BringBackFergy Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Two words: Wall of Fame 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearstobills Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: DT's and the names you read aren't just interchangeable in our system. Perhaps the Bills don't like what they see in the pipeline as far as 3 tech DT's. I will bet a shiny object either way that as a whole, this board and the common Bills fan has very little ability in determining what Ed Olivers impact is for this system and his league value. Not to say we can't make normal observations, but as was the case with Edmunds, it is very hard to leverage those observations against a system that we don't fully understand. I think we have to at least entertain the possibility we could be wrong in our evaluation, given what teams were willing to pay for Edmunds and in this instance, what I assume they would be willing to pay for Oliver. If I recall, we also hated Daboll which surely didn't age well. Let's see how it plays out. I will throw the pitch fork to the side for now. Good Take!! In Beane I Trust. How many games did we lose last year? Oh yea.....Three (and 2 were flukes). We ran out of gas in the playoffs after a perfect storm of disasters. When we are no longer a sure fire top 5 roster going into a season, then I'll listen to the backseat gm's here. But how on Earth can someone at this point believe they see or know something that this current regime just doesn't get? p.s. At first glance I didn't like the signing either. But again, I. Trust. Beane. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 minute ago, bearstobills said: Clueless take. It really is. Who has he overrated and signed? I'll wait. 2017 He signed Milano, Tredavious, and Dawkins to extensions (and those were guys he did not draft) 2018 He signed Josh Allen, Taron Johnson, and Siran Neal to extensions 2019 Ed Oliver signed So who has he overrated and paid?? Ed doesn't count because you're suggesting a pattern. I'm still waiting. there are 2 horrible narratives rolling around Bills Nation. 1. Is that he is being over paid. 2, complaining about a guy that does not produce. I recently looked at pff at the games he has played? His based numbers are low and if you want to talk about the injuries issues @Simon brought up then that is understandable. But.. his pff scores when he does play? does have him lower not higher then a top 15 paid DI The question still stands... how many of those games was he injured and how much his injuries affected his game play over the last 4 years. Time will tell. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, Lost said: Beefing up his contract to make him more trade worthy? I honestly woulda rather extended Edmunds. Especially given the hole at LB now. The difference in the LB unit w/o Edmunds is a bigger drop than the DL would have been without Oliver. Some comments talking about how Oliver's only 25, Edmunds is only 24. This makes no sense. I'll get laughed at on this comment, but if Oliver doesn't work out and we finish 10-7 and lose the division to say the Jets, and barring Kincaid really making a difference, I don't see how Beane doesn't take a mountain of criticism following this season. We'll see, perhaps Oliver's going to play lights out ball and become that "next Aaron Donald" that all of the experts here supporting this decision said he'd be when they drafted him, I don't see why that would happen however. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, PBF81 said: Then perhaps Beane should have planned a little bit better over the six years that he's been GM, that's a logical way of looking at it as well. It's not like Oliver has been bad. He was drafted high. People expected him to be John Randle. At the end of the day you don't know his true value and I don't really expect Beane to know that a year or two after you draft a guy. Apparently he liked him. At the least, liked him enough to get further into the contract and evaluate how he might compare to other replacements. it doesn't appear from his point of view that replacements compare all that favorably. Edited June 3, 2023 by Mikie2times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 17 minutes ago, JerseyBills said: Well Von gets double teamed instead of Ed. If I remember correctly, Ed was elite in 1 on 1 win ratios for dts Oliver has drawn a ton of doubles over the last couple years; when Von went out, that number probably went through the roof. If you go back and watch the last Cincy game, the level of fear and respect he drew from the Bengals Offensive coaching staff might make your head explode. 🤯 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCBills Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, PBF81 said: Especially given the hole at LB now. The difference in the LB unit w/o Edmunds is a bigger drop than the DL would have been without Oliver. Some comments talking about how Oliver's only 25, Edmunds is only 24. This makes no sense. I'll get laughed at on this comment, but if Oliver doesn't work out and we finish 10-7 and lose the division to say the Jets, and barring Kincaid really making a difference, I don't see how Beane doesn't take a mountain of criticism following this season. We'll see, perhaps Oliver's going to play lights out ball and become that "next Aaron Donald" that all of the experts here supporting this decision said he'd be when they drafted him, I don't see why that would happen however. Im not a big Oliver fan but… DT >>> LB 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffaloboyinATL Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 minute ago, BarleyNY said: Bad teams pay players like that. Oliver has not nearly played to the level of this contract extension. Paying him with the hopes that he takes a big enough step forward to be worth makes me SMH. I get what you’re saying, but I don’t fully agree. I believe that Beane trusts McDermott, and McDermott believes in Oliver. You could classify that as “desperation” but sometimes, good teams are built by putting faith in what they see on the field, not what amateur evaluators believe. I have faith in this organization, and time will tell if it was merited. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 3 minutes ago, Simon said: The fact that you rely on statistics and popular opinion to judge the effectiveness of DT's tells us all we need to know. Thank you. 👍 LOL Says the one that relies exclusively on ad hominem. I don't mind having an intelligent discussion, but then have at it, you've not said one intelligent thing to me thus far, purely ad hominem. Nothin' better to do on a Saturday evening? LOL Otherwise, we'll see how this plays out. I seem to recall the entire forum talking about how he'd be the next Aaron Donald when we drafted him. If your hopes are like that then I won't have to say a word and will have been validated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, Simon said: Oliver has drawn a ton of doubles over the last couple years; when Von went out, that number probably went through the roof. If you go back and watch the last Cincy game, the level of fear and respect he drew from the Bengals Offensive coaching staff might make your head explode. 🤯 That is why we SHOULD be playing that big one tech DT next to him all the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 I honestly can’t wait for the end of the McBean era. 1 1 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, PBF81 said: LOL Says the one that relies exclusively on ad hominem. I don't mind having an intelligent discussion, but then have at it, you've not said one intelligent thing to me thus far, purely ad hominem. Nothin' better to do on a Saturday evening? LOL Otherwise, we'll see how this plays out. I seem to recall the entire forum talking about how he'd be the next Aaron Donald when we drafted him. If your hopes are like that then I won't have to say a word and will have been validated. The second a person has to lead to personal insulting to prove a point is the second their point is lost. This type of posting is what I hope to see less of on these boards. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airseven Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 33 minutes ago, Billzgobowlin said: This is a very good move. He was stellar when he had Von there. The problem has been there has not been much help on the line. Fair point. But that doesn’t justify this contract. This is difference-maker money. Oliver is just a cog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 minute ago, Mikie2times said: It's not like Oliver has been bad. He was drafted high. People expected him to be John Randle. At the end of the day you don't know his true value and I don't really expect Beane to know that a year or two after you draft a guy. Apparently he liked him. At the least, liked him enough to get further into the contract and evaluate how he might compare to other replacements. it doesn't appear from his point of view that replacements compare all that favorably. I'm far from a Beane apologist. At the end of the day, the Bills aren't going to fail to reach the Super Bowl because they locked up Ed Oliver to an extension. Sorry if that's not dramatic enough for some. It's also not like he's been good. He's been pretty average, it seems to me that we could easily have drafted his equal in round 1 next season if we wanted to. As well, it's also not like the Bills are going to reach the Super Bowl because of this signing. Have you taken a peek at Oliver's playoff performances? In 8 playoff games, he's got 2 sacks, 4 TFL, and 5 QB Hits. 1 of the sacks, 1 of the TFL, and 3 of the QB Hits were on Skylar Thompson and the Fins. In 7 other playoff games he's got 1 sack, 3 TFL, and 2 QB Hits. That's hardly the mark of a 4-year $68M contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, PBF81 said: If your hopes are like that then I won't have to say a word and will have been validated. 8 minutes ago, PBF81 said: We'll see, perhaps Oliver's going to play lights out ball and become that "next Aaron Donald" that all of the experts here supporting this decision said he'd be when they drafted him You are the only that keeps saying that, which explains quite a bit 6 minutes ago, PBF81 said: Says the one that relies exclusively on ad hominem. Keep trolling this thread repeatedly with stupid shlt and you get what you deserve 🤷♂️ 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearstobills Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 22 minutes ago, bearstobills said: Clueless take. It really is. Who has he overrated and signed? I'll wait. 2017 He signed Milano, Tredavious, and Dawkins to extensions (and those were guys he did not draft) 2018 He signed Josh Allen, Taron Johnson, and Siran Neal to extensions 2019 Ed Oliver signed So who has he overrated and paid?? Ed doesn't count because you're suggesting a pattern. I'm still waiting. Oops!! I forgot Knox. And I'll stand by his contract until the end. I love that kid. Whenever there was an injury on offense, I'd think....please not Knox. Drafting Kincaid changes nothing about that contract. It just makes us better. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, DCofNC said: I honestly can’t wait for the end of the McBean era. We're wasting Allen and while many can't see it for having blinders on, this team is patently mediocre w/o Allen. It's funny, our RBs are mediocre they say. Our WRs aren't good besides Diggs. Knox is overrated. Our OL isn't good they say. Same for our DL. LBs, .... LMAO, what to say there. And last year we didn't have an average CB on the field. BUT, Beane's done a fantastic job. LOL Honestly ... 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 45 over 5 years. If he plays like a monster its 68. For a starting DT thats the rate. The top guys are over 20 per year. The FA market at DT is poor. Your not finding an upgrade over Oliver in the end of the first rd either. 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 5 minutes ago, Virgil said: Knox seemed like an overpay at the time, and the Kincaid drafting doesn’t help. Now, if we commit to a two tight end set and both these guys eat, then great job Beane. But I somehow think we are still going to see a lot of FB and 3 Wr sets I totally see where you are coming from from here. I really do, and I can give you no great reason why I think they will find a way to make both TE investments pay off. But, as it so often does, it will come down to the LOS. Nothing works if you are losing the LOS regularly. And THAT is why I’m good keeping Ed over an OK LB. Win on the line. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyoAZBillfan Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, DCofNC said: I honestly can’t wait for the end of the McBean era. Don’t hold your breath, might be a minute or more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 Just now, WyoAZBillfan said: Don’t hold your breath, might be a minute or more. Unfortunately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mat68 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, Airseven said: Fair point. But that doesn’t justify this contract. This is difference-maker money. Oliver is just a cog. No its not 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 8 minutes ago, Simon said: Oliver has drawn a ton of doubles over the last couple years; when Von went out, that number probably went through the roof. If you go back and watch the last Cincy game, the level of fear and respect he drew from the Bengals Offensive coaching staff might make your head explode. 🤯 He got left 1v1 a couple times early and lost contain in pass rush iirc When doubled he got moved pretty easily for some big Mixon runs, I mean w a backup online they rushed for 170. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearstobills Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 minute ago, PBF81 said: We're wasting Allen and while many can't see it for having blinders on, this team is patently mediocre w/o Allen. It's funny, our RBs are mediocre they say. Our WRs aren't good besides Diggs. Knox is overrated. Our OL isn't good they say. Same for our DL. LBs, .... LMAO, what to say there. And last year we didn't have an average CB on the field. BUT, Beane's done a fantastic job. LOL Honestly ... I wish we were the Chiefs, who are an absolute juggernaut without Mahomes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 minute ago, PBF81 said: We're wasting Allen and while many can't see it for having blinders on, this team is patently mediocre w/o Allen. It's funny, our RBs are mediocre they say. Our WRs aren't good besides Diggs. Knox is overrated. Our OL isn't good they say. Same for our DL. LBs, .... LMAO, what to say there. And last year we didn't have an average CB on the field. BUT, Beane's done a fantastic job. LOL Honestly ... No money for anything, but let’s throw 68M at a ROTATIONAL DT.. yep, just killing it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) 9 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said: The second a person has to lead to personal insulting to prove a point is the second their point is lost. This type of posting is what I hope to see less of on these boards. I as well. That's why I don't do it. I much prefer an intelligent back-n-forth even in disagreement. Almost no one is going to ever agree with anyone else here all the time. I align with several posters, but that doesn't mean we agree on everything. Some people simply have emotional trouble with opinions that aren't in their team view. Who knows, perhaps they're young, or perhaps they have bad things going on at home or something, you never know. I would think that trying to get along here would help though. Ahh well, that's the way forums are. LOL 6 minutes ago, Simon said: You are the only that keeps saying that, which explains quite a bit Keep trolling this thread repeatedly with stupid shlt and you get what you deserve 🤷♂️ SMH ... I feel sorry for you. Not sure what I did to you personally, I dont' think anything. Have a great evening. Edited June 3, 2023 by PBF81 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCofNC Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 minute ago, bearstobills said: I wish we were the Chiefs, who are an absolute juggernaut without Mahomes Just checking.. how have they been doing in big games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikie2times Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 6 minutes ago, PBF81 said: It's also not like he's been good. He's been pretty average, it seems to me that we could easily have drafted his equal in round 1 next season if we wanted to. As well, it's also not like the Bills are going to reach the Super Bowl because of this signing. Have you taken a peek at Oliver's playoff performances? In 8 playoff games, he's got 2 sacks, 4 TFL, and 5 QB Hits. 1 of the sacks, 1 of the TFL, and 3 of the QB Hits were