PSE has been "Dissolved"

[Doc]

7 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

That's not true.  For example, Rams owner Stan Kroenke owns the Denver Nuggets, LA Rams, and Colorado Avalanche, the MLS Colorado Rapids and some Euro soccer teams.  He did not acquire all of these teams at the same time.  He's won championships with the Rams, Nuggets, and Avalanche, so I suspect that he has a good feel for putting good people in place when running a professional sports franchise.  Many other professional sports owners either own multiple teams, like Kroenke, or often sell one team (or their interest in it) and buy into others.  Sometimes it's majority owners and sometimes minority owners like Magic Johnson, who owned a small piece of the LA Lakers and later bought a minority share of the LA Dodgers.

 

I agree that most pro sports owners don't make their initial fortune in sports (it's usually real estate, oil, capital management, etc.), but some owners have experience in professional sports when they buy a team.  The Pegulas did not have any such experience.

 

So one owner out of 32?  You're basically making his point.  Never mind that Kroenke ripped his home state's football team from it and moved it to LA purely just to make more money.

[RoyBatty is alive]

In related news, Jessica Pegula just won her first match in the US Open!

[PromoTheRobot]

31 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

 

That's not true.  For example, Rams owner Stan Kroenke owns the Denver Nuggets, LA Rams, and Colorado Avalanche, the MLS Colorado Rapids and some Euro soccer teams.  He did not acquire all of these teams at the same time.  He's won championships with the Rams, Nuggets, and Avalanche, so I suspect that he has a good feel for putting good people in place when running a professional sports franchise.  Many other professional sports owners either own multiple teams, like Kroenke, or often sell one team (or their interest in it) and buy into others.  Sometimes it's majority owners and sometimes minority owners like Magic Johnson, who owned a small piece of the LA Lakers and later bought a minority share of the LA Dodgers.

 

I agree that most pro sports owners don't make their initial fortune in sports (it's usually real estate, oil, capital management, etc.), but some owners have experience in professional sports when they buy a team.  The Pegulas did not have any such experience.

 

I hope you aren't holding Stan Kroenke up as an example of what we want in Buffalo.

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

It's hard to miss the NHL playoffs for 12 years.  

 

 

Actually it's easier than ever. 32 teams, half get in. There was once a time when there were 21 teams and 16 got in. 

[LabattBlue]

Half the NHL teams make the playoffs each year, and yet the Sabres have missed 12 years in a row. There is no way around it, the Pegula era has been an all-time bad NHL disaster, and yes while they appear to be looking up, they are still in a drought until they make the playoffs.  This year they are putting all their eggs in the Devon Levi basket…he of a whopping 7 career NHL games. 

 

We will see. 

[msw2112]

28 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I hope you aren't holding Stan Kroenke up as an example of what we want in Buffalo.

 

It depends on what you mean by "example."  He has won titles in the NFL, NHL, and NBA, so sure, I'd sign up for some of that.  He's had some successful GMs, coaches and players on his rosters.

 

Personally, I think the guy is a scumbag.  He screwed the city of St. Louis to make a buck that he certainly didn't need.  His new stadium in LA was a big factor in luring the Chargers out of San Diego, screwing that fanbase too.

 

I've been on this board long enough that I should know better, but the only point I was trying to make is that the Pegulas were novices in the sports industry when they bought the Buffalo teams and they struggled out of the gate.   After gaining more experience, they have improved the quality of their hires and the quality of their teams.  The Sabres took a lot more trial and error than the Bills and it has been a long and painful ride for Sabres fans, but they seem to have figured it out.

 

I simply cited the example of Kronke as a guy with pro sports experience when he bought some of his teams.  How does that translate to me being a fan of Kronke or wanting someone like him for Buffalo?

Edited August 29, 2023 by msw2112

[msw2112]

52 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

So one owner out of 32?  You're basically making his point.  Never mind that Kroenke ripped his home state's football team from it and moved it to LA purely just to make more money.

