Bills OTAs

[Warcodered]

56 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

It's like someone said earlier: if the Bills had focused more on offense over the off-season, he'd be talking about 13 seconds. 

 

After 2 years and that playoff game, it's time for Davis to get his shot at starting full-time.  They added Crowder to replace Beasley and drafted Cook and Shakir.  Worse come to worst, Julio Jones and Ty Hilton are still out there.

Bills win the Super Bowl and he's going to be very upset about the Bills picking 32nd.

[Billy Claude]

On 6/14/2022 at 8:26 PM, Logic said:

Other than...

re-signing Isaiah McKenzie (who plays a useful role in the offense year after year)
re-signing Ryan Bates (starter)
signing Jamison Crowder (presumed new starting slot receiver)
signing OJ Howard (presumed TE2)
signing Roger Saffold (presumed new starting left guard)
signing Tavon Austin

signing Duke Johnson

drafting James Cook (high capital on a pass catching back for Josh)

drafting Khalil Shakir (long term slot receiver and WR depth)

...You nailed it.

Totally sacrificed offensive investment.

 

 

When its listed like this, it is really not very much -- especially compared to the effort made to improve the defense.

 

McKenzie, Bates -- I know that they are expected to have a bigger role this season but it is hard to argue you've made your team better by resigning your own guys.

Crowder -- a wash or slight improvement over Beasley.

OJ Howard -- they say he looks pretty bad right now but hard to not be an improvement on TE2 considering the Bills TE2 situation last year.

Safford -- probably a wash compared with Daryl Williams

Austin -- 50/50 that he makes the 53.

Johnson -- a little extra depth a RB --  most likely will be T.J. Yeldon this year .

Shakir -- you are in trouble if you are relying on a 5th rounder to contribute in their rookie year.

Cook -- only real improvement that one should have confidence in.

 

Compare this to defense where you signed Von Miller, Settle,  Jones, Lawson, Phillips and a first round draft choice it is clear that Beane has been focused on defense this season.

  

 

[NewEra]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Wrong… Tre White was fully healthy in the Championship game in 2020 and was absolutely torched by Hill and co…. You think Davis has that game against the Chiefs if Diggs isn’t on the other side? 
 

No way were they “noticeably worse” when White went down… what are you basing this on?

He was also healthy when we played them in October and shut them down for the most part. 
 

 

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Why isn't running Allen that much sustainable? He is young, dynamic, his legs are a huge weapon, and his body seems more than able to sustain the tackles. His running just opens up the offense tremendously. Sure, injury is a concern but he can just as easily get injured trying to pass. I am all for Allen continuing to have designed runs and RPOs. The proof is in the results. When Allen ran the Bills won and the offense was excellent. 

It might be sustainable for a year, but the more he runs, the shorter his career will likely be. 

[ddaryl]

7 hours ago, newcam2012 said:

Why isn't running Allen that much sustainable? He is young, dynamic, his legs are a huge weapon, and his body seems more than able to sustain the tackles. His running just opens up the offense tremendously. Sure, injury is a concern but he can just as easily get injured trying to pass. I am all for Allen continuing to have designed runs and RPOs. The proof is in the results. When Allen ran the Bills won and the offense was excellent. 

 

 

You have a 250 million $$$ QB taking unnecessary hits. It is not sustainable.  Chances of a season ending injury continue to climb every time Allen gets hit. Yes he is big and strong, and can take on more then most QB's but we shouldn't be pressing that button when we do not have to.

If the season is on the line then let Allen run, but we need to limit his designed runs. Designed runs in the regular season is just an unnecessary risk.

[Warcodered]

 

[ddaryl]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

Guys name is newcam and he’s asking that question😅

 

Don't know what your trying to say here. He was wondering why Allen's design runs are not sustainable and I answered that.

Not sure what I'm missing here

I have no clue to the relevance of the persons name and how that fits either

Edited June 16, 2022 by ddaryl

[ColoradoBills]

Another thread hijacked about Bills WR depth.  Once again talk of shootouts with KC.

