Brandon Beane admitting fault & not learning from his mistakes.

[Success]

33 minutes ago, coloradobillsfan said:

If you don't think these draft whiffs have shortened Beane's leash considerably, you're in denial 

 

Beane's job is as safe as any in the NFL right now.  I doubt there is any consideration of moving on from him at all, at least at the moment.

 

[NewEra]

28 minutes ago, Ethan in Cleveland said:

Good summary. Honest question, 2 star players(Allen/Diggs) in 6 drafts one coming via trade.  Is that good enough? 

I think he has other solid picks like you pointed out. I love Knox and Taron Johnson but still don't like the Oliver pick and second contract. Hoping Rousseau flashes this year. Every GM has busts. But he is absolutely butchering day 2 of the draft which is where the core of the team should come from. 

Kincaid and Torrence can quiet the critics like me. Guys like AJE and Bernard make me question who is actually calling the draft shots, Beane or McDermott.  

 

Let's just see how it all works out. 

I think that should be 5 drafts as the 6th draft class hasn’t had a chance to prove stardom. Our top 2 picks have a chance to double the list of 2.  I think Rousseau may add his name to this list this season as well.    

 

Taron isn’t a “star” but he’s in the conversation for the best slot corner in the league. 
 

Beane has had a tough time on day 2.  AINT no doubt about it. 

 

[Virgil]

 

That's pretty rough.  I get that success rate is not high for many drafts, but these are all Day 1-2 picks.  Boogie is bad to me because they went Groot the prior pick.  I'll always remember Dobbins going the pick after AJ.  Ford I can forgive, as that was considered a steal at the time.  Motor is just the RB life these days.  

[AuntieEm]

On 2/13/2023 at 5:09 PM, teef said:

so it's impossible he reviews this past year, realizes what needs to change, and does it?

Only if he consults with the omniscient Bandit on what he can do to improve.

[SoTier]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:45 PM, teef said:

you don't think a new coordinator can improve from one season to the next?  he may not, but to act like it can't happen is wrong.

 

Why are you surprised that some on this MB think Dorsey can't improve?  There are pages upon pages of comments in multiple threads already consigning the 2022 draft class to the bust pile.  Our window has closed.  Beane can't make good picks in the first and second rounds.  The Jests and the Carp have better rosters, etc etc etc ...   Sometimes I have to go back and check that the Bills actually did go 13-3 last season and won a playoff game given the litany of "the sky is falling" chants that seem to be overrunning this MB.

[Beck Water]

3 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

That's pretty rough.  I get that success rate is not high for many drafts, but these are all Day 1-2 picks.  Boogie is bad to me because they went Groot the prior pick.  I'll always remember Dobbins going the pick after AJ.  Ford I can forgive, as that was considered a steal at the time.  Motor is just the RB life these days.  

 

Maybe we should look at the whole draft, or at least the early days?

2019: 

1. Ed Oliver - can ball, just re-upped

2. Cody Ford - Looked promising his rookie season.  I think injuries ruined him, it happens.

3. Devin Singletary - solid RB for 4 years behind "meh" OL, solid pass pro for 3.  Got our Round 3 worth from him.

3. Knox - quality player, re-signed

Early round hit rate: 2/4, 3/4 if you count Singletary which I think one should

2020:

1. (Stefon "I am Him" Diggs)

2. AJ Epenesa - 6.5 sacks, 10 QB hits last season.  If he can improve on that this season, we've got something.  Since McD rotates DL, #4 playing 40% of snaps.

3. Zack Moss - brought Nyheim Hines in trade, who locked down KR/PR until his unfortunate close encounter with a JetSki

4. Gabe Davis - #2 WR for the team.  He ain't Tee Higgins, Devonta Smith, or Jalen Waddle, but he wasn't drafted in the 1st/high 2nd either.  Solid value in the 4th.

Hit rate: 2/4 (3/4 if you count Diggs)

2021:

1. Greg Rousseau - 8 sacks 14 QB hits last season.  Playing 49-56% of snaps.  Looks promising.

2. Boogie Basham - just traded, we'll see what he brought.

3. Spencer Brown - jury is still out.  has not locked down a spot. 

1/3, maybe 2/3 if Spencer improves.

