Thanks coach McDermott… you’re one of the best coaches in the game.

[Shaw66]

4 hours ago, pocoboy said:

 

The Hamlin incident preyed upon the biggest weakness of this team: they are emotionally immature, at least in my opinion. If 13 Seconds doesn't happen, I think this team might be celebrating two in a row. But they still haven't fully recovered from that. Actually, the KC win mid-season may have served to hinder the recovery from that - regardless of what we make of the GB game that followed the bye, it's tough not to look at that Chiefs victory and wonder if they climaxed at that point. And perhaps they get everything back if the litany of disasters doesn't afflict the team - the elbow injury, the blizzard, Von's injury, Hamlin's event...and surely the Topps shooting and Kim's situation were all mixed in there too.

 

But for f***'s sake, I'm sick of being a town that has to drag out adversity after adversity (or perhaps excuse after excuse) why my teams have s*** the bed. Is the difference between a winner and a loser that the winner doesn't need to scribble down the events that kept them from the title? All my defensemen were injured...Hull's skate in the crease...Dickerson's big mouth...the helmet...Norwood...

 

At some point I want my team to say F*** it and do it. Just do it. I don't really want to discount the severity of things from last season, but if we're sitting here in February of 2024 talking about the distraction of the stadium project or someone getting injured or they played too many games in too few days or the London trip, I'm not going to be very patient with it. This team isn't new to this anymore. They've got to solve it. And that probably means the most daunting expectations on our QB that could be expected, and I just hope he's got it in him.

 

 

Interesting point about emotional insecurity.  I'm not sure winning 13 seconds would have changed a whole lot, but maybe.  

 

I hear you about being sick of it.  It's frustrating to have teams that just didn't do it.  I don't mind losing, but wide right, Music City, 13 seconds, and a few others are games that turned on one play, and it's a burden to keep living with those games and never actually make the play to win the game.  I feel that too. 

 

I wanted to comment particularly on your last paragraph.  I don't think that the explanation of what happened in 2023 is excuses - a lot happened, and the Bills simply couldn't win when the big games started.  Couldn't.  But I've found myself having the same thought you have, and I said it someplace earlier - for me the thought is "okay, you've had pretty much everything happen to you that could happen to you, year after year you take good shots at improving the roster, we all like the way the team is headed, blah, blah, blah.  Now, just go out win the games you have to win.  Whatever happens, win the games."   I've also found myself trying to imagine the mindset of the coaches and players.  I don't know what the mindset is - they're not telling us, but I'm guessing there's a team full of players who, like you, are saying, "**** it, let's do it.  Let's just do it."   It's long way from here to the playoffs, but I have the feeling that this time in the playoffs is going to be different.   I think this time this team is going into the playoffs thinking "no one is beating us.   We are going into every game with one intention.  To dominate."    I mean, think about how these guys feel about not having won a Super Bowl:   Hyde, Poyer, White, Milano, Allen, Diggs, Dawkins, Morse, Knox.  Add in Miller, because he really wanted it last year.  I think there are a lot of guys on the team who are ****ed off and are determined that nothing will stop them.

 

I enjoyed the NBA playoffs.  Talent wise, Miami had no business in the finals, but there aren't many teams that play with the heart and determination that they do.   Every game, it seemed, win or lose, they challenged to win it in the end.  And Denver showed the attitude that I, and I think you, are talking about.  Denver just decided that they were the best.  They just were determined to push themselves to be sure that their superiority won the games.   Last night, Miller kept telling them, "Take it.  Take it.  The game and the championship is yours.  You just have to take it."  

 

To win the Super Bowl, you have to fight like Miami.  And when you're a really good team, a potentially dominant team, you have to fight with the attitude that you're taking what you deserve.  Patriots under Belichick with Brady played that way. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by Shaw66

[newcam2012]

24 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

This is not true.  No one on here is just happy making the playoffs and a very good team.  Everyone one here wants a Super Bowl.

 

Some people just don't vent and B word/complain all the time.  Some people can remained composed, others can't.  

I beg to differ. There are so many people here who are more than happy with Bills playoff appearances and winning regular season records. They consider that an enjoyable and successful season. There is plenty of documentation. 

 

Of course, all Bills fans want a Super appearance and win. However, for many fans that would be icing on the cake a bonus sort of speak. 

 

Years of losing still looms in many of us. As a result, the Bills great regular seasons and playoff appearances are fantastic. Euphoric to many. Many fans bar is not a SB win. 

