Good Night / Bad Night - Pre-season game 1

[RenoNVBillsfan]

1) I thought Boogie was unblock-able for most of his straight up pass rush options. Looks like a completely different player this season. In fact, the entire front 4 looked to manhandle the Colts 1st half. 

 

2) Huge shoutout to L Murray. Downhill runner with above average receiving skills. Big back who just seems to love the contact. Nonetheless, a little wiggle room in the open field. An absolute must have for the 53.
 

3) K Allen looked generally lost as starting QB. I didn’t see anything that gave me confidence if he had to spell JA for any time. That pick 6 was mind numbing. Bad throw but should’ve never been thrown. Night n day with MB in as QB. Not even close, in my mind. Play him as #2 next week. 
 

4) Eli Anku, DL, unsung gem of the D in this game. Hard to make this 53 roster but he showed some chops. 
 

5) D Williams looks like a heat seeking missile. Great angles, solid tackler and didn’t seems to be out of position. Dude had a penetrating tfl at goal line. Should get some Day 1 reps. 
 

6) Time for Doyle and Boettger to consider other lines of work. Simply abused…often. Flip side, hand the 1st team RG to O’Torrence. Guy is going to be a pro bowler within 2 years. Mark it down. 😉

 

7) Shavers won’t make the 53 but suggested PS. His height alone could be a weapon to utilize in the RZ. K Johnson and Patmon (sp)  also a solid contributor. J Ingram, LB, also had a great 4th down stop. 

Edited August 14, 2023 by RenoNVBillsfan

[HappyDays]

1 hour ago, RenoNVBillsfan said:

Just watched Shakir make 2 spectacular catches in the 2nd qtr

 

Just to put this on the record... those catches were not "spectacular." They were good catches and good plays but ordinary at the NFL level. If he hadn't made one of those catches it would still have been considered a drop, they did not require a superhuman effort. I think Shakir's tiny arms make some ordinary catches LOOK spectacular.

[John from Riverside]

Dorian Williams is a player and we have to find a way to get him on the field
 

I know that they froze him out of the middle linebacker competition, but he gotta let the best players play

[HappyDays]

47 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

Heh.  Well.  I noticed Kincaid on the throw to Sherfield that was almost picked (think it was Kyle Allen's first pass, and he stared Sherfield down so intensely that if his eyes were lasers, Sherfield would be perforated.

 

That's Kincaid on the buffalo, basically knocking the Colt in coverage flat.

 

Is that legal or is that OPI?

 

 

That's why Kincaid was mostly unnoticeable in this game. The coaching staff intentionally gave him assignments that they know he is weak at. They already know what he can do as a pass catcher, they are just fine tuning the rest of his game. On the two plays shown above he didn't exactly dominate his man but he did enough to keep them out of the way. For a player that will almost exclusively be a slot receiver that is good enough IMO.

[PrimeTime101]

29 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

That's why Kincaid was mostly unnoticeable in this game. The coaching staff intentionally gave him assignments that they know he is weak at. They already know what he can do as a pass catcher, they are just fine tuning the rest of his game. On the two plays shown above he didn't exactly dominate his man but he did enough to keep them out of the way. For a player that will almost exclusively be a slot receiver that is good enough IMO.

Yea i mean. Against good defensive lines? I think he will do a great job chipping then going out to a rout. For a guy that was told he could not block well? seemed to do a damn good job.. hes not going to push like an ol'men but for the plays at hand? he did great!

[Alphadawg7]

17 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Kaiir Elam - Not so much that Elam was awful, he wasn't. He got called on one defensive PI that I thought was a little ticky tacky. There was a little grab and by the letter of course that is a penalty, but he left go before the ball arrived and in pre-season not sure that needed to be called. But Dane Jackson got the start and in his 1 series had an interception. They then brought Elam in for the second series with the 1s and while I think that means the competition is still live (contrast their approach at MLB and RG the other two big competition spots in camp) the fact that Elam then stayed on the field throughout the 2s run suggests to me that it is a competition he is behind in. They never switched Jackson back in which says to me they are happy they know what they have there. Unless Elam starts next week I think we can start to call time on this competition. 

 

Agree with most you wrote, except this.  Everywhere the positional battle had separation, they listed who was the starter and who was the backup.  In the few where competition was in play, they listed them all as the starter separated by slashes, and CB2 was one of those.  I doubt they would list Elam there if he wasn't legitimately competing for CB2 with Dane.  

 

Second, this Dane interception has been a bit exaggerated to be more of a play than it was.  Dane didn't make a play on the ball, it was an awful pass by a rookie QB that hit Dane right in the chest 10 yards past the target.  Pretty much any player on our roster could have intercepted that pass, it was thrown right to him like they were playing catch.  It would be different it was a play Dane made to go get the Int, but this was a free gift and that play alone isn't going to seal the deal. 

