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Why do Beane/McDermott place low value on selecting WR's in the draft?


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2 hours ago, djp14150 said:


 

your premise was Bills not drafting WRs high.

 

i said they traded their 1st for a WR. How do you not count that?

 

as I also said ( you ignored)…. Look at the success rate in drafting WRs with top 20 picks.  Even top 50 drsfted.  Their is a high failure rate.  They don’t plan wasting a pick on an unpredictable position.

 

As for Hodgins…..

 

he didn’t play STs which hurt him.  Buffalo hasn’t had big injuries with Diggs/ Davis for him to get a shot.

 

from a  structure standpoint in buffalo

 

5 WRs on a team—2 outside and slot, one who has speed if the others don’t. The 5 the could go to a rookie. You might have another on the team for returning/ special teams.

 

thsts common in the nfl if you are back ups behind 2 very good players snd don’t get a chance until a PS pluck on you are a FA.

 

 

You can say the same with any position in the draft. No doubt, the draft is a crap shoot and not every player is going to work out. But, the potential to get an elite, game changing player is at the top of the draft, especially in the first round. 
 

My point about Diggs is you need more than one good WR on offense. I stated previously the Bills used a 1st round draft pick on him and he was well worth it. The next highest draft used on WR was on Zay Jones, the rest have been between the 4th and 7th rounds. 
 

Look at the Bengals, both Ja’Marr Chase and Tee Higgins were first round picks. Tyler Boyd was a second round pick. Bengals gave Burrow great weapons and spent high draft picks capital on Chase and Higgins and it’s been paying off for them as they already went to one Superbowl and are poised to go to another Superbowl. It’s frustrating knowing Burrow hasn’t been in the league as long as Allen, but he’s had more success. I blame the lack of weapons this year around Allen, the high amount of defensive players drafted in the early rounds that have underperformed, and coaching. Sorry, these lower round WR’s take time to develop and we’re in a win now mode. 

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I think it’s for the same reason that we don’t draft pass protectors run blockers
 

Josh Allen is the ultimate Band-Aid

 

And he give them credit leaning on Josh has got them multiple AFC East, championships and playoffs births but look what happens when we get to the playoffs. We get bounced before we make it to the ultimate goal.

 

I say right here right now the Buffalo Bills will never see a Super Bowl until they formulate this team in such a way that Josh Allen doesn’t have to do everything to win it

 

He’s super man, but even superman and kryptonite

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4 hours ago, ddaryl said:

Why do they suck at drafting and developing OL?

 

why did we do little to help the offense the last few drafts?

 

why do they not get TE's more involved in the passing attack?

 

why do we not have a short game to counter teams who blitz or play us deep?

 

WHY ?

WHY? 

 

WHY?

 

 

 

Because the Bills' offense has been very effective, and one of the best in the league, the last couple of years and up to late October this year.  The 2nd half of this season, things have dropped off, and it was too late to make any moves of significance to address it.  I wouldn't call signing Beasley and Brown off the street moves of significance.

 

Clearly, some changes need to be made, but let's not forget that the Bills have won 10, 13, 11, and 13 games over the last 4 seasons and have won 4 playoff games over that time period.  They also have won 3 division titles in the last 3 years.  The Bengals, as of right now, are a better team than the Bills and it showed on Sunday.  With a few tweaks, the Bills can be right back in the conversation.  I think that some fresh thinking schematically, particularly on defense, would help tremendously.  As has been said above, the Bills don't vary their defense scheme very much and other teams know how to prepare for it and take advantage of it, particularly good team.  The Bills' offensive schemes, this year in particular, also left a lot to be desired.  They needed more slants, screens, etc. - get the ball out quickly to neutralize the pass rush. 

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4 hours ago, Jerry Jabber said:

You can say the same with any position in the draft. No doubt, the draft is a crap shoot and not every player is going to work out. But, the potential to get an elite, game changing player is at the top of the draft, especially in the first round. 
 

My point about Diggs is you need more than one good WR on offense. I stated previously the Bills used a 1st round draft pick on him and he was well worth it. The next highest draft used on WR was on Zay Jones, the rest have been between the 4th and 7th rounds. 
 