14 minutes ago, teef said:

i have no idea why that's become a narrative for a few on here.  it's lazy.  everyone on here wants a super bowl win and knows that the playoffs aren't enough.  

Disagree. Many are on record saying so. It's not SB or bust. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by newcam2012

[PBF81]

11 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I would have had no problem having Frank Reich replace McD. 

 

He has Buffalo ties and by all accounts his players respect and play hard for him. 

 

He is offensive minded and I believe a coaching change is more the welcome. 

 

Truthfully, I don't see much of a risk if the Bills went in that direction. 

 

IMO Reich would have been a better option when they hired McD, who had no history, an incredibly average dossier at coaching Ds, averaging patently average during his time at Carolina, and on the beneficial side of relatively easy schedules there too and with more talent than he has here.  

 

But notice that McD could also have likely hired Reich as OC too.  It supports my statements that he hasn't hired a single person yet as a coordinator that would upon that person's hire threaten his head-coaching tenure.  

 

Again, Daboll was awful as an OC elsewhere in 8 seasons, including his first two here.  Frasier was a failed HC and OK but far from fantastic much less superlative DC.  Dorsey, ... LOL so far.  So far he's proven to be a tantrum-laden tablet throwing emotionally unhinged OC (embellishing somewhat, LOL) whose "leadership" qualities I would question.  

 

 

11 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree with everything except "excuses aren't going to fly this time." There will be excuses or as one poster likes to say explanations. 

 

I didn't say that there wouldn't be the Excuse Team, there usually is.  I simply think that like when McD refused to give up on Peterman, and despite having Allen on the roster, that Pegula's hand will at least begin to be forced by fans & media like McD's was, nearly the point of embarrassment.  

 

And again, maybe we win it all this season.  I'd be surprise, but not shocked.  The talent is there.  What's holding us up is our playoff performances and coaching.  HINT:  The two are directly related.  LOL  But if it doesn't happen, I don't expect that the narrative fallout is going to be favorable towards McBeane.  I mean how many years can you go on blaming a lack of talent, but not the GM, and a lack of playoff performances while possessive of Allen while not blaming the coach.  

 

I guess we may find out.  LOL 

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

16 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

To start, I was being light.  Secondly, it continues on a comment he made about himself in another thread.  

 

The comment was to him, he knows what I'm talking about, it wasn't mean as an insult, I think he realizes that.  

 

Context is key here.  Always good not to assume things like that.  

 

As to the argument, LOL, I don't think that argument is lost.  I think it's beyond ridiculous to begin with on his end.  

 

Do you agree with his position?  I'll sum it up for you. 

 

He directly called into question Reich's judgement in supporting Wentz in countering my implication that Reich would have been a better OC or HC here than either Daboll or McD.  

 

I then brought into the conversation McD's unwavering and quite frankly steadfast judgement that Peterman gave us the best chance of winning.  Keep in mind that McD was openly mocked for that far and wide, including here.  

 

So to you support his argument, that you claim I lost?  
 

That namely Reich's judgement was worse than McD's in those two stated cases?   

 

Simple Y/N question, no explanations needed.  

 

?? 

 

 

 

same question to you.  

 

No one new Wentz would be as bad as he was and the thought was, Wentz would rebound. No one had a crystal Ball at the time. But Judging a HC over A decision is just a waste of time... FOR ME.. you want to argue that? it is on you. I chose not to. 

 

As you know I have been against personal attacks for a long time.. It is what I saw. nothing personal again.. i just wish it would simmer down. 

[PBF81]

16 minutes ago, teef said:

i have no idea why that's become a narrative for a few on here.  it's lazy.  everyone on here wants a super bowl win and knows that the playoffs aren't enough.  

 

That's simply not true.  If you really mean everyone, numerous people here have stated that as long as we play competitively and "are in it," and that the games are entertaining, then none of us have anything to gripe about and have plainly stated that they're happy. 

 

I agree that most people fits your description, but not everyone.  

 

But since you've said that, and since I agree, allow me to ask, after 7 years of coaching, and 6 years of management, at what point, assuming things don't change/improve this season, do you say enough is enough, McD has served a purpose, but it's clear that he's not the one to get us to the promised land with Allen at QB?  

 

We have yet to get a straight answer on that from McD apologists.  

 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

8 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I beg to differ. There are so many people here who are more than happy with Bills playoff appearances and winning regular season records. They consider that an enjoyable and successful season. There is plenty of documentation. 