 

There are numerous examples.  I cited two, Kronke (who I'm no fan of, but was simply making the point that he had pro sports experience when he bought some of his teams), and Magic Johnson (a minority owner in first the Lakers, and later, the Dodgers).  Jeremy Jacobs once owned the NBA franchise that is now the Sacramento Kings and now own the Boston Bruins.  Jerry Reinsdorf owned the Chicago White Sox and later bought the Bulls (and still owns both).  Ted Turner owned the Atlanta Braves, Hawks and Thrashers.  Ted Leonis owns the Washington Capitals and Wizards.  Paul Allen owns the Portland Trailblazers and Seattle Seahawks.  Wayne Huzienga owned the Florida Marlins and Miami Dolphins.  Tom Hicks owned the Dallas Stars and Texas Rangers.

 

So, no, I am not making his point.  There are clearly many more examples than "one owner out of 32."

 

Not all of these owners have had success with each team, but many have.  Kronke has titles in the NFL, NHL, and NBA.  The patient rebuild of the Avalanche was similar to the rebuild the Sabres are doing now.  Kronke may be a selfish prick and a money monger, but he did a good job being patient and letting his hockey people build a great team.  He also let his GM blow up the cap to bring in Matthew Stafford, OBJ, Jalen Ramsey and other big names (the complete opposite approach to the Avalanche rebuild) and got a Super Bowl for the Rams.  The Nuggets were something in the middle, but more similar to the Avalanche, building around Jokic and Murray with some strong role players and a great coach.  Magic has titles with the Lakers and Dodgers.  Jacobs has a title with the Bruins.  Reinsdorf has titles with the Bulls (6) and White Sox (1).  Turner has a title with the Braves, Leonis has one with the Capitals, Allen has one with the Seahawks, and it pains me to say it, but Hicks has one with the Stars (despite the obvious fact that Hull's skate was in the crease).

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by msw2112

[Jauronimo]

4 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

 

There are numerous examples.  I cited two, Kronke (who I'm no fan of, but was simply making the point that he had pro sports experience when he bought some of his teams), and Magic Johnson (a minority owner in first the Lakers, and later, the Dodgers).  Jeremy Jacobs once owned the NBA franchise that is now the Sacramento Kings and now own the Boston Bruins.  Jerry Reinsdorf owned the Chicago White Sox and later bought the Bulls (and still owns both).  Ted Turner owned the Atlanta Braves, Hawks and Thrashers.  Ted Leonis owns the Washington Capitals and Wizards.  Paul Allen owns the Portland Trailblazers and Seattle Seahawks.  Wayne Huzienga owned the Florida Marlins and Miami Dolphins.  Tom Hicks owned the Dallas Stars and Texas Rangers.

 

So, no, I am not making his point.

Here's the rest of the NFL and NHL.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_franchise_owners

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_franchise_owners

 

Nearly all are first time owners or they inherited teams from their parents.  "Novices to sports management" is a silly criticism to levy at an owner.  You make it sound like there is a traditional route to owning an NFL or NHL franchise that they skipped along the way.  Meanhwile there are owners who have been in the game for 6 decades who still make "novice" mistakes and meddle in affairs they should stay out of.

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

The success with the Bills, despite the early hiccups, is the greatest entry he could have.  The NFL is the premier sports league in the world.

 

But yes, I brought up selling 25% and having the minority owner run the day-to-day stuff.  Again no reason to completely sell the team now that they're finally good again.

 

 

Selling it gets him the entire windfall.  Why keep 25%?  So he can feel the thrill of a  minority owner? I would take the extra 200 million or so.

 

I give him credit for ultimately realizing going with Rex was a disaster and hiring Beane--the rest was on autopilot for Pegula.  The Sabres are what happens when he doesn't luck into a Beane. 

46 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I hope you aren't holding Stan Kroenke up as an example of what we want in Buffalo.

 

Actually it's easier than ever. 32 teams, half get in. There was once a time when there were 21 teams and 16 got in. 

 

 

my point.