 

KC lost Tyreek Hill.  Their top 3 WRs are as follows:

Juju Smith-Schuster

Marques Valdez-Scantling

Mercole Hardman

 

They drafted Skyy Moore.

 

They got the following as depth:

Corey Coleman

Josh Gordon and a bunch of JAGs.

 

Any Buffalo Bills fans want to trade WR rooms straight up with them?

 

[Virgil]

Interesting take on Howard.  Curious to see if he makes the team if this is true

 

Edited June 16, 2022 by Virgil

[Doc]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

13 seconds was a complete coaching failure and mental let down with the defense put in position to fail…. are you really a doctor? 

 

And Tre White wouldn't have made a difference.  Do you have a brain?

[Son of a K-Gun]

14 minutes ago, Virgil said:

Interesting take on Howard.  Curious to see if he makes the team if this is true

 

 

Shades of Jacob Hollister?

[billsfan1959]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

And Tre White wouldn't have made a difference.  Do you have a brain?

 

 

The sum of the square roots of any two sides of an isosceles triangle is equal to Beane and McDermott suck....

[HappyDays]

32 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

The suggestion made was @HappyDays would’ve swapped having Diggs for Tre White in the divisional game…. Try to keep up Doc. 

 

No, I said that it is arguable. Because in my mind Stefon Diggs and Tre White are equally important to the success of the team. Last year we paid for WR depth instead of CB depth and it hurt us in the end. I don't blame Beane for that. It's impossible to have good depth everywhere. My point is that you can't use one specific spot with weak depth as criticism of the yeam building strategy. Most teams don't even have good starters at every position, let alone good depth. I would argue the Bills have good to great starters at every position, except for maybe RT which is a bit of a question mark. That's the mark of a really good team.

[Doc]

1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:

The suggestion made was @HappyDays would’ve swapped having Diggs for Tre White in the divisional game…. Try to keep up Doc. 

 

And you made mention of the 2020 playoffs yet earlier in the 2021 season, with Tre, they easily defeated the Chiefs.  

[YattaOkasan]

3 hours ago, Billy Claude said:

 

 

When its listed like this, it is really not very much -- especially compared to the effort made to improve the defense.

 

McKenzie, Bates -- I know that they are expected to have a bigger role this season but it is hard to argue you've made your team better by resigning your own guys.

Crowder -- a wash or slight improvement over Beasley.

OJ Howard -- they say he looks pretty bad right now but hard to not be an improvement on TE2 considering the Bills TE2 situation last year.

Safford -- probably a wash compared with Daryl Williams

Austin -- 50/50 that he makes the 53.

Johnson -- a little extra depth a RB --  most likely will be T.J. Yeldon this year .

Shakir -- you are in trouble if you are relying on a 5th rounder to contribute in their rookie year.

Cook -- only real improvement that one should have confidence in.

 

Compare this to defense where you signed Von Miller, Settle,  Jones, Lawson, Phillips and a first round draft choice it is clear that Beane has been focused on defense this season.

  

 

Why are we all forgetting about david quessenberry?  He started on a dominant run blocking OL in Tenn last year (no dropoff in YPC after Henry went down).  At worst he is good swing tackle depth.  Considering Brown hasnt taken any snaps this offseason Quessenberry maybe starting RT opening day.  Im hoping for Brown to come back for camp but he had an up and down year. 

 

I agree with Joe Marinos breakdown of how the personnel changed for the offense

QB > push

RB > better

WR > worse but not a concern besides outside WR depth

OL > much better

 

When I look at it this way I think we have invested pretty well considering we were 3rd in points scored last year.  We didnt need the impact positions on offense (QB, WR1, LT) like we did for defense (CB, Edge) so it looks like a lot more investment on defense.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

11 hours ago, Doc said:

 

The first NE game was because of the wind.  And the offense scored plenty in the games around the Jags and Colts games.  Speaking of the Colts game, that was going to be a loss no matter what given the way the defense was playing against the run.