 

Of course, all Bills fans want a Super appearance and win. However, for many fans that would be icing on the cake a bonus sort of speak. 

 

Years of losing still looks in many of us. As a result, the Bills great regular seasons and playoff appearances are fantastic. Euphoric to many. Many fans bar is not a SB win. 

Disagree. Many are on record saying so. It's not SB or bust. 

 

Show me one quote on here where someone says "I don't care about a Super Bowl win."  If there is plenty of documentation, you should easily find a TON of this.

If someone spends a lot of time on this board like many of us do, we are emotionally invested in this team and want a Super Bowl badly.

It seems you think that if they don't come on this board, B word/complain and argue with everyone who keeps a positive mindset on this organization over the last few years...they don't want a Super Bowl.  Bitching and complaining and woe is me means you care more?

 

You can suffer heartbreak and then let it go...many people can do it.  Yeah we didn't reach our goal but lets try it again next year like 31 other teams do.

This is the adversity of being a fan.  Some can handle it, some can't.  

[newcam2012]

3 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

IMO Reich would have been a better option when they hired McD, who had no history, an incredibly average dossier at coaching Ds, averaging patently average during his time at Carolina, and on the beneficial side of relatively easy schedules there too and with more talent than he has here.  

 

But notice that McD could also have likely hired Reich as OC too.  It supports my statements that he hasn't hired a single person yet as a coordinator that would upon that person's hire threaten his head-coaching tenure.  

 

Again, Daboll was awful as an OC elsewhere in 8 seasons, including his first two here.  Frasier was a failed HC and OK but far from fantastic much less superlative DC.  Dorsey, ... LOL so far.  So far he's proven to be a tantrum-laden tablet throwing emotionally unhinged OC (embellishing somewhat, LOL) whose "leadership" qualities I would question.  

 

 

 

I didn't say that there wouldn't be the Excuse Team, there usually is.  I simply think that like when McD refused to give up on Peterman, and despite having Allen on the roster, that Pegula's hand will at least begin to be forced by fans & media like McD's was, nearly the point of embarrassment.  

 

And again, maybe we win it all this season.  I'd be surprise, but not shocked.  The talent is there.  What's holding us up is our playoff performances and coaching.  HINT:  The two are directly related.  LOL  But if it doesn't happen, I don't expect that the narrative fallout is going to be favorable towards McBeane.  I mean how many years can you go on blaming a lack of talent, but not the GM, and a lack of playoff performances while possessive of Allen while not blaming the coach.  

 

I guess we may find out.  LOL 

 

 

It's unknown whether Reich would have been a better choice than McD. 

 

Certainly, McD and Beane have built a winning team in Buffalo. Football during their reign hasn't sucked watching games. It's been really fun and entertaining. 

 

Making consecutive playoff appearences is fantastic. Buffalo attracting positive media attention is almost unheard of. 

 

Quality players on the open market wanting to play for Buffalo. Players taking a Buffalo discount. 

 

In short, there is plenty to like about Beane and McD. That's coming from one of their toughest critics.

 

The choice to hire them has paid dividends. However, the teams goal hasn't been met. A SB appearence and or win isn't an unreasonable goal. In fact, i'd argue that the team has woefully failed the last two years. It was absolutely there for the taking. I truthfully believe coaching was the fundamental reason why the Bills didn't move forward.

 

The regime probably deserves a chance to get it right. Imho, I've seen enough and I would welcome a change. 

 

Just my two cents. 

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

No one new Wentz would be as bad as he was and the thought was, Wentz would rebound. No one had a crystal Ball at the time. But Judging a HC over A decision is just a waste of time... FOR ME.. you want to argue that? it is on you. I chose not to. 

 

As you know I have been against personal attacks for a long time.. It is what I saw. nothing personal again.. i just wish it would simmer down. 

 

I didn't argue it, GB did.  

 

I just took him up on his opening argument.  

 

As to the "personal attack," I think it's a reach here given the context.  Besides, I was interacting with GB.  I have to think, that given the context that he's aware of, he wouldn't consider it a personal attack either.   He and I go at it all the time.  Neither of us has hard feelings.  People agreeing that it was an "attack" outside of its context doesn't make it a "personal attack."  