2022:

1. Kaiir Elam - I don't know that I'd bet money on that #4 CB slot being locked down with him, but that could be me.  Has a learning curve.

2. James Cook - looking promising

3. Terrell Bernard - was competing for starting MLB.  We'll see.

Too soon to tell, might be 1/3, might be 3/3 when the dust settles

2023:

1. Dalton Kincaid - looking promising

2. O'Cyrus Torrance - looking promising

3. Dorian Williams - has a learning curve, despite folks wanting to hand him the MLB gig

Too soon to tell, might be 2/3, might be 3/3

 

Kinda bugs me when a guy looks at 6 out of 9-11 picks 🤷‍♀️ and also lists as a problem, a 3rd round RB who gave us 4 solid seasons.

 

 

Edited August 29, 2023 by Beck Water

[TH3]

2 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Maybe we should look at the whole draft, or at least the early days?

2019: 

1. Ed Oliver - can ball, just re-upped

2. Cody Ford - Looked promising his rookie season.  I think injuries ruined him, it happens.

3. Devin Singletary - solid RB for 4 years behind "meh" OL, solid pass pro for 3.  Got our Round 3 worth from him.

3. Knox - quality player, re-signed

Early round hit rate: 2/4

2020:

1. (Stefon "I am Him" Diggs)

2. AJ Epenesa - 6.5 sacks, 10 QB hits last season.  If he can improve on that this season, we've got something.  Since McD rotates DL, #4 playing 40% of snaps.

3. Zack Moss - brought Nyheim Hines in trade, who locked down KR/PR until his unfortunate close encounter with a JetSki

4. Gabe Davis - #2 WR for the team.  He ain't Tee Higgins, Devonta Smith, or Jalen Waddle, but he wasn't drafted in the 1st/high 2nd either.  Solid value in the 4th.

Hit rate: 2/4 (3/4 if you count Diggs)

2021:

1. Greg Rousseau - 8 sacks 14 QB hits last season.  Playing 49-56% of snaps.  Looks promising.

2. Boogie Basham - just traded, we'll see what he brought.

3. Spencer Brown - jury is still out.  has not locked down a spot. 

1/3, maybe 2/3 if Spencer improves.

2022:

1. Kaiir Elam - I don't know that I'd bet money on that #4 CB slot being locked down with him, but that could be me.  Has a learning curve.

2. James Cook - looking promising

3. Terrell Bernard - was competing for starting MLB.  We'll see.

Too soon to tell, might be 1/3, might be 3/3 when the dust settles

2023:

1. Dalton Kincaid - looking promising

2. O'Cyrus Torrance - looking promising

3. Dorian Williams - has a learning curve, despite folks wanting to hand him the MLB gig

Too soon to tell, might be 2/3, might be 3/3

 

Kinda bugs me when a guy looks at 6 out of 9-11 picks 🤷‍♀️ and also lists as a problem, a 3rd round RB who gave us 4 solid seasons.

 

 

Thank you

[Dablitzkrieg]

Can you imagine not realizing the draft is a crap shoot outside of the obvious talent?  Couldn't be any insane Bills fan.

[Nihilarian]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:49 PM, John from Riverside said:

I’m going to pre-face this by saying that I think that our general manager overall has done an outstanding job, you don’t stay in the playoffs every year and have 13 and three seasons whenever your GM sucks
 

However

 

I agree with the take of saying one thing, and doing another, whenever it comes to the offensive line

 

It feels like we have done the bare minimum to try to put a confident offensive line on the field, start addressing it the same way that you have been addressing the defensive line but hopefully with better players

I agree. The GM is really only as good as the scouts that are giving him info on players. Plus, I'll bet that McD has some input into those defensive picks.  *cough cough* Boogie. 

 

Seriously, some picks simply don't work out and fans just need to let it go. So he couldn't find a WR in the draft and traded for Diggs, couldn't find that premier pass rusher, and signed Von Miller. This stuff tells me his scouts aren't all that great. 

 

Buffalo is a great team and it's mostly because of Beane. 