 

 

The primary issues with the offense last season were terrible pass blocking and a lack of a receiver who could take a short pass and make a big play.

 

Not having the John Brown type,  who could hit a HR on a short pass because his deep speed opened up space for him,   was the literal difference in the Jax and NE games.    The little screen pass for a long TD run to Brown was a play they had used to change the tenor of games where they had faltered......like late in the Seattle game in 2020 or against Baltimore in 2019.

 

Teams did not respect the YAC ability of the Bills receivers in 2021..........and with good reason.........they were the worst in the league at YAC.

 

They have passively attempted to address that problem with flyers on Crowder and Tavon Austin.

 

Crowder used to be an excellent YAC guy.......he once hung an 80 yard TD on Tremaine Edmunds.   But he's been injured A LOT.......and his YAC was terrible last season.

 

 Same story with Austin........he was never a good receiver but he AT LEAST used to be able to get some YAC.    Last year he was garbage in that regard......an abysmal, washed-the-f*ck-up 2.5 yards per.   That's why the Jags said no thanks.   He's tiny and injury prone.......so if he's juiceless he's useless.

 

And before anyone mentions McKenzie........forget about it.   He is not a downfield threat.   Teams know they can squat on his game and he's not instinctive enough to excel against zone coverage.   His ypr numbers look like a RB's.

 

James Cook is also an attempt to have that guy.........but make no mistake.........Cook is not a substitute for an ACTUAL receiver in the passing game.    The best receiving RB's still produce less in the pass game than a good slot receiver.    

 

And in the process of passively attempting to improve their YAC/explosiveness in the short passing game they've also neglected to replace the depth they lost outside when Sanders contract expired.

 

Could it work out?   Sure.   I'm watching the Yankees having an epic season despite the bottom of their lineup predictably being disgustingly bad at the plate.   The team stepped up in other areas.   If the Bills play historically great on defense or IF Crowder bounces back and Diggs and Davis stay healthy it might not matter at all.    

 

But what started this branch of the discussion was the declaration of people like @Logic that the Bills made similar investments in improving their offensive personnel as they did their defensive personnel this offseason.    And that is not the truth at all.

Edited June 16, 2022 by BADOLBILZ

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

And you made mention of the 2020 playoffs yet earlier in the 2021 season, with Tre, they easily defeated the Chiefs.  

 

Context.

 

Early in the season teams like the Bills were playing off coverage with extra coverage players against the Chiefs,  daring them to take short throws and run the football.    

 

KC wasn't taking the small stuff and was instead turning the ball over and getting beaten.    What the Bills did seemed significant until you watched KC continue to refuse to take the small gains early in the season.   The Titans annihilated them.    They were bad on offense and terrible on defense when the Bills first played them.

 

Same defensive game plan didn't work in January though.   The Chiefs adjusted at midseason and were being much more patient and methodical and playing great football in the process.   Mahomes killed the Bills in that divisional game with his feet and by taking shorter throws.........which later in the game turned into big plays because the rope-a-dope Bills defensive approach left the Bills totally exhausted on that side of the ball.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

4 hours ago, Virgil said:

Interesting take on Howard.  Curious to see if he makes the team if this is true

 

 

 

Fortunately he wasn't their biggest investment in a new pass catcher this offseason.

 

Oh, wait............he was.

 

[Dr. Who]

42 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Context.

 

Early in the season teams like the Bills were playing off coverage with extra coverage players against the Chiefs,  daring them to take short throws and run the football.    

 

KC wasn't taking the small stuff and was instead turning the ball over and getting beaten.    What the Bills did seemed significant until you watched KC continue to refuse to take the small gains early in the season.   The Titans annihilated them.    They were bad on offense and terrible on defense when the Bills first played them.

 

Same defensive game plan didn't work in January though.   The Chiefs adjusted at midseason and were being much more patient and methodical and playing great football in the process.   Mahomes killed the Bills in that divisional game with his feet and by taking shorter throws.........which later in the game turned into big plays because the rope-a-dope Bills defensive approach left the Bills totally exhausted on that side of the ball.

