Rumor: Bills want to move up in draft, may move a veteran or two to accomplish it

[GunnerBill]

I do think it is time for the Bills to try and build around Allen with high end offensive talent. But equally they shouldn't leave potentially elite defensive talent on the board to force something at receiver. To me the only guy I think has some chance of getting to the Bills that I put in that category is Andrew Booth. If he is there I think they should take him. Otherwise I'd prefer offense. 

 

When I started my draft work in January I said that my three against the field for #25 were Andrew Booth, Chris Olave and Trevor Penning. They are still my guys. At the time I thought maybe Olave might have the best chance of slipping to our pick. Now I think maybe it is Booth.

[Logic]

58 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

This team drafting a CB will make at least one poster's head hurt.  His name is @BillfromNYC 

 

As to McCoach...his inability to understand and build an offensive unit is concerning now into his 6th off-season as a HC.  Because after the last game they played, he's head and shoulders above anyone else at OBD as the weak link.    

Yeah, having the 3rd and 2nd ranked offense in the league the last two years really demonstrates his inability to build an offense.

 

I thought the perfect offensive game against the Pats — something no other team in NFL history has EVER done — was particularly illuminating as to his inability to construct a good offense.

 

Honestly…what planet do some people live on?

Edited April 1, 2022 by Logic

[SCBills]

42 minutes ago, Lost said:

 

I agree, this coaching staff is a little too focused on the DL rotation.  Having said that I don't think there should be an over emphasis to draft a receiver in the first round.   

 

Of the top 10 receivers in the league last year, only 2 of them were first round draft picks, 1 was from 2nd, 4 were from 3rd and 3 from 5th.   I absolutely want to add more young receivers to the team but I think the value there is in the middle rounds.   I'm pretty content with Diggs, Davis, Crowder, McKenzie.  

 

I am not content with those 4 at WR… at all. 
 

We are a pass heavy team, and even with 2 legitimate TE’s, we can’t have our only option at WR2 being a guy who looks the part, but still remains to be seen that he can fully take the reigns and be a high end WR2 for the entire course of a season.  Also, our slot WR’s are a good player with injury issues and a guy who’s never played as the main option out of the slot for more than a couple games. 
 

This team, 100%, needs another high level WR. 
 

If it was my team, I’d go WR, OL, OL in the first three rounds.  I think we owe it to Josh Allen. 
 

If they’re worried about CB, which of course makes sense, put Edmunds on the trade block for a top 90 pick and draft his replacement with it.  Use his money on one of the legit corners still on the market or send our 4th to NYG for Bradberry, given we’d be able to absorb some of his salary. 

[NewEra]

47 minutes ago, SCBills said:

I know this isn’t directed to me, but I’ll respond because I agree with everything you said.  
 

I think we’ve handled this off-season about as well as I could’ve hoped.  
 

Allen Robinson would’ve been fun, and maybe he was the fall back if we didn’t get Von Miller, similar to what the Rams did when they lost Von to us. 
 

I think many of us are just dreading another high pick on defense.   I get it.. CB is a need, but unless we’re trading a vet or two off this defense, we have so much tied up on that side of the ball.   
 

Meanwhile we’ve provided Allen with a solid OL, meh RB’s and (good, potentially great) weaponry in the passing game with Diggs-Davis-Crowder-McKenzie-Knox-Howard as a very promising group of weapons, but are they instilling fear in opposing defenses?  Debatable. They fear 17, and because of 17, all those pieces are much scarier, but can we just give him one high pick as a weapon??  

The AFC is absurd, and we’ve devoted enough on defense to where CB at 25, or via trade-up, shouldn’t be a necessity.  We’ll land a vet before the season starts, we always do.  If they want to go CB in RD2 or RD3, fine.. but it’s becoming comical the level premium pick defensive investment on this team. 
 

 

Well said.  I agree, I hope we draft a Wr with our first pick.  I think there’s a good chance we do just that…..as long as the guys we want are available @25 (and the price of trading up isn’t too steep).  My hopes this offseason was that we could add a super star pass rusher, bolster the IDL, improve the OL and give Josh more playmakers.  It’s April 1 and we’ve literally done all of the above and has months to add more. 
 