[msw2112]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Here's the rest of the NFL and NHL.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NHL_franchise_owners

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_NFL_franchise_owners

 

Nearly all are first time owners or they inherited teams from their parents.  "Novices to sports management" is a silly criticism to levy at an owner.  You make it sound like there is a traditional route to owning an NFL or NHL franchise that they skipped along the way.  Meanhwile there are owners who have been in the game for 6 decades who still make "novice" mistakes and meddle in affairs they should stay out of.

 

You are entitled to your opinion, but I think you are reading way too deeply into my comments.  All I said was that the Pegulas lacked pro sports experience when they bought the teams and that's a fact.  I think they have improved with experience, and that's not a fact, but an opinion.  My opinion is based on where the Bills are today versus when the Pegulas bought the team and where the Sabres are today versus when the Pegulas bought that team.  

 

I also believe that in some cases, having experience can be helpful, but I agree with you that it's no guaranteed predictor of success.  Some owners have no experience and win in their first season.  Others own teams for decades and are mired in continual futility.

 

All this said, I enjoy a good debate as much as the next guy, but I do have a full-time job and have to get back to it.  Go Bills, Go Sabres, and F Stan Kronke.

[PromoTheRobot]

56 minutes ago, msw2112 said:

 

It depends on what you mean by "example."  He has won titles in the NFL, NHL, and NBA, so sure, I'd sign up for some of that.  He's had some successful GMs, coaches and players on his rosters.

 

Personally, I think the guy is a scumbag.  He screwed the city of St. Louis to make a buck that he certainly didn't need.  His new stadium in LA was a big factor in luring the Chargers out of San Diego, screwing that fanbase too.

 

I've been on this board long enough that I should know better, but the only point I was trying to make is that the Pegulas were novices in the sports industry when they bought the Buffalo teams and they struggled out of the gate.   After gaining more experience, they have improved the quality of their hires and the quality of their teams.  The Sabres took a lot more trial and error than the Bills and it has been a long and painful ride for Sabres fans, but they seem to have figured it out.

 

I simply cited the example of Kronke as a guy with pro sports experience when he bought some of his teams.  How does that translate to me being a fan of Kronke or wanting someone like him for Buffalo?

 

Listen. 98% of team owners are novices. No one comes in with a degree in owning a sports team. You are imagining a thing that doesn't really exist.  There's also a good deal of luck in winning titles.

[Doc]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

Selling it gets him the entire windfall.  Why keep 25%?  So he can feel the thrill of a  minority owner? I would take the extra 200 million or so.

 

I give him credit for ultimately realizing going with Rex was a disaster and hiring Beane--the rest was on autopilot for Pegula.  The Sabres are what happens when he doesn't luck into a Beane. 

 

 

my point.

 

He'll get a windfall whenever he sells and he'll get to enjoy a winning team, which he's been waiting for for 12 years.

 

He picked the right coach and GM with the Bills.  And with a QB like Josh, he'll be able to get good ones in the future if need be.

[Mr. WEO]

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

He'll get a windfall whenever he sells and he'll get to enjoy a winning team, which he's been waiting for for 12 years.

 

He picked the right coach and GM with the Bills.  And with a QB like Josh, he'll be able to get good ones in the future if need be.

 

What does he gain by surrendering  control to retain  25% of the team?  I asked you this above. 

 

Doesn't make a lot of sense.  Cash out and cheer on the team in your suite.  Not be on the hook for fixing up that ratty venue too.  

 

Where's the bump?

[Doc]

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

What does he gain by surrendering  control to retain  25% of the team?  I asked you this above. 

 

Doesn't make a lot of sense.  Cash out and cheer on the team in your suite.  Not be on the hook for fixing up that ratty venue too.  

 

Where's the bump?

 

Maybe money to fix up that ratty arena?  I don't know.  Again I said it didn't make sense to sell the team, now that they're starting to get good.  Selling 25% seemed like the most plausible explanation out of the "he did it to sell the team" scenarios.

[msw2112]

19 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Listen. 98% of team owners are novices. No one comes in with a degree in owning a sports team. You are imagining a thing that doesn't really exist.  There's also a good deal of luck in winning titles.

