way less FDs and points halfway into the season, and likely won't equal McKittrick's 2022 output by the end of the season. Good times. 

Dude fumbled a PR yesterday. harty/sherfield hasnt done great but they havent put ball on the ground.  plus i doubt dorsey is getting the most/anything outta our guys. we already saw him get nothing outt isiah, and hes doing it again over there

 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

Not enough Brandon Beane threads. 
 

 

[BillsShredder83]

12 hours ago, LyndonvilleBill said:

Been saying it for weeks. Scrap the Harty project and bring up Isabella. Harty is useless,  time to do something different. 

dorsey incompetence. wed need to start the experiment to know. just like shakir last year, hes looked dangerous ball in the hands, but have found no way to target him.... i fully understand that could very well be on Harty, but a player like him you need to scheme him in. screens would be a great start, end around, force the ball to him

 

tbh i dont care if hes a bad route runner (from Cover 1's breakdowns hes not), you dont blatantly give up on the guy. find a way to force the ball to him 3xs a game, bc those 3 touches can alter how a D plays us.... if we do that and it doesnt work out. fine. but we havent

[BillsShredder83]

11 hours ago, PatsFanNH said:

 The issue is IMO running the ball with RB only what 8-10 times a game? You’re hardly keeping the defense honest and they are just pinning their ears back and going for Allen, because he is either throwing it or running it himself.  That’s just not a championship formula. 

im fine with RB carries where they generally there with some variance, but josh needs to take off more (AKA "be allowed").... THAT is what can slow down the rush. crazy we neutered him that way. also, ive been vocal about taking out QB draws on 2nd & 9 from our own 40, but they have dissappeared from redzone. why are we voluntarily handicapping ourselves?

 

from strictly an intelligence standpoint, youd this dorsey knows his seat is HOTTTTT. if i were him id atleast be smart enough to think, forget me extending Josh's career if im not going to be here, and be running josh inside the redzone like Cam Newton rookie year..... Dorsey may not be able to do that out of fear of McD firing him.... at that point, why does Sean not feel the same heat i referenced to Dorsey

 

lets be clear im not advocating running josh into the ground, but i see no sense in urgency of them fighting for the season, let alone their jobs!

 

strictly from their point of view its like saying 'im only gunna bang my gf softly, so shes not ruined for the guy next year' lol SHOW SOME URGENCY!

10 hours ago, starrymessenger said:

Sign Tee Higgins in FA.

IM GUNNA CRUM!! YES PLEASEEEEEEEEEE

[BillsShredder83]

2 hours ago, akcash said:

I wish Justin shorter was available. he might be somebody who can play. 

we already have a guy who cant get seperation on the field. maybe he can develop into a RZ target, but id rather we learn how to use our surefire TD machine in Kink, before we add another unknown/unproven piece

2 hours ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

It’s been said all year, but Gabe has a good game then disappears for a week. I think Josh would settle for a guy who’s good for 4-5 a game than someone who’s good for 9 catches one week, then 2 the next. 

bingo, we need steady reliable. f this boom or bust that costs us games. kill drives, kill games. gabe is fools gold, hopefully someone like Jax 2 years ago overpays like a mf'er and we get a comp pick for unloading dead weight

[BillsFanForever19]

20 hours ago, Chugga said:

Diggs is elite.  Kincaid can ball.  Shakir is sneaky good and if you mask James Cooks weakness in pass protection the guy can get loose.  The offensive line has held up pretty damn well this season.

 

The QB also has gamebreaking talent.  We’ve got the players to put up more than 18 points 

 

Absolutely.

 

The goal posts keep being moved by posters. Pre-Draft it was that we needed a solid #2 option. We Draft Kincaid, a WR who's only technically a TE. Then it was "well, we can't rely on a Rookie". Over the past 2 weeks, Kincaid has emerged as that #2 option and has been playing very solid.

 

Now it's "not addressing WR is a fail"? So you're saying we have an Elite QB, but he has to have not 2, but 3 stud level options? 2 isn't good enough now? 

 

Most teams would kill for a Diggs/Kincaid 1-2 punch with a solid roleplayer, as Shakir has been out of the slot the past couple weeks. Mahomes has Kelce and....? Kelce and Roleplayers is what he has.