Look at the Bengals, both Ja’Marr Chase and Tee Higgins were first round picks. Tyler Boyd was a second round pick. Bengals gave Burrow great weapons and spent high draft picks capital on Chase and Higgins and it’s been paying off for them as they already went to one Superbowl and are poised to go to another Superbowl. It’s frustrating knowing Burrow hasn’t been in the league as long as Allen, but he’s had more success. I blame the lack of weapons this year around Allen, the high amount of defensive players drafted in the early rounds that have underperformed, and coaching. Sorry, these lower round WR’s take time to develop and we’re in a win now mode. 


 

Higgins  was not a 1st rd pick.

 

Davis is perfectly fine. Knox is fine. RBs aren’t the problrm

 

its about play call and execution.

 

many talked of being drained this season with everything.

 

Cincinnati is not better.  It comes down to game plan and execution

 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Rocbillsfan1 said:

2 years ago our starters were diggs brown Beasley McKenzie with Davis as #4 and impressing as a rookie. 
 

last year we had diggs sanders Beasley Davis. 
 

to say we never gave him tools is beyond idiotic. The roster construction failed this year as crowder got hurt and Davis failed under pressure of trying to be #2 and McKenzie severely regressing and not being reliable. I don’t think anyone was seriously questioning our playmakers the past 3 years. As of right now though yea we need to put in work to fix this position. 

The problem is we didn't plan to replace those guys.  The WR group just got worse and worse and now we are stuck needing to restock the cupboard.

 

If your team is signing RETIRED players to start in playoff games, your teams WRs suck.

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The staples of the Daboll offense slowly eroded as the season went on.  Maybe it was Allens arm.  Maybe playcalling or both.  The short and intimidate throws vanished beside Diggs stop routes outside.   

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24 minutes ago, FireChans said:

The problem is we didn't plan to replace those guys.  The WR group just got worse and worse and now we are stuck needing to restock the cupboard.

 

If your team is signing RETIRED players to start in playoff games, your teams WRs suck.

I agree. McKenzie and Davis did not live up to expectations and crowder got hurt. Josh has had weapons in previous years and it doesn’t matter if they come from trades, free agency or draft picks. Now we are kind of forced into drafting at this point unfortunately .

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1 hour ago, djp14150 said:


 

Higgins  was not a 1st rd pick.

 

Davis is perfectly fine. Knox is fine. RBs aren’t the problrm

 

its about play call and execution.

 

many talked of being drained this season with everything.

 

Cincinnati is not better.  It comes down to game plan and execution

 

 

 

 

Had to look at it again, you’re right, Higgins is a second round pick. Still, much higher than the rest of the Bills WR’s outside of Diggs.

 

Sorry, Davis is not a legit #2 WR. Maybe #3 or #4. Seeing stats like 10 targets and 3 receptions in a game for Davis is embarrassing! As FireChans stated above, if your team is bringing in retired WR’s to start in playoff games, then your receivers suck!

 

I do agree with you about playcalling and execution. Ever since the second half of the Packers game, the Bills offense has struggled. In his first season as OC, Dorsey showed he was a downgrade from Daboll. I would love to see the Bills fire Dorsey and bring in a seasoned OC who can make adjustments throughout the season, but doubt it happens.

 

IMO, Bills are not better than the Bengals. They’re either the second or third best team in the conference. 

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Wide Receivers don't play defense is the answer to the OP's question.

 

So we heavily draft defense and then put them in a passive, nearly prevent style that doesn't work against good offenses. I got really tired of hearing the announcers say "he was wide open" or " there was nobody anywhere near the receiver" as i kept hearing Sunday.

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4 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Wide Receivers don't play defense is the answer to the OP's question.

 

So we heavily draft defense and then put them in a passive, nearly prevent style that doesn't work against good offenses. I got really tired of hearing the announcers say "he was wide open" or " there was nobody anywhere near the receiver" as i kept hearing Sunday.

O dont always agree with Cowherd, but its hard to argue against anything he said here

 

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2 hours ago, djp14150 said:


 

Higgins  was not a 1st rd pick.

 

Davis is perfectly fine. Knox is fine. RBs aren’t the problrm

 

its about play call and execution.

 

many talked of being drained this season with everything.

 

Cincinnati is not better.  It comes down to game plan and execution

 

 

 

 

Those things need work, but the OL isn’t good. Josh can cover some of that up, just not enough to mask all the issues. 

