Now is the time we need Cook to start playing well

[Billz4ever]

16 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

They all have proven track records, Cook does not.  He needs to make that catch when given the opportunity, and then he’ll get more chances.

That's not how it works.  Rookies are the ones who are learning and are expected to make mistakes.  Vets don't get a pass just because they're vets.

 

And considering Singletary is a vet of what has been a mediocre running game at best, I'm not sure why it is you think Singletary gets a pass.  He certainly has no history that makes him untouchable or should make him immune to scrutiny when he puts the ball on the ground, which leads to points for the other team.

[gobills404]

15 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

You trade the f up when you can get a stud in a SB run year - especially when your top RB will be a UFA

 

 

We could have drafted everyone we did plus Breece in RD 2 or late RD 1.  Would have cost a 2nd maybe in 2023.  And this year's 2nd.  

 

7 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said:

Absolutely. I would have easily made moves to secure Hall. Pretty sad when a 5th round pick Shakir is playing better than Cook. 

“Cook can’t hold onto the ball. We should’ve traded up for the guy who also has a fumble AND leads the league in drops instead.”

 

Jfc you literally can’t make this stuff up

 

https://scores.nbcsports.com/fb/leaders.asp?type=Receiving&range=NFL&rank=232
 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2022/receiving_advanced.htm

[ArdmoreRyno]

He'd be playing in-game more if he was showing the coaches something in practice. Sorta how it goes... 

[Bob in STL]

1 hour ago, Aurelius said:

More reason he can’t be yanked after one mistake.  He’s a rookie and is on a big stage now.  How can any new player get any confidence that way?  I frankly think this is in McDermott.  It took both Singletary and Moss years to get going under McDermott as well and I don’t like how Cook is getting yanked forever after a mistake.  I think it’s partially the tough early season schedule as well, but we are gonna need him down the stretch.  Pittsburgh might be the right game to get him started a bit. 

You don't know anything about how Cook prepares, how he practices, his grasp the offense, or if he can help pass protect.  

 

He needs to stop dropping the ball the first time he touches it.  He looks like a guy that is not prepared when he is out there. 

 

He has to earn the right to play.  

[CEN-CAL17]

The only way we are going to see improvement from Cook is by getting him more game reps…..

 

I said from day 1, I wasn’t expecting to see much of him until after 10 games. So far he’s not getting the reps needed, but at the same time he hasn’t taken advantage of the minimal reps he’s got.

 

It may not happen this year, but there’s a lot of football left. The jump to the NFL is big, and I’m sure the staff isn’t putting much on his plate for a reason…. Still thinking 10-12 games is needed.

[Brand J]

When DROY front runner Devin Lloyd dropped to the Bills pick, I wanted the Bills to take him, immediately trade Edmunds, and then pick up a corner in the 2nd with that pick (Andrew Booth? Elam?)

Yes, I realize it would’ve been sort of Madden-like, but knowing we likely wouldn’t be able to afford Edmunds past this year and picking up a rookie who could potentially be an upgrade anyway - on a cost controlled contract - was enticing. What does this have to do with Cook? I probably would’ve waited until the 3rd to see if he was there. And no, I’m not going to use hindsight to point to the other rookie RBs selected later who have came in and made a difference. 

Edited October 4, 2022 by JayBaller10

[OldTimer1960]

18 hours ago, pigpen65 said:

It's definitely time to stop wasting 3 GameDay roster spots to RB's. Two of them ain't doing ***** and the lead rusher is always the QB anyways. Dress more receivers and DB's. 

What wrs would you like to dress.  I think Buff State has a couple healthy ones.

 

Tavon Austin has already shown that he is adequate at best in the NFL.  He has speed, so there is that.  Count me not in Isaiah Hodgins - love his effort, but he doesn’t get separation and he isn’t strong enough to be a dangerous possession receiver.  I think he is a figment of late preseason games.