I don’t think that the investment on D is comical.  I think it just shows that we’ve made some mistakes in FA and made some bad picks.  McD is a defensive HC and wasn’t happy with where his D was at.  Good, but not good enough….. especially when it counted most. He wants to fix that.  Yes….we’ve invested a lot in the DL….and it failed us because we added the wrong players….not because building a beast DL can’t win Super Bowls.  Other than having great QBs and coaching, having great defensive lines are more important than anything else in football imo.  It’s the one thing that can affect the qb on every snap. 
 

 

 

[NewEra]

5 minutes ago, Logic said:

Yeah, having the 3rd and 2nd ranked offense in the league the last two years really demonstrates his inability to build an offense.

 

I thought the perfect offensive game against the Pats — something no other team in NFL history has EVER done — was particularly illuminating as to his inability to construct a good offense.

 

Honestly…what planet do some people live on?

I agree but also see the other side.  Our offense too much Josh Allen.  Everything is on him 24/7.  He doesn’t have enough to lean on.  It will eventually lead to him breaking down/getting injured/potentially shortening his career.  We need to protect him from that.  That’s what people are saying.  I’m sure you agree

[SCBills]

8 minutes ago, NewEra said:

Well said.  I agree, I hope we draft a Wr with our first pick.  I think there’s a good chance we do just that…..as long as the guys we want are available @25 (and the price of trading up isn’t too steep).  My hopes this offseason was that we could add a super star pass rusher, bolster the IDL, improve the OL and give Josh more playmakers.  It’s April 1 and we’ve literally done all of the above and has months to add more. 
 

I don’t think that the investment on D is comical.  I think it just shows that we’ve made some mistakes in FA and made some bad picks.  McD is a defensive HC and wasn’t happy with where his D was at.  Good, but not good enough….. especially when it counted most. He wants to fix that.  Yes….we’ve invested a lot in the DL….and it failed us because we added the wrong players….not because building a beast DL can’t win Super Bowls.  Other than having great QBs and coaching, having great defensive lines are more important than anything else in football imo.  It’s the one thing that can affect the qb on every snap. 
 

 

 

I can’t complain about DL/OL investment.  
 

I mean, I do with the DL draft picks, but I shouldn’t ha. 
 

What gets frustrating is investing so much on the DL (valid) but then also needing to stud safeties, two heavily invested in linebackers, a high end slot corner, oh and we also have to upgrade cornerback.  
 

Meanwhile, we tell Josh to be elite with Diggs and RD3+ Picks. 

 

Credit where it’s due, they’ve hit on guys like Knox and Davis, but a guy like Edmunds and, to a lesser extent, Poyer and Hyde start to feel like luxuries that teams paying their QB 43M can’t really afford - unless, like us, we throw everything on the QB. 
 

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by SCBills

[gonzo1105]

19 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I do think it is time for the Bills to try and build around Allen with high end offensive talent. But equally they shouldn't leave potentially elite defensive talent on the board to force something at receiver. To me the only guy I think has some chance of getting to the Bills that I put in that category is Andrew Booth. If he is there I think they should take him. Otherwise I'd prefer offense. 

 

When I started my draft work in January I said that my three against the field for #25 were Andrew Booth, Chris Olave and Trevor Penning. They are still my guys. At the time I thought maybe Olave might have the best chance of slipping to our pick. Now I think maybe it is Booth.

 

None of those 3 imo will be available. I actually dont think the vast majority of the WR's will be there either. I think arguably the best WR on the board if we pick at 25 could be Jahan Dotson. I dont expect Wilson, Olave, London, Williams to be on the board. I suspect Burks wont either. I think your going to see heavy OL/DL in the top 10 followed by a run at WR in the teens to early 20's. 

[Logic]

12 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I agree but also see the other side.  Our offense too much Josh Allen.  Everything is on him 24/7.  He doesn’t have enough to lean on.  It will eventually lead to him breaking down/getting injured/potentially shortening his career.  We need to protect him from that.  That’s what people are saying.  I’m sure you agree

I agree with what you just said, to a degree, yes.

