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Need upgrades at WR


Jerry Jabber
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1 minute ago, ßookie_tech said:

Once they recommit to the run game, things will begin to open up. 

I disagree. We haven’t had a run game in a few years. Things were “opened up” last year and the year before. The problem is the overall talent of the receiving corp outside of Diggs. Hence the reason for this thread. 

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On 11/6/2022 at 2:20 PM, Dr.Sack said:

CBS convinced Allen has a sore arm. Don’t need WRs if your QB can’t throw. 

Yeah. That 80 yard bomb that hit Davis in the chest at the end of last week is a QB who can’t through. 
 

4 minutes ago, ßookie_tech said:

Once they recommit to the run game, things will begin to open up. 

I agree. The run game will NOT a win is games but it looked good enough at times to be somewhat effective. The team just move away from it! Used properly it will keep opposing Ds ho eat and help with the passing game. That said yes we need a good 2. Davis isn’t good enough. 

Edited by AlfaBill
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On 11/6/2022 at 3:18 PM, Jerry Jabber said:

I hate to say it, but losing Beasley and Sanders has hurt the Bills offense. The dropoff between Beasley and McKenzie has been huge. Since put in the #2 WR role, Davis hasn’t had the same kind of production. 
 

Hopefully Von’s recruitment of OBJ will payoff as we need a #2 WR. If that happens and Davis goes back to being a #3 WR, hopefully his production will go up. In regards to the slot receiver position, hopefully Hines will be used more in that role as McKenzie has underperformed in that role so far this season.

 

I think it's fair to say that Davis and McKenzie have not stepped up as was expected of them pre-season.

 

However, I thought this quote from Dorsey's presser yesterday was telling:

 

Quote

"What we try to stress with Josh especially is once the plays are in, trust your reads, trust your progressions, trust your eyes and where that read takes you, then that's where you go," Dorsey said. "Don't rely on any one thing. Don't rely on any one person, and I think that's when we're at our best is when we're doing that.

 

What he's implying is what some of us see on film: Josh may be a bit over-focused on throwing to Diggs and to Davis, even if there are other players who are more open and have a chance to make a play.

 

Also this:

Quote

One of the first stats Dorsey said he looks at after a game is how many receivers got multiple targets. 

"It just creates issues for a defense when you can create multiple guys with multiple targets, especially when they're at different positions," he said. "So I think that's a that's going to be obviously a continued focus for us moving forward. That makes you difficult to defend when you can be multiple in in those different areas."

 

Davis and Knox and McKenzie can't throw themselves the ball.

Edited by Beck Water
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2 minutes ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think it's fair to say that Davis and McKenzie have not stepped up as was expected of them pre-season.

 

However, I thought this quote from Dorsey's presser yesterday was telling:

 

 

What he's implying is what some of us see on film: Josh may be a bit over-focused on throwing to Diggs and to Davis, even if there are other players who are more open and have a chance to make a play.

 

Also this:

 

Davis and Knox and McKenzie can't throw themselves the ball.

Here's what we learned against the Jets:

 

Diggs can get open against anyone; the other WRs on staff have trouble against really good defenses with good defensive backfields.

 

I wanted OBJ 2 months ago; I want him even more now after the Jets game.

 

Need more raw talent and consistency at receiving positions.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Here's what we learned against the Jets:

 

Diggs can get open against anyone; the other WRs on staff have trouble against really good defenses with good defensive backfields.

 

I wanted OBJ 2 months ago; I want him even more now after the Jets game.

 

Need more raw talent and consistency at receiving positions.

 

I would like more talent at receiving positions.  I was one of the people who was not happy this off season that we didn't do more at OL and WR.

 

But "here's what we learned against the Jets", maybe speak for yourself?

 

The all-22 isn't out yet, but what I saw on most plays I looked at were at least 1, usually 2, NFL-open options on most plays.  Josh usually has options, for whatever reason he simply isn't taking them or is waiting too long in the play looking for Diggs or Davis.

 

Diggs had 5 catches for 93 yards in the first half, none in the second half; why is that, if he can "get open against anyone" (or any coverage?)

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3 hours ago, Beck Water said:

 

I think it's fair to say that Davis and McKenzie have not stepped up as was expected of them pre-season.

 

However, I thought this quote from Dorsey's presser yesterday was telling:

 

 

What he's implying is what some of us see on film: Josh may be a bit over-focused on throwing to Diggs and to Davis, even if there are other players who are more open and have a chance to make a play.

 

Also this:

 

Davis and Knox and McKenzie can't throw themselves the ball.

Davis can’t catch either

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3 minutes ago, BananaB said:

Davis can’t catch either

 

It's not as bad as the #s because he's tagged as the target on some balls that really weren't catchable for him - Josh's 4Q INT for example  - but that might be 10% of his targets and bring him up to 55% catch rate.

 

He's not catching as well as need him to, though, for reals. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, ßookie_tech said:

Once they recommit to the run game, things will begin to open up. 

 

A run game would help, but I'd bet that other receivers are open more than their targets show.

 

There were 34 pass attempts on Sunday.   One was apparently a throwaway to which no target was assigned, so 33.

15 of them went to Davis and Diggs, of which 7 were completed (46.6%)

2 others were deep overthrows to Kumerow and Hines. (0%)

 

Of the remaining 16 throws to Singletary, Cook, McKenzie, and Knox, 68.7% of them were completed.

