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Video: Odd take from Bills caller (Jim Kelly > Allen) + Keyshawn "I don't believe Josh Allen is the reason the Bills are in this position..."


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5 minutes ago, T master said:

Hey Keyshon if you take Josh out of this line up right now & put in Barkley, Keenum, Fitz, or Tribisky in the line up where are the Bills at then ??

 

I'll wait for your response 🤔 ...

I'll respond for him.   

 

Hey, T Master, if you take Miller, Diggs, Edmunds, Elam, Milano, Davis, Brown, Saffold and a few others (all of whom have Beane's fingerprints on them), where are the Bills then?   Allen is great, but Beane and McDermott saw his greatness while the Browns, Giants, Jets, and Broncos (all of whom would trade their current QB situation to have a do-over in the 2018 draft, and Beane has added talent all around Allen on both sides of the ball.  

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13 hours ago, ganesh said:

Josh Allen needs a "Monkey Off the Back" moment like Steve Young had to go through in the early 90s.  Unless and until you win the super bowl, people will always be doubters. 

 

Mahommes has won a Super Bowl, gone to two and ended up a game short in two other AFC Championships.  

 

If you compare apples to apples,  Allen has fallen short during the same 4 year period

 

Allen probably had the "TWO" Best b2b playoff games in the league's history and yet that was not enough for him to win the Super Bowl. 

 

At the end that is how one is perceived - fair or not.  

 

If you take away the hype,  every year Mahomes, Brady and Rodgers have better statistics than Allen and probably have more wins than Allen.  They have also played in more championship games than Allen (1).

 

Allen is a GREAT QB and ONE of the best in the current NFL. He needs to become the BEST and win championships.  Until then these second guessing will continue.

 

McDermott needs to help Allen to get the crown to take that monkey-off-the-back.

 

 

 

 

I disagree.  A couple of points:

 

* Comparing Allen's first 4 years to Mahomes first 4 years is not an apple to apple comparison.  KC was a perennial playoff team when Mahomes was inserted into the line-up.  The Bills were a long term, perennial loser.  The collection of talent around Allen on offense in his first 2 years pales in comparison to what Mahomes had.

 

*  Allen established beyond a shadow of doubt this season that he is an elite level performing QB in the playoffs.  The failure to win a Super Bowl rests solely on the coaching and the late game defense's performance against KC.

 

*  The fact that Mahomes, Brady & Rogers have played in more championship games then Allen is due to their being on stronger teams for a longer period of time.  Get back to me in 5 years.

 

*  I don't care about those folks 2nd guessing Allen.  They're either idiots who know little about the game of football or they're trying to get peoples attention.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by CincyBillsFan
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57 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I'll respond for him.   

 

Hey, T Master, if you take Miller, Diggs, Edmunds, Elam, Milano, Davis, Brown, Saffold and a few others (all of whom have Beane's fingerprints on them), where are the Bills then?   Allen is great, but Beane and McDermott saw his greatness while the Browns, Giants, Jets, and Broncos (all of whom would trade their current QB situation to have a do-over in the 2018 draft, and Beane has added talent all around Allen on both sides of the ball.  

 

I didn't say that the other parts of the team that you talk about are not vital to the teams success but Josh is a huge part of that & he leads by example & i feel brings every one because of his example to a higher or next level .

 

Ultimately football is a team game it can not be won by 1 person but if you look at most of the teams that have had good to great success there are those QB's that with out them would not have been nearly as successful .

 

Manning, Kelly, Elway, Brady, Mahomes, Montana, Bradshaw, you take any of these guys out of the line up yes the team would still be very good but by taking them away they would be lacking in some way from being what they are as a hole with them that's all i am trying to say .

 

And with our Bills today if Josh is taken out of that Team equation they would lessor for it .

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Curious what his take will be on Watson with and without Nuke Hopkins (minus his inflated garbage yards 2020 season) and now his #1 being future Hall Of Famer Amari Cooper.

 

And, how Justin Herbert walked into the best situation imaginable for a rookie - outside of Mahomes.   

 

Herbert has zero playoff appearances.  

 

These guys can f off with their "please tune in to us" takes.  