 

I don’t think Marquez Stevenson is an answer, either.

26 minutes ago, Bob in STL said:

You don't know anything about how Cook prepares, how he practices, his grasp the offense, or if he can help pass protect.  

 

He needs to stop dropping the ball the first time he touches it.  He looks like a guy that is not prepared when he is out there. 

 

He has to earn the right to play.  

We’ll, I agree that if he isn’t impressive in practice, then sitting is his role.  But, I also think the “rookie treatment “ for a mistake early is counterproductive unless backed up by failure in practices.

[HurlyBurly51]

1 hour ago, Billz4ever said:

That's not how it works.  Rookies are the ones who are learning and are expected to make mistakes.  Vets don't get a pass just because they're vets.

 

And considering Singletary is a vet of what has been a mediocre running game at best, I'm not sure why it is you think Singletary gets a pass.  He certainly has no history that makes him untouchable or should make him immune to scrutiny when he puts the ball on the ground, which leads to points for the other team.

Actually, it works how the coaches say it works.  Maybe, just maybe, Cook hasn't earned the confidence and trust of the coaches, whereas Singletary has.  You aren't at practice all week, so you don't know.

13 hours ago, John from Riverside said:

About as many as the other running backs are killing

Good, we're in agreement then.  About one.

9 hours ago, CoudyBills said:

As many as Zach Moss

Yes, about one and done.

Edited October 4, 2022 by HurlyBurly51
update

[Billz4ever]

8 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Actually, it works how the coaches say it works.  Maybe, just maybe, Cook hasn't earned the confidence and trust of the coaches, whereas Singletary has.  You aren't at practice all week, so you don't know.

Good, we're in agreement then.  About one.

Yes, about one and done.

You're not at practice either and since other players and the coaching staff have literally been singing this guy's praises since training camp, I really don't know what your point is here.

[HurlyBurly51]

Just now, Billz4ever said:

You're not at practice either and since other players and the coaching staff have literally been singing this guy's praises since training camp, I really don't know what your point is here.

I think the point is pretty self-evident.  Singing his praises, yet he gets one snap?  What's that saying about actions speaking louder than words?

[Billz4ever]

1 hour ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

He'd be playing in-game more if he was showing the coaches something in practice. Sorta how it goes... 

Are you at practice?  Did McD tell you this?  If not, that's pure speculation.

 

 

10 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

I think the point is pretty self-evident.  Singing his praises, yet he gets one snap?  What's that saying about actions speaking louder than words?

It's not self-evident at all.  You can speculate and claim correlation implies causation, but in the end, you're still left with nothing but speculation.

 

Unless you somehow happen to be on the ins with McD and he's personally told you the reason Cook doesn't get more reps is because he doesn't trust him, you're guessing.  Period.

[CEN-CAL17]

2 hours ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

He'd be playing in-game more if he was showing the coaches something in practice. Sorta how it goes... 

not really the case…. Most times you read everything is implemented in training camp and preseason…. Game week is in preparation of players that are accounted for being in the game…

 

That being said, Cook already knows the personnel he could be in the game with and the plays he may be a part of.

 

During the season there’s not a lot of opportunities “to prove yourself”, that comes with game reps and making those reps count.

[Meatloaf63]

3 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

He is a rookie from a major program, has been through camp and preseason, and been given touches, especially in garbage time.  He can be given time to develop, but not at the expense of the team.  No one rookie is bigger than the team.  Time to execute, make a play, and he gets more time.  If not, try again next week.  Maybe he can get some tips from his fellow draftee Shakir, who though he went 3 rounds lower doesn't seem to have a problem when given a chance.

How about at the expense of Moss running for -1 yards? Can we afford to give that up?

[HurlyBurly51]

9 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

How about at the expense of Moss running for -1 yards? Can we afford to give that up?

As I stated previously, Moss should not be given more drive killing opportunities, imho.  Cook, on the other hand, needs to earn his own reps, irrespective of others performance.  No need to conflate the two.