 

I'm listening.  But please, respectfully, don't tell me what I am or am not imagining.  It's condescending and inappropriate.  There is no question that the Pegulas had no experience when they bought the Sabres.  It's my opinion that through trial and error, and sure, some luck, they have learned from their mistakes and have a better idea of what they are looking for in GM and coaching hires.  They appear to now prefer hires who are thoughtful and measured in their approach, who do their homework, have a plan, and stick to it.  Beane, McDermott, Adams and Granato all fit this profile.  It's a major contrast to the likes of Rex Ryan, Russ Brandon, Tim Murray, Ralph Kreuger and others who are more impetuous, marketing-focused, headline-seeking types that they've hired in the past.

 

While there are college degrees in sports management, I would agree with you that most team owners don't have one (although some front office people probably do).  I know someone who has such a degree and he's worked for an NBA franchise and now works for a major college sports program.  He's not going to own a team anytime soon.  But I still think that many people learn from their experience and that some owners who have been in the sports business have a better feel for hiring good people to run their teams due to that experience.  That doesn't mean that there's no luck involved in professional sports success or that every sports team owner with past experience has benefitted from their experience, but to say that it's an imaginary concept is incorrect.

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Maybe money to fix up that ratty arena?  I don't know.  Again I said it didn't make sense to sell the team, now that they're starting to get good.  Selling 25% seemed like the most plausible explanation out of the "he did it to sell the team" scenarios.

makes no business sense. 
 

Why lose money on a refurb when you can cash out now and let the next guy put his money in that pit. 
 

owning an NFL team is the real cache. Adding the NFL is just a revenue drain in this case. 
 

he can still where meat his hat and jersey and stop by the locker room…

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

he can still where meat his hat and jersey and stop by the locker room…

Can you get Uhura to look at the universal translator?  I missed something there

[RiotAct]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

makes no business sense. 
 

Why lose money on a refurb when you can cash out now and let the next guy put his money in that pit. 
 

owning an NFL team is the real cache. Adding the NFL is just a revenue drain in this case. 
 

he can still where meat his hat and jersey and stop by the locker room…

mmmmm, meat.

[Doc]

Just now, Mr. WEO said:

makes no business sense. 
 

Why lose money on a refurb when you can cash out now and let the next guy put his money in that pit. 
 

owning an NFL team is the real cache. Adding the NFL is just a revenue drain in this case. 
 

he can still where meat his hat and jersey and stop by the locker room…

 

The time to cut bait was years ago.  He's not keeping the Sabres for business reasons.

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

On 8/28/2023 at 1:34 PM, Doc said:

I could see him doing that in the past, but the team is on the cusp of the playoffs this year.

 

Edit: Why the laughing emoji, Dillenger4?  Do I smell a wager?

Let’s think like a business person, and not a fan for a second.  Do you think someone would prefer to sell when a team is on the upswing? … sells for more money, etc?

 

Come on now!  
just sayin’

[FitzShowUsYourTitz]

On 8/28/2023 at 2:30 PM, Big Turk said:

 

Highly unlikely a person who has been "shopping" a team would undertake a project the size and scope of which the upgrades to Key Bank Center will likely entail, which are planned to take "years" to complete as much of the work will be done during the offseason, which is about to get a lot shorter starting next year.

 

I'll chalk this up in the bar talk coming from a friend of a friend of a cousin's sister's friend category

Come on man.  Have a lil ounce of business sense.  The answer to your question is yes.  
Lets remove a zero or two here:

Lets say your house is worth $900 million

OK, $900,000.  But it’s literally a worn out piece of *****. (You even have a 26 year old tv hanging in your main room!).

 

It’s time to sell… but you know you want to get the most bang for your buck so you realize if you put say put 10% into fixing up the joint…and prices continue to rise and rise and rise and the team gets good (not even scary good, just playoff good) a couple years from now it could be worth $1.4 million instead on $900k.  
This is what smart business people do.  
Come on now!

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Doc said:

 

The time to cut bait was years ago.  He's not keeping the Sabres for business reasons.

