2023 MVP: Lamar will win it with 15 fewer TDs than Josh Allen (end of season talk pg 75+)

[The Wiz]

1 hour ago, HappyDays said:

 

At least the Chiefs have an excuse of trying to re-tool their team after two Super Bowl wins. What's our excuse? Considering we restructured our three biggest contracts in the offseason, presumably that was a signal that Beane was pushing the chips in. The more I think about it, the more it blows my mind that he didn't find a way to fit Hopkins in.

I highly doubt that if Hopkins said "yea, let's do it" that Beane wouldn't have worked every penny out to get him on the team.

 

The chiefs also have a cap hit for their top 3 (Mahomes, Kelce and Jones) that equal our top 7 this year (Allen, Diggs, Von, Morse, Hyde, Poyer, Johnson).  The problem is next year when we are going to need to re-tool and wont have the room to do it.  Hopkins 16m next year wouldn't fit even if they wanted it to.

 

Better off drafting guys instead of signing a guy for 2 years and then having to deal with the cap hit in 2024. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by The Wiz

[Scott7975]

6 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Who told you to shut up about dropped passes haha?

 

It was a figure of speech. There were a bunch of people that were like "stop whining about drops everyone has drops."  It didn't matter that we had an abnormal amount of drops.  I don't remember who the posters were and I don't care to because I don't "keep and check my receipts."  I just remember what was said.

 

I agree we have better players than KC this year and I've said it before.  However, Diggs has been in a funk of drops and Davis still drops a lot of balls and disappears from games completely.  It's not like we are worldly better than them.  Miami, Bengals, and a bunch of other teams have way better than we do.  We have Diggs when he is on, Cook when we use him, a rookie Kincaid, and a bunch of role players.

 

I know for a fact that Allen has elevated players in the past.  Is Mahomes elevating his guys?  Mahomes is great but this is the first season he has dealt with any diversity at all.  Its showing in his outburst yesterday.

Edited December 12, 2023 by Scott7975

[HappyDays]

On 12/1/2023 at 6:14 PM, BullBuchanan said:

Tua will probably drop another 3-4TDs this week and leave Allen even further in the dust in every other category.

 

Tua added a whopping 0 TDs to his "best AFC East QB" campaign tonight.

[Warcodered]

7 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Tua added a whopping 0 TDs to his "best AFC East QB" campaign tonight.

Here lies the grave of Tuas MVP campaign.

[Scott7975]

 

Instead all they talk about is the off sides call that was 1000% legit.  Oh and Allens int but nevermind Mahomes int.

[transplantbillsfan]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Instead all they talk about is the off sides call that was 1000% legit.  Oh and Allens int but nevermind Mahomes int.

 

Pretty ***** ridiculous, isn't it?

[Warcodered]

6 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

Instead all they talk about is the off sides call that was 1000% legit.  Oh and Allens int but nevermind Mahomes int.

The Offside call stuff pisses me off, Mahomes said it's because it's such an amazing play, well it's a ***** illegal pick play by Toney so maybe not that amazing besides what happened after Kelce got the ball. But even then the reason defenders were scrambling to get to him was because they the guy covering him was trying to catch back up after getting blocked.

[BigDingus]

He's gone 9 straight games with an INT and atop the turnover charts again. 

 

Unless he can string together multiple games without a turnover & win out, he's not going to be in the MVP conversation. People can get mad about it, but that's just the reality, especially with a 7-6 team.

[Punch]

28 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Tua added a whopping 0 TDs to his "best AFC East QB" campaign tonight.

Only because the Miami Dolphins' MVP missed two quarters with an ankle injury.

[Warcodered]

3 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

He's gone 9 straight games with an INT and atop the turnover charts again. 

 

Unless he can string together multiple games without a turnover & win out, he's not going to be in the MVP conversation. People can get mad about it, but that's just the reality, especially with a 7-6 team.