[Billz4ever]

12 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

As I stated previously, Moss should not be given more drive killing opportunities, imho.  Cook, on the other hand, needs to earn his own reps, irrespective of others performance.  No need to conflate the two.

He's not conflating anything.  We have running back by committee.  Discussing the contributions, or lack thereof of Moss, is a perfectly legitimate observation when the overarching theme here is playing time and the lack of playing time that our Rookie is getting.

 

If the goal here was to ensure the Bills are never able to develop a rookie RB, your thought process will definitely make sure that goal is achieved.

Edited October 4, 2022 by Billz4ever

[BigDingus]

21 hours ago, Orlando Tim said:

Our WR core is shredded and Cook needs to stop making a few plays so that we can use him as our slot guy and move Shakir to the outside. Cook has been overwhelming so far but I truly have high expectations for him. 

 

I think you meant he needs to "start making a few plays" & "Cook has been underwhelming so far."

 

It would be nice if he could be spread out a bit more, but he's had a few timely drops which probably lower the staff's confidence in him.

[HurlyBurly51]

6 minutes ago, Billz4ever said:

He's not conflating anything. 

Definition of conflate:

1: to bring together : BLEND

2: to combine (things) into a composite whole

 

Yep, that's what happened.  

[Billz4ever]

34 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Definition of conflate:

1: to bring together : BLEND

2: to combine (things) into a composite whole

 

Yep, that's what happened.  

What exactly are we combining or "conflating" here?  We're talking about our running game and our running backs are already part of the conversation because they are quite literally what makes up our running game.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Billz4ever

[HurlyBurly51]

1 hour ago, Billz4ever said:

What exactly are we combining or "conflating" here?  We're talking about our running game and our running backs are already part of the conversation because they are quite literally what makes up our running game.

Well they are two different players who bring different things to the table, so there's that.  And we're literally in a thread to discuss Cook.  And actually, we were specifically discussing Cooks development, not the overall running game.  So the conflation was bringing up Moss and -1 yards when the content being replied to was specifically in regards only to Cook.  So combining Cooks development and the veteran Moss are two separate things you see, might be a little nuanced for you.

 

Anyway, it's cute you following me around and all but this point you think you're making has deteriorated to the point of being silly.  So, Welcome to Ignore, have fun arguing with yourself🤣  Buh bye now 

[EmotionallyUnstable]

22 hours ago, Einstein said:

 

Until Singletary stops missing cutback lines the size of Texas, I think it’s fair for the blame to be shared between the O-Line and Running Backs equally.

 

 

 

 

You need the coach cut of the EZ view to see what was really happening here. I’m not abdicating him or responsibility but this view can be misleading 

[Meatloaf63]

2 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Well they are two different players who bring different things to the table, so there's that.  And we're literally in a thread to discuss Cook.  And actually, we were specifically discussing Cooks development, not the overall running game.  So the conflation was bringing up Moss and -1 yards when the content being replied to was specifically in regards only to Cook.  So combining Cooks development and the veteran Moss are two separate things you see, might be a little nuanced for you.

 

Anyway, it's cute you following me around and all but this point you think you're making has deteriorated to the point of being silly.  So, Welcome to Ignore, have fun arguing with yourself🤣  Buh bye now 

One play should not be the whole story, if it was Singletary and Moss would have been benched also, and we would have been down to just a full back. This is not a good way to develop Cook, especially with all the other assets that have been injured. It’s a pattern with McDermott, he’s the coach so I imagine it will always be that way with him, to at times the detriment of the team. A properly developed Cook should be an asset to this team which desperately needs to improve that portion of its game. No, you don’t understand that. Don’t care, don’t need to beat a dead horse. Have a wonderful night👍

[HurlyBurly51]