The valuation wasn’t there years ago”.  Obviously. 

 

He’s keeping them because he feels he’s really good at owning an NHL team?  It’s an ego thing? 

seems a delusion 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Mr. WEO

[PromoTheRobot]

2 hours ago, msw2112 said:

 

I'm listening.  But please, respectfully, don't tell me what I am or am not imagining.  It's condescending and inappropriate.  There is no question that the Pegulas had no experience when they bought the Sabres.  It's my opinion that through trial and error, and sure, some luck, they have learned from their mistakes and have a better idea of what they are looking for in GM and coaching hires.  They appear to now prefer hires who are thoughtful and measured in their approach, who do their homework, have a plan, and stick to it.  Beane, McDermott, Adams and Granato all fit this profile.  It's a major contrast to the likes of Rex Ryan, Russ Brandon, Tim Murray, Ralph Kreuger and others who are more impetuous, marketing-focused, headline-seeking types that they've hired in the past.

 

While there are college degrees in sports management, I would agree with you that most team owners don't have one (although some front office people probably do).  I know someone who has such a degree and he's worked for an NBA franchise and now works for a major college sports program.  He's not going to own a team anytime soon.  But I still think that many people learn from their experience and that some owners who have been in the sports business have a better feel for hiring good people to run their teams due to that experience.  That doesn't mean that there's no luck involved in professional sports success or that every sports team owner with past experience has benefitted from their experience, but to say that it's an imaginary concept is incorrect.

 

 

 

I'm not as "out for vengeance" as some fans are. Terry has a lifetime pass with me because without him, this team would be the Bon Jovi Bills playing in Toronto. Has he screwed up? Plenty. But both teams are trending up now. Realistically that's all you can ask for.

[Dr.Sack]

Sports Entertainment has become Sports Only. Field good teams and the entertainment will happen naturally. 

[Mr. WEO]

4 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I'm not as "out for vengeance" as some fans are. Terry has a lifetime pass with me because without him, this team would be the Bon Jovi Bills playing in Toronto. Has he screwed up? Plenty. But both teams are trending up now. Realistically that's all you can ask for.

 

people still believe this...crazy

[Doc]

3 hours ago, Fred Marchibroda said:

Let’s think like a business person, and not a fan for a second.  Do you think someone would prefer to sell when a team is on the upswing? … sells for more money, etc?

 

Come on now!  
just sayin’

 

What does "upswing" mean?  It means there is a higher end, potentially.  Like when they make the playoffs and people start returning to games.

 

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

The valuation wasn’t there years ago”.  Obviously. 

 

He’s keeping them because he feels he’s really good at owning an NHL team?  It’s an ego thing? 

seems a delusion 

 

Terry bought the team for $189M.  It doubled by 2018.  A 100% ROI in 10 years is pretty good.  And he could have gotten more from the group that eventually put a team in Seattle.

 

And no, he's keeping them because he loves hockey.  Again it's not a business for him.

 

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

people still believe this...crazy

 

Yeah because the downtown Toronto stadium study they commissioned wasn't a huge red flag...

Edited August 30, 2023 by Doc

[msw2112]

58 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I'm not as "out for vengeance" as some fans are. Terry has a lifetime pass with me because without him, this team would be the Bon Jovi Bills playing in Toronto. Has he screwed up? Plenty. But both teams are trending up now. Realistically that's all you can ask for.

 

I'm with you 100% on this.  The guy kept both of our beloved franchises in town and has even invested in the city itself.  He's spent freely on both teams (absent one tough offseason with the Sabres, which in hindsight, looks like it was the right move) and made many moves (both bad and good) to try and improve the teams.  And I'm no fan of fracking, but again, Terry gets a pass with me.

[Doc]

https://www.wgrz.com/article/sports/nhl/sabres/hamilton-take2-pse-dissolving-terry-pegula-as-sabres-president-doesnt-mean-the-team-is-for-salesports/71-a246e7ce-f908-4596-acb6-c00b705bc0e2

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

What does "upswing" mean?  It means there is a higher end, potentially.  Like when they make the playoffs and people start returning to games.