 

Now Dane may win the job outright, he has had a good camp, but that one play is pretty insignificant in terms of the final outcome of who enters week 1 as CB2.  And Elam was in the next series with the ones, that is a definite sign he is in this competition.  And Elam getting an extended run is no surprise either given they pretty much know who Dane is already and probably want to get to see Elam more.  

 

Personally, it's a good problem to have, both have had a good camp so far.  I also think its possible they handle CB2 more on a rotation based on scheme, matchups, etc as opposed to say CB1 where Tre is a constant.  Elam and Dane both have different strengths and weaknesses, so whoever wins the battle isn't necessarily going to dominate the snaps at CB2 the way Tre does.  

 

For me, this competition still seems very much ongoing and I suspect Elam will get the start in the 2nd game.  

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Ralonzo said:

 

Focused on the trenches for the first half rewatch. If not Torrence, then Eli Ankou was the best Bill on the field. For all the Poona Ford hype he got rekt 2 out of every 3 plays. Ankou was disruptive constantly.

 

Yea Ankou looked to have a good game. That doesn't surprise me at all.

32 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said:

 

Agree with most you wrote, except this.  Everywhere the positional battle had separation, they listed who was the starter and who was the backup.  In the few where competition was in play, they listed them all as the starter separated by slashes, and CB2 was one of those.  I doubt they would list Elam there if he wasn't legitimately competing for CB2 with Dane.  

 

Second, this Dane interception has been a bit exaggerated to be more of a play than it was.  Dane didn't make a play on the ball, it was an awful pass by a rookie QB that hit Dane right in the chest 10 yards past the target.  Pretty much any player on our roster could have intercepted that pass, it was thrown right to him like they were playing catch.  It would be different it was a play Dane made to go get the Int, but this was a free gift and that play alone isn't going to seal the deal. 

 

Now Dane may win the job outright, he has had a good camp, but that one play is pretty insignificant in terms of the final outcome of who enters week 1 as CB2.  And Elam was in the next series with the ones, that is a definite sign he is in this competition.  And Elam getting an extended run is no surprise either given they pretty much know who Dane is already and probably want to get to see Elam more.  

 

Personally, it's a good problem to have, both have had a good camp so far.  I also think its possible they handle CB2 more on a rotation based on scheme, matchups, etc as opposed to say CB1 where Tre is a constant.  Elam and Dane both have different strengths and weaknesses, so whoever wins the battle isn't necessarily going to dominate the snaps at CB2 the way Tre does.  

 

For me, this competition still seems very much ongoing and I suspect Elam will get the start in the 2nd game.  

 

The competition is ongoing. I say that in my post. But I also think Dane is ahead. How long they kept Elam in there says to me they think he needs the reps. Elam could start next week, but tbh I expect Dane to.

[eball]

I always enjoy this thread.  Hated to see Kyle Allen look so bad.  The Shakir drop was frustrating, and I know we’ve heard he has had some dropsies in camp, but a Buffalo News article this morning says he only had one drop on 17 targets last season — if that is accurate, does he have a drop problem?

 

Happy with the OL play in general.  Bye bye Boettger.

 

I can’t wait to see Cook in the regular season.  Murray was a super underrated late signing by Beane.

 

I don’t put too much stock into the WRs at the bottom of the roster…the guys who have been making plays against the twos and threes in camp made plays against the twos and threes on Saturday.  It would have been a story if they didn’t.

 

Thinking we will see a lot more from the starters this week.

 

[Fixxxer]

17 hours ago, BillsDad51 said:

Thanks for the write-up, Gunner. Appreciate it. I did see Spector stop an Indy run play stone dead on a 3rd and 1 (I think in 4th quarter.) On next play, Ingram blew up a run to turn the ball over on downs.

 

this is correct. He had a nice stop, like Dorian Williams on third and goal, unfortunately the Colts scored on the next play.

 

I was really impressed with the other Gator, LT Richard Gouragie, I would like to see him with the second unit against better competition. 

 

The other player that caught my eye was Marcell Ateman, that sideline grab on third and forever was sweet. Then Barkley found him on a crosser for a big gain. I likened him to a taller Gabe Davis. 

[Warriorspikes51]

22 hours ago, RichRiderBills said:

As of now, I think Shaver or Isabella is going to be that last WR slot. 

 

Shorterer behind the 8 ball. 

Except....Shorter played with the 2nd team offense and Shavers and Isabella played after he was done for the day 

6 minutes ago, Fixxxer said:

 

this is correct. He had a nice stop, like Dorian Williams on third and goal, unfortunately the Colts scored on the next play.

 

I was really impressed with the other Gator, LT Richard Gouragie, I would like to see him with the second unit against better competition. 

