This place has become poisonous

[teef]

40 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I don’t read any of this as whiney. I just see fans being truly frustrated. To them, the Bills appear to have painted themselves into a corner, and fans think it’s going to take a miracle draft to fix it…or…a change of coaching strategy (that clearly isn’t coming). 

i really wasn't referring to anything specific in this thread.  i'm talking about things like the repeat threads that are just slightly reworded complaints that are already in a million threads.  at some point we get the picture, and it's just non-constructive.  

[SoCal Deek]

Just now, teef said:

i really wasn't referring to anything specific in this thread.  i'm talking about things like the repeat threads that are just slightly reworded complaints that are already in a million threads.  at some point we get the picture, and it's just non-constructive.  

True….but when you step back and look at it, it’s interesting how the debate has shifted this offseason. Most, if not all, of these threads are focused on the schemes, and therefore on the coaching staff. There’s very, very little player bashing going on here. I believe the fans are frustrated with the cul-de-sac that the organization has driven themselves down into….and after a few weeks it’s clear that the organization isn’t planning on making changes there (with the exception of the assistant secondary coach 🙄). Thus the frustration. Fans already don’t see much of a way out of that cul-de-sac in 2023. 

[BarleyNY]

16 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

True….but when you step back and look at it, it’s interesting how the debate has shifted this offseason. Most, if not all, of these threads are focused on the schemes, and therefore on the coaching staff. There’s very, very little player bashing going on here. I believe the fans are frustrated with the cul-de-sac that the organization has driven themselves down into….and after a few weeks it’s clear that the organization isn’t planning on making changes there (with the exception of the assistant secondary coach 🙄). Thus the frustration. Fans already don’t see much of a way out of that cul-de-sac in 2023. 

I have slowed my posting because it seems like I’m just repeating myself. We are barely into the off-season so there isn’t much happening. Free agency starts in about a month and then soon after draft talk will ramp up. But really nothing else besides running back the same staff, last season and how it ended to talk about right now. 

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, BarleyNY said:

I have slowed my posting because it seems like I’m just repeating myself. We are barely into the off-season so there isn’t much happening. Free agency starts in about a month and then soon after draft talk will ramp up. But really nothing else besides running back the same staff, last season and how it ended to talk about right now. 

I disagree on one point. There actually are things going on right now. Coaching changes are happening all across the league. THIS is the month when that happens. The Bills have shown that they’re not interested. Which tells us a lot about what to expect in 2023. With the team up against the cap, and a recently suspect draft track record, there are very few other variables in the equation…other than coaches. OBD has decided to stand pat, therefore proving that they’re blaming this year’s falling short on factors outside of their control. Is it right? Nobody knows for sure, but it’s clear that’s what the organization believes. 

[BarleyNY]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I disagree on one point. There actually are things going on right now. Coaching changes are happening all across the league. THIS is the month when that happens. The Bills have shown that they’re not interested. Which tells us a lot about what to expect in 2023. With the team up against the cap, and a recently suspect draft track record, there are very few other variables in the equation…other than coaches. OBD has decided to stand pat, therefore proving that they’re blaming this year’s falling short on factors outside of their control. Is it right? Nobody knows for sure, but it’s clear that’s what the organization believes. 

That's fair. And I think it’s reasonable to expect the coaches and FO to stay the course until we see otherwise. 

[Trogdor]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:47 PM, Shaw66 said:

Well, I've largely stayed out of this thread because a lot it is as you say.   But it started out making a different point, or at least I thought so.  The point was that a lot of fans seemed to be taking extremely negative positions about a team that is awfully close to being a great team in the league.  It's one thing to have intelligent discussions about what needs to be done to get better; it's another to talk about blowing things up, getting rid of coaches or the GM, etc.   

 

If we could poll 32 owners and ask them if they didn't have the HC, GM, and/or QB they have, which one in the league would they like, McDermott, Beane, and Allen would be in everyone's top 10 and probably in most cases, in the top 5.   So, complaining about how this team is being run in terms that suggest it's some kind of massive failure just doesn't make sense to me. 

The NFL is filled with teams who had promise and never put it together. I just don't want this to be the Philip Rivers Chargers. They just don't seem pressed at all to make changes to a system that isn't working in the playoffs. 