 

I always try to address the argument, not the poster.  I go out of my way to choose words that I think do that.  Sometimes my attempts at humor and ight-heartedness are misconstrued, for which I've apologized at times, but which were not intended to be offensive, but I can tell you with certainty that I deliberately attempt not to "attack" a poster, only their arguments, and I don't think I've ever used ad hominems.  

 

I do sense that people get very emotionally defensive once they've been argued/debated into a corner or even if the argument becomes difficult from their pitch.  But that's on them.  If you're going to debate/argue/offer-opinions, then be ready to be countered.  Also, try to be objective.  There's quite a bit of subjectivity in many arguments here.  But isn't that what the place is all about?  Free, open, and civil discussion, even if it's substantially argumentative.  What fun would it be if everyone came on here and it was like Chip-n-Dale of Warner Brothers fame, each constantly agreeing with one another and offering platitudes to each other.  How boring.  LOL  

 

 

 

[teef]

22 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

 

Disagree. Many are on record saying so. It's not SB or bust. 

posters have said they're ok just going to the playoffs and never a super bowl?  show me.  i think you're completely misrepresenting what someone said, (not saying on purpose).  

[GoBills808]

Just now, teef said:

posters have said they're ok just going to the playoffs and never a super bowl?  show me.  i think you're completely misrepresenting what someone said, (not saying on purpose).  

They kind of have or at least to that effect tbh

[PBF81]

1 minute ago, newcam2012 said:

It's unknown whether Reich would have been a better choice than McD. 

 

Certainly, McD and Beane have built a winning team in Buffalo. Football during their reign hasn't sucked watching games. It's been really fun and entertaining. 

 

Making consecutive playoff appearences is fantastic. Buffalo attracting positive media attention is almost unheard of. 

 

Quality players on the open market wanting to play for Buffalo. Players taking a Buffalo discount. 

 

In short, there is plenty to like about Beane and McD. That's coming from one of their toughest critics.

 

The choice to hire them has paid dividends. However, the teams goal hasn't been met. A SB appearence and or win isn't an unreasonable goal. In fact, i'd argue that the team has woefully failed the last two years. It was absolutely there for the taking. I truthfully believe coaching was the fundamental reason why the Bills didn't move forward.

 

The regime probably deserves a chance to get it right. Imho, I've seen enough and I would welcome a change. 

 

Just my two cents. 

 

All of that centers around Allen.  Also, that's why I stated that it was MO that Reich would have been better.  

 

But what is certain is that Daboll's credentials were low-end.  Frasier's questionable.  Dorsey's all but nonexistent as an internal promotion.  

 

We also know that McD could have reached out to Reich as his OC, but did not.  Comparing Reich's OC credentials to Daboll's, there's little question as to whose were better.  

 

A lot of what you said above could have been accomplished with many HCs.  I mean it's a real real real reach to suggest that most other HCs would have had this offense with Allen running at 10th in the league or something.  IMO about the worst that any HC would do with our Offense if 5th, maybe 6th in the league with Allen.  

 

 

4 minutes ago, teef said:

posters have said they're ok just going to the playoffs and never a super bowl?  show me.  i think you're completely misrepresenting what someone said, (not saying on purpose).  

 

No one has time going back thru thousands of posts.  But I've engaged with them and we've agreed to disagree on that point.  

 

It's not many, but they are in here.  

 

Post a poll, find out.  In fact I'm pretty sure that someone has, so go back and look for those and you'll have your proof.  Otherwise post another one.  LOL  Hell, it's the offseason.  

 

 

[McBean]

On 6/11/2023 at 9:41 AM, Dopey said:

From 20 year losers to regular division winners and SB contenders. 
Here ya go newcam2012, PBF81 and the like, flame away. I noticed a trend a while ago here. Any attempt at a positive thread MUST be shot down by negative Nancies. Hey Einstein, are the Bengals still better than the Bills? Thing is we’ve read your negative crap already. We know! We get it! You guys make this board a ***** place IMO. Go get laid or something. Life is awesome and it sucks that people like me stay away from this place to come  back a few weeks later and the same vocal group is writing the same 💩 as weeks ago. From what I read, Allen is the only good thing we have going for us. Last thought: you guys suck and it feels like you’re taking this site with you. Enjoy. 

[pocoboy]

54 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I feel your frustration as well. 

 

Others will say be happy they are making the playoffs and are a very good team. 

 

Not sure why both can't be true. 

 

That's my frustration with what seems to be a section of the fanbase that spends more time on gameday with their face planted in the ground vs. glued to the action. Losing makes the tailgate a lot more fun, it seems.