 

I've been watching football for over fifty years, but I don't claim to be an expert. So maybe this is a stupid question/observation, but I don't understand why there apparently wasn't a spy assigned to Mahomes in the divisional game. He just killed us with his legs. Shut that down, you likely win the game, and yet we seemingly had no answer and made no adjustments. Same D that was able to more or less contain Lamar Jackson couldn't do it against Ratface.

[Billy Claude]

7 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Why are we all forgetting about david quessenberry?  He started on a dominant run blocking OL in Tenn last year (no dropoff in YPC after Henry went down).  At worst he is good swing tackle depth.  Considering Brown hasnt taken any snaps this offseason Quessenberry maybe starting RT opening day.  Im hoping for Brown to come back for camp but he had an up and down year. 

 

I agree with Joe Marinos breakdown of how the personnel changed for the offense

QB > push

RB > better

WR > worse but not a concern besides outside WR depth

OL > much better

 

When I look at it this way I think we have invested pretty well considering we were 3rd in points scored last year.  We didnt need the impact positions on offense (QB, WR1, LT) like we did for defense (CB, Edge) so it looks like a lot more investment on defense.

 

 

I am surprised about Marino's take on the o-line unless he was comparing it to the start of last season. Ford, Feliciano, Morse, Williams and covid Dawkins is a pretty low bar to clear.   If he was comparing it the oline at the end of last year, the only change to the lineup will be Saffold replacing Williams.  From what everybody says Saffold should improve the run blocking but not super impressive at pass blocking.  He is also 35 years old, and has to take plays off if he gets hit a certain way.

 

As for Quessenberry, I guess he will add flexibility but he will be a improvement as a backup compared to Feliciano?   

 

Perhaps Marino is assuming that Spencer Brown and Tommy Doyle making major improvements?  Certainly one would expect 2nd year players to get better but it is also risky to assume big jumps.  We are also hoping that Bates six games is the real Bates.   So I don't see where one can be that confident that the oline will be much better.  Perhaps Marino's opinion is based on Kroemer being hired?

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2022 by Billy Claude
mixed up Quessenberry and Saffold sack numbers

[Rico]

4 hours ago, YattaOkasan said:

Why are we all forgetting about david quessenberry?  He started on a dominant run blocking OL in Tenn last year (no dropoff in YPC after Henry went down).  At worst he is good swing tackle depth.  Considering Brown hasnt taken any snaps this offseason Quessenberry maybe starting RT opening day.  Im hoping for Brown to come back for camp but he had an up and down year. 

 

I agree with Joe Marinos breakdown of how the personnel changed for the offense

QB > push

RB > better

WR > worse but not a concern besides outside WR depth

OL > much better

 

When I look at it this way I think we have invested pretty well considering we were 3rd in points scored last year.  We didnt need the impact positions on offense (QB, WR1, LT) like we did for defense (CB, Edge) so it looks like a lot more investment on defense.

 

Why did the Titans let Quessenberry walk?

[BADOLBILZ]

19 minutes ago, Rico said:

Why did the Titans let Quessenberry walk?

 

Because he allowed 11 sacks........most in the league by a tackle?

[Rico]

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Because he allowed 11 sacks........most in the league by a tackle?

Makes sense... I see Ty Nsekhe is still a free agent. So is Marcus Price, but he's a little older.

Edited June 16, 2022 by Rico

[BADOLBILZ]

48 minutes ago, Rico said:

Makes sense... I see Ty Nsekhe is still a free agent. So is Marcus Price, but he's a little older.

 

 

I can live with the moves on the O-line........ it's the combination of modest investments across the board on offense..........and more the receivers than anything.    The entire league is saying receiving talent is maybe second only to QB talent..........and yet the Bills have been cutting corners their the last two offseasons.     Their overall WR talent appears significantly diminished from the group that they had on the field early in 2020.   For a team that says "WR is our fastball"........it doesn't seem like they have put enough emphasis on it.    I still think they are probably looking for 3rd boundary receiver.   

