stuvian Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 7 minutes ago, bobobonators said: contracts signed by Kirk Cousins: 2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal 2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed 2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed 2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed 2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed 2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed career: $231M thru 2023... ...of which $229M was fully guaranteed career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter and 1 playoff win in 8 years contracts signed by Lamar Jackson: 2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised) 2023: tbd comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games) Lamar: 45-16 (.738) Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459) Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT Kirk: 105 pass TD to 53 INT Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD MVP’s: Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. there's no question that Lamar deserves a good deal. The question is whether he is automatically entitled to one that equals or exceeds Watson's. The guaranteed money genie is out of the bottle and it's not going back in. Lamar has already turned down 3 years at 43 per year guaranteed so he and the Ravens are in the same ballpark. There's enough money in the NFL to pay Lamar what he is asking. The Ravens are a six win team with out him. His negotiating strategy is unorthodox in that he has lost a couple of high earning years that could have been negotiated before his rookie deal ran out. I think he'll get a four deal at Watson's salary guaranteed with a fifth year that's voidable by either side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CincyBillsFan Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 30 minutes ago, bobobonators said: contracts signed by Kirk Cousins: 2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal 2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed 2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed 2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed 2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed 2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed career: $231M thru 2023... ...of which $229M was fully guaranteed career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter and 1 playoff win in 8 years contracts signed by Lamar Jackson: 2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised) 2023: tbd comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games) Lamar: 45-16 (.738) Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459) Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT Kirk: 105 pass TD to 53 INT Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD MVP’s: Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. Playoff wins: Lamar 1 and Cousins 1. Games missed due to injury: Lamar 12 in 5 seasons & Cousins 0 in 11 seasons. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 (edited) 38 minutes ago, bobobonators said: contracts signed by Kirk Cousins: 2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal 2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed 2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed 2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed 2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed 2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed career: $231M thru 2023... ...of which $229M was fully guaranteed career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter and 1 playoff win in 8 years contracts signed by Lamar Jackson: 2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised) 2023: tbd comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games) Lamar: 45-16 (.738) Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459) Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT Kirk: 105 pass TD to 53 INT Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD MVP’s: Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. I’m sorry, it’s not personal, but that is a horrible take. (See the bold.) Are you calling people racists because they think Lamar wants a contract that would be a bad move for any team? Top dollar (originally said to be 100% guaranteed, but now he’s “reportedly” backed off) after spending TWO first round picks. My understanding is he’s been offered Cousins types of deals, but he wants longer term AND fully guaranteed. He wants the STUPID deal the Browns gave Watson. One stupid deal does NOT make the market. Look at the Cousins deals - he was smart and willing to accept short term deals. He’s made a fortune on 1-2 year deals over and over. Lamar could do the same. Lamar would be fully guaranteed on the $32mil +/- franchise deal. Nobody resents that, to my knowledge. I think he was offered 3 years for $133 mil guaranteed, but he wanted more and/or longer. His style does not lend itself to long term fully guaranteed deals. He needs to stay healthy and earn his money. I don’t see this as racist. The man needs professional representation. With a qualified agent none of this would be happening. . Edited April 8, 2023 by Augie 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted April 8, 2023 Share Posted April 8, 2023 Lamar is superior to Cousins in that when it's 4th down, he knows you either have to run or pass to the 4th down marker 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4merper4mer Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 20 hours ago, bobobonators said: contracts signed