[teef]

7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

They kind of have or at least to that effect tbh

i've interpreted it in that people are happy with a competitive team because they go to the playoffs which give the chance at a super bowl.  i feel that way as well.  you have to be in it to win it, but it's certainly not the end game.  i don't think there's a single person on here that would be ok with this staff never getting to the big game and only the playoffs.  

[GoBills808]

Just now, teef said:

i've interpreted it in that people are happy with a competitive team because they go to the playoffs which give the chance at a super bowl.  i feel that way as well.  you have to be in it to win it, but it's certainly not the end game.  i don't think there's a single person on here that would be ok with this staff never getting to the big game and only the playoffs.  

Hope not but I would wager if it meant everybody gets to keep their jobs they'd probably be ok w it

[teef]

6 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

 

 

 

No one has time going back thru thousands of posts.  But I've engaged with them and we've agreed to disagree on that point.  

 

It's not many, but they are in here.  

 

Post a poll, find out.  In fact I'm pretty sure that someone has, so go back and look for those and you'll have your proof.  Otherwise post another one.  LOL  Hell, it's the offseason.  

 

 

nah.  it's wasn't meant that way, and at the end of the day it really doesn't matter.  

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Hope not but I would wager if it meant everybody gets to keep their jobs they'd probably be ok w it

even that will run its course.  i really like this staff, but if they exit the playoffs in some absurd dramatic manner, that will come to an end.  it would have to as some point.  

[Shaw66]

26 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I beg to differ. There are so many people here who are more than happy with Bills playoff appearances and winning regular season records. They consider that an enjoyable and successful season. There is plenty of documentation. 

 

 

I think you're wrong about this.   With very few exceptions, everyone here is living with the dream.  Everyone is in it for the Super Bowl.  

 

The difference between people here relates to how they react to the disappointment of not making it.  Some people have something that is akin to anger.   They want to blame someone, and they want to insist that change happens so that they, the fans, can have what they want.   Other people react differently.  They're response is more akin to "that's too bad, let's try again next year."

 

Interestingly, those two points of view are fundamental to two different motivational philosophies, both of which have had success.   The anger approach is the leadership approach that George Patton followed, and plenty of coaches do - put the fear of God into them, demand that the players not fail, etc.   Parcells was in that camp, Lombardi was in that camp, plenty of successful coaches have been there. 

 

McDermott believes in the growth mindset.   He believes that the best way to achieve a goal is to work at it, to remain personally committed to it, and to surround yourself with other people with the same attitude.  It's much more of a "that's too bad, let's try again" approach.  Pete Carroll is one of those.   These coaches are demanding, but they are demanding about the behavior of the players, not about the outcome.  Players are not bad people because they didn't win; however, if they didn't try, every day, that's a different story.  

 

Now, we can argue the pros and cons of those two approaches, for fans and for team building, but whichever side you're on, the objective is the same - win the Lombardi.  No one is satisfied with less.   It's just that people respond differently to failing to reach the goal.  When the Bills win the Lombardi, everyone will celebrate together, and it will be impossible to tell one kind of fan from another. 

[newcam2012]

15 minutes ago, teef said:

posters have said they're ok just going to the playoffs and never a super bowl?  show me.  i think you're completely misrepresenting what someone said, (not saying on purpose).  

People are misrepresenting what I said or I didn't make myself clear. Let me try again. 

 

I'm not saying fans here don't want a SB appearence or SB win. Of course all fans do! 

 

I'm saying several fans here are satisfied with great regular seasons and playoff appearences. They enjoy the winning and care entertained. Winning it all is seen as a bonus. They don't see losing early in the playoffs as a poor season, an unsuccessful season, or a disappointing season. 

 

For many, they are more than satisfied with the way the team has made 6 straight playoff appearances and multiple divisiob titles. The bar isn't a SB win. It's a bonus not a requirement or an expectation. Sure they may be disappointed but un the end they view the  seasons under McD and Beane a success. Depends on how you see things? 

 

Personally, I don't see the last three seasons are successful. They had legit chances to go further especially the last two years. I believe they should have had made a SB appearence by now. Even a ring was a real possibility. 

 

Hope that clarifies my point of view. 

[teef]

7 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

People are misrepresenting what I said or I didn't make myself clear. Let me try again. 

 

I'm not saying fans here don't want a SB appearence or SB win. Of course all fans do! 