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1 hour ago, T master said:

 

I didn't say that the other parts of the team that you talk about are not vital to the teams success but Josh is a huge part of that & he leads by example & i feel brings every one because of his example to a higher or next level .

 

Ultimately football is a team game it can not be won by 1 person but if you look at most of the teams that have had good to great success there are those QB's that with out them would not have been nearly as successful .

 

Manning, Kelly, Elway, Brady, Mahomes, Montana, Bradshaw, you take any of these guys out of the line up yes the team would still be very good but by taking them away they would be lacking in some way from being what they are as a hole with them that's all i am trying to say .

 

And with our Bills today if Josh is taken out of that Team equation they would lessor for it .

I know, and I don't disagree.  But as I said in my original post, I believe that if McBeane hadn't gotten Allen, they somehow would have developed another solution.  

 

There used to be this debate on Bills message boards about whether a team should be built by first acquiring a franchise QB and then build around him, or by first building the team and then finding a QB to win with it.  Turns out, McBeane demonstrated that you just do it in whatever order it happens, and the key is pulling it all together somehow, anyhow.   If they hadn't gotten Allen, McBeane would have gotten someone else.  If they hadn't gotten Diggs, or Miller, they would have gotten someone else.  

 

Allen is unquestionably the star, but most of the franchises in the league wish they had a duo like Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott.  

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I disagree vehemently with the idea that this team is where they are because of McDermott because you take away Allen I really think they might even be a .500 team (or 8-9 with the current 17 game structure).

 

But I will say that the idea that JA17 is already better than Jim Kelly is laughable, at least at present. If anything for the simple fact he has not led this team to a SB yet and needs to play with a more steady hand and show real consistently over a full season.

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9 minutes ago, Shaw66 said:

I know, and I don't disagree.  But as I said in my original post, I believe that if McBeane hadn't gotten Allen, they somehow would have developed another solution.  

 

There used to be this debate on Bills message boards about whether a team should be built by first acquiring a franchise QB and then build around him, or by first building the team and then finding a QB to win with it.  Turns out, McBeane demonstrated that you just do it in whatever order it happens, and the key is pulling it all together somehow, anyhow.   If they hadn't gotten Allen, McBeane would have gotten someone else.  If they hadn't gotten Diggs, or Miller, they would have gotten someone else.  

 

Allen is unquestionably the star, but most of the franchises in the league wish they had a duo like Brandon Beane and Sean McDermott.  

I don't think there's an NFL franchise that would take Beane/McDermott over Josh Allen if given the choice.

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23 hours ago, Ethan in Portland said:

Ridiculous take. Coaching is primarily what prevented a SB win last season.  

Its a team sport. Coaching, special teams, and defense let all let Allen down. 

I understand and fully agree.  But that is how Josh is going to be measured.  If you find that one early success Josh Allen video -  Steve Young says exactly the same thing.

10 hours ago, CincyBillsFan said:

I disagree.  A couple of points:

 

* Comparing Allen's first 4 years to Mahomes first 4 years is not an apple to apple comparison.  KC was a perennial playoff team when Mahomes was inserted into the line-up.  The Bills were a long term, perennial loser.  The collection of talent around Allen on offense in his first 2 years pales in comparison to what Mahomes had.

 

*  Allen established beyond a shadow of doubt this season that he is an elite level performing QB in the playoffs.  The failure to win a Super Bowl rests solely on the coaching and the late game defense's performance against KC.

 

*  The fact that Mahomes, Brady & Rogers have played in more championship games then Allen is due to their being on stronger teams for a longer period of time.  Get back to me in 5 years.

 

*  I don't care about those folks 2nd guessing Allen.  They're either idiots who know little about the game of football or they're trying to get peoples attention.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not second guessing Allen.  I am saying what perspectives others may have.  You have to look at it from a general perspective and not a Bills fan. 

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On 7/31/2022 at 2:55 PM, transplantbillsfan said:

 

Well... that could be because Wright at least showed some kind of sensibility after the Chiefs playoff game when he said Josh Allen terrifies him. Now he talks about Allen as the 2nd or 3rd best QB in the NFL. Once the season starts I'm sure he'll go back to being a Troll though.