 

The other player that caught my eye was Marcell Ateman, that sideline grab on third and forever was sweet. Then Barkley found him on a crosser for a big gain. I likened him to a taller Gabe Davis. 

 

 
Yes, I hope this continues. We badly need a decent backup LT.  I'd personally like to see him get a look at RT too.  They likely won't do it because of the Spencer Brown favoritism....but having Torrence and Gouriage gel and grow together...best case is the right side of the line is locked down for years

[Ralonzo]

7 hours ago, RenoNVBillsfan said:

1) I thought Boogie was unblock-able for most of his straight up pass rush options. Looks like a completely different player this season. In fact, the entire front 4 looked to manhandle the Colts 1st half. 

 

3) K Allen looked generally lost as starting QB. I didn’t see anything that gave me confidence if he had to spell JA for any time. That pick 6 was mind numbing. Bad throw but should’ve never been thrown. Night n day with MB in as QB. Not even close, in my mind. Play him as #2 next week. 
 

4) Eli Anku, DL, unsung gem of the D in this game. Hard to make this 53 roster but he showed some chops. 
 

5) D Williams looks like a heat seeking missile. Great angles, solid tackler and didn’t seems to be out of position. Dude had a penetrating tfl at goal line. Should get some Day 1 reps. 
 

 

1) Boogie got stymied about half his reps, but Epenesa got stopped on every rep.

3) There were about 4 throws from Kyle that were forced into heavy coverage, whether it's a bad read or a one-read preseason call where "ball goes here, we need this play on tape" I dunno. I suspect former since Barkley didn't do any of that.

4) Based on yesterday Ankou was simply the Bills best 1-tech, better than Settle. Oliver is locked as a 3, and Jones at 1. Phillips is more of a 3. I wasn't impressed with Ford at all, he had one play where he actually anchored and got his hands inside the G and it's all over twitter.

5) Dorian looked worlds better in that game than Bernard ever has shown.

 

Edited August 14, 2023 by Ralonzo

[SoCal Deek]

For all of those nit picking specific players performances from the other night, keep in mind that’s a glorified practice game and the very first truly live action in many months for ALL of these guys. I can’t recall the player or the year, (I’m getting old and seasons blend together) but just a few years back the Bills backup QB literally stunk up the place in the Opener and then looked completely different the very next week. Was it Trubisky? With all that said, I was pleasantly surprised with what I saw against the Colts. The team looked organized and the roster looks deeper than I expected. So…what do we need to see? We need Torrence and Kincaid and possibly Williams to contribute and the Bills will have won the Draft. After that, get out of preseason with no injuries to the starting 22. 

[Fixxxer]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

Except....Shorter played with the 2nd team offense and Shavers and Isabella played after he was done for the day 

 

 
Yes, I hope this continues. We badly need a decent backup LT.  I'd personally like to see him get a look at RT too.  They likely won't do it because of the Spencer Brown favoritism....but having Torrence and Gouriage gel and grow together...best case is the right side of the line is locked down for years

 

I agree that Spencer Brown is upgradable, but I don't think is an easy transition going from LT to the right side if you never did it in college. I could be wrong but it would be best to have a natural LT backing up Dawkins.   

[SCBills]

I still want to see Kyle Allen get 1st team reps this preseason.   Those Barkley loft throws look great in preseason, but his arm and mobility is seriously lacking.  He has command of the offense and is very accurate, but in Buffalo.. with our wind and weather … yikes. 
 

At least Allen has some zip on his throws and a bit of mobility. 
 

Dorian Williams looks legit.  I don’t know what the staff will do with him this year, but he looks every bit of a future stud linebacker. 

[The Frankish Reich]

8 hours ago, RenoNVBillsfan said:

2) Huge shoutout to L Murray. Downhill runner with above average receiving skills. Big back who just seems to love the contact. Nonetheless, a little wiggle room in the open field. An absolute must have for the 53.

I think I watched at least some of every Broncos game last year (which has to do with where I live, not with entertainment value), and I came to the conclusion that the best player on a horrid Broncos offense last year was Latavius Murray. How he managed to grind out positive yardage week after week on that offense was kind of amazing. Aging RBs sometimes lose it fast, but last year he looked like the same guy that he was in his prime. I predict he plays a significant positive role this year.

[Green Lightning]

22 hours ago, Slippery Rubber Mats said:

As much as this forum has been growing a hate for Kyle Allen, he has a zip on his ball that Barkley couldn't dream of. Barkley throws ducks. Allen has NFL arm strength.

 

He needs to get his ***** together though

Good arm but slow eyes.

[Rockinon]

On 8/13/2023 at 8:34 AM, strive_for_five_guy said:

Gunner - Thanks for the write-up, has to miss the game here.  You don’t mention Evans at RB.  You see him making PS too, or just cut altogether?