 

 

Terry bought the team for $189M.  It doubled by 2018.  A 100% ROI in 10 years is pretty good.  And he could have gotten more from the group that eventually put a team in Seattle.

 

And no, he's keeping them because he loves hockey.  Again it's not a business for him.

 

 

Yeah because the downtown Toronto stadium study they commissioned wasn't a huge red flag...

If it wasn’t a business for him he would not have dissolved his sports business company and named himself president of both teams.  He would sit back and pay some other people to do all of that, and simply bask in the glow of being an owner.

 

as for Toronto, this was some time ago to have been revealed as a scheme Trump put his pal Mike Caputo up to really pump up the Bon Jovi group as the villains who were going to be moving the team. He in turn created the phony “12th Man Thunder” Bills backer group, who in turn went around doing anti Bon Jovi stunts at bars etc that got regional and national press. 
 

Trump didn’t have the money to outbid  that group, so he hatched this scheme. Caputo recruited some locals who lived near the stadium.  Trump as the instigator was kept secret by the groups local leader, who admitted to really cranking up the anti-Toronto angle, the the point where the media attention got so loud that Texas AM sued the leader for copywriter infringement.  This went badly for A and M nationally so the leader of this group swindled 25 k out of the school—and then dialed up the “they will move the Bills to Toronto” volume to 11.

 

after Pegula got the nod, the group actually continued as a sort of charity with free tickets.

 

so, shockingly, it all turned out to be another shady business dirty pool scheme by the “strawberry blonde”. Go figure.  
 

this all came out years ago

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 8/28/2023 at 1:43 PM, DrDawkinstein said:

 

 

I dont think it's due to the team performance, as much as it is the demand of running an NFL team and not having Kim around to handle a lot of it anymore.

 

They have a far bigger investment (and payoff) with their NFL team. The Sabres were originally just a hobby for Terry. The Bills are a real business and serious investment.

 

He may feel he HAS to sell off the Sabres in order to give the Bills the proper attention.

 

 

 

i think Kim's health is the whole reason for this.

 

 

[Doc]

13 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

If it wasn’t a business for him he would not have dissolved his sports business company and named himself president of both teams.  He would sit back and pay some other people to do all of that, and simply bask in the glow of being an owner.

 

as for Toronto, this was some time ago to have been revealed as a scheme Trump put his pal Mike Caputo up to really pump up the Bon Jovi group as the villains who were going to be moving the team. He in turn created the phony “12th Man Thunder” Bills backer group, who in turn went around doing anti Bon Jovi stunts at bars etc that got regional and national press. 
 

Trump didn’t have the money to outbid  that group, so he hatched this scheme. Caputo recruited some locals who lived near the stadium.  Trump as the instigator was kept secret by the groups local leader, who admitted to really cranking up the anti-Toronto angle, the the point where the media attention got so loud that Texas AM sued the leader for copywriter infringement.  This went badly for A and M nationally so the leader of this group swindled 25 k out of the school—and then dialed up the “they will move the Bills to Toronto” volume to 11.

 

after Pegula got the nod, the group actually continued as a sort of charity with free tickets.

 

so, shockingly, it all turned out to be another shady business dirty pool scheme by the “strawberry blonde”. Go figure.  
 

this all came out years ago

 
You know what I mean when I say it’s not a business for him. He could have cashed out at anytime during the past 5 year with double his investment and no more losing money on the team. But as the article said, he’s not selling, just streamlining. 
 

And the the Toronto stadium study said all that needed to be said. The rest is just noise.  There was no need to take a chance.  And we got the best owner when all was said and done. 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Doc

[T master]

This decision may have something to do with Kim's situation . She was very involved in the running of both franchise & to have her not be there to over see things with in the business then Terry wanting to focus on her recovery more it kind of makes sense i guess to separate the 2 .

 

And if some of what a few here have said that they have been shopping the Sabre's for a minute that may be even more of a sign that the responsibility of both along with Terry wanting to take care of his family first makes total sense .