by Kirk Cousins: 2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal 2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed 2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed 2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed 2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed 2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed career: $231M thru 2023... ...of which $229M was fully guaranteed career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter and 1 playoff win in 8 years contracts signed by Lamar Jackson: 2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised) 2023: tbd comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games) Lamar: 45-16 (.738) Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459) Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT Kirk: 105 pass TD to 53 INT Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD MVP’s: Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. Now do comparisons with: Mahomes Allen Stafford Dak Geno Carr Jimmy G The number one fact is that no one REALLY knows what has been discussed between Jackson and Baltimore. With that said, so much of the speculation says the same thing about guarantees that it is likely close to true. I don’t think most people would be either happy or upset if Baltimore gave Jackson everything he wants. They may have opinions on its wisdom, but saying the opinions are based on skin color is not backed up by evidence. The only player to receive a fully guaranteed, top dollar, long term contract in league history is a black guy. Cousins’ longest contract was three years and not true top end money….close, but not what Jackson presumably wants. Clearly the owners do not want baseball type contracts to become the norm. You can argue whether or not there is collusion, but tying it to race is unsupported. You tried with Cousins, but a valid argument requires a lot more than that. If Allen, Carr, and Stafford had received full guarantees, but Mahomes, Geno and Dak hadn’t, you’d have an argument. Personally, I don’t care what Jackson gets from whom, but maybe have a small preference for him ending up in the NFC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 21 hours ago, bobobonators said: contracts signed by Kirk Cousins: 2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal 2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed 2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed 2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed 2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed 2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed career: $231M thru 2023... ...of which $229M was fully guaranteed career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter and 1 playoff win in 8 years contracts signed by Lamar Jackson: 2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised) 2023: tbd comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games) Lamar: 45-16 (.738) Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459) Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT Kirk: 105 pass TD to 53 INT Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD MVP’s: Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. He isn’t getting paid because he’s a greedy idiot. He could’ve signed a fair very contract last year with 200M guaranteed. Then he failed to finish his 2nd consecutive season due to injury. Now people talk about race. Sad 2 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 21 hours ago, stuvian said: Lamar is superior to Cousins in that when it's 4th down, he knows you either have to run or pass to the 4th down marker So neither one knows when it's 4th down to run or pass to the 1st down marker? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 Well, I guess there’s one receiver who wanted to play with Lamar!!! But no one in this board wanted him. 😂😂😂 for the record, I was on the anti OBJ bandwagon from the start. 2 hours ago, NewEra said: He isn’t getting paid because he’s a greedy idiot. He could’ve signed a fair very contract last year with 200M guaranteed. Then he failed to finish his 2nd consecutive season due to injury. Now people talk about race. Sad Yup, the players whose career can end on one play without guaranteed contracts are the idiots. Not the billionaires owners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 9, 2023 Share Posted April 9, 2023 2 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Well, I guess there’s one receiver who wanted to play with Lamar!!! But no one in this board wanted him. 😂😂😂 for the record, I was on the anti OBJ bandwagon from the start. Yup, the players whose career can end on one play without guaranteed contracts are the idiots. Not the billionaires owners. No, not all are idiots. Lamar is though. He’s the greedy idiot that refused to pay an agent and then turned down 200M guaranteed. I like Lamar. I root for many non Bills, but I root for Lamar to do well. That doesn’t change the fact that he screwed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QLBillsFan Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 (edited) 4 hours ago, Limeaid said: Nothing to do with his race. You added race because your argument is weak. You are the racist. You neglected to include number of games he missed. Availability is most import asset. Embarrassing to go race card with Lamar. Bill Polian got destroyed for saying pre draft he didn’t think Lamar was going to be a good NFL qb for his passing ability and skill set. Not because he was black. He has been proven wrong to some degree. Numerous posters have