Allen: "The Fumble" Context

[Mikie2times]

As far as I'm aware the Miracle in the Meadowlands is the only other time in NFL history a team was in position to run out the clock then preceded to fumble with the other team scoring a TD to take the lead. 

 

While I have several situations I don't care for the direction of our coaching, I don't think we should be attacking the logic on this play. 41 seconds were left, enough time for us to drive the field and tie the game. Which means enough time for Minnesota to have done the same had we taken the safety. Imagine how bad the coaching decision would have looked if we took the intentional safety, then Minnesota drove the field and kicked a game winner? One other time in NFL history this has occurred. It was the correct decision to run the sneak. Perhaps the coaching tip you hope would occur is just telling Josh not to rush. Clean handoff is priority #1, if it results in a Safety it's not the worst thing but any QB in the NFL should be expected to take a handoff and not lose yardage. It's unlikely any of us will witness something like this again.    

[John Gianelli]

Why not roll out Josh? If he's sure he can gain a yard or two, let him run. If he thinks he'll get sacked, throw the ball away.

[Beast]

I don’t know if the sneak was the proper call. Why? Because we arguably have the worst interior line in the league. 
 

What is the proper call there? I’m not sure. Maybe a quick pitch to the outside? A greater chance for a loss and a safety but the Bills had some success today outside running the ball. Maybe a quick pass from the shotgun? 

[Riverboat Ritchie]

I agree with call but the issue is that, in hindsight, maybe one play in shotgun would have been good as everyone knew that was coming and for whatever reason Josh in tight situation (tn game last year) chokes sometimes.  Why didn’t we do the Gabe push there. It may have at least allowed for fumble recovery. Who knows. 8 year old can snap the ball. Unreal loss

[Big Blitz]

The only context I need that should be disturbing to every fan because at some point you lose the room and you will never shake the “chokers” label is that this is 2 unbelievable and historic losses in a calendar year.  
 

Do we want to go back to the Arizona game?

 

Lets throw in blowing a 14 point lead in the 4th quarter at Houston. 
 

 

We’re approaching “Tony Dungy, you’ve taken this team as far it can go” territory.

 

I don’t want to be.  But you can’t keep f***** losing like this. 

[GoBills808]

It's really tough when you can't reliably win short yardage situations on offense

[Shaw66]

10 minutes ago, John Gianelli said:

Why not roll out Josh? If he's sure he can gain a yard or two, let him run. If he thinks he'll get sacked, throw the ball away.

I agree.  Eliminate thes risk on the bad snap. 

 

Live with the safety if it happens. But avoid the td. 

[Big Turk]

They had 3 downs to make sure we get out of the endzone to be able to run the clock out. The sneak was dumb because everyone knew it was coming. Allen running from the shotgun to the outside would have likely sealed the game.

[BananaB]

Too much can go wrong on a sneak that close to our endzone. Jmo 

 

 

[DabillsDaBillsDaBills]

I'll agree that taking an intentional safety there would've been a ludicrously bad choice. Johnston is a complete moron for even suggesting it. 

 

Now for the actual play call of QB sneak? There's some debate there I think. The Vikes were 100% selling out on the sneak and very well may have forced a safety (if there wasn't a fumble). 

 

Our o-line was getting caved all day (again) 

[TheBrownBear]

2 minutes ago, Big Turk said:

They had 3 downs to make sure we get out of the endzone to be able to run the clock out. The sneak was dumb because everyone knew it was coming. Allen running from the shotgun to the outside would have likely sealed the game.

That was my thought.  Stick him in the gun with the intention to run and provide a couple pass catching options should he get stuck in the end zone.  

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

14 minutes ago, John Gianelli said:

Why not roll out Josh? If he's sure he can gain a yard or two, let him run. If he thinks he'll get sacked, throw the ball away.

 

Option C. Unfortunately with the way Allen is playing right now you have to factor in that he might force a ball into tight coverage trying to make a play.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

4 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I agree.  Eliminate thes risk on the bad snap. 

 

Live with the safety if it happens. But avoid the td. 

 

Do you trust Allen right now to not try and force a play? 

[Stank_Nasty]

1986 was the last time a defensive score took the lead inside 1 min left. Nearly 40 freaking years…

 

Glad to be part of yet another anomalous loss. Throw it up on the list with the others of the last couple of years. 🙄

[TBBills Fan]

16 minutes ago, John Gianelli said:

Why not roll out Josh? If he's sure he can gain a yard or two, let him run. If he thinks he'll get sacked, throw the ball away.

 

 

I always hoping for that play to be called or audibled to as soon as they got the ball back.  

 

same formation, 3 options, run, pass, throw away.  Just no pick, and if a safety happens it happens as long as no pick 

 

Then they ran it up

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MPT]

22 minutes ago, KzooMike said:

As far as I'm aware the Miracle in the Meadowlands is the only other time in NFL history a team was in position to run out the clock then preceded to fumble with the other team scoring a TD to take the lead. 

 

While I have several situations I don't care for the direction of our coaching, I don't think we should be attacking the logic on this play. 41 seconds were left, enough time for us to drive the field and tie the game. Which means enough time for Minnesota to have done the same had we taken the safety. Imagine how bad the coaching decision would have looked if we took the intentional safety, then Minnesota drove the field and kicked a game winner? One other time in NFL history this has occurred. It was the correct decision to run the sneak. Perhaps the coaching tip you hope would occur is just telling Josh not to rush. Clean handoff is priority #1, if it results in a Safety it's not the worst thing but any QB in the NFL should be expected to take a handoff and not lose yardage. It's unlikely any of us will witness something like this again.    

 

But you don't take the intentional safety on 1st down. You let Josh run around in the end zone then throw it away or take an opportunity if one presents itself. You take the intentional safety on 4th down. Then the Vikings have to get a field goal in less than 10 seconds from their own side of the field with no timeouts.

[JerseyBills]

Could have taken 4 downs or 25+ seconds

 

3 downs to throw it away and 4th down to take the S

 

Leave Minny with under 20 seconds and 0 tos

[MPT]

12 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

Option C. Unfortunately with the way Allen is playing right now you have to factor in that he might force a ball into tight coverage trying to make a play.

 

Yeah but he's also playing like that because he's trying too hard to win the game on one play. If the game is already won, he's not going to make a risky throw.

[Einstein]

You have to know your players limitations.

 

A sneak may be appropriate for some teams in that situation, but not ours.

 

Our interior o-line was getting blown up the entire second half. Why do we think that will change at the goal line when the Vikings need to stuff the Bills?

 

Put Allen in shotgun, let him look for a quick pass, or scramble, or throw it away. A quick swing pass in that situation likely gets a couple yards. Maybe a shovel pass. I don’t know. Pretty much anything but what they did.

 

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Edited November 14, 2022 by Einstein

[Ethan in Cleveland]

41 minutes ago, Riverboat Ritchie said:

I agree with call but the issue is that, in hindsight, maybe one play in shotgun would have been good as everyone knew that was coming and for whatever reason Josh in tight situation (tn game last year) chokes sometimes.  Why didn’t we do the Gabe push there. It may have at least allowed for fumble recovery. Who knows. 8 year old can snap the ball. Unreal loss

They did motion Davis behind Allen to push him forward