 

I think the Bills are the Pegs first priority after his family of course i hope they can find a place where they can feel comfortable and make it work for their family .

[May Day 10]

We will find out definitively in the next 2 years.  The lease is up in 2025.  The arena is going to require private and public investment.  I don't see pegula jumping through the hoops, investing in the arena (already announced a few things), and signing a lease if he was going to sell the team.

 

All indications from people in the know is that he is very happy owning the team.  My guess is that Jessica and her husband and terry's son Matthew will be more and more involved with both franchise over the next decade

[nucci]

Guessing they just want to focus on the Bills and Sabres and not the other stuff.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 
You know what I mean when I say it’s not a business for him. He could have cashed out at anytime during the past 5 year with double his investment and no more losing money on the team. But as the article said, he’s not selling, just streamlining. 
 

And the the Toronto stadium study said all that needed to be said. The rest is just noise.  There was no need to take a chance.  And we got the best owner when all was said and done. 

A study by bidders who live in Toronto?  So what?  Ralph’s ghost put a poison pill in the sales contract re: moving the team.
 

You were taken in by your boy again Do c.  The “noise” (moving to Toronto) WAS the scam.  It was orchestrated and worked to perfection.  All involved have admitted this.  

[EasternOHBillsFan]

On 8/29/2023 at 1:33 PM, PromoTheRobot said:

 

Oooh, you got me. Can't argue with that point.😂 Nothing ever changes, right? Once you suck, you suck. 

 

That was 9 years ago. Let me catch you up.

 

The Sabres have put together one of the best young rosters in the NHL. Hockey isn't like football. It takes a few years to build a team, especially though the draft. But take a minute and Google top NHL prospects and see how many Sabres show up on that list. These Sabres are akin to the 2019 Bills.

 

Then how do you explain how good they are now?

 

The Bills made the playoffs in 2018, a year BEFORE 2019, and Eichel was a "top prospect" who now plays for a Stanley Cup winner. I find it bizarre that you bring up the 2019 Buffalo Bills, as if the Sabres are now an automatic lock because they chose some top prospects. Beane and McDermott were already in place when the 2019 season started, and I just don't see EITHER of their equivalents in the Sabres organization.

Edited August 30, 2023 by EasternOHBillsFan

[PromoTheRobot]

49 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

The Bills made the playoffs in 2018, a year BEFORE 2019, and Eichel was a "top prospect" who now plays for a Stanley Cup winner. I find it bizarre that you bring up the 2019 Buffalo Bills, as if the Sabres are now an automatic lock because they chose some top prospects. Beane and McDermott were already in place when the 2019 season started, and I just don't see EITHER of their equivalents in the Sabres organization.

 

I compare them to the 2019 Bills because the Bills were not that good when they made the playoffs in 2017. 2019 was the start of the Josh Allen playoff run. And that's where the Sabres are.  And they didn't just "chose a couple of prospects." They have Tage Thompson, scored 48 goals last year, considered a top 10 center. Rasmus Dahlin, a top 5 defenseman. The Sabres were the only NHL team with FIVE players to score 25 or more goals. They were the THIRD highest scoring team last year. They were the 9th best power play. Their GM and coach; Kevyn Adams and Don Granato, are on par with Beane and McDermott. And this year they have one of the best young goalies in Devon Levi. Plus players like Alex Tuch (from the Eichel trade) Dylan Cozens, Jeff Skinner, JJ Peterka, Jack Quinn (injured in the offseason unfortunately) Viktor Olafsson. Oh, and the Athletic rated their prospect pipeline the best in the NHL.

 

It's pretty obvious you don't follow hockey or the Sabres very closely. But trust me, they are on the verge of being a dominant team.