on Skylar Thompson and the Fins. In 7 other playoff games he's got 1 sack, 3 TFL, and 2 QB Hits. That's hardly the mark of a 4-year $68M contract. I'm hesitant to evaluate DT's with stats and even in my worst critique I would never think a 1st round yet to be drafted player would be a replacement. Ed has worked out. To what level still remains to be seen. Any future draft pick has not accomplished that much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrimeTime101 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 minute ago, PBF81 said: I as well. That's why I don't do it. I much prefer an intelligent back-n-forth even in disagreement. Almost no one is going to ever agree with anyone else here all the time. I align with several posters, but that doesn't mean we agree on everything. Some people simply have emotional trouble with opinions that aren't in their team view. Who knows, perhaps they're young, or perhaps they have bad things going on at home or something, you never know. I would think that trying to get along here would help though. Ahh well, that's the way forums are. LOL you just said " That's why I don't do it. " AND THEN say this.. Some people simply have emotional trouble with opinions that aren't in their team view. Stop it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearstobills Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 4 minutes ago, PBF81 said: We're wasting Allen and while many can't see it for having blinders on, this team is patently mediocre w/o Allen. It's funny, our RBs are mediocre they say. Our WRs aren't good besides Diggs. Knox is overrated. Our OL isn't good they say. Same for our DL. LBs, .... LMAO, what to say there. And last year we didn't have an average CB on the field. BUT, Beane's done a fantastic job. LOL Honestly ... We have unfortunately lost the power rankings going on within your head while accidently stumbling to a 13-3 record on the field. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 hours ago, CNYfan said: This has a bit of a Chris Kelsay feel to it. Not a great player, but we will ride him for 4 more. I ain’t ridin’ nothin’ for that long…. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bearstobills Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Just checking.. how have they been doing in big games? With Mahomes....they won the Super Bowl. But that's not your point. Your point is who are the Bills without their best player. And I ask you, who are the Chiefs without Mahomes? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 1 minute ago, JaCrispy said: I ain’t ridin’ nothin’ for that long…. quitter........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 (edited) Well... Can't say I saw this coming... I swear I don't want to Ed-bash...Especially now... This deal is assuming an uptick from Oliver to be a bargain. And it could end up being a bargain. He's only played at that level in spurts during his 4 years. I understand Ed has done better when he's had help. Of course. But still...He's a top 10 overall Draft pick who just got a 17 AAV deal with his top sack season being 5 in 2019... The expectations really ramp up from Bills fans and media now...I don't care what the top end market is at DT. Ed just got a lot of money. We'll see...Let's hope he makes it a bargain... That would be cool... Edited June 3, 2023 by KOKBILLS Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WyoAZBillfan Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, DCofNC said: Just checking.. how have they been doing in big games? Without mahomes? Barely beat the Brownies with some help.🤷🏼♂️ Though they seem to have plenty of room on their band wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Mikie2times said: I'm hesitant to evaluate DT's with stats and even in my worst critique I would never think a 1st round yet to be drafted player would be a replacement. Ed has worked out. To what level still remains to be seen. Any future draft pick has not accomplished that much. I hear ya, but at some point it's settling. As I've said, everyone here supporting the move complains about every other aspect of our team, that those units fall short, but for some reason Beane's doing a great job. It makes zero sense and does not logically align, thinking like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 hours ago, PetermansRedemption said: Don’t understand this at all. Let him play the final year and then you could have paid him that if he improved. Only way I see them doing this is if they are trying to free up cap space for another signing, combined with this Oliver contract having an easy out after a year or two…👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herc11 Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 16 minutes ago, DCofNC said: I honestly can’t wait for the end of the McBean era. Right, cause the 15+ yrs before them, we were so successful! 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaCrispy Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 2 minutes ago, Simon said: quitter........ Can’t help when my abs start hurting…😉 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
julian Posted June 3, 2023 Share Posted June 3, 2023 30 minutes ago, PBF81 said: Detroit, yeah, LOL. And in just about every other game you couldn't tell the difference between him and any mediocre DT in the league. There’s only a small handful of DTs that are noticeable every game and they make or will make the top money, not this middle of the league money Oliver just signed for. DT isn’t a splash play position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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