[Call_Of_Ktulu]

So do I take the Red pill or the Blue pill? 

[Fleezoid]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

True….but when you step back and look at it, it’s interesting how the debate has shifted this offseason. Most, if not all, of these threads are focused on the schemes, and therefore on the coaching staff. There’s very, very little player bashing going on here. I believe the fans are frustrated with the cul-de-sac that the organization has driven themselves down into….and after a few weeks it’s clear that the organization isn’t planning on making changes there (with the exception of the assistant secondary coach 🙄). Thus the frustration. Fans already don’t see much of a way out of that cul-de-sac in 2023. 

 

 

[Figster]

On 2/14/2023 at 8:10 AM, SoCal Deek said:

With all due respect, there’s a big difference between your ‘content with losing’ take away and my perception of the utter lack of preparation that we saw against the Bengals. Nobody wants to lose…obviously. My point is that the Bills simply don’t appear to be in the moment when the moment is there to be in. Too many collapses and head scratching lack of effort. I blame the coaches for that. Do I like watching them win games during the regular season. Sure! They’ve done that for quite awhile now. Now I want the Team to be laser focused at the moment when the games are there to be won or lost in the playoffs. 

Its a fair point. Under the circumstances I'm not sure laser focused was even possible for the coaches or players IMO. 

 

We both want changes on the coaching side of the equation. The problem is I don't see wholesale changes being made. To be clear I'm a big fan of Bills HC McD. OC and DC, not so much, on the DC side of things its hard to teach an old dog new tricks IMO. Frazier lacks killer instincts IMO. On the other side of the ball the Dorsey O lacks innovation.  Dorseys riding the Daboll playbook and Allens ability to improvise on any play IMO. 

 

You guys have all seen my thread on Ryan Fitzpatrick. In his 1st season with Chan Gailey back in 2010 for Buffalo Fitzpatrick passed for over 3,000 yards. Gaileys no name misfitz's we called them. Featuring Stevie Johnson. We all remember the day Fitzpatrick and the Bills beat the Pats 31 - 0. This was a team with very little actual talent on Offense IMO.  Again more recently, Fitzpatrick was united with Chan Gailey and the Dolphins.  Fitzpatrick imediately picked up right were he left off in the Gailey Offense. Gailey resigned from the Dolphins in 2021 because Tua was named the starter for the following season. The bond and sense of loyalty between Gailey and Fitzpatrick clearly evident. Fitzpatrick understanding and ability to run the Gailey Offense also clearly evident. Chan Gaileys retired now ands its highly unlikely the old fox will ever coach again IMO.   The Gailey playbook and how to use it still resides in the big brain of Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

Bringing Ryan Fitzpatrick back to Buffalo as a coach on Offense can help the Buffalo Bills win a Championship. 

 

 

 

Edited February 15, 2023 by Figster

[Ridgewaycynic2013]

7 minutes ago, Figster said:

The Gailey playbook and how to use it still resides in Ryan Fitzpatricks big brain.

[SoCal Deek]

28 minutes ago, Figster said:

Its a fair point. Under the circumstances I'm not sure laser focused was even possible for the coaches or players IMO. 

 

We both want changes on the coaching side of the equation. The problem is I don't see wholesale changes being made. To be clear I'm a big fan of Bills HC McD. OC and DC, not so much, on the DC side of things its hard to teach an old dog new tricks IMO. Frazier lacks killer instincts IMO. On the other side of the ball the Dorsey O lacks innovation.  Dorseys riding the Daboll playbook and Allens ability to improvise on any play IMO. We have a QB now and glorified QB coach pretending to be OC IMO. 

 

You guys have all seen my thread on Ryan Fitzpatrick. In his 1st season with Chan Gailey back in 2010 for Buffalo Fitzpatrick passed for over 3,000 yards. Gaileys no name misfitz's we called them. Featuring Stevie Johnson. We all remember the day Fitzpatrick and the Bills beat the Pats 31 - 0. This was a team with very little actual talent on Offense IMO.  Again more recently, Fitzpatrick was united with Chan Gailey and the Dolphins.  Fitzpatrick imediately picked up right were he left off in the Gailey Offense. Gailey resigned from the Dolphins in 2021 because Tua was named the starter for the following season. The bond and sense of loyalty between Gailey and Fitzpatrick clearly evident. Fitzpatrick understanding and ability to run the Gailey Offense also clearly evident. Chan Gaileys retired now ands its highly unlucky the old fox will ever coach again IMO.   The Gailey playbook and how to use it still resides in the big brain of Ryan Fitzpatrick.