3 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

One play should not be the whole story, if it was Singletary and Moss would have been benched also, and we would have been down to just a full back. This is not a good way to develop Cook, especially with all the other assets that have been injured. It’s a pattern with McDermott, he’s the coach so I imagine it will always be that way with him, to at times the detriment of the team. A properly developed Cook should be an asset to this team which desperately needs to improve that portion of its game. No, you don’t understand that. Don’t care, don’t need to beat a dead horse. Have a wonderful night👍

It hasn't been just one play.  I do understand, do care, and hope that he does develop into the asset we all anticipated.  We clearly need that aspect to this offense.  We can only speculate that the coaches see something we don't all week long in practices, meetings, off field, etc.  that warrant their approach.  What we do know is he has been underwhelming thus far in limited opportunities.  I have a gut feeling they are waiting for him to make a play when given his chance and then they will reward that.  idk  guess we'll just agree to disagree.  Have yourself a blessed evening.

[ArdmoreRyno]

16 hours ago, Billz4ever said:

Are you at practice?  Did McD tell you this?  If not, that's pure speculation.

 

 

It's not self-evident at all.  You can speculate and claim correlation implies causation, but in the end, you're still left with nothing but speculation.

 

Unless you somehow happen to be on the ins with McD and he's personally told you the reason Cook doesn't get more reps is because he doesn't trust him, you're guessing.  Period.

 

Yes, I'm at practice daily and coach calls me at night to talk about personnel. 

 

Dude, as a former coach and college player... I sorta know. If a kid shows something in practice, a lot of the time they get a shot during the game. If they don't, they don't get that chance. 

[Billz4ever]

11 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

Well they are two different players who bring different things to the table, so there's that.  And we're literally in a thread to discuss Cook.  And actually, we were specifically discussing Cooks development, not the overall running game.  So the conflation was bringing up Moss and -1 yards when the content being replied to was specifically in regards only to Cook.  So combining Cooks development and the veteran Moss are two separate things you see, might be a little nuanced for you.

 

Anyway, it's cute you following me around and all but this point you think you're making has deteriorated to the point of being silly.  So, Welcome to Ignore, have fun arguing with yourself🤣  Buh bye now 

If motor should unfortunately get bit by the injury bug like so many have, it's going to be hilarious watching you be forced to endure our Rookie actually getting reps.

5 minutes ago, ArdmoreRyno said:

 

Yes, I'm at practice daily and coach calls me at night to talk about personnel. 

 

Dude, as a former coach and college player... I sorta know. If a kid shows something in practice, a lot of the time they get a shot during the game. If they don't, they don't get that chance. 

You act like you're the only one that has any football background.  Having the same background, I can tell you, and you should already know, that is not always true.  And practices in the NFL during the season usually have little to nothing to do with the depth chart. It's usually to polish execution of plays.  

[T master]

On 10/3/2022 at 9:12 PM, Orlando Tim said:

Our WR core is shredded and Cook needs to stop making a few plays so that we can use him as our slot guy and move Shakir to the outside. Cook has been overwhelming so far but I truly have high expectations for him. 

 

We needed him to start playing well week one & he hasn't shown a thing given the over hyped hype that every one & the "Experts" were saying he was he IMHO he better start producing or i would put him on the practice squad & get another RB to come in because between him & Moss there ain't no body in the league afraid of our running game !! 

[Meatloaf63]

15 hours ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

It hasn't been just one play.  I do understand, do care, and hope that he does develop into the asset we all anticipated.  We clearly need that aspect to this offense.  We can only speculate that the coaches see something we don't all week long in practices, meetings, off field, etc.  that warrant their approach.  What we do know is he has been underwhelming thus far in limited opportunities.  I have a gut feeling they are waiting for him to make a play when given his chance and then they will reward that.  idk  guess we'll just agree to disagree.  Have yourself a blessed evening.