Tua added another fumble lost today.

[JGMcD2]

15 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

Tua added another fumble lost today.

Two actually. He’s up to 16 turnovers on the season.

 

Josh has 17. 

[transplantbillsfan]

19 minutes ago, BigDingus said:

He's gone 9 straight games with an INT and atop the turnover charts again. 

 

Unless he can string together multiple games without a turnover & win out, he's not going to be in the MVP conversation. People can get mad about it, but that's just the reality, especially with a 7-6 team.

 

Don't know if he needs to do this.

 

He's way ahead in total TDs in the NFL.

[strive_for_five_guy]

1 minute ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Don't know if he needs to do this.

 

He's way ahead in total TDs in the NFL.

Agree.  He beats Dak heads up, and leads this team to 11-6 and divisional win, he’ll be right up there with anyone else in the conversation.

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Don't know if he needs to do this.

 

He's way ahead in total TDs in the NFL.

 

For me he don't.  I don't think he does to win a superbowl either.  For MVP voting I think he does.  Them guys are all about stats, wins, and seed.  I wish it was more than that because Allen IMO should have an MVP by now.

[JGMcD2]

3 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Don't know if he needs to do this.

 

He's way ahead in total TDs in the NFL.

I mean that’s what I don’t understand. Josh produces as QB1 and RB1 every year… it’s insane he’s not the MVP. 
 

Not that this matters league wide, but he’s like 4th on the all-time Bills list in touchdowns from scrimmage. It’s kind of wild. 
 

Praying to God things go right… he can end up our all time passing TD and scrimmage TD leader lol 

[mrags]

2 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

I mean that’s what I don’t understand. Josh produces as QB1 and RB1 every year… it’s insane he’s not the MVP. 
 

Not that this matters league wide, but he’s like 4th on the all-time Bills list in touchdowns from scrimmage. It’s kind of wild. 
 

Praying to God things go right… he can end up our all time passing TD and scrimmage TD leader lol 

Our? If things go right he’s going to end up the NFL scrimmage TD leader 

[transplantbillsfan]

7 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Two actually. He’s up to 16 turnovers on the season.

 

Josh has 17. 

 

Tua has 24 TDs and 16 turnovers.

 

Josh has 35 TDs and 17 turnovers.

 

Josh has the turnover problem, though.

[JGMcD2]

2 minutes ago, mrags said:

Our? If things go right he’s going to end up the NFL scrimmage TD leader 

It’ll be hard for him to get to 207 rushing TDs haha

Just now, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Tua has 24 TDs and 16 turnovers.

 

Josh has 35 TDs and 17 turnovers.

 

Josh has the turnover problem, though.

Mahomes has 23 TDs and 13 turnovers 

 

Hurts has 31 TDs and 15 turnovers 

[mrags]

3 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

It’ll be hard for him to get to 207 rushing TDs haha

Mahomes has 23 TDs and 13 turnovers 

 

Hurts has 31 TDs and 15 turnovers 

I thought you meant all time TD record. 
 

yes. He will absolutely break Thomas’ Bills record for TDs. And he’ll definitely top Kelly as well. 

He’s likely going to finish #3 in rushing yards also 

[JGMcD2]

1 minute ago, mrags said:

I thought you meant all time TD record. 
 

yes. He will absolutely break Thomas’ Bills record for TDs. And he’ll definitely top Kelly as well. 

Ah yeah, I see why how it was phrased was confusing. 
 

He can set the NFL record for total TD. Absolutely. 

[mrags]

6 minutes ago, JGMcD2 said:

Ah yeah, I see why how it was phrased was confusing. 
 

He can set the NFL record for total TD. Absolutely. 