[HappyDays]

21 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

The entire league is saying receiving talent is maybe second only to QB talent..........and yet the Bills have been cutting corners their the last two offseasons.     Their overall WR talent appears significantly diminished from the group that they had on the field early in 2020.

 

Haven't you been saying WRs are now overvalued almost to the level of RBs and that we overpaid Diggs?

[Warcodered]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Haven't you been saying WRs are now overvalued almost to the level of RBs and that we overpaid Diggs?

If you could somehow get past @BADOLBILZ to argue with present @BADOLBILZ you could power this thread for years.

[BADOLBILZ]

17 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

Haven't you been saying WRs are now overvalued

 

Haven't you been saying Josh Allen can't win in the playoffs?

 

We can all play this game. 

 

 

16 minutes ago, Warcodered said:

If you could somehow get past @BADOLBILZ to argue with present @BADOLBILZ you could power this thread for years.

 

Don't you have some sheep to tend?

 

https://www.thecheyennepost.com/news/bestiality-legal-in-wyoming/article_099ffc5a-5b3f-11eb-91ff-b322b5e4df54.html

 

[Warcodered]

12 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Don't you have some sheep to tend?

 

https://www.thecheyennepost.com/news/bestiality-legal-in-wyoming/article_099ffc5a-5b3f-11eb-91ff-b322b5e4df54.html

So, you just have the knowledge of where there isn't a law against that just off the top of your head....

 

[HappyDays]

27 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Haven't you been saying Josh Allen can't win in the playoffs?

 

No, I haven't. But you said that other thing that I said. So your opinion on this topic is all over the place.

[YattaOkasan]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

How do you figure?

Saffold pro bowl guard and bates for a whole season. Year of growth from Spencer brown. That’s a personnel upgrade at 3 starting positions. Quessenberry is a better swing tackle than Doyle. Depth guard I guess is worse considering they had bates waiting in the wings. All this before I even mention that kromer >> Johnson.  Do you think the OL is not the best it’s ever been for josh?  

[YattaOkasan]

2 hours ago, Rico said:

Why did the Titans let Quessenberry walk?

 

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Because he allowed 11 sacks........most in the league by a tackle?

It’s true his pass protection is not

great. But he is a great run blocker. Maybe they thought they couldn’t afford him with their cap numbers. The titans drafted isiah Wilson in the first so they def don’t get the benefit of the doubt when it come to tackle evaluation. 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 minutes ago, HappyDays said:

 

No, I haven't. But you said that other thing that I said. So your opinion on this topic is all over the place.

 

 

Nah. 

 

Nobody has been more adamant about wanting the Bills to acquire more WR talent than I...........and it's not new........I've seen the value in stacking the position for a decade. 

 

Here's how this works............you make a ridiculous claim to derail a conversation you are looking increasingly idiotic in........then insist that it's true to try to sell it..........and then *maybe* pretend to do the work to prove you are right...........then all that you come up with is me saying I didn't think the Bills should extend Diggs just yet because he has 2 years left on his deal.     And you then try to claim victory for your overall take that I think WR's are of decreasing value in the NFL.

 

Douchebaggery is your crutch.

 

You will NEVER find me having said that receivers aren't increasingly critical to team performance in the NFL.   Maybe you arrived late, but I did not.

 

Are we advancing the OTA discussion yet?    

[Rico]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

I can live with the moves on the O-line........ it's the combination of modest investments across the board on offense..........and more the receivers than anything.    The entire league is saying receiving talent is maybe second only to QB talent..........and yet the Bills have been cutting corners their the last two offseasons.     Their overall WR talent appears significantly diminished from the group that they had on the field early in 2020.   For a team that says "WR is our fastball"........it doesn't seem like they have put enough emphasis on it.    I still think they are probably looking for 3rd boundary receiver.   