 

Bringing Ryan Fitzpatrick back to Buffalo as a coach on Offense can help the Buffalo Bills win a Championship.  

I’m willing to give Dorsey time to create his own style but I am 100% done with Frazier. And the fact that he’s still there has made me lose most of what faith I had in McD. 

[Figster]

23 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m willing to give Dorsey time to create his own style but I am 100% done with Frazier. And the fact that he’s still there has made me lose most of what faith I had in McD. 

Dorsey had a whole season to create his own style and fell flat on his face vs Cinci IMO. I am however in agreement with you on deserving another season to prove himself because in all fairness its the right way to proceed. Just a little help from another source of playbook/play calling to add wrinkles. Some help in real time game adjustments. This can help Ken Dorsey succeed IMO. Myself personally, Josh Allen, like it our not, deserves everything Buffalo can do to help him on the coaching side of the equation. Expecting the Bills young OC Ken Dorsey to match wits with the likes of Offensive gurus the caliber of Andy Reid is a mistake IMO. Dorsey faces some of the best DC's in the game when he reaches the playoffs. Give him help. 

 

I worry less about the D because when healthy the Bills Secondary is second to none under the McD/Frazier philosophy IMO. Key word "healthy"

Edited February 14, 2023 by Figster

[Lfod]

It's entertainment for me. It doesn't change my life at all if the team does well or sucks. It's a lot more fun now than it has been for me to follow the team. 

 

I understand people are more invested than I am. People probably know a lot more about the game and the team than I do. 

 

I just don't understand if something that is supposed to be fun can make a person so negative then why do it? 

 

I'm not talking about the ups and downs wins and loses people go through. I'm just saying I read comments on this board that make me wonder if the person needs to step away from this as I don't think it's entertainment to them. 

 

I've noticed there is some toxicity as well. I've been told before not to feed the trolls. 

Edited February 14, 2023 by Lfod

[SoCal Deek]

12 minutes ago, Figster said:

Dorsey had a whole season to create his own style and fell flat on his face vs Cinci IMO. I am however in agreement with you on deserving another season to prove himself because in all fairness its the right way to proceed. Just a little help from another source of playbook/play calling to add wrinkles. Some help in real time game adjustments. This can help Ken Dorsey succeed IMO. Myself personally, Josh Allen, like it our not, deserves everything Buffalo can do to help him on the coaching side of the equation. Expecting the Bills young OC Ken Dorsey to match wits with the likes of Offensive gurus the caliber of Andy Reid is a mistake IMO. Dorsey faces some of the best DC's in the game when he reaches the playoffs. Give him help. 

 

I worry less about the D because when healthy the Bills Secondary is second to none under the McD/Frazier philosophy IMO. Key word "healthy"

I don’t ‘worry’ about Frazier. I know exactly what we’re going to get from him. Been there, DONE with that!

[Figster]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

I don’t ‘worry’ about Frazier. I know exactly what we’re going to get from him. Been there, DONE with that!

I understand. 

 

You know for a poisonous thread /site we seem to be doing just fine ;  )

 

Sorry OP...

Edited February 14, 2023 by Figster

[Patrick Duffy]

6 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

I don’t read any of this as whiney. I just see fans being truly frustrated. To them, the Bills appear to have painted themselves into a corner, and fans think it’s going to take a miracle draft to fix it…or…a change of coaching strategy (that clearly isn’t coming). 

 

Although it's definitely a few posters here and there that are 100% whiners, some are pretty bad whiners so much their breathe prolly smells like similac formula.

 

But I agree that many (like myself) are just sharing frustration and sometimes ppl just have to vent once in a while whether it's on here or with another fan/friend, Bills fan etc. That being said, there's always some posters that will say they are whining, crying etc when ppl do vent. So that's my 2 cents anyways....lol

[Figster]

4 minutes ago, Patrick Duffy said:

 

Although it's definitely a few posters here and there that are 100% whiners, some are pretty bad whiners so much their breathe prolly smells like similac formula.

