Lamar Jackson wants guarantees that exceed Watson contract

[mrags]

14 minutes ago, NoSaint said:

if the bills pick a guy with 75% of the impact we would call him an absolute steal at our first round pick. You don’t have to like the guy to acknowledge he was a great pick.

 

The guy missed 6 games in each of the last 2 seasons. 15 games twice and 7 games in his rookie year. He’s also missed at least 2 playoff games and been injured with no return in at least one more. The guy is the opposite of reliable. 

 

But for your argument, no, I wouldn’t consider his output as a player a success by a 75% margin. To look at our QBs since Kelly in 96 and Allen in 17 here’s a list of the QBs that have passed for the career high 3100 Yards that Lamar passed for in his best season. 

 

Flutie in 99’

Bledsoe in 02’

Fitz in 11’

Fitz in 12’

 

After that you had about 5 guys with 3k yards. 2 of them were Taylor. Who was also a running QB. So basically on par with Jackson. So basically Jackson is a better version of Tyrod Taylor. 

[Chaos]

6 hours ago, Gunvald's Husse said:

Go on then, who are the 10 (or more) QBs ahead of him

1. Patrick Mahomes
2. Josh Allen
3. Joe Burrows
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. Jalen Hurts
6. Trevor Lawrence
7. Justin Hebert
   
   Those are the seven I would rather have as my QB. 

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

35 minutes ago, Chaos said:

1. Patrick Mahomes
2. Josh Allen
3. Joe Burrows
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. Jalen Hurts
6. Trevor Lawrence
7. Justin Hebert
   
   Those are the seven I would rather have as my QB. 

 

 I don't know. It depends are we getting the 2019-2020 Lamar or the 2021-2022 one. He hasn't been good the last 2 years 33 tds, 20 ints, QB Ratings of 87 & 91.

 

 Take this year alone...23rd in ypa, 26th in comp%, 16th in QB Rating & 29th in ypg. Zach Wilson threw for more yards per game than Lamar did. So did Daniel Jones, David Mills & Mac Jones. 

 

 Point is he hasn't been a top 10 QB since 2020.

 

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

19 hours ago, FireChans said:

The only person stopping Lamar from getting paid is Lamar. The only people that don’t realize that are Lamar and you, apparently. 

So if drew rosenhaus was Lamar’s agent, he won’t try everything possible to get the Watson deal? That’s how all salaries work. The next guy up tries to beat the  current salary. 

 

16 hours ago, mrags said:

Because of where he was picked I’d say he has been 50/50. He was still a first round pick. And as good as Lamar has been at times, he’s also been an issue, mainly with health/injuries. But his consistency hasn’t been the greatest either. 
 

either way, they’ve fumbled the whole situation by allowing it to get as bad as it has. Or maybe they are right as an Org and don’t want to waste their future on a guy that has proven that availability isn’t his strong suit. 

Stop it. He was a great pick. 

12 hours ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 I don't know. It depends are we getting the 2019-2020 Lamar or the 2021-2022 one. He hasn't been good the last 2 years 33 tds, 20 ints, QB Ratings of 87 & 91.

 

 Take this year alone...23rd in ypa, 26th in comp%, 16th in QB Rating & 29th in ypg. Zach Wilson threw for more yards per game than Lamar did. So did Daniel Jones, David Mills & Mac Jones. 

 

 Point is he hasn't been a top 10 QB since 2020.

 

 

 

 

They traded away his 1,000 yard receiver. They have a bottom 5 receiver group. The only guy who could probably play on other teams is Bateman, who makes Sammy Watkins look like Ironman.

 

the ravens are the anti Steelers in terms of drafting receivers. 

[C.Biscuit97]

13 hours ago, Chaos said:

1. Patrick Mahomes
2. Josh Allen
3. Joe Burrows
4. Aaron Rodgers
5. Jalen Hurts
6. Trevor Lawrence
7. Justin Hebert
   
   Those are the seven I would rather have as my QB. 

I think he’s getting there but Lawrence had one pretty good, not close to a mvp, season. 
 

also, Jackson would kill for those receivers. 

[Chaos]

8 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I think he’s getting there but Lawrence had one pretty good, not close to a mvp, season. 
 

also, Jackson would kill for those receivers. 

I never said Lawrence was an MVP.  I said I would rather have Lawrence than Jackson as my QB.  