I definitely think they are adding an outside WR, I said as much in that prediction thread. Yeah, I would've rather seen a WR in the 1st instead of Matt Elam's nephew, even if it would've meant trading up a little, but everyone I liked was already long gone. Until proven otherwise, the Jets scrub is a downgrade to Beasley, I don't care what stats show since stats are for losers (just like the Jets)... but maybe he is good after all. GMs were pissed that Beane stole Shakir in the 5th round, yet no one was stopping them from drafting him at the end of Day 2/beginning of Day 3. Maybe Davis wasn't a one-game wonder who benefited from Honey Badger's absence. Maybe Lil Dirty can build on that epic game in Foxboro. Maybe the HMLP-lovers are finally right about Kumerow. Whole lotta maybes and if's, but Josh Allen is the great equalizer. so I'm not really worried at all.

 

[newcam2012]

13 hours ago, NewEra said:

He was also healthy when we played them in October and shut them down for the most part. 
 

 

It might be sustainable for a year, but the more he runs, the shorter his career will likely be. 

I get that. However, the Bills have an awesome chance to make a super bowl appearance and hoist the Lombardi Trophy. The best chance of doing so is utilizing his legs. That's pretty much a given and without much dispute. Of course don't take unnecessary hit but you let Allen play! You don't win super bowls by fearing injuries, playing scared or not assertive, and not using your best weapons. Allen as pure pocket passer makes the Bills offense less effective. Let Allen lose! 

[NewEra]

6 minutes ago, newcam2012 said:

I get that. However, the Bills have an awesome chance to make a super bowl appearance and hoist the Lombardi Trophy. The best chance of doing so is utilizing his legs. That's pretty much a given and without much dispute. Of course don't take unnecessary hit but you let Allen play! You don't win super bowls by fearing injuries, playing scared or not assertive, and not using your best weapons. Allen as pure pocket passer makes the Bills offense less effective. Let Allen lose! 

The best chance of doing so is utilizing his legs….in the playoffs.  If they were smart, they’d have 2 different offenses.  1:  Regular season offense, where they limit his runs to passing play scrambles and very important 3rd downs.  Playoff offense: 

[newcam2012]

13 hours ago, ddaryl said:

 

 

You have a 250 million $$$ QB taking unnecessary hits. It is not sustainable.  Chances of a season ending injury continue to climb every time Allen gets hit. Yes he is big and strong, and can take on more then most QB's but we shouldn't be pressing that button when we do not have to.

If the season is on the line then let Allen run, but we need to limit his designed runs. Designed runs in the regular season is just an unnecessary risk.

Designed runs were very effective. It's one of Allen's best assets. Would you advocate for Jackson or Murray to run less due to unnecessary risks? No because their legs are too vital to their offenses. Same goes for Allen. Look at the weapon he was inside the red zone and critical 3rd and 4th down plays.

 

I can see dailing it back if the Bills Rbs are effective and produce. That remains to be seen. Thus far, we know Allen's legs are every bit as elite as his arm. He appears to be very durable and intelligent enough to protect his body when he takes a hit. Sure, I cringe every time he takes a hit. 

 

Lastly, I would like to address the regular season vs playoffs. You have to play to win every regular season game. You develop a strategy and game plan accordingly to the team your playing. If that means utilizing Allen's legs then so be it. I don't think you can just all of a sudden use Allen's legs when the playoffs start. That's just a recipe for losing. 

 

In concluding, lots of unknowns about how effective the Bills run game will be. Motor looked very good, addition of Cook, a healthier Moss, and an improved Oline can led to lesser but more effective Allen runs. However, I'm still an advocate of letting Allen run. His legs are just too good to take that away. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by newcam2012

[newcam2012]

6 minutes ago, NewEra said:

The best chance of doing so is utilizing his legs….in the playoffs.  If they were smart, they’d have 2 different offenses.  1:  Regular season offense, where they limit his runs to passing play scrambles and very important 3rd downs.  Playoff offense: 

I just don't think that strategy is effective for several reasons. First off, their is no guarantee that the Bills makes the playoffs. You make the playoffs by winning regular season games. There are no easy games in the NFL. The Bills have a much more difficult schedule, our division opponents seem to have improved, and the Bills have a HUGE target on their backs as being the "team to beat." Thus, you play to win which likely means Allen will be using his legs. RPOs, designed runs, and inside the red zone. His running and threat too opens up the passing game more. A nightmare for opposing defenses to defend. 