I have been trying to look for it and can’t find it anywhere. It’s not like an official stat so not easy to find it. I’d imagine it’s Brady, or Manning. But Josh should be on pace to break that with like 5 years less considering all his rushing TDs. Assuming he stays fairly healthy and doesn’t drop off too bad. 
 

imo after his career is all said and done he may go down as the best to ever play the game. Certainly in the conversation. And statistically you’ll be able to argue it easily. I think record keeping for overall TDs will be a thing because of Josh. Let’s just hope he gets at least 1 ring. 

[Scott7975]

11 minutes ago, mrags said:

I have been trying to look for it and can’t find it anywhere. It’s not like an official stat so not easy to find it. I’d imagine it’s Brady, or Manning. But Josh should be on pace to break that with like 5 years less considering all his rushing TDs. Assuming he stays fairly healthy and doesn’t drop off too bad. 
 

imo after his career is all said and done he may go down as the best to ever play the game. Certainly in the conversation. And statistically you’ll be able to argue it easily. I think record keeping for overall TDs will be a thing because of Josh. Let’s just hope he gets at least 1 ring. 

this has most total tds. Brady leads by a mile with 677. Brees is next with 597

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/what-quarterback-is-scored-the-most-total-touchdowns-in-their-career

[dma0034]

I will say it again: Hill should be the MVP. Dolphins Offense looked terrible while he was out

[Ray Stonada]

If we beat Dallas and Josh outplays Dak without a turnover, he is back in the conversation.
 

 

[mrags]

5 hours ago, dma0034 said:

I will say it again: Hill should be the MVP. Dolphins Offense looked terrible while he was out

Doesn’t work that way. We’ve been through this argument before. By that argument, Payton Manning should have got the MVP the year he was injured in the Broncos. Hill would need to legit have 2,000+ yards and probably 18 or more TDs. If you’re looking for a non WB to be MVP it would likely be CMC but he better have the same stat line. At least 2,000 yards and 18 or more TDs. 
 

Josh is going to finish with close to 50 combined TDs and that’s probably going to be 10 more than anyone in the league. By rights he should get it. If we make the playoffs he will. 

[mrags]

8 hours ago, Scott7975 said:

this has most total tds. Brady leads by a mile with 677. Brees is next with 597

 

https://www.statmuse.com/nfl/ask/what-quarterback-is-scored-the-most-total-touchdowns-in-their-career

If he plays 18 years at this rate he’ll be at 633. Pretty darn close. An extra few each year or a massive monster season gets him there. It’s a lot. Brady played for so damn long. I have no doubts he’ll be #2 thought if he plays long enough and healthy enough. 

[transplantbillsfan]

Total yards leader in NFL = Josh Allen 

 

Total TD leader in NFL = Josh Allen 

 

I haven't looked this up... but have the winners of both those stats EVER lost NFL MVP????

 

yet....

 

Up to #5: 

AP MVP Winner

Dak Prescott

+150

Brock Purdy

+175

Lamar Jackson

+600

Jalen Hurts

+800

Josh Allen

+1400

 

 

[Dr.Sack]

Only way this happens:
 

Beat Dak

Beat Hill/Tua again

Beat Mahomes ✔️

 

That’s a 4-1 record vs the MVP front runners. 

 

Dominate LAC & NE 

 

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Told y'all Purdy would be MVP or MVP Jr behind Josh...no you all said, he's a pretender. 

[Scott7975]

27 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Told y'all Purdy would be MVP or MVP Jr behind Josh...no you all said, he's a pretender. 

 

I mean just like Tua is trash without Hill, Purdy hasnt been good without Deebo.  49ers are loaded with talent.  Miami has some talent and are loaded with speed.  These aren't QBs that really elevate their team.  Their team kinda elevates them.  I shouldn't say trash but... they are mid without all that talent. JMO.

Edited December 13, 2023 by Scott7975

[Sherlock Holmes]

2 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

I mean just like Tua is trash without Hill, Purdy hasnt been good without Deebo.  49ers are loaded with talent.  Miami has some talent and are loaded with speed.  These aren't QBs that really elevate their team.  Their team kinda elevates them.  I shouldn't say trash but... they are mid without all that talent. JMO.