 

I'm saying several fans here are satisfied with great regular seasons and playoff appearences. They enjoy the winning and care entertained. Winning it all is seen as a bonus. They don't see losing early in the playoffs as a poor season, an unsuccessful season, or a disappointing season. 

 

For many, they are more than satisfied with the way the team has made 6 straight playoff appearances and multiple divisiob titles. The bar isn't a SB win. It's a bonus not a requirement or an expectation. Sure they may be disappointed but un the end they view the  seasons under McD and Beane a success. Depends on how you see things? 

 

Personally, I don't see the last three seasons are successful. They had legit chances to go further especially the last two years. I believe they should have had made a SB appearence by now. Even a ring was a real possibility. 

 

Hope that clarifies my point of view. 

i get it, but i'm still not sure any fans consider and early exit in the playoffs as successful.  i certainly can't speak for everyone, but evaluating the season comes in two parts, (obviously the regular and post season).  the bills had a good regular season last year, (as strange as it was) because they won 13 games.  as a fan i enjoyed that time and the regular season was fun.  once the playoffs start, and new season begins, and what happened during the regular season goes out the window.  i can enjoy the regular season and hate was happened after that.  it's still and unsuccessful season, but let's not act like there's nothing to be positive about.  

 

the post season will define this staff.  they have to shows major changes this year and next.  i really don't think terry will just let this keep happening in the playoffs with no recourse like some think.

[Jay_Fixit]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

i get it, but i'm still not sure any fans consider and early exit in the playoffs as successful.  i certainly can't speak for everyone, but evaluating the season comes in two parts, (obviously the regular and post season).  the bills had a good regular season last year, (as strange as it was) because they won 13 games.  as a fan i enjoyed that time and the regular season was fun.  once the playoffs start, and new season begins, and what happened during the regular season goes out the window.  i can enjoy the regular season and hate was happened after that.  it's still and unsuccessful season, but let's not act like there's nothing to be positive about.  

 

the post season will define this staff.  they have to shows major changes this year and next.  i really don't think terry will just let this keep happening in the playoffs with no recourse like some think.

You pre-wrote this in your iPhone notes didn’t you.

[teef]

Just now, Jay_Fixit said:

You pre-wrote this in your iPhone notes didn’t you.

i'm just using chatgpt for most things in my life now.

[newcam2012]

2 minutes ago, teef said:

i get it, but i'm still not sure any fans consider and early exit in the playoffs as successful.  i certainly can't speak for everyone, but evaluating the season comes in two parts, (obviously the regular and post season).  the bills had a good regular season last year, (as strange as it was) because they won 13 games.  as a fan i enjoyed that time and the regular season was fun.  once the playoffs start, and new season begins, and what happened during the regular season goes out the window.  i can enjoy the regular season and hate was happened after that.  it's still and unsuccessful season, but let's not act like there's nothing to be positive about.  

 

the post season will define this staff.  they have to shows major changes this year and next.  i really don't think terry will just let this keep happening in the playoffs with no recourse like some think.

Agree 100% about regular season vs post season. 

 

McD is 4-5 in the post season. The last two post season were 13 seconds and the Cinci game. 

 

You can do the math.

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

BTW, you are venturing into homer status here on this one.  

 

 

 

 

I am not because I never said anything defending either McDermott or Peterman. That was ALL you projecting. I said I would not want Frank Reich as Head Coach of the Bills. A man who pounded the table for a dreadful QB and encouraged his GM to sign two other washed out vets - giving up valuable draft picks in the process - rather than taking serious stock of where the team is and putting the organisational focus on securing a long term answer to the position. 

 

It wouldn't matter who was the Bills coach, or who was the Bills QB.... a man who takes that approach to team building in 2023 is not a guy I'd want as my Head Coach. 

[teef]

3 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

Agree 100% about regular season vs post season. 

 

McD is 4-5 in the post season. The last two post season were 13 seconds and the Cinci game. 

 

You can do the math.

this may sound strange, but i had less of a problem with 13 seconds than i did the loss last year.  13 seconds was a heart breaker, but it made me very excited for the future.  last year was one of the biggest pieces of ***** i've seen from this team in a very long time.

[GunnerBill]

58 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

No one new Wentz would be as bad as he was and the thought was, Wentz would rebound. No one had a crystal Ball at the time. But Judging a HC over A decision is just a waste of time... FOR ME.. you want to argue that? it is on you. I chose not to. 