[leonbus23]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:51 PM, Shaw66 said:

Maybe you're young, but this statement, in my humble opinion, is amazingly naive.  Do you think that if Dorsey is an Offensive coordinator for the next 20 years, he won't be any better than he was this season?   That he'll never improve?

 

That's just wrong.   I've practiced law for 40 years, and I was so much better in year 5 than year 1, it was amazing.   Year 10 I was way ahead of year 5, and by year 20, well, that's when I hit my stride.   Ask Andy Reid, and he'll tell you the same thing about his coaching career.  Ask Belichick.  

 

I saw an interview after he won his most recent NBA championship.  He was asked what he would say to the 27-year-old Lebron (after his first championship) if he could sit in a room with him.  Lebron said he'd tell the kid Lebron, "you don't have a clue."   

 

Your letter carrier may not get better his job, but professional football coaches get better, 

 

A universial maxim about experience, knowledge, practice, and subsequent success conflicts with objective data. In the NFL, many coaches get worse over time, e.g., Rex Ryan.

 

Many lawyers do, too. 

 

Keep in mind that there must be some objective measure to serve as evidence of success via experience.  

 

 

[Beck Water]

2 hours ago, Nihilarian said:

I agree. The GM is really only as good as the scouts that are giving him info on players. Plus, I'll bet that McD has some input into those defensive picks.  *cough cough* Boogie. 

 

Seriously, some picks simply don't work out and fans just need to let it go. So he couldn't find a WR in the draft and traded for Diggs, couldn't find that premier pass rusher, and signed Von Miller. This stuff tells me his scouts aren't all that great. 

 

Buffalo is a great team and it's mostly because of Beane. 

 

I think trading for a seasoned, proven top WR like Diggs wasn't about "couldn't find a WR in the draft".  I think he wanted a guy who could help develop Allen and help him take another step at the 3rd year of his career (as opposed to a mature vet like Kirk Cousins who can help develop his WR).

Pass rusher is a different issue, but who, that was reachable near our draft slot, would you have liked us to have taken?

 

It's not just how great your scouts are, it's where you draft as well.

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by Beck Water

[Beck Water]

1 hour ago, leonbus23 said:

Many lawyers do, too.

 

As an aside, just curious: how many interactions have you had with multiple (many) lawyers to be able to objectively assess whether they are worse, better, or the same, over time?  Not doubting you, it just seems unusual for a person to have that much interaction with many lawyers over time. 

 

Continuous improvement, professionally or personally, requires that one remain committed and dedicated to one's craft and continue to work hard and try to improve year by year.  Some people stay hungry.  Some people plateau, because they lose that fire to improve.

 

It seems obvious that by the time Rex wined and woo'ed Russ Brandon and the Pegulas into a big contract, he felt he had "arrived" and didn't have to continue to grind and study film and put in the hours.  He was "phoning it in".

 

On the other hand, when we hired Daboll, many here were against it, saying he had poor offenses (#29, 31, 20, 32) in 4 years as OC on 3 teams.  There were stories from one of his former QB about Daboll just screaming into the helmet and continually putting him down.  It seemed risky.

 

After 4 years as OC in Buffalo, at least some here have been saying we should have fired McDermott and handed the reins to Daboll. 

 

I think it's worth reiterating that under Dorsey, the Bills had the #3 offense in the league for points last season, and top 10 for both passing and rushing yards.  That matches 2020 under Daboll and is somewhat better than 2021 under Daboll.

[leonbus23]

23 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

As an aside, just curious: how many interactions have you had with multiple (many) lawyers to be able to objectively assess whether they are worse, better, or the same, over time?  Not doubting you, it just seems unusual for a person to have that much interaction with many lawyers over time. 

 

Continuous improvement, professionally or personally, requires that one remain committed and dedicated to one's craft and continue to work hard and try to improve year by year.  Some people stay hungry.  Some people plateau, because they lose that fire to improve.

 

It seems obvious that by the time Rex wined and woo'ed Russ Brandon and the Pegulas into a big contract, he felt he had "arrived" and didn't have to continue to grind and study film and put in the hours.  He was "phoning it in".

 

On the other hand, when we hired Daboll, many here were against it, saying he had poor offenses (#29, 31, 20, 32) in 4 years as OC on 3 teams.  There were stories from one of his former QB about Daboll just screaming into the helmet and continually putting him down.  It seemed risky.