[Mr. WEO]

20 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

I mean he’s a 26 year old former MVP, Heisman winner, who has basically a 100 qb rating, who is the best rushing qb ever and has a 45-16 record, who is struggling to get a deal signed. This never happens. Scrub qbs get paid all the time. Daniel Jines is getting $40 million after throwing 15 td passes.

 

obviously there are a lot of valid reasons why this has been a tough negotiation. But to act like there are other reasons that makes people question things is valid too. He was called a rb (and still is by some fans) after an amazing college career. He got drafted behind garbage qbs. Everything he does good gets discounted. I get both sides but with dudes like Wentz, Goff, Jones, Murray, etc get paid, it’s weird that a guy with such a better resume doesn’t. And I get the reasons but Jackson has been disrespect since he entered the nfl. 

He’s 26 and you yadda yadda a mvp. 

it’s not happening because no one wants to invest a fully guaranteed contract in this guy. 

 

he could easily get more per annum than Jones.  He refuses to sign such a contract.  The market has confirmed that his demand is unreasonable.  
 

Pretty simple

[TheBrownBear]

21 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

obviously there are a lot of valid reasons why this has been a tough negotiation. But to act like there are other reasons that makes people question things is valid too. He was called a rb (and still is by some fans) after an amazing college career. He got drafted behind garbage qbs. Everything he does good gets discounted. I get both sides but with dudes like Wentz, Goff, Jones, Murray, etc get paid, it’s weird that a guy with such a better resume doesn’t. And I get the reasons but Jackson has been disrespect since he entered the nfl. 

He’s 26 and you yadda yadda a mvp. 

Biscuit, I get where you're going with this and I actually agree with you as it relates to many fans' and pundits' reactions and takes on the Jackson situation (trying to diminish his accomplishments, downplay his actual skills or question his overall intelligence, etc.).  But at the end of the day, the owners really don't give a sheet.  They just want to win.  Jackson isn't getting signed for two reasons.  The first, is that they view his demand for a fully guaranteed Watson-style contract as wildly unreasonable.  The second, which is tied to the first but actually more important, is that he is, no matter how we try to argue it away, a QB who's success depends greatly on his running ability, that is finding himself increasingly injured as each season passes.  With his style of play, he isn't going to get healthier as time goes by.  He's just going to get increasingly nicked up until he is a shell of his former self.  If Jackson were a "mobile pocket passer" in the mold of Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Watson or prime Russ Wilson, he probably would have already received his fully guaranteed contract, agent or no.  Even acknowledging the above, if he were to swallow his pride, hire an agent now and move off his demand for fully guaranteed money, he'd probably be signed to one of the largest contracts in history within 24 hours.

Edited April 4, 2023 by TheBrownBear

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

55 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

 

Stop it. He was a great pick. 

They traded away his 1,000 yard receiver. They have a bottom 5 receiver group. The only guy who could probably play on other teams is Bateman, who makes Sammy Watkins look like Ironman.

 

the ravens are the anti Steelers in terms of drafting receivers. 

 

 The 1,000 yard receiver wanted out of Baltimore, they didn't just wake up one day and say hey let's trade him away. No receiver, that's worth anything, wants to play there. Why do you think that is? And sure they don't have great receivers at the moment, but do have 1 of the best receiving TEs in the league.   

 Great WRs or not doesn't fully explain his bad passing numbers over the last 2 seasons, if he's an elite QB his numbers would be far better than they have been. Maybe he should learn how to throw outside the numbers and not just over the middle of the field. There's a reason they run 3 TE sets, can't bring in or keep a good WR & had to design an offense specifically for him.

 

 6 QBs in 2021 & 3 more in 2022 had more total tds in a single season than Lamar has combined over the last 2 years and 1 more had exactly the same number in 2021. He's not elite and has not been a top 10 QB since 2020. With almost all his passing stats ranked in the 20s, the better question right now is, is Lamar even top 15 at the moment? 

 

 

 

[C.Biscuit97]

51 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

 The 1,000 yard receiver wanted out of Baltimore, they didn't just wake up one day and say hey let's trade him away. No receiver, that's worth anything, wants to play there. Why do you think that is? And sure they don't have great receivers at the moment, but do have 1 of the best receiving TEs in the league.   