 

I don't think you can just turn it on in the playoffs when your team hasn't done something all year. Saving Allen's legs for the playoffs seems foolish.

[BADOLBILZ]

36 minutes ago, NewEra said:

The best chance of doing so is utilizing his legs….in the playoffs.  If they were smart, they’d have 2 different offenses.  1:  Regular season offense, where they limit his runs to passing play scrambles and very important 3rd downs.  Playoff offense: 

 

 

Exactly.........once the playoffs arrive, everything is on the table.   But you can't have him running 15 times in a game like he had to against a lowly Atlanta team that they struggled to put away offensively last season and then expect him to be healthy come playoff time or to have a long career.     This half-stepping wrt offensive personnel could cut years off a career that we want to last another 15+ years if possible.

[YattaOkasan]

3 hours ago, ScottLaw said:

Saffold is almost a wash for Williams and we have no idea how Brown will develop… and Bates is now RG and doesn’t have Dawkins next to him.

 

“Much better” is a gigantic stretch… and Josh has never had a good offensive line so not saying much that it may be the best it’s ever been for him.

Lol what. Daryl Williams who is still a free agent after we cut him is a wash with a Rodger Saffold that just came off a pro bowl year to finish his contract. You think Rodger Saffold wouldn’t be signed right now as he’s a wash with Daryl Williams?  
 

So after your laughable first argument let’s assume you’re right on the rest. If bates can’t flip sides (cause he has only played all the OL spots), then I still think all our other iOL depth (besides ford) is better than Daryl Williams (who is unsigned lolol). Now brown regresses from what was an already inconsistent year. Quessenberry played better than him last year. So if he can maintain his play then we have still upgraded. 

 

Someone gif me a Billy Madison “may god have mercy on your soul”. At no point during your laughable arguments did you come close to making a salient point for why even in the worst case the line still hasn’t improved. 
 

agree josh has never had a good line so low bar. But wow that was a good laugh. Dudes not signed and he’s wash with Saffold.  We don’t know exactly what the league thinks of Saffold but we definitely know what it thinks of Williams (about as much as your take is worth 🤣)

Edited June 17, 2022 by YattaOkasan

[GunnerBill]

6 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

 

You suggested it’s much improved, that’s a really big stretch to say at this point. 

 

Agree. On Saffold is he an upgrade on Williams? Yes, but not a huge one. He has always been overrated IMO and he sucked in pass pro last year. Tannehill had one of the lowest times "from snap to pressure" numbers in the entire NFL. 

 

And I agree on Bates too. His performances were encouraging last year but he benefited from Dawkins playing his best football of the year down the stretch. We saw it the year before with Ike. Looked like a solid starting guard with Dion alongside him down the stretch in 2020, but at right guard last year next to Brown his limitations were definitely on show more. 

[newcam2012]

9 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Exactly.........once the playoffs arrive, everything is on the table.   But you can't have him running 15 times in a game like he had to against a lowly Atlanta team that they struggled to put away offensively last season and then expect him to be healthy come playoff time or to have a long career.     This half-stepping wrt offensive personnel could cut years off a career that we want to last another 15+ years if possible.

Disagree with the premise that running Allen is going to shorten his career. Right now, he is young, strong, and in his prime. His durability shouldn't be an issue. He has clearly shown that he can run well and sort of speak safely. Of course, dailung it back some will be optimal if others can produce. To make Allen a pure pocket passer would be a mistake. The Bills offense is much better with Allen running and the threat of him running. I think that's pretty straightforward. You just don't turn it on in the playoffs without doing something effectively in the regular season. The regular season games are extremely important to try to get a buy and home field advantage. Thus, the Bills should play to win and not play conservative or scared. Of course, playing smart which means utilizing Allen's legs. 

Edited June 17, 2022 by newcam2012