 

After 4 years as OC in Buffalo, at least some here have been saying we should have fired McDermott and handed the reins to Daboll. 

 

I think it's worth reiterating that under Dorsey, the Bills had the #3 offense in the league for points last season, and top 10 for both passing and rushing yards.  That matches 2020 under Daboll and is somewhat better than 2021 under Daboll.

 

Haha. Not too many lawyers. My main point is that the broad generalization that the lawyer made doesn't mean anything. Cherry picking the examples of Belechick, LeBron, Reid (and himself) is meaningless without an objective standard. His claim is about experience with the implication that it results in objective success. His claim gets muddled in subjective self-reflection with the LaBron quote. But it's decontextualized pathos speak. LaBron got DWade and a star teammate with the Lakers. Belechick got Brady. Reid got Mahomes. He got his dream paralegal (maybe). So, his maxim, really means nothing. That was my point. If he wants people to stop complaining about Dorsey, he should provide the data you provided, not espouse some grand truth about experience coupled with the bias of his individual anecodotal example that highlights his age and profession. 

 

 

[gobills404]

9 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

That's pretty rough.  I get that success rate is not high for many drafts, but these are all Day 1-2 picks.  Boogie is bad to me because they went Groot the prior pick.  I'll always remember Dobbins going the pick after AJ.  Ford I can forgive, as that was considered a steal at the time.  Motor is just the RB life these days.  

Yeah no duh every GM is gonna look bad if you only focus on their worst picks. Let’s look at the league darling GM Howie Roseman and some of his day 1 and day 2 picks since 2019.

Andre Dillard - 1.22 - Couldn’t beat out a 7th rounder for the starting job, no longer in Philly.

Miles Sanders - 2. 53 - no longer in Philly

JJ Arcega whiteside - 2.57 - massive bust

Jalen Reagor - 1 pick before Justin Jefferson - hahhahahahha

Davion Taylor - 3.103 - cut after 2 years

Milton Williams - 3.73 - 4th string Dt

Oh and his first 3 picks last year COMBINED (Jordan Davis, Cam Jurgens, Nakobe Dean) played less snaps as rookies than Kaiir Elam.



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 30, 2023 by gobills404

[Jauronimo]

7 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

Maybe we should look at the whole draft, or at least the early days?

2019: 

1. Ed Oliver - can ball, just re-upped

2. Cody Ford - Looked promising his rookie season.  I think injuries ruined him, it happens.

3. Devin Singletary - solid RB for 4 years behind "meh" OL, solid pass pro for 3.  Got our Round 3 worth from him.

3. Knox - quality player, re-signed

Early round hit rate: 2/4, 3/4 if you count Singletary which I think one should

2020:

1. (Stefon "I am Him" Diggs)

2. AJ Epenesa - 6.5 sacks, 10 QB hits last season.  If he can improve on that this season, we've got something.  Since McD rotates DL, #4 playing 40% of snaps.

3. Zack Moss - brought Nyheim Hines in trade, who locked down KR/PR until his unfortunate close encounter with a JetSki

4. Gabe Davis - #2 WR for the team.  He ain't Tee Higgins, Devonta Smith, or Jalen Waddle, but he wasn't drafted in the 1st/high 2nd either.  Solid value in the 4th.

Hit rate: 2/4 (3/4 if you count Diggs)

2021:

1. Greg Rousseau - 8 sacks 14 QB hits last season.  Playing 49-56% of snaps.  Looks promising.

2. Boogie Basham - just traded, we'll see what he brought.

3. Spencer Brown - jury is still out.  has not locked down a spot. 

1/3, maybe 2/3 if Spencer improves.

2022:

1. Kaiir Elam - I don't know that I'd bet money on that #4 CB slot being locked down with him, but that could be me.  Has a learning curve.