 Great WRs or not doesn't fully explain his bad passing numbers over the last 2 seasons, if he's an elite QB his numbers would be far better than they have been. Maybe he should learn how to throw outside the numbers and not just over the middle of the field. There's a reason they run 3 TE sets, can't bring in or keep a good WR & had to design an offense specifically for him.

 

 6 QBs in 2021 & 3 more in 2022 had more total tds in a single season than Lamar has combined over the last 2 years and 1 more had exactly the same number in 2021. He's not elite and has not been a top 10 QB since 2020. With almost all his passing stats ranked in the 20s, the better question right now is, is Lamar even top 15 at the moment? 

 

 

 

Brown was ninth in targets his last year in bAltimore. All his numbers were worse in Arizona. He wanted out because of the system they run and all receivers care about is getting their stats. They have never had a receiver the talent level of Diggs. AB didn’t want to come to Buffalo because of Allen. Now, that looks incredibly stupid. 
 

if Jackson was in the Miami system (again, he has already won a mvp) and was “struggling,” that would be one thing. But Roman’s system is limiting and he played with mainly garbage around him besides Andrews. Imo, if he is miamis qb, they would be a major problem.

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

it’s not happening because no one wants to invest a fully guaranteed contract in this guy. 

 

he could easily get more per annum than Jones.  He refuses to sign such a contract.  The market has confirmed that his demand is unreasonable.  
 

Pretty simple

That’s fair. I believe he probably will take a step back and get a major, but not fully guaranteed contract.

[C.Biscuit97]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBear said:

Biscuit, I get where you're going with this and I actually agree with you as it relates to many fans' and pundits' reactions and takes on the Jackson situation (trying to diminish his accomplishments, downplay his actual skills or question his overall intelligence, etc.).  But at the end of the day, the owners really don't give a sheet.  They just want to win.  Jackson isn't getting signed for two reasons.  The first, is that they view his demand for a fully guaranteed Watson-style contract as wildly unreasonable.  The second, which is tied to the first but actually more important, is that he is, no matter how we try to argue it away, a QB who's success depends greatly on his running ability, that is finding himself increasingly injured as each season passes.  With his style of play, he isn't going to get healthier as time goes by.  He's just going to get increasingly nicked up until he is a shell of his former self.  If Jackson were a "mobile pocket passer" in the mold of Mahomes, Allen, Hurts, Watson or prime Russ Wilson, he probably would have already received his fully guaranteed contract, agent or no.  Even acknowledging the above, if he were to swallow his pride, hire an agent now and move off his demand for fully guaranteed money, he'd probably be signed to one of the largest contracts in history within 24 hours.

Good post. I would say it would be interesting if Mahomes was up and would his contract be fully guaranteed. Nfl owners have fought that for so long and I think qb contracts compared to the rest of the positions are getting out of control. I think the owners while not colliding are United to fight stop the madness after the Watson contract. I definitely believe if he didn’t want the guaranteed money, he would have been signed. 
 

im not saying Jackson is making the right moves. But it’s hard for these guys to settle for less when they think a guy they are better than (I think pre rapist Watson was better than Jackson). I do think someone should get in his ear. If I was the ravens, I’d promise to get him receivers and open up the offense and see how he does in it and then work on a long term deal.

[TheBrownBear]

5 minutes ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Good post. I would say it would be interesting if Mahomes was up and would his contract be fully guaranteed. Nfl owners have fought that for so long and I think qb contracts compared to the rest of the positions are getting out of control. I think the owners while not colliding are United to fight stop the madness after the Watson contract. I definitely believe if he didn’t want the guaranteed money, he would have been signed. 
 

im not saying Jackson is making the right moves. But it’s hard for these guys to settle for less when they think a guy they are better than (I think pre rapist Watson was better than Jackson). I do think someone should get in his ear. If I was the ravens, I’d promise to get him receivers and open up the offense and see how he does in it and then work on a long term deal.

Granted, I'm just some guy on a couch, but I'm guessing it's his pride, and not his business acumen, that just won't allow him to accept anything less than what he's been demanding to this point.  People have been trying to make a fool of him and talk down to him, so it's an especially tough pill to swallow to put your tail between your legs and walk back to the negotiating table with a far lower $$$ demand.  Again, he could have avoided all of this by hiring an experienced agent who could give it to him straight and quickly negotiate a great deal for both parties without any loss of goodwill or a reputation hit on Jackson's part.   