We are one injury away from only having him and Moss and I guess Johnson . I’d like him a little better prepared. We know what Moss gives us and I for one am not impressed. In reality, I think the Oline bears a large responsibility for a running woes. Does our Oline coach and coordinator bare some responsibility for not coming up with a proper working scheme? With having to respect Allen’s running and passing ability, it shouldn’t be this difficult to have an adequate running game. So where does the problem lie? 

[Billz4ever]

5 hours ago, T master said:

 

We needed him to start playing well week one & he hasn't shown a thing given the over hyped hype that every one & the "Experts" were saying he was he IMHO he better start producing or i would put him on the practice squad & get another RB to come in because between him & Moss there ain't no body in the league afraid of our running game !! 

First off, he's not the starter, so if nobody in the league is afraid of our running game, take it up with Singletary, the O-line, and McD.

 

Second, he's had a grand total of 13 carries this season, 11 of which came against Tennessee in garbage time after the game was already decided.

 

So, you are literally basing your opinion of him on two, count them, TWO carries.  Get a grip.

9 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

We are one injury away from only having him and Moss and I guess Johnson . I’d like him a little better prepared. We know what Moss gives us and I for one am not impressed. In reality, I think the Oline bears a large responsibility for a running woes. Does our Oline coach and coordinator bare some responsibility for not coming up with a proper working scheme? With having to respect Allen’s running and passing ability, it shouldn’t be this difficult to have an adequate running game. So where does the problem lie? 

Do people even realize that he's only had 13 carries all season and of those, 11 came in the Tennessee game basically in garbage time?

 

So essentially TWO carries is what these people are basing their opinion on.  To me, it sounds like a bunch of people piling on what first started as someone that had no clue what they were talking about said.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Billz4ever

[HurlyBurly51]

1 hour ago, Meatloaf63 said:

We are one injury away from only having him and Moss and I guess Johnson . I’d like him a little better prepared. We know what Moss gives us and I for one am not impressed. In reality, I think the Oline bears a large responsibility for a running woes. Does our Oline coach and coordinator bare some responsibility for not coming up with a proper working scheme? With having to respect Allen’s running and passing ability, it shouldn’t be this difficult to have an adequate running game. So where does the problem lie? 

I don't think they drafted him with the intention of being their workhorse.  Dude needs to start catching simple swing passes in space, and he'll be fine.

[Meatloaf63]

41 minutes ago, HurlyBurly51 said:

I don't think they drafted him with the intention of being their workhorse.  Dude needs to start catching simple swing passes in space, and he'll be fine.

Don’t think he has the size to be an every down back either. And you are right he needs to stop dropping passes, but Sunday is not the day to be the judge of that, and it was ridiculous to only give him one opportunity under those conditions. You really want to destroy his confidence, keep doing stupid things like that. It’s oblivious his confidence is shot, do you think benching after one opportunity is the answer? They made a sizable investment draft wise, it’s time to bring him along correctly and this is not the correct way to instill confidence. If he’s the player they thought he was when drafted, this has been completely mismanaged.

[HurlyBurly51]

4 minutes ago, Meatloaf63 said:

Don’t think he has the size to be an every down back either. And you are right he needs to stop dropping passes, but Sunday is not the day to be the judge of that, and it was ridiculous to only give him one opportunity under those conditions. You really want to destroy his confidence, keep doing stupid things like that. It’s oblivious his confidence is shot, do you think benching after one opportunity is the answer? They made a sizable investment draft wise, it’s time to bring him along correctly and this is not the correct way to instill confidence. If he’s the player they thought he was when drafted, this has been completely mismanaged.

Pitt seems like a good game to feed him more.

[Thurman#1]

On 10/5/2022 at 5:47 AM, CEN-CAL17 said:

The only way we are going to see improvement from Cook is by getting him more game reps…..

 

I said from day 1, I wasn’t expecting to see much of him until after 10 games. So far he’s not getting the reps needed, but at the same time he hasn’t taken advantage of the minimal reps he’s got.

 

It may not happen this year, but there’s a lot of football left. The jump to the NFL is big, and I’m sure the staff isn’t putting much on his plate for a reason…. Still thinking 10-12 games is needed.

 

 

Plenty of guys improve without getting any or many game reps. That's what practice is for.

 

I'm with you that 10 games seems like a good guess at when we start to see some results. 

 

 

[LeGOATski]

On 10/4/2022 at 8:03 PM, EmotionallyUnstable said:

You need the coach cut of the EZ view to see what was really happening here. I’m not abdicating him or responsibility but this view can be misleading 

Not to mention watch it in motion. There's no freeze frame in real life.

[Thurman#1]

On 10/4/2022 at 9:05 PM, Meatloaf63 said:

He needs to become a weapon and productive player as other options are gone from injury. What’s Moss’s track record besides averaging 1yard on 1st down carries?  Holding back this rookie is not in the best interest of the team. Benching a player on a rainy day where even your best receiver had drops is poor planning from the coaching staff.

 

 

It's not poor planning. It's just something you disagree with. He might have dropped more than the other people did. 

 

Fact is, this is how McDermott and the FO develop rookies.

 

You look at Singletary and you see that in his first nine weeks he had 49 runs and 22 targets. One game with more than 8 runs. 

 

Moss in his first nine games had 52 runs and 10 targets. Didn't really see much of him till Week 13.

 

Cook really doesn't need to be productive this early. The Bills are doing fine with him doing what he's doing now. There's no particular hurry.

[Meatloaf63]

1 minute ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

It's not poor planning. It's just something you disagree with. He might have dropped more than the other people did. 

 

Fact is, this is how McDermott and the FO develop rookies.

 

You look at Singletary and you see that in his first nine weeks he had 49 runs and 22 targets. One game with more than 8 runs. 

 

Moss in his first nine games had 52 runs and 10 targets. Didn't really see much of him till Week 13.

 

Cook really doesn't need to be productive this early. The Bills are doing fine with him doing what he's doing now. There's no particular hurry.

I disagree only because if the way this season has played out. We are an ankle injury away from having Moss as our starting running back. And that would be disastrous. Not having Cook prepared is poor planning.

[eball]

So far this season Cook is my biggest disappointment.  I had high expectations and he looks like he’s just not confident out there.  I hope the rookie jitters disappear *immediately* so he can start contributing in a way that could take this offense to an even higher level.

 

If Cook is used for some of the RB screens Josh threw to Singletary last week, he has a chance to take it to the house.

 

[JerseyBills]

I'm still high on Motor and loved that he got 88% of the snaps last week. 

I expect his snap count to stay 80%+. I think he's one of the most underrated players on this board.

 

I agree though,  would be nice for Cook to emerge. Moss is basically useless.

[eball]

17 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Surprised it’s not the offensive line… you were preaching to the choir how “beach chairs” was going to make the line a good group all summer…. It’s been far from it. 

 

We're only four games in, my friend, and we're 3-1.  I think the investment in the D line has paid off, don't you?

 

The left side of the OL has been fine.  They've also dealt with injuries.  It's a work in progress and I still have faith in Beach Chairs.

 

[26TrapDraw]

I Think James Cook’s value in this offense is the screen game. If he gets a couple of blocks he can be deadly in space. We are starting to really do well with the screen.

[LABILLBACKER]

No one denies our OL struggles with run blocking. And as others have accurately mentioned Cook seems tentative and lacking in confidence. Devin needs to continue getting 75% of the touches and the dumpoffs/screens need to continue. Maybe Kromer can overhaul the OL next off season?  We're just going to accept that we won't have a traditional run game.  Moss is probably gone and we'll be drafting another RB in April. 

[blacklabel]

I'm sure they'll be looking for more ways to get him involved. But they also bring their rookies along very slowly unless they're forced to play them more due to injuries.