2. James Cook - looking promising

3. Terrell Bernard - was competing for starting MLB.  We'll see.

Too soon to tell, might be 1/3, might be 3/3 when the dust settles

2023:

1. Dalton Kincaid - looking promising

2. O'Cyrus Torrance - looking promising

3. Dorian Williams - has a learning curve, despite folks wanting to hand him the MLB gig

Too soon to tell, might be 2/3, might be 3/3

 

Kinda bugs me when a guy looks at 6 out of 9-11 picks 🤷‍♀️ and also lists as a problem, a 3rd round RB who gave us 4 solid seasons.

 

 

And all of those guys are on a 53 man roster today.  Even Cody Ford. 

[Virgil]

38 minutes ago, gobills404 said:

Yeah no duh every GM is gonna look bad if you only focus on their worst picks. Let’s look at the league darling GM Howie Roseman and some of his day 1 and day 2 picks since 2019.

Andre Dillard - 1.22 - Couldn’t beat out a 7th rounder for the starting job, no longer in Philly.

Miles Sanders - 2. 53 - no longer in Philly

JJ Arcega whiteside - 2.57 - massive bust

Jalen Reagor - 1 pick before Justin Jefferson - hahhahahahha

Davion Taylor - 3.73 - cut after 2 years

Milton Williams - 3.73 - 4th string Dt

Oh and his first 3 picks last year COMBINED (Jordan Davis, Cam Jurgens, Nakobe Dean) played less snaps as rookies than Kaiir Elam.



 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How dare you come at me with logic, reason, and facts?!!!

[Dr.Sack]

I’ll be the first to drag Beane on the draft but he has done a good job plugging the holes of his lackluster drafts. 

[Orlando Buffalo]

On 2/13/2023 at 4:38 PM, Nextmanup said:

Regarding your last sentence, I also don't understand how Dorsey is supposed to evolve into a different, much better coordinator in one off-season.  Sure, he probably picked up some experience here and there and learned some things, generally, but he's going to be the same guy next September.

That's not good.

 

 

He now should know what he wants from each of his players and have had much more say in the crafting of the offensive talent. Daboll liked his players a certain way and hopefully Dorsey doesn't pull a Saffold.

17 hours ago, Virgil said:

 

That's pretty rough.  I get that success rate is not high for many drafts, but these are all Day 1-2 picks.  Boogie is bad to me because they went Groot the prior pick.  I'll always remember Dobbins going the pick after AJ.  Ford I can forgive, as that was considered a steal at the time.  Motor is just the RB life these days.  

yes he sucks in round 2, he is solid everywhere else. We have a winning team and y'all kvetch like we are about to start the drought part II. Virgil this is not primarily at you but the overall tone is absurd.

 

[Bob Jones]

12 hours ago, Dablitzkrieg said:

Can you imagine not realizing the draft is a crap shoot outside of the obvious talent?  Couldn't be any insane Bills fan.

Agreed. And what you’re really saying here is that the NFL scouts and GMs really aren’t any smarter than intelligent/seasoned fans who have been watching the NFL and college ball for decades. So I get a laugh when I frequently see posters in here denigrate other posters because “you’re just a couch GM…you’re not a professional like the guys in charge at OBD!” 🙄

 

Thanks for pointing out what should be obvious to anybody with a functioning brain. 😉

[newcam2012]

On 2/13/2023 at 1:51 PM, Shaw66 said:

Maybe you're young, but this statement, in my humble opinion, is amazingly naive.  Do you think that if Dorsey is an Offensive coordinator for the next 20 years, he won't be any better than he was this season?   That he'll never improve?

 

That's just wrong.   I've practiced law for 40 years, and I was so much better in year 5 than year 1, it was amazing.   Year 10 I was way ahead of year 5, and by year 20, well, that's when I hit my stride.   Ask Andy Reid, and he'll tell you the same thing about his coaching career.  Ask Belichick.  

 

I saw an interview after he won his most recent NBA championship.  He was asked what he would say to the 27-year-old Lebron (after his first championship) if he could sit in a room with him.  Lebron said he'd tell the kid Lebron, "you don't have a clue."   

 

Your letter carrier may not get better his job, but professional football coaches get better, for sure.  

This is true but it only paints part of the correct picture Shaw. Improvement is very likely over years of experience. However, that improvement doesn't always equate to being effective, productive, and winning. Time and experience is just one variable to consider.

 

More specifically, we don't know how good or bad Dorsey will be .