 

I'm gonna make a wild guess that if I were to go look at the 10 incompletions thrown to Davis, Diggs, or deep, I would find at least one receiver open underneath with a reasonable throwing lane and a chance for YAC on at least 6 or 7 of them, and that throwing to those guys would have resulted in some sustained drives.

 

Dorsey is one of the least-informative, snooziest pressers I've listened to, but again, I think it's very telling that he specifically mentioned "trust your reads, trust your progressions, trust your eyes and where that read takes you, then that's where you go", not over-relying on one person, the importance of multiple guys with multiple targets, and distributing the ball (several times).

 

He said the statutory McDermott "putting our players in better positions" kind of stuff, too, of course, but it didn't get cycled the way distributing the ball and multiple guys and not trusting too much in one guy did.

 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

Huh?  Sauce was right there.  Davis put out an arm to hold him off.  The minute Gabe goes up for the ball, he loses any leverage

 

Putting out his arm (pushing off) negated any chance of drawing a PI. From what i recall Sauce never got his head around. Now Sauce didn't really make much contact but had Gabe made a strong move for the ball by going up and not pushing off he possibly could have drawn a flag with the DB not playing the ball. As it played out it looked like Gabe had to track the ball as it went through/by Sauce's arm making it a tougher catch. At any rate, anything other than what played out would have been worth trying.

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1 hour ago, Beck Water said:

 

 

Huh?  Sauce was right there.  Davis put out an arm to hold him off.  The minute Gabe goes up for the ball, he loses any leverage

I would’ve liked to see him stop and go up for the ball also instead of push off. He could’ve created a lot more contact to try and get the call.

 

Reason I don’t complain about PI is because Gabe tried pushing off .

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Okay Goys and Birls

I was off reading on another thread about how we should cut Gabe Davis and Isaiah McKenzie when we bring in OBJ.

Then of course the current height of TBD fashion is to dunk on Isaiah McKenzie

And Gabe Davis seems to be lining up as the next TBD whipping boy.

 

I thought I'd put together some factoids, so here ya go: WR performance table for Bills as of Week 8.

If you click the thing it will enlarge.

 

If y'all might want to recommend benching, cutting, etc. thought that might be useful - or Naaaaaaaah??? 🐐

 

Keep in mind that Gabe Davis does legit get some high degree of difficulty throws where he's well covered or has a safety closing fast.

And of course, these guys can't throw themselves the ball. 

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.a4d8cfec3be6f8715f6463b6a08b0cee.png

Edited by Beck Water
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On 11/8/2022 at 10:37 AM, ßookie_tech said:

Once they recommit to the run game, things will begin to open up. 

 

On 11/8/2022 at 10:40 AM, whorlnut said:

I disagree. We haven’t had a run game in a few years. Things were “opened up” last year and the year before. The problem is the overall talent of the receiving corp outside of Diggs. Hence the reason for this thread. 

What is it with the love of the run game at this forum?! 

 

If we win the SB this year, it will be because we are flinging the ball all over the field.


If we don't, it will be because we lost to a team that did, probably KC.

 

 

 

 

 

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On 11/8/2022 at 7:40 AM, whorlnut said:

I disagree. We haven’t had a run game in a few years. Things were “opened up” last year and the year before. The problem is the overall talent of the receiving corp outside of Diggs. Hence the reason for this thread. 

At the three-quarter mark of last year we were running the ball well can we please stop with the revisionist history

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On 11/6/2022 at 4:25 PM, BadboyBills said:

We just need to execute like how we were before.

like before before? 

 

Having a very fast #2 WR in Smoke and having a guy that could get open fast in Beasley is WHY we are struggling. When do not have the right weapons, the weakness of your offensive line shows way more. Davis and most defiantly Shakir needs more time at the position. Our first 2 of our first 3 picks need to be G, G or Guard and a Tackle. 

 

The only way you make up for offensive line issues is the right weapons... We do not have the right weapons.

 

On top of it all, we have a struggling OC.

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8 hours ago, Nextmanup said:

 

What is it with the love of the run game at this forum?! 

 

If we win the SB this year, it will be because we are flinging the ball all over the field.


If we don't, it will be because we lost to a team that did, probably KC.

 

 

 

 

 

Started playing their best football last season when they started to feed Singletary more.  2nd half of Tampa game. 

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14 hours ago, Beck Water said:

Okay Goys and Birls

I was off reading on another thread about how we should cut Gabe Davis and Isaiah McKenzie when we bring in OBJ.

Then of course the current height of TBD fashion is to dunk on Isaiah McKenzie

And Gabe Davis seems to be lining up as the next TBD whipping boy.

 

I thought I'd put together some factoids, so here ya go: WR performance table for Bills as of Week 8.

If you click the thing it will enlarge.

 

If y'all might want to recommend benching, cutting, etc. thought that might be useful - or Naaaaaaaah??? 🐐

 

Keep in mind that Gabe Davis does legit get some high degree of difficulty throws where he's well covered or has a safety closing fast.

And of course, these guys can't throw themselves the ball. 

 

 

 

image.thumb.png.a4d8cfec3be6f8715f6463b6a08b0cee.png

The lack of throws to Knox is concerning he’s Josh’s guy in the middle of the field seems like he just isn’t getting open 

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On 11/8/2022 at 7:37 AM, ßookie_tech said:

Once they recommit to the run game, things will begin to open up. 

Shady was the last time the Bills staff ever committed to a run game. It's been awhile 2017. In 2018 we started phasing McCoy out to let Josh do his thing.

Edited by LABILLBACKER
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