 

We have the talent. It's Dorsey and the OL (can't run block, can't pass block) that is failing this offense.

Edited November 7, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[AlCowlingsTaxiService]

18 hours ago, Beast said:

I actually get why he did nothing two off-seasons ago.After Davis’s playoff performance, I too thought he was on his way.

 

 

I thought so too, but when I finally rewatched the KC playoff game, it became apparent that Gabe was the beneficiary of several busted coverages … he was literally uncovered on several of his touchdowns 

[KOKBILLS]

20 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

Games stat line.  0. 

 

He needs to sit.  He's a trash second. 

Tee higgins.  Dominant.  

Waddle last week.  Dominant. 

Gabe.  *****. 

 

Start shakir and make sherfield 3. 

 

The answer was in the 2022 Draft... Of course Beane never listens to me... Nor should he I guess... But we now have a CB on IR who cannot beat out Dane Jackson instead of George Pickens who has put up similar-to-a -little-better-stats than Gabe since he's been in the NFL... with nobody at QB. I don't think a single NFL GM would take Gabe Davis over George Pickens...or even a healthy Christian Watson for that matter. But here we are...

 

McD had to have the notebook guy. And nothing against Elam who was pretty clearly a high-mid 2nd Rd caliber prospect, but a lot of folks liked Tariq Woolen more than Elam anyway. And 5th round pick or not, Woolen has had little problem adjusting to the NFL game in a zone heavy scheme. Cam Taylor Britt has been better, Kyler Gordon has played a lot... Due to injuries I'm not sure there is a single pick the Bills needed to hit on more than Elam, and it's been a massive whiff so far... Pickens was clearly the better player coming out IMHO... He's an alpha... Elam had a notebook... 

 

Anyway...

[BuffaloBillsGospel2014]

21 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

Games stat line.  0. 

 

He needs to sit.  He's a trash second. 

Tee higgins.  Dominant.  

Waddle last week.  Dominant. 

Gabe.  *****. 

 

Start shakir and make sherfield 3. 

 

You really have to stop using the Bengals and Dolphins as the outlier... They both have teams have a QB on a rookie contract, even after Burrow signed his deal it doesn't kick in until 2025 , this year his cap hit is only 19M+ and next year is 29M+. They will most likely lose Higgins next season and Tua is still on his rookie deal. It's going to be damn near impossible to get another guy of Diggs' caliber opposite of him, it will most likely be a rookie or a lesser WR than Gabe Davis so be careful what you wish for. Not saying i dont agree with you that I wouldn't like an upgrade but you can basically forget about those types of players unless we get a stud like Jordan Addison in the 1st or 2nd round of the draft imo.

[finn]

22 hours ago, Hebert19 said:

Games stat line.  0. 

 

He needs to sit.  He's a trash second. 

Tee higgins.  Dominant.  

Waddle last week.  Dominant. 

Gabe.  *****. 

 

Start shakir and make sherfield 3. 

I've said more or less the same all season. Gabe Davis is a liability the same way Von Miller is at this point: They take time from more impactful players. The stats he has have more to do with the quality of the QB throwing to him than any ability he has. I keep thinking they would have gotten a heck of a return if they had traded him after the 13 second game. 

[BillsFanForever19]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Goal posts keep being moved?  What a hypocrite. 

 

10 days ago you declared Gabriel Davis was an excellent WR2 because he was ranked in the top 30 in receptions and yards and insisted that he would "stay in that range"(even though the Bills had played 8 games and every other team only 6 or 7).

 

Now Gabe is in the 60's and 40's in those ranks......following a double bagel in those categories........and with the Bills still having played 1 more game than some other teams.

 

So now Kincaid is your WR2.   Not even mentioning Gabe after singing his praises a week ago.

 

What a Dbag!   This is hilarious! 

 

 

When I mentioned he'd stay in that range, I was talking about the week in which you pointed out that the other games hadn't played out yet. To that point, he was in the range of top WR2's. My point in discussing Davis is that when it came to WR2's around the league, to that point, he was producing at as high or higher of a level than most of the league.

 

I thought about mentioning Davis as one of the roleplayers going forward but over the past couple weeks, the offense has run almost exclusively through Diggs, Kincaid, and Shakir. And quite frankly, pointing out ANY positives about Davis around here is grounds for hostility and insult slinging. Now me not mentioning him is grounds for it too, I guess.