 

But I agree that many (like myself) are just sharing frustration and sometimes ppl just have to vent once in a while whether it's on here or with another fan/friend, Bills fan etc. That being said, there's always some posters that will say they are whining, crying etc when ppl do vent. So that's my 2 cents anyways....lol

If you want to brainstorm something football related concerning the Buffal Bills, TBD is an excellent place to start IMO. This site rocks when it comes to having a high number of knowledgeable posters IMO. I for one don't mind hearing a few crazier takes from time to time. Meltdowns.

 

We care, we all do...

 

 

[Augie]

7 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

True….but when you step back and look at it, it’s interesting how the debate has shifted this offseason. Most, if not all, of these threads are focused on the schemes, and therefore on the coaching staff. There’s very, very little player bashing going on here. I believe the fans are frustrated with the cul-de-sac that the organization has driven themselves down into….and after a few weeks it’s clear that the organization isn’t planning on making changes there (with the exception of the assistant secondary coach 🙄). Thus the frustration. Fans already don’t see much of a way out of that cul-de-sac in 2023. 

 

To be fair, it’s not just the safeties coach. They also brought in Al Holcomb as a “Senior Defensive Assistant”, for better or worse, and are replacing the WR coach. Is Holcomb able to add anything of value? Will our DB’s start a few large mother-may-I steps forward?  Is he the DC in waiting? I honestly have no idea what he might add. He has been a DC before.

 

I also don’t know what happened behind the scenes which Chad Hall at WR coach. Is that addition by subtraction? Again, I have no idea. Sometimes things that seem to be little at the time turn out to be more than what we realized in the moment. But it’s true that they seem to be mostly staying the course. A little help for Dorsey would make me feel better, but maybe improvements in personnel will help make it flow better.  

 

It just seems our in door is connected to Charlotte while our out door seems to lead to Jacksonville. 

 

https://thebuffalofanatics.com/buffalo-bills-hire-al-holcomb-as-senior-defensive-assistant/

 

EDIT: Looks like they moved on from an assistant OL coach, too. Not sure if he found a better gig or Kromer decided he just wasn’t good enough. He’d been there prior to Kromer (2019?) but no idea what happened behind the scenes. No BIG changes, but like the rest of the league, we ARE making some changes.  I just hope it helps!!! 

 

 

.

Edited February 14, 2023 by Augie

[Airseven]

6 hours ago, teef said:

i really wasn't referring to anything specific in this thread.  i'm talking about things like the repeat threads that are just slightly reworded complaints that are already in a million threads.  at some point we get the picture, and it's just non-constructive.  

 

It's an internet message board. You might be in the wrong spot for what you're looking for.  

[LABILLBACKER]

1 hour ago, SoCal Deek said:

I’m willing to give Dorsey time to create his own style but I am 100% done with Frazier. And the fact that he’s still there has made me lose most of what faith I had in McD. 

You guys sure are more patient than me. I was done with Leslie somewhere between Houston and the AFCCG in Arrowhead.  Long before the fun of :13......

[Augie]

4 minutes ago, Airseven said:

 

It's an internet message board. You might be in the wrong spot for what you're looking for.  

 

It may be the internet, but there are some people on the internet who do much better than others. It’s “the others” some have an issue with.

 

Believe me, I’m on other message boards where this repetitive and redundant personal gratification look-at-me threads simply do not exist. Seriously. I can be done. Because it’s on the internet does not mean it should be ruined (or at least harmed) by a small minority within the population. 

[Figster]

13 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

You guys sure are more patient than me. I was done with Leslie somewhere between Houston and the AFCCG in Arrowhead.  Long before the fun of :13......

For Allens sake and the sake of the Buffalo Bills franchise a sense of urgency is needed in my humble opinion.

 

Patients need not apply...

[Shaw66]

2 hours ago, Trogdor said:

The NFL is filled with teams who had promise and never put it together. I just don't want this to be the Philip Rivers Chargers. They just don't seem pressed at all to make changes to a system that isn't working in the playoffs. 