explained the why and the logical reasons that Lamar isn’t getting what he wants. He owns about 90% of his current situation. He should take accountability for that. One question GM’s and owners have is what kind of leader gets in the situation? You combine that with all that has been posted about health, playoff results, and passing ability and here you are. Edited April 10, 2023 by QLBillsFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsShredder83 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 On 4/8/2023 at 6:50 PM, bobobonators said: contracts signed by Kirk Cousins: 2012: standard 4-yr rookie deal 2016: $19.9M fully guaranteed 2017: $23.9M fully guaranteed 2018: $84.0M fully guaranteed 2020: $66.0M fully guaranteed 2022: $35.0M fully guaranteed career: $231M thru 2023... ...of which $229M was fully guaranteed career 72-63-2 (.533) as a starter and 1 playoff win in 8 years contracts signed by Lamar Jackson: 2018: standard 4-yr rookie deal (option exercised) 2023: tbd comps thru first 61 starts (Lamar has started 61 games) Lamar: 45-16 (.738) Kirk: 27-32-2 (.459) Lamar: 100 pass TD to 38 INT Kirk: 105 pass TD to 53 INT Lamar: +0.10 EPA/att, 47% success Kirk: +0.09 EPA/att, 47% success Lamar: 64% comp, 7.4 YPA Kirk: 66% comp, 7.7 YPA Lamar: 6.1 YPC, 4,298 rush yds, 23 rush TD Kirk: 3.3 YPC, 440 rush yds, 13 rush TD MVP’s: Lamar: 1. Cousins: 0 There isnt a 50 page thread on Kirk Cousins getting paid. It really hurts some of you seeing a black man get paid at QB. PAIN. lamar has and would turn down any contract that looks like kirks. the black man is too in his own way to get paid. lamar turned down the 3 years fully guaranteed deal offered, hes looking for double the years, hell never get it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJB Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 On 4/4/2023 at 3:08 PM, Xerx said: Lamar the passer is clearly in my eyes, why he's not getting a big deal done. For comparison sake, take a look at these two 3 yr stretches QB1 - 39 GP, 691-1084 (att/cmp), 7881 yds, 59TD(5%) , 29 INT (3%), 7.3 Y/A, 7.2 AY/A, 202.1 Yards per game QB2 - 43 GP, 774-1236 (att/cmp), 8857 yds, 51TD(4%) , 16 INT (1%), 7.2 Y/A, 7.4 AY/A, 206.0 Yards per game QB1 is last Lamar - post MVP seasons QB2 is Tyrod - Bills years That's eye opening to me! Do you have the rushing stats for this as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HappyDays Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benderbender Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 They have money for OBJ but not their franchise QB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 14 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said: Yup, the players whose career can end on one play without guaranteed contracts are the idiots. Not the billionaires owners. Not idiots, but you need some self awareness. You've missed 12 games in the past several seasons -- so owners know your career can end on one play and so can their investment. Fully guaranteed was not in the cards. Plus the agent thing. Talks get plenty personal and fast when it's face-to-face. You need that buffer and frankly someone who knows more than you about high level NFL negotiations. Lamarr just overplayed his hand. Maybe having OBJ will be a nice consolation prize. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunvald's Husse Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 10 hours ago, benderbender said: They have money for OBJ but not their franchise QB They had money for Lamar too, just not the money/conditions he demanded. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDIGGZ Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 Lamar is not a good passer and OBJ is washed. That's a lot of money to spend for a team that is hoping to sneak into a wildcard spot. Interested to see what happens with Lamar's contract now. If he's under the tag does he skip the entire preseason and then show up out of shape and out of sync with the offense? This could be a disaster for everyone involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuvian Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 15 hours ago, Green Lightning said: So neither one knows when it's 4th down to run or pass to the 1st down marker? Cousins does not know this as demonstrated in this year's playoffs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Lightning Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 1 hour ago, stuvian said: Cousins does not know this as demonstrated in this year's playoffs Right, I just thought he would run or pass past the 1st down marker.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted April 10, 2023 Share Posted April 10, 2023 2 hours ago, Green Lightning said: Not idiots, but you need some self awareness. You've missed 12 games in the past several seasons -- so owners know your career can end on one play and so can their investment. Fully guaranteed was not in the cards. Plus the agent thing. Talks get plenty personal and fast when it's face-to-face. You need that buffer and frankly someone who knows more than you about high level NFL negotiations. Lamarr just overplayed his hand. Maybe having OBJ will be a nice consolation prize. Trust me, I know Lamar has definitely dropped the ball in several ways. But I never get why people get worked up over negotiating. He hasn’t missed a game and it’s the end result that matters. If he ends up getting his money or close to it, what did this really effect? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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