Yes Tua is trash...Purdy a top 2 QB in this league, all he needs is McCaffrey and Kittle to catch his perfect balls.

[Scott7975]

31 minutes ago, Sherlock Holmes said:

Yes Tua is trash...Purdy a top 2 QB in this league, all he needs is McCaffrey and Kittle to catch his perfect balls.

Except every game with Deebo out huh

[Since1981]

So jealous 

Brock surrounding cast is so much better than Josh has, it’s amazingly better

 

Tua without 

46 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

These aren't QBs that really elevate their team.  Their team kinda elevates them.  I shouldn't say trash but... they are mid without all that talent. JMO.

Yes. I think Patty and Josh elevate their teams. These other guys, not the same. 

[Scott7975]

Just now, Since1981 said:

So jealous 

Brock surrounding cast is so much better than Josh has, it’s amazingly better

 

Tua without 

Yes. I think Patty and Josh elevate their teams. These other guys, not the same. 

 

Yeah I am pretty jealous of that. Look at Cinci too.  They are doing better right now than with Burrow.  Beane needs to get one of these WR in the draft.  I know we need some defensive reload but building this offense is a must.

[Scott7975]

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Total yards leader in NFL = Josh Allen 

 

Total TD leader in NFL = Josh Allen 

 

I haven't looked this up... but have the winners of both those stats EVER lost NFL MVP????

 

yet....

 

Up to #5: 

AP MVP Winner

Dak Prescott

+150

Brock Purdy

+175

Lamar Jackson

+600

Jalen Hurts

+800

Josh Allen

+1400

 

 

 

Good questions. My guess is yes. Drew Brees had a pretty amazing three year run where he posted 40+ TD's in three consecutive years. He may have lead the league in both categories one or two of those years. 

 

Drew Brees, despite amazing numbers most of his career with the Saints, never won a league MVP. 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Total yards leader in NFL = Josh Allen 

 

Total TD leader in NFL = Josh Allen 

 

I haven't looked this up... but have the winners of both those stats EVER lost NFL MVP????

 

 

 

 

Drew Brees did in fact achieve this in 2012 with 44  total TDs (1 rushing) and 5,182 yards, of which a grand total of 5 yards were from rushing. 

 

In 2008 he lead the NFL in total yards and tied with Phillip Rivers for total TDs at 34

 

2011 was his best season with 5,562 total yards (first in the league and the season record until Mahomes broke it last year i think) and 47 total TD's (second in the league) with a 110 passer rating and 82 QBR. But Rodgers won the MVP with 48 total TD's, one more than Brees and a passer rating and QBR of 122 and 83 respectively. 

 

Allen so far is having a very Drew Brees like career with the monster numbers, no league MVP's  and limited team success. 

[Drew21PA]

Narrative is swinging back now 

 

everyone sees him putting it on the line and his back

 

buffalo wins out he may be up there against Purdy but I think Brock is playing out of his mind

 

 

 

josh does something like 4-0 and like 15 total tds more which is very easy for him to do

 

he will be a contender for it

[Kaenon]

7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:

Total yards leader in NFL = Josh Allen 

 

Total TD leader in NFL = Josh Allen 

 

I haven't looked this up... but have the winners of both those stats EVER lost NFL MVP????

 

yet....

 

Up to #5: 

AP MVP Winner

Dak Prescott

+150

Brock Purdy

+175

Lamar Jackson

+600

Jalen Hurts

+800

Josh Allen

+1400

 

 

That's how I throw too

Haha

[The Wiz]

The reality is that MVP doesn't mean "Most Valuable Player".  It means "the player with great stats and a bunch of wins"

 

How can someone account for 85% of the teams total TDs and not be the most valuable.  (and 9 of Hurts's TD's were 1 yard tush pushes).

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by The Wiz