 

As you know I have been against personal attacks for a long time.. It is what I saw. nothing personal again.. i just wish it would simmer down. 

 

Actually I said at the time Wentz would suck. His final year of film in Philly was so freaking bad. 

[PBF81]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

I am not because I never said anything defending either McDermott or Peterman. That was ALL you projecting. I said I would not want Frank Reich as Head Coach of the Bills. A man who pounded the table for a dreadful QB and encouraged his GM to sign two other washed out vets - giving up valuable draft picks in the process - rather than taking serious stock of where the team is and putting the organisational focus on securing a long term answer to the position. 

 

It wouldn't matter who was the Bills coach, or who was the Bills QB.... a man who takes that approach to team building in 2023 is not a guy I'd want as my Head Coach. 

 

Well, if we're going to be honest here, I'm not sure what McBeane have built other than Allen.  

 

Think about it.  Our WRs have been inadequate after every season.  

Our OL has been average on good days, perpetually, this season awaiting a positive change from McGovern/Torrence, but if they aren't what's been billed ...

Our TE has been Knox to date, below-average otherwise, and more than not have been critical of Knox and his inconsistency issues and dropped balls too.  

Our RBs, LOL, as I've pointed out, are the least utilized in the entire league.  The entire league.   

 

None of that is building anything.  It's over-relying upon Allen, entirely.  

 

So offensively, apart from Allen, what has McD built?    ... and since the focal point of our team is Allen, it revolves around our offense, particularly since our Defense fails in the playoffs.  

 

BTW, I realize we're going to disagree on these things.  LOL  Please don't take any of this with any hostile intent.   

 

 

[newcam2012]

5 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, if we're going to be honest here, I'm not sure what McBeane have built other than Allen.  

 

Think about it.  Our WRs have been inadequate after every season.  

Our OL has been average on good days, perpetually, this season awaiting a positive change from McGovern/Torrence, but if they aren't what's been billed ...

Our TE has been Knox to date, below-average otherwise, and more than not have been critical of Knox and his inconsistency issues and dropped balls too.  

Our RBs, LOL, as I've pointed out, are the least utilized in the entire league.  The entire league.   

 

None of that is building anything.  It's over-relying upon Allen, entirely.  

 

So offensively, apart from Allen, what has McD built?    ... and since the focal point of our team is Allen, it revolves around our offense, particularly since our Defense fails in the playoffs.  

 

BTW, I realize we're going to disagree on these things.  LOL  Please don't take any of this with any hostile intent.   

 

 

I don't disagree at all. 

[Einstein]

 

 

[PrimeTime101]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Actually I said at the time Wentz would suck. His final year of film in Philly was so freaking bad. 

I got that Medal waiting for you at my house! lol.

 

You are usually spot on. This is why, usually I will not argue a point with you lol

[CountDorkula]

https://twitter.com/cmdedominicis/status/1668693008579960851?s=46&t=aPpesQ9OFgU8cA3wnTdNeA

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Well, if we're going to be honest here, I'm not sure what McBeane have built other than Allen.  

 

Think about it.  Our WRs have been inadequate after every season.  

Our OL has been average on good days, perpetually, this season awaiting a positive change from McGovern/Torrence, but if they aren't what's been billed ...

Our TE has been Knox to date, below-average otherwise, and more than not have been critical of Knox and his inconsistency issues and dropped balls too.  

Our RBs, LOL, as I've pointed out, are the least utilized in the entire league.  The entire league.   

 

None of that is building anything.  It's over-relying upon Allen, entirely.  

 

So offensively, apart from Allen, what has McD built?    ... and since the focal point of our team is Allen, it revolves around our offense, particularly since our Defense fails in the playoffs.  

 

BTW, I realize we're going to disagree on these things.  LOL  Please don't take any of this with any hostile intent.   

 

 

 

Other than Knox (who was inconsistent and dropped balls the first two years but has been very effective and underused by Allen and the OC the last two years)... and the receiving corps and OL in 2020 (Diggs, Gabe, Brown, Beas and the best OL of Josh's career albeit in empty stadiums) I don't particularly disagree.

 

But my point was NEVER about McDermott or Beane. It was about Frank Reich. What we disagree on is whether Frank Reich is a good football coach. And I say a man who bangs the table for his GM to use draft capital on Wentz and a washed up Matt Ryan in this era of NFL football isn't a guy who really gets where the league is going. I wasn't particularly impressed with his work as a Head Coach, his teams regularly lost games to teams they were more talented than that cost them in the final standings. I just wouldn't hire him. Even if the Bills had a vacancy I wouldn't hire him. 