 

And you bring up Boogie being traded.  I agree they should be trying to trade one of these edge guys if they can, since they all can’t make the squad.  Have you considered AJE being the trade candidate instead of Basham, given there’s an extra year on Basham’s rookie contract?  If the Bills don’t think they’ll be able to re-sign AJE next season, might as well try and get even a late round pick for him now.

I think Evans should get more reps. He looked like the best returner out of the bunch and held his own running the ball. If he can continue to look good as a return man, he might win a roster spot. All the other returners seemed pretty hesitant.  I am very worried about the return game since Hines got hurt.

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, eball said:

I always enjoy this thread.  Hated to see Kyle Allen look so bad.  The Shakir drop was frustrating, and I know we’ve heard he has had some dropsies in camp, but a Buffalo News article this morning says he only had one drop on 17 targets last season — if that is accurate, does he have a drop problem?

 

Happy with the OL play in general.  Bye bye Boettger.

 

I can’t wait to see Cook in the regular season.  Murray was a super underrated late signing by Beane.

 

I don’t put too much stock into the WRs at the bottom of the roster…the guys who have been making plays against the twos and threes in camp made plays against the twos and threes on Saturday.  It would have been a story if they didn’t.

 

Thinking we will see a lot more from the starters this week.

 

 

 

It's not accurate.    He had 3 drops on just 27 targets.  The 3rd being a huge one in the WC game that literally flipped the momentum from 3 score blowout in progress to a tie game 2 minutes later.    For reference Gabe Davis had 9 drops on 93 targets which was among the league's very worst.   So basically the same level of reliability as that.

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, eball said:

I always enjoy this thread.  Hated to see Kyle Allen look so bad.  The Shakir drop was frustrating, and I know we’ve heard he has had some dropsies in camp, but a Buffalo News article this morning says he only had one drop on 17 targets last season — if that is accurate, does he have a drop problem?

 

Pro football reference gives him 20 targets and 2 drops.  As has been said elsewhere, it's a small sample for statistics to mean much, but for the people who were OMG he's better than McKenzie why won't McDermott just PLAY his rookies? my guess is that the drop sample was larger in practice, just as has been commented on during training camp.

[Shaw66]

9 hours ago, Nephilim17 said:

Sorry, Shaw, but Milano is locked up through the end of 2026 and Morse is just locked up through the end of 2024. Plus, Morse's considerable concussion history makes him liable to stop playing at literally any game he takes another big shot to the head.

How do you figure losing Morse and Milano are equal?

First, we're all just speculating about what the reasons are for one thing or another, and it doesn't really matter one way or another.   In a month, real football will start and none of us will care who got first team reps in the first preseasons game. 

 

But I think you're all wrong about this.  McDermott's job in August his to prepare his team for the upcoming season, and in particular to prepare his team for the first game.   He is spending no time at all thinking about whose contract expires when or what he's going to do when one player or another leaves the team after the 2024 season.   Morse's and Milano's contracts are no consideration whatsoever in deciding on starters for the preseason game. 

 

Since his focus is the Jets in four weeks, McDermott wants his starters practicing together, except for his premier players.   At no other position did the Bills start the backup on Saturday to give him reps.  Why not start Dawkins' backup? 

 

Last season's performance made it clear that Bates still needs a lot of work at guard, so if he's the presumptive starter against the Jets, Bates is the guy who has to be on the field, practicing next to Morse and getting more reps.   Torrence getting that start means Torrence is the presumptive starter, which means he must have a lead in the positional battle.  Plus, if you want Bates to get first team reps, he needs them with Josh on the field, because that's the most critical relationship the center has. 

 

Even if the idea was that it's important to get Bates reps at center to back up Morse, then I am correct that it would be more important to give Williams first team reps behind Milano.   Over the last four seasons, Milano has missed twice as many starts as Morse, so there's not reason to assume that Morse has a greater chance of getting injured.   Williams has no NFL experience at the position; Bates has plenty of experience at center.

 

No, Torrence didn't get the start because the Bills thought it was important to give Bates center reps.   He got the start because, based on what he showed in camp, Torrence is better than Bates.  He may have only a marginal lead, but he has the lead.   And based on the reports, I'd say the lead widened on Saturday.  If he's moving tacklers out of the hole on running plays, that's a clear and important improvement over what Bates ever has been able to do in the run game.  And as I said, even if Torrence has some pass blocking issues, that doesn't disqualify him, because Bates's pass blocking was pretty poor last season, too.  

 

The happiest man on the team these days is Mitch Morse, because it appears that for the first time in his career in Buffalo, Morse will have a stout guard on either side of him.   That should make a big, big difference in the middle of the line.