 

I think what Keyshaun said is as dumb as anything Wright ever said. Probably dumber because of his obstinate refusal to consider the last 2 years as evidence.

 

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And he's back at it again it appears.  Not even gonna post the video.  And yes I know, KJ does this to stoke the fire which is why I don't post the video but it's an interesting topic still.

 

The question - Real or not Real: QB's who are their teams biggest Achilles heel

 

The QBs: Mac Jones, Daniel Jones, Josh Allen

 

Mac: All said not real (which I disagree with but that's a different topic).

Daniel Jones: all said Real and then Kellerman backed off on it because the whole team is a big problem

Allen: Kellerman and Williams didn't hesitate and said not real.  KJ obviously said Real and then listed reasons why he's the most important part of the offense but in a negative way.  Then Kellerman and Williams had to explain what an Achilles heel is to KJ.

 

The outright trolling/dislike/hatred he has toward Allen is pretty embarrassing.  

 

 

Back to the Mac Jones thing though.  I really do think he is the Achilles heel of the team.  BB has him playing a specific way to get them out in front and then just milk the clock as much as possible.  I honestly think they had a good team last year but Jones isn't capable of being able to fight his way back into a game the way Josh does/has.

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5 minutes ago, The Wiz said:

And he's back at it again it appears.  Not even gonna post the video.  And yes I know, KJ does this to stoke the fire which is why I don't post the video but it's an interesting topic still.

 

The question - Real or not Real: QB's who are their teams biggest Achilles heel

 

The QBs: Mac Jones, Daniel Jones, Josh Allen

 

Mac: All said not real (which I disagree with but that's a different topic).

Daniel Jones: all said Real and then Kellerman backed off on it because the whole team is a big problem

Allen: Kellerman and Williams didn't hesitate and said not real.  KJ obviously said Real and then listed reasons why he's the most important part of the offense but in a negative way.  Then Kellerman and Williams had to explain what an Achilles heel is to KJ.

 

The outright trolling/dislike/hatred he has toward Allen is pretty embarrassing.  

 

 

Back to the Mac Jones thing though.  I really do think he is the Achilles heel of the team.  BB has him playing a specific way to get them out in front and then just milk the clock as much as possible.  I honestly think they had a good team last year but Jones isn't capable of being able to fight his way back into a game the way Josh does/has.

I don't know the idea that if the QB doesn't play well the team doesn't play well makes a lot of sense, not sure why nobody has thought of that before. 🙄

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1 minute ago, Warcodered said:

I don't know the idea that if the QB doesn't play well the team doesn't play well makes a lot of sense, not sure why nobody has thought of that before. 🙄

Which is why I got a kick out of Max and Jay telling him what an "Achilles Heel" was after he gave his reasons why.

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Even if he didn't know what an achilles heel was, his reasoning is stupid.  If any QB struggles, their team will do poorly.  Duh! 

 

What compounds it is giving Jones a pass for having not only having a rookie OC, but one who has never been an OC before, much less hasn't been more than an assistant OL coach since 2005, while saying it will be a hindrance for Josh. 

 

And who the heck thought it made sense to put Josh in there?  The guy is being talked about as an MVP candidate and one of the top QBs.  The other guys aren't even in the area code.

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Content/debate shows are scripted to be controversial or at least argumentative. The "opinions" offered are worthless outside of mindless, filler entertainment.

 

That being said, Allen does need to find more consistency. Bills fans are eating the hype and pretending his playoff performance was the norm last year. Half of his games were under 60% completion and 250 yards passing, including a game against the worst team in the league where he couldn't make a single play.

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8 minutes ago, Airseven said:

Content/debate shows are scripted to be controversial or at least argumentative. The "opinions" offered are worthless outside of mindless, filler entertainment.

 

That being said, Allen does need to find more consistency. Bills fans are eating the hype and pretending his playoff performance was the norm last year. Half of his games were under 60% completion and 250 yards passing, including a game against the worst team in the league where he couldn't make a single play.

 

Who cares about the sub-60% games?  They were all wins, save for the first game of the season and the first Cheaters wind game.  If he were a 1-dimensional QB, it would mean more. 

 

And he took it to another level in the playoffs.  Meaning against some of the best teams in the conference.  That doesn't usually happen.

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