Edited June 13, 2023 by GunnerBill

[PBF81]

16 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Other than Knox (who was inconsistent and dropped balls the first two years but has been very effective and underused by Allen and the OC the last two years)... and the receiving corps and OL in 2020 (Diggs, Gabe, Brown, Beas and the best OL of Josh's career albeit in empty stadiums) I don't particularly disagree.

 

But my point was NEVER about McDermott or Beane. It was about Frank Reich. What we disagree on is whether Frank Reich is a good football coach. And I say a man who bangs the table for his GM to use draft capital on Wentz and a washed up Matt Ryan in this era of NFL football isn't a guy who really gets where the league is going. I wasn't particularly impressed with his work as a Head Coach, his teams regularly lost games to teams they were more talented than that cost them in the final standings. I just wouldn't hire him. Even if the Bills had a vacancy I wouldn't hire him. 

 

OK, but I never said he was a great coach, I said he'd be better than McD at managing the offense, and since offense is this team's strength, and given the several things that I said were wrong with it, that weren't wrong with Reich's offenses, IMO the Offense here would be more balanced and notably better as a result, generally speaking, than it's been under McD.  

 

Again, Reich's largely had siht to work with.  It's interesting, because when I discuss things of this nature with people here, when the talent issue aligns with their side, they place it in a prominent position in the debate.  But when the opposite is true, it's entirely dismissed out of hand.  

 

Discounting last season, for him to have put forth an average 10th ranked scoring O in the four seasons otherwise, with Brissett, a 39-year old Rivers, and and Wentz as you pointed out, in a QB carousel of sorts never with the same QB for two seasons, with all but siht at WR, was pretty remarkable.  If we had this same conversation with the roles reversed, you'd be making the same argument about how McD had now weapons on offense compared to Reich.  

 

At the same time, IMO McD would have done much worse than Reich given those circumstances in Indy.  

 

I'll admit that I could be wrong, but if we're going to be honest, McD's "ability to coach the offense" revolves entirely around Allen and his individual play.  Not anything that McD has done.  What he and his OCs have done is created the most imbalanced offense that this team has ever seen, and allowed for Allen to play playground ball when he wants to.  I'm not trying to discount anything Allen does or what he is, I'm huge on him, but the talent around him has been limited.  His RBs again, are the least utilized of any other NFL team by a wide margin.  His OL is far from being good.  

 

Anyway, as usual, agree to disagree.  This season already looks as if it's shaping up to be a real doozy.  Sadly.  

 

 

[GunnerBill]

10 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

 

At the same time, IMO McD would have done much worse than Reich given those circumstances in Indy.  

 

 

Yea, I don't just disagree with that, I disagree with it most strongly. 

[PBF81]

47 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Yea, I don't just disagree with that, I disagree with it most strongly. 

 

You strenuously object then?  

 

 

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, PBF81 said:

 

You strenuously object then?  

 

 

 

That had some redeeming value, I must admit.   😋

[4merper4mer]

5 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

I don't disagree at all. 

Get a room.  
 

 

 

In another thread.

[Toyo321]

McD is not the mental stratagist this team needs.  Our failures in the playoff's can all be traced back to him and his staff and poor coaching philosophy.  He has failed miserably to prepare this team in every aspect when it concerns playoff football, and having the team mentally unprepared to get to the next level.  He has made mistakes that everyone will forever associate back to him as a coach.  13 Seconds, blown play calling and notoriuosly bad defensive oversight of his DC.  He is firmly defiant with excuse after excuse, and trusting his process that has failed to produce any meaningful wins that show this team is progressing under his leadership and coaching.

 

Brian Daboll is better coach than McD will ever be.  Why because McD can't address his shortcoming's as a coach and fails to adjust to what the team needs to win.

 

Winning is everything and McD is not the guy to get us there, or get us a Super Bowl appearence much less winning it.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Toyo321

[PBF81]

3 minutes ago, Augie said:

That had some redeeming value, I must admit.   😋

 

It's always fun when people pick up on the movie lines.   

 

It's important not to get too emotionally wrapped up here.  

 

 

[newcam2012]

18 minutes ago, 4merper4mer said:

Get a room.  
 

 

 

In another thread.

Why? 

[4merper4mer]

1 hour ago, newcam2012 said:

Why? 

Because you are an eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeediot.