Joel Osteen

[Son of a K-Gun]

18 hours ago, BUFFALOBART said:

A sweeping statement, is correct, regarding these bottom feeders.

They pocket the dough, and keep the suckers coming. If there are natural disasters, or situations where their 'Teleflock', might need some sort of assistance, they are nowhere to be found..

 

I dunno Bart, seems like Pat Robertson tries to assist his Teleflock in times of natural disaster...😉

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

I’m a cradle catholic as well

What's a "cradle Catholic?"

 

[T&C]

22 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Osteen locked the doors to his "church" during Harvey when many people were in need.  The gospel of prosperity is a con.

 

*His church is where the Houston Rockets used to play before the Toyota Center was built.  Its an arena.

Good ol' Joel's Vineyard.

[WhoTom]

25 minutes ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

What's a "cradle Catholic?"

 

 

I assume it means indoctrinated since birth. By that definition, I'm also a cradle Catholic. But I left the church a long time ago and have no plans to return, so I'm not a cradle-to-grave Catholic.

 

 

 

[PromoTheRobot]

On 9/20/2022 at 1:49 AM, Nextmanup said:

Show your theologian friend this video.  It pretty much says it all on this topic...

 

 

 

 

What did Jesus say about wealth? 

 

"How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven! Indeed, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

And yet look at Joel Osteen and his ilk.

 

That should tell you all you need to know.

[Buffalo716]

3 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

What's a "cradle Catholic?"

 

Someone who was raised Catholic since birth

[Augie]

2 hours ago, WhoTom said:

 

I assume it means indoctrinated since birth. By that definition, I'm also a cradle Catholic. But I left the church a long time ago and have no plans to return, so I'm not a cradle-to-grave Catholic.

 

 

 

 

I think I fit that description. Born and raised Catholic, briefly an altar boy, Christian Bothers for high school, Jesuits for college. Raised the kids going to church every Sunday. The wife still goes to church, but not every Sunday. I went to 10:30 am for a while when we moved to Atlanta, but when she changed to 7:15am I was OUT! It was mostly just a chance to be with my wife for a morning. 

 

Many of our friends in Florida were made by way of Catholic schools for the boys or church. I was never into the “church part”, but we had great priests who became close friends. We even rented a house from one for a year! I put up with Mass because they made a point of building a community. We would meet monthly on a Friday night at the beach for a cookout and sunset. Dinners on a regular basis. We went on cruises and to Europe with these people. We were friends, and a couple of great priests made this possible. We were always there for each other when things got tough, and they sure did get tough. THAT is more important than anything that happens on Sunday morning. 

 

I can’t get past the coverup of all the abuse. It was widespread and systematic. I can’t blame our friends for this, and in fact I feel bad for the good people. They are tarnished by this by association, and that’s not fair either. 

 

The major religions mostly tout all the same stuff, then put their own twist on it. They are all right, and they are all wrong, IMO. 

 

As for televangelists, I think they should be forced to study St Francis of Assisi. Doing good is helping others. THAT is how I believe we will be judged when that time comes. Gaining followers should be about building community and helping those in need. Not buying that $17.5 million dollar house I toured that was purchased by a televangelist pleading for money from little old ladies who are just trying to make/buy their way into heaven. 

 

Sorry, that was long, but it’s a complicated and sensitive topic. 

 

 

[DrW]

Most late-night televangelists have two things in common:

1. They are avid customers of "just for men" or related hair-dyeing products.

2. They like to be addressed as "Dr."; in most cases their doctorate is in divinity, which is more of an honorary title.

 

Most of them promise you rewards in health matters or in material form if you donate money to their church. Even if you believe the premise that God will look favorably on those supporting his cause financially, a question these televangelists should be asked is if the believer would gain the same benefits by donating the money to their local church or charity.  

Edited September 21, 2022 by DrW

[ExiledInIllinois]

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Someone who was raised Catholic since birth

I guess I am the same.  I suppose most are.  The long mass during lent when they recognize the catechumens always drove me wild! Darn converts extending a perfect fine mass! 😆 

[PromoTheRobot]

12 hours ago, ExiledInIllinois said:

I guess I am the same.  I suppose most are.  The long mass during lent when they recognize the catechumens always drove me wild! Darn converts extending a perfect fine mass! 😆 

 

I had the trifecta: Catholic grammar school (St. Stan's), choir boy and altar boy.

[Buffalo716]

21 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I think I fit that description. Born and raised Catholic, briefly an altar boy, Christian Bothers for high school, Jesuits for college. Raised the kids going to church every Sunday. The wife still goes to church, but not every Sunday. I went to 10:30 am for a while when we moved to Atlanta, but when she changed to 7:15am I was OUT! It was mostly just a chance to be with my wife for a morning. 

 

Many of our friends in Florida were made by way of Catholic schools for the boys or church. I was never into the “church part”, but we had great priests who became close friends. We even rented a house from one for a year! I put up with Mass because they made a point of building a community. We would meet monthly on a Friday night at the beach for a cookout and sunset. Dinners on a regular basis. We went on cruises and to Europe with these people. We were friends, and a couple of great priests made this possible. We were always there for each other when things got tough, and they sure did get tough. THAT is more important than anything that happens on Sunday morning. 

 

I can’t get past the coverup of all the abuse. It was widespread and systematic. I can’t blame our friends for this, and in fact I feel bad for the good people. They are tarnished by this by association, and that’s not fair either. 

 

The major religions mostly tout all the same stuff, then put their own twist on it. They are all right, and they are all wrong, IMO. 

 

As for televangelists, I think they should be forced to study St Francis of Assisi. Doing good is helping others. THAT is how I believe we will be judged when that time comes. Gaining followers should be about building community and helping those in need. Not buying that $17.5 million dollar house I toured that was purchased by a televangelist pleading for money from little old ladies who are just trying to make/buy their way into heaven. 

 

Sorry, that was long, but it’s a complicated and sensitive topic. 

 

 

The Catholic faith isnt the only one that hides child abuse

 

There is rampant child abuse in the Muslim culture and in Judaism that is systematically hidden

Edited September 22, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Joe Ferguson forever]

Born Catholic was my meaning of the term.  Parochial school and altar boy for me.  Still active in the church.  Certainly don't agree with some doctrine/tradition but I'm not going to throw out the baby with the bathwater.  I make my opinion known (shocker, I know)  I think there should be female priests and marriage allowed among clergy.  I don't like the meddling in politics (esp the US church).  The abuse issue is horrifying but I think would be greatly lessened by the clergy ideas above.  I like the idea of the church asa "field hospital" for those in spiritual or material need. I have never personally seen anything remotely constituting abuse.  It's a huge church and I love the universal aspect.  Am a Godfather to a Portugeuse nephew and so happy to be able to pray in English just by following the cadence of the mass there and in other countries.  I actually like the idea of rank and order in the church but again would like to see some things changed.   It's better imo than "Church of Joe" like Olsteen's where leaders often have private agendas and no one to answer to on earth.  Finally, I respect and admire the priests I know/have known and am fortunate to call a few friends.  I fondly remember the nuns from school and try, often unsuccessfully, to imitate their humility and kindness.

Edited September 22, 2022 by redtail hawk

[Chef Jim]

On 9/20/2022 at 5:24 PM, The Dean said:

I'm fine with most anyone's PERSONAL religious beliefs.  However when they start to talk about it (evangelize), it turns me off completely.

 

OTOH, I have little issue with people spreading the basic tenets of most every major religion:

 

Peace. Love. Acceptance. Charity.  Stuff like that. It's in the details of organized religion where things go off the rails, IMO.  

 

And shouldn't this thread be moved? Or closed?

 

Moved or closed why?  

[Chef Jim]

On 9/21/2022 at 12:33 PM, Jauronimo said:

Osteen locked the doors to his "church" during Harvey when many people were in need.  The gospel of prosperity is a con.

 

*His church is where the Houston Rockets used to play before the Toyota Center was built.  Its an arena.

 

I'm not sure this is true.  At least after doing some googling it looks like he didn't lock his church. 

[Joe Ferguson forever]

23 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I'm not sure this is true.  At least after doing some googling it looks like he didn't lock his church. 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/30/houston-megachurch-shut-out-flood-victims-twitter-storm

[T&C]

32 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Moved or closed why?  

Looks like a hall monitor job has opened up here. 

[The Dean]

 

 

 

 

[Just Jack]

2 hours ago, redtail hawk said:

 I think there should be female priests and marriage allowed among clergy. 

 

During our pre-marriage counseling session with our church's deacon, he asked what we think would help improve the church (or something like that).  What you said was pretty much my answer, that I felt if priests could be married, you'd see more men interested in becoming a priest.  I know I would consider it.  

[Joe Ferguson forever]

7 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

During our pre-marriage counseling session with our church's deacon, he asked what we think would help improve the church (or something like that).  What you said was pretty much my answer, that I felt if priests could be married, you'd see more men interested in becoming a priest.  I know I would consider it.  

Deacon Jack kinda sounds like Deacon Jones...considered it myself but obedience is not my strong suit.

[Buffalo716]

4 hours ago, Just Jack said:

 

During our pre-marriage counseling session with our church's deacon, he asked what we think would help improve the church (or something like that).  What you said was pretty much my answer, that I felt if priests could be married, you'd see more men interested in becoming a priest.  I know I would consider it.  

Of course it would be more appealing

 

But as the apostle Paul says Just as being married is a blessing… He also clearly distinguishes that staying single for the Lord is a blessing and gift all its own

 

Literally if you can receive it, do

 

Devoting your life to the Lord by choice is a special blessing not for all… It’s a calling… Which means you can’t devote your time to a wife and the Lord equally 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jauronimo]

16 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I'm not sure this is true.  At least after doing some googling it looks like he didn't lock his church. 

After significant public outrage, he graciously took in some of his flock. Out of the kindness of his heart. 

[PastaJoe]

9 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course it would be more appealing

 

But as the apostle Paul says Just as being married is a blessing… He also clearly distinguishes that staying single for the Lord is a blessing and gift all its own

 

Literally if you can receive it, do

 

Devoting your life to the Lord by choice is a special blessing not for all… It’s a calling… Which means you can’t devote your time to a wife and the Lord equally 

 

 

 

 

 

All the non-Catholic married clergy are going to be shocked that they can’t do as good of a job as a single Catholic priest.

 

And a married non-Catholic clergy can become a married Catholic priest if the Pope approves it. 

[Son of a K-Gun]

18 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

After significant public outrage, he graciously took in some of his flock. Out of the kindness of his heart. 

 

I kinda remember this story from back when it was playing out...when news broke about them closing their doors Olsteen released a statement about how the arena was a bowl and was below grade, so it was unsafe as it was a flood risk, or something to that extent.  I didn't realize that he changed course after that and actually did open up.  If that's the case, what changed?  Did the building suddenly become safe??

[WhoTom]

1 hour ago, Son of a K-Gun said:

 

I kinda remember this story from back when it was playing out...when news broke about them closing their doors Olsteen released a statement about how the arena was a bowl and was below grade, so it was unsafe as it was a flood risk, or something to that extent.  I didn't realize that he changed course after that and actually did open up.  If that's the case, what changed?  Did the building suddenly become safe??

 

Yes, miraculously.

 

 

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, Son of a K-Gun said:

 

I kinda remember this story from back when it was playing out...when news broke about them closing their doors Olsteen released a statement about how the arena was a bowl and was below grade, so it was unsafe as it was a flood risk, or something to that extent.  I didn't realize that he changed course after that and actually did open up.  If that's the case, what changed?  Did the building suddenly become safe??

I think there was some flooding in the basement but nothing that would prevent people from taking shelter in the rest of the building.  He also said the roads to access the building were flooded or unsafe which others challenged with videos and photos.  Maybe he was in the right.  Common sentiment in Houston is that he could have helped but chose not to.

 

Full disclosure: I will not be giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone who runs a mega-church.  I am not particularly religious or spiritual, but whenever I drive past his 16,000 seat palace I cannot help but think that isn't what christianity is supposed to be.  That applies to all mega-churches.  Motivational speaking mixed with the gospel of prosperity rubs me the wrong way.  

[The Dean]

40 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

I think there was some flooding in the basement but nothing that would prevent people from taking shelter in the rest of the building.  He also said the roads to access the building were flooded or unsafe which others challenged with videos and photos.  Maybe he was in the right.  Common sentiment in Houston is that he could have helped but chose not to.

 

Full disclosure: I will not be giving the benefit of the doubt to anyone who runs a mega-church.  I am not particularly religious or spiritual, but whenever I drive past his 16,000 seat palace I cannot help but think that isn't what christianity is supposed to be.  That applies to all mega-churches.  Motivational speaking mixed with the gospel of prosperity rubs me the wrong way.  

 

 

I'm right there with ya, brother.

 

Can I get an Amen?

[Augie]

3 hours ago, PastaJoe said:

All the non-Catholic married clergy are going to be shocked that they can’t do as good of a job as a single Catholic priest.

 

And a married non-Catholic clergy can become a married Catholic priest if the Pope approves it. 

 

With the shortage of priests that currently exists, you’d think they’d be looking for new ways to bolster the roster. The last few guys they brought in were from Poland. Their English was less than good. My wife tried to calm the kids down at Mass one day and make them pay attention. The reply she got was “but I can’t understand a word he’s saying”, and might wife had to concede they had a point. 

 

Our kids had a married priest at one of their schools. His son was a classmate. Seemed odd, but it worked just fine, and we could understand him.

[Steve O]

On 9/19/2022 at 12:25 AM, Fleezoid said:

Back to Osteen. He preaches good messages, which is cool, but he's gotten filthy rich. Is it wrong? I don't know, but I don't like it. It happens all the time. 

 

Well, I'm not a tech guy so can't help you with the video, never heard of Osteen, so can't speak to his blinking. As to the part of getting rich from preaching, I don't even know if that's wrong. But Luke, Matthew, and John all have references in their books as Jesus saying (depending on what translation is used) "And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God."

[Buffalo716]

5 hours ago, PastaJoe said:

All the non-Catholic married clergy are going to be shocked that they can’t do as good of a job as a single Catholic priest.

 

And a married non-Catholic clergy can become a married Catholic priest if the Pope approves it. 

It’s just logistics… Don’t take it personal

 

One is absolutely going to get more time… You cannot serve the Lord 100% and your family equally

 

The job of a Catholic priest is to serve the Lord 24 seven 365… If you’re married and have a child and family…

 

It’s just technically impossible to serve the lord 24 seven 365… Because you have to worry about your family and their life

 

It doesn’t mean that one priest is better than the other… But a priest who is only a priest absolutely has more time to serve the Lord properly

 

no matter what JP2 did 

 

If you have a family they’re going to take a lot of your time and effort … An unmarried Catholic priest serves nobody but the Lord 

 

and JP was straightforward …

 

“the Holy See has specified that this exception to the rule of celibacy is granted in favor of these individual persons, and should not be understood as implying any change in the Church's conviction of the value of priestly celibacy, which will remain the rule for future candidates for the priesthood from this group."

There is no change in the churches conviction of the value of priestly celibacy , which will remain the rule for future candidates from this group 
 

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2022 by Buffalo716

[Simon]

1 hour ago, The Dean said:

 

 

I'm right there with ya, brother.

 

Can I get an Amen?

 

Yeah, for $25 

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

It’s just logistics… Don’t take it personal

 

One is absolutely going to get more time… You cannot serve the Lord 100% and your family equally

 

The job of a Catholic priest is to serve the Lord 24 seven 365… If you’re married and have a child and family…

 

It’s just technically impossible to serve the lord 24 seven 365… Because you have to worry about your family and their life

 

It doesn’t mean that one priest is better than the other… But a priest who is only a priest absolutely has more time to serve the Lord properly

 

no matter what JP2 did 

 

If you have a family they’re going to take a lot of your time and effort … An unmarried Catholic priest serves nobody but the Lord 

 

and JP was straightforward …

 

“the Holy See has specified that this exception to the rule of celibacy is granted in favor of these individual persons, and should not be understood as implying any change in the Church's conviction of the value of priestly celibacy, which will remain the rule for future candidates for the priesthood from this group."

There is no change in the churches conviction of the value of priestly celibacy , which will remain the rule for future candidates from this group 

 

Imagine a married priest who, with wife in the rectory, is confronted with an issue that pits her opinion against the views of the parish.  Sure it's a hypothetical, although very real possibility.  A man cannot serve two masters and believing men who could marry as priests would result in unforeseen and unintended consequences.  

 

The dearth of under retirement age priests in the Catholic Church cannot be solved by changing the rules about celibacy.  

[Logic]

Mr Osteen's conduct is very un-Christian. I'm guessing he's never read Matthew 21:12-13


"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the money changers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

 

 

[Chef Jim]

6 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

After significant public outrage, he graciously took in some of his flock. Out of the kindness of his heart. 

So you don’t believe the arena was flooded? 

[Jauronimo]

Just now, Chef Jim said:

So you don’t believe the arena was flooded? 

So you do believe the arena was totally flooded?

[Chef Jim]

4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

So you do believe the arena was totally flooded?

I have no clue. I asked you what you thought.  

Edited September 23, 2022 by Chef Jim

[Just Jack]

Maybe there was some hesitation to not open it after seeing what happened in New Orleans at the Super Dome during Katrina. 

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, Chef Jim said:

I have no clue. I asked you what you thought.  

It was so flooded that it he couldn't open his doors until significant criticism and public uproar.  Then it wasn't too flooded to open his doors.  That is what I know.  

[Just Jack]

Wanna be pissed?  A local priest compares having to live in Buffalo is worse than committing suicide. 

 

 

[The Dean]

5 hours ago, Just Jack said:

Wanna be pissed?  A local priest compares having to live in Buffalo is worse than committing suicide. 

 

 

 

 

Sermons are easy. Comedy is hard. I don't think I could listen to that guy for 5 minutes.

[PastaJoe]

11 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

It’s just logistics… Don’t take it personal

 

One is absolutely going to get more time… You cannot serve the Lord 100% and your family equally

 

The job of a Catholic priest is to serve the Lord 24 seven 365… If you’re married and have a child and family…

 

It’s just technically impossible to serve the lord 24 seven 365… Because you have to worry about your family and their life

 

It doesn’t mean that one priest is better than the other… But a priest who is only a priest absolutely has more time to serve the Lord properly

 

no matter what JP2 did 

 

If you have a family they’re going to take a lot of your time and effort … An unmarried Catholic priest serves nobody but the Lord 

 

and JP was straightforward …

 

“the Holy See has specified that this exception to the rule of celibacy is granted in favor of these individual persons, and should not be understood as implying any change in the Church's conviction of the value of priestly celibacy, which will remain the rule for future candidates for the priesthood from this group."

There is no change in the churches conviction of the value of priestly celibacy , which will remain the rule for future candidates from this group 
 

 

 

 

Perhaps if they allowed priests to marry they wouldn’t have to retain and move around priests that spent part of that 24 / 365 diddling kids. It would also save them millions in payouts.