That's a fair comment, and points out what's really a difference in perspective.   First, I never thought Rivers could hold a candle to a talent like Allen.  The Philip Rivers Chargers were his team, and I've always felt that they didn't win more was due in large part to Rivers.  Same isn't true for Allen.  If he doesn't win Lombardi's, it's certainly going to be on someone else, and that someone for now is McDermott.   

 

The difference in perspective is your perception/fear is that the past will predict the future.  That is, that things won't change.   And while I agree that that CAN happen, I don't think that's what will happen, because that's not who McDermott is.  McDermott isn't may way or the highway in the usual sense.   He's willing to change his schemes and philosophies; his "way" is learning and continuous improvement.   He will play his 4-2-5 only so long as it gets him the results he wants.  That D does get results - it's one of the best in the league.   It just needs to be tweaked here and there, with personnel or strategy and tactics.   It won't be wholesale change, because part of the system is continuity - run the same system with the same core players and you can rotate a lot of good football players through the other positions.   But there'll be change, and it will make them better. 

 

They'll change how they play the playoffs, too.   I throw out the Bengals game, because I think the team had come apart weeks before that, under the pressure of various things.   I think losing Miller was a big emotional blow.   But even if that's a fair assessment, the Bills are going to evaluate their playoff performance and learn from it.   In particular, they're going to learn what they already knew but couldn't muster in the final game, and that's the need to increase the level of hitting - persistent hitting, so even when you're behind on the scoreboard, you know you're beating them physically.   That knowledge helps a lot in the second half.  

 

I just don't foresee McDermott doing the same things, over and over, and losing repeatedly.  Throughout his high school and college careers, he was always about being physically tough and about finding new and better ways to win.   He's not stopping now. 

[Buffalo Ballin]

14-4 record this season.

 

I'll take this every single time.

We don't want to go through another 20 year playoff drought.

[Chaos]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

14-4 record this season.

 

I'll take this every single time.

We don't want to go through another 20 year playoff drought.

Total false choice premise. 

[Nihilarian]

 

This GM, HC have already proven they can fix what's wrong. Last year (2021) the Buffalo run defense was bad and they corrected it, #13 in rush yards allowed to #5. Last year 26 rushing TDs, this year 7 rush TDs! 

 

The GM saw that the O line played pretty good at the end of last season so he retained a lot of them...they regressed with a supposed better O line coach. Not his fault. 

 

Now, they both (Buffalo GM,HC) saw what we all saw, in that both lines played poorly against the Bengals and not having Von Miller out there was a real problem for the Buffalo pass rush. No pressure on the Cincy QB and Buffalo QB Josh Allen was under pressure all game. 

 

I trust that they understand what the problems are and will work to fix them. A better O line, run game, and another pass rusher JIC. The WR corps should be fine if Allen has time in the pocket. If he doesn't the 2nd year OC should work to setup a plan B to get the ball out quicker along with a decent run game.

 

Have some faith. 

[John from Riverside]

1 hour ago, Chaos said:

Total false choice premise. 

It’s not really
 

One team wins the Super Bowl every year that doesn’t make everybody else losers

 

The problem is your expectations not the bills

[Chaos]

35 minutes ago, John from Riverside said:

It’s not really
 

One team wins the Super Bowl every year that doesn’t make everybody else losers

 

The problem is your expectations not the bills

Sometimes it is hard to understand things.  You might want to try harder. The other poster suggests their are two choices, 1) stand pat and go 14-4 or 2)make a change and have a 20 year drought.  These are not the only two choice. 

[Patrick Duffy]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

14-4 record this season.

 

I'll take this every single time.

We don't want to go through another 20 year playoff drought.

So you'll take not being good enough in playoffs every time? Because that 14-4 means nothing when getting knocked out post season by the 2nd round

[John from Riverside]

16 minutes ago, Chaos said:

Sometimes it is hard to understand things.  You might want to try harder. The other poster suggests their are two choices, 1) stand pat and go 14-4 or 2)make a change and have a 20 year drought.  These are not the only two choice. 

Or you dig deeper you have to go to 14 and four in order to go to the rest of the way instead of bitching about the team nonstop. We should be looking at how we’re going to get back there again.