 

You wanted a different high end 2nd option? One has presented itself in the performance and rapid growth of Kincaid. You wanted to go away from Davis? We have. Davis is a total non factor now. 

 

But it's still not enough. We're still harping on an upgrade from Davis - who is at most Option 3, more like Option 4 given the usage of Shakir. And that's where I mentioned the goal post moving. We now need an upgrade at option 3 or option 4, even though the discussion was consistently about needing a 2nd option - which we have now.

 

The core of pass catchers is not the problem. The problem is the lack of run blocking, the lack of pass blocking, and the playcalling. It's not the weapons.

Edited November 7, 2023 by BillsFanForever19

[Returntoglory]

The glaring elephant in the room! 

[BillMafia716ix]

Who are Mahomes WR’s?? The Bills have more than enough. The scheme they run is horrible and doesn’t get guys open. 

[Aimee75]

17 minutes ago, BillMafia716ix said:

Who are Mahomes WR’s?? The Bills have more than enough. The scheme they run is horrible and doesn’t get guys open. 

Mahomes has Kelce. Josh has Diggs. Both offenses are having some issues. 

[harmonkillebrew]

More talent at WR would mask the inability of our OC to run a good scheme. KC doesn't have that problem, as their coaches are much better than ours.

Gabe can't reliably win 1on1 matchups, teams double Diggs, Kincaid and Shakir starting to step-up, but OC still holding us back. 

Also Mahomes is just better than Josh.

16 hours ago, HappyDays said:

 

Coming back to this:

 

This is the result of predictable play calling. CTB baits Allen into thinking he's biting on the pump fake to the low route and then scuttles back to pick off the pass. I mean Allen still should have seen that CTB had leverage and shouldn't have thrown the ball, but it's also a bad play call that has become very easy to defend because of how often we put it on tape.

It was a crap throw by Allen. Way short. 

The hitch and re-load probably contributed. If he had narrowed in on Gabe from the start maybe he throws a better hole shot

[The Jokeman]

23 hours ago, zow2 said:

Gabe is not even serviceable at this point.  Forget being a WR2.  He was a one trick pony for a while, just send him on deep pattern and maybe you'd hit one.  But now he's become very easy to cover and he is not on the same page as Allen all too often.

Quick name the #2 WR of KC, #2WR in Baltimore #2WR in San Francisco, truth is without google most fans can't name them, why? Because most #2 WRs aren't elite. 

10 hours ago, Aimee75 said:

Mahomes has Kelce. Josh has Diggs. Both offenses are having some issues. 

17 teams this week scored more than the Bills 18 points, there's an issue throughout the league on offense. 

[goldenboy81]

This offense is really missing a true downfield threat

[HappyDays]

39 minutes ago, harmonkillebrew said:

The hitch and re-load probably contributed. If he had narrowed in on Gabe from the start maybe he throws a better hole shot

 

It wasn't a hitch and re-load, he was pump faking towards Diggs to try and get CTB to bite towards the flat. The throw more than the read is what bothered me. You can't throw that on a straight line, it has to be up and over or leading Davis further upfield so that worst case scenario it falls out of bounds.

[Aimee75]

5 hours ago, goldenboy81 said:

This offense is really missing a true downfield threat

This is where I miss our 2021 season. Also rocky, and a win/loss every other week, but we had Emmanuel Sanders and he was awesome, and we still had a relatively serviceable Beasely.

[The Jokeman]

On 11/5/2023 at 11:37 PM, peterpan said:

DHop worth every penny.  Just sayin 

because the Titans offense is lighting things up?

[Bruffalo]

Just now, The Jokeman said:

because the Titans offense is lighting things up?

Tannehill looked bad.  Hopkins has looked good in the two games Levis has played. I bet he'd look awesome if he was on the Bills. 

[The Jokeman]

4 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

Tannehill looked bad.  Hopkins has looked good in the two games Levis has played. I bet he'd look awesome if he was on the Bills. 

idk, he seems to be an Alpha much like Diggs, not sure he could deal with getting little money and little receptions/fan fare. As much as we like to think all guys play for ring some just play for the money as know that they likely won't be doing anything else once they retire.