[FireChans]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So if drew rosenhaus was Lamar’s agent, he won’t try everything possible to get the Watson deal? That’s how all salaries work. The next guy up tries to beat the  current salary.

Okay.  So first you're complaining that Daniel Jones has a deal and Lamar doesn't (Lamar would be signed to way more money than DJ tomorrow if he would agree with it).

 

Try everything possible like test the market and see that nobody is paying what you're demanding?  Maybe.  If Drew was his agent tomorrow, do you think he would be telling Lamar to take the $280M 5 year deal?  Of course he would. Agents don't get paid if you are sitting out.

[mrags]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

So if drew rosenhaus was Lamar’s agent, he won’t try everything possible to get the Watson deal? That’s how all salaries work. The next guy up tries to beat the  current salary. 

 

Stop it. He was a great pick. 

They traded away his 1,000 yard receiver. They have a bottom 5 receiver group. The only guy who could probably play on other teams is Bateman, who makes Sammy Watkins look like Ironman.

 

the ravens are the anti Steelers in terms of drafting receivers. 

Yeah imo over rated. Especially for his availability. No thanks. Wouldn’t want him as my QB. 

[Doc]

So do the people supporting Lamar think he should get a 5-year $250M fully-guaranteed deal?

[FireChans]

7 minutes ago, Doc said:

So do the people supporting Lamar think he should get a 5-year $250M fully-guaranteed deal?

No. They just want to show they are down for the cause. 

[Xerx]

Lamar the passer is clearly in my eyes, why he's not getting a big deal done.

 

For comparison sake, take a look at these two 3 yr stretches

 

QB1 - 39 GP, 691-1084 (att/cmp), 7881 yds, 59TD(5%) , 29 INT (3%), 7.3 Y/A, 7.2 AY/A, 202.1 Yards per game

QB2 - 43 GP, 774-1236 (att/cmp), 8857 yds, 51TD(4%) , 16 INT (1%), 7.2 Y/A, 7.4 AY/A, 206.0 Yards per game

 

QB1 is last Lamar - post MVP seasons

 

QB2 is Tyrod - Bills years

 

That's eye opening to me!

[EasternOHBillsFan]

28 minutes ago, Xerx said:

Lamar the passer is clearly in my eyes, why he's not getting a big deal done.

 

For comparison sake, take a look at these two 3 yr stretches

 

QB1 - 39 GP, 691-1084 (att/cmp), 7881 yds, 59TD(5%) , 29 INT (3%), 7.3 Y/A, 7.2 AY/A, 202.1 Yards per game

QB2 - 43 GP, 774-1236 (att/cmp), 8857 yds, 51TD(4%) , 16 INT (1%), 7.2 Y/A, 7.4 AY/A, 206.0 Yards per game

 

QB1 is last Lamar - post MVP seasons

 

QB2 is Tyrod - Bills years

 

That's eye opening to me!

 

Tryrod protected his stats with extremely safe play, that's why his stats always look really good. That's not a formula to win 10+ games a season, however.

[Xerx]

You think those stats look good?

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

2 hours ago, C.Biscuit97 said:

Brown was ninth in targets his last year in bAltimore. All his numbers were worse in Arizona. He wanted out because of the system they run and all receivers care about is getting their stats. They have never had a receiver the talent level of Diggs. AB didn’t want to come to Buffalo because of Allen. Now, that looks incredibly stupid. 
 

if Jackson was in the Miami system (again, he has already won a mvp) and was “struggling,” that would be one thing. But Roman’s system is limiting and he played with mainly garbage around him besides Andrews. Imo, if he is miamis qb, they would be a major problem.

 

 

 By far the biggest difference between Brown in 2021 and Brown last year was number of games played, not who was throwing to him. He averaged only 4.9 yards less a game with the likes of Kyler Murray, Colt McCoy, Trace McSorley & David Blough throwing to him rather than a "former MVP". That example doesn't doesn't help your argument, it hurts it.

 

 Still can't believe Zach Wilson threw for more yardage per game, thee worst starting QB in the league. Defending Lamar isn'tthat difficult, guard against him running and cover the middle of the field. And as time has gone on, teams have figured that out.