Edited August 30, 2023 by PromoTheRobot

[nucci]

25 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I compare them to the 2019 Bills because the Bills were not that good when they made the playoffs in 2017. 2019 was the start of the Josh Allen playoff run. And that's where the Sabres are.  And they didn't just "chose a couple of prospects." They have Tage Thompson, scored 48 goals last year, considered a top 10 center. Rasmus Dahlin, a top 5 defenseman. The Sabres were the only NHL team with FIVE players to score 25 or more goals. They were the THIRD highest scoring team last year. They were the 9th best power play. Their GM and coach; Kevyn Adams and Don Granato, are on par with Beane and McDermott. And this year they have one of the best young goalies in Devon Levi. Plus players like Alex Tuch (from the Eichel trade) Dylan Cozens, Jeff Skinner, JJ Peterka, Jack Quinn (injured in the offseason unfortunately) Viktor Olafsson. Oh, and the Athletic rated their prospect pipeline the best in the NHL.

 

It's pretty obvious you don't follow hockey or the Sabres very closely. But trust me, they are on the verge of being a dominant team.

I don't think Granato gets enough credit for turning them in to a top goal scoring team. Fun to watch playing offense

[EasternOHBillsFan]

3 hours ago, PromoTheRobot said:

 

I compare them to the 2019 Bills because the Bills were not that good when they made the playoffs in 2017. 2019 was the start of the Josh Allen playoff run. And that's where the Sabres are.  And they didn't just "chose a couple of prospects." They have Tage Thompson, scored 48 goals last year, considered a top 10 center. Rasmus Dahlin, a top 5 defenseman. The Sabres were the only NHL team with FIVE players to score 25 or more goals. They were the THIRD highest scoring team last year. They were the 9th best power play. Their GM and coach; Kevyn Adams and Don Granato, are on par with Beane and McDermott. And this year they have one of the best young goalies in Devon Levi. Plus players like Alex Tuch (from the Eichel trade) Dylan Cozens, Jeff Skinner, JJ Peterka, Jack Quinn (injured in the offseason unfortunately) Viktor Olafsson. Oh, and the Athletic rated their prospect pipeline the best in the NHL.

 

It's pretty obvious you don't follow hockey or the Sabres very closely. But trust me, they are on the verge of being a dominant team.

 

Goal scoring is only A PART of success in the NHL... THE SABRES WERE RANKED 26TH IN GOALS ALLOWED and were MINUS 4 IN GOAL DIFFERENTIAL. Clearly you are cherry picking stats that fit your argument.

 

Insulting me isn't going to make you prove ANYTHING... teams on paper don't make the playoffs, teams who PLAY ACTUAL GAMES do. Results will prove you right or wrong, and so until those results come all you have is PREDICTIONS.

Edited August 30, 2023 by EasternOHBillsFan

[PromoTheRobot]

7 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Goal scoring is only A PART of success in the NHL... THE SABRES WERE RANKED 26TH IN GOALS ALLOWED and were MINUS 4 IN GOAL DIFFERENTIAL. Clearly you are cherry picking stats that fit your argument.

 

Insulting me isn't going to make you prove ANYTHING... teams on paper don't make the playoffs, teams who PLAY ACTUAL GAMES do. Results will prove you right or wrong, and so until those results come all you have is PREDICTIONS.

 

Speaking of cherry picking, you find the one negative and dismiss every point I made. Part of why they allowed so many goals was the freewheeling attack offense they implemented under Granato. In the end they missed a playoff berth by one point.

 

I think you're doing a pretty good job insulting yourself, displaying a laughable lack of knowledge about the Sabres, while tossing out stats without context.

[oldmanfan]

31 minutes ago, EasternOHBillsFan said:

 

Goal scoring is only A PART of success in the NHL... THE SABRES WERE RANKED 26TH IN GOALS ALLOWED and were MINUS 4 IN GOAL DIFFERENTIAL. Clearly you are cherry picking stats that fit your argument.

 

Insulting me isn't going to make you prove ANYTHING... teams on paper don't make the playoffs, teams who PLAY ACTUAL GAMES do. Results will prove you right or wrong, and so until those results come all you have is PREDICTIONS.

Yes, predictions are what you do when looking into the future.  We got a glimpse of the future for defense last year by the name of Levi.  And he looked pretty damn good.