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3 minutes ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

O dont always agree with Cowherd, but its hard to argue against anything he said here

 

I think we are all seeing it now accept the FO and it’s going to bite them in the bummmmmmm

 

sorry we aren’t winning a championship with Sean mcdermott

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On 1/23/2023 at 5:37 PM, Jerry Jabber said:

Since Beane/McDermott have been with the Bills since 2017, the Bills have had seven 1st round picks, five of which have been used on the defense, two of them for the offense [Allen, Diggs (1st used in the trade to the Vikings)]. Without a doubt, Allen is a generational talent at QB, but outside of Diggs, the Bills WR is full of underachievers. Davis underwhelmed as a #2 WR and is a #3 WR at best. McKenzie could not handle the starting slot WR role. Crowder, Shakir and the others were either slot or gadget type players. Beasley and Brown were brought back to the team because of how badly the WR corps performed (outside of Diggs). 

 

Since 2017, the highest the Bills drafted a WR was in the 2nd round [Zay Jones], the rest have been all between the 4th and 7th rounds:

Ray Ray McCloud – 6th round (2018)

Austin Proehl – 7th round (2018)

2019 – No WRs drafted

Gabe Davis – 4th round (2020)

Isaiah Hodgins – 6th round (2020)

Marquez Stevenson – 6th round (2021)

Khalil Shakir – 5th round (2022)

 

I don't understand why the Bills have not given Allen all the tools to be successful? Beane maneuvered up and down the draft board to get in position to draft Allen, then gave him a $258 million dollar contract. Why does Beane/McDermott undervalue the WR position so much? Diggs cannot do everything on his own. When Diggs is double covered and taken out of the game, the rest of the WR's struggle to get open and catch on a consistent basis. With drafting lower round WR's, most of the time, they're not going to be NFL ready in year one. It took Hodgins to year three to show he can stay healthy and show some promise, but instead, the Bills kept Shakir on the active roster and put Hodgins on the Practice Squad, by which Hodgins was signed by the Giants. So if it takes Shakir three years to show promise, are the Bills going to take another low round rookie and keep that unproven rookie over a player they took the time to develop and train (like Hodgins?) Hate to say it, but I feel Beane/McDermott value RB's higher than WR's as we've seen Singletary and Moss drafted in the 3rd and Cook in the second. 

 

Bottom line, Allen cannot do it all. Expecting Allen to continually stretch out plays, make things happen with his feet does not work out 100% of the time. Chiefs and Bengals have multiple weapons for Mahomes and Burrow, if the Bills are serious about winning a Superbowl, they need to give the same type of receivers to Allen before they waste all his good years.

We drafted Zay Jones in the second round and he didn't work out.  When I think about it: Jones, Ford, Dawkins, Espinoza were all 2nd round picks.  We don't seem to do well in round 2.  

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1 hour ago, Gunsgoodtime said:

O dont always agree with Cowherd, but its hard to argue against anything he said here

 

I agree with all this, but Cowherd failing to mention Buffalo’s defensive failures is strange. He could make the point that McD is a defensive coach, and the defense also failed. Instead he mentions all the defensive players we’ve invested in, but doesn’t mention their lack of impact. He goes on to say the Cowboys were ready to play, but they have an offensive coach in McCarthy, and they did nothing on offense. It was their defense that kept them in the game. Cowherd is right, but he focuses on offense, while playoff football needs both sides of the ball to show up. It’s to be expected though. His gig is talking up the big time QB’s. 

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I believe they feel they can find good value at later rounds for a WR.  At the end of last season I thought they had with Gabe.  I believe a better OC would have utilized the WRs we have better.  They really felt the way to get over the hump was to draft Rousseau.  Last year they felt they needed a CB cause of the injury.  Now they could have still prioritized a WR no doubt.  But I think it kinda made sense how they drafted.  I did not like going DE back to back however.  At all. 

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It’s not that they don’t value WRs, it’s that they don’t trust their ability to evaluate them.  They (think they) understand defensive evaluations and have had a lot more success there.  
 

The scouting department is rotten to the core and needs to be thoroughly rebuilt.

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15 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said:

It’s not that they don’t value WRs, it’s that they don’t trust their ability to evaluate them.  They (think they) understand defensive evaluations and have had a lot more success there.  
 

The scouting department is rotten to the core and needs to be thoroughly rebuilt.

FWIW I don't trust their ability either on WRs, OL, DE, DTs either. A first round CB that can't sniff the field makes me want to add that to the list

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