 

I don’t agree with the belittling, overly simplistic, hyperbolic “McCoach can’t build an offense” comment that Vet made.

 

I also don’t agree that there’s been a lack of effort to support Allen or that he lacks weapons in general. 
 

From signing Brown and Beasley and Morse, to trading for Diggs and drafting Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox, Devin Singletary, Zack Moss, and Spencer Brown, to signing Roger Saffold and OJ Howard and Jamison Crowder and re-signing Isaiah McKenzie, there has been a consistent effort to protect Josh and give home weapons. 
 

Those efforts have paid off by allowing the Bills to have a top three offense the past two seasons.

 

So yes, I want the Bills to keep stacking playmakers on offense. I’ve said numerous times this offseason I hope they draft a WR in the first round and another by round 5. But no, I don’t agree with the notion that they don’t know how to build an offense or haven’t put resources into doing so, or that Josh has to do too much because this offense is bereft of playmakers.

 

Also, I believe that no matter WHO they put on offense, Josh will always kind of look like he’s doing it all himself to a degree, because that’s who he is as a player. By the very nature of his will and next level effort, no one on offense is ever going to look like they’re doing as much or trying as hard as Josh Allen. That’s who he is, and that’s why we love him.

 

 

Edited April 1, 2022 by Logic

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

None of those 3 imo will be available. I actually dont think the vast majority of the WR's will be there either. I think arguably the best WR on the board if we pick at 25 could be Jahan Dotson. I dont expect Wilson, Olave, London, Williams to be on the board. I suspect Burks wont either. I think your going to see heavy OL/DL in the top 10 followed by a run at WR in the teens to early 20's. 

 

Certainly possible. If Booth, Penning and the top 5 receivers are gone I'd take a punt on Christian Watson personally. 

[SCBills]

20 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

None of those 3 imo will be available. I actually dont think the vast majority of the WR's will be there either. I think arguably the best WR on the board if we pick at 25 could be Jahan Dotson. I dont expect Wilson, Olave, London, Williams to be on the board. I suspect Burks wont either. I think your going to see heavy OL/DL in the top 10 followed by a run at WR in the teens to early 20's. 

Christian Watson would be interesting with his size and speed.   He needs some work, but wouldn’t be relied upon immediately with Diggs and Davis outside.  

[NewEra]

15 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

None of those 3 imo will be available. I actually dont think the vast majority of the WR's will be there either. I think arguably the best WR on the board if we pick at 25 could be Jahan Dotson. I dont expect Wilson, Olave, London, Williams to be on the board. I suspect Burks wont either. I think your going to see heavy OL/DL in the top 10 followed by a run at WR in the teens to early 20's. 

Agreed.  Do you think Dotson is worth 25?  Good speed and maybe the best hands in the draft.  Missing size.  I’ve long thought that he will be our pick at 25 and while I was hoping for one of the other guys, I’d be happy with adding a guy with his skills.  Problem with that pick….are there better players at other positions we’re bypassing to draft him instead?  I do think that we’ll go WR in rd 1 if their guys are available or if the price to trade up is affordable.  
 

While we have a hole at cb2 I expect Beane to sign a vet to a 1 year 2-4M prior to the draft.  That will allow us to bolster the O in rd 1 and 2 while using rd 3 on a guy like Josh Williams or Cam Taylor Britt.  

 

 

[SCBills]

5 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:

Don’t think anyone is saying they’ve ignored the offense…. To this point they’ve  just prioritized the defensive side of the ball while putting the offense secondary. More top heavy picks on the defense will only support this claim.

 

Disagree with your last paragraph. 

People who say it will always look like Josh is doing everything say that, because it’s all we know.  
 

They just need to look at Mahomes who game in, game out, has about 4 or 5 short passes turn into massive gains. 
 

Or Herbert checking it down to Ekeler for 15-20 yards a pop.  
 

Burrow hitting Chase on a short crosser that goes to the house. 
 

Etc etc etc.. 

[NewEra]

25 minutes ago, Logic said:

I agree with what you just said, to a degree, yes.

 

I don’t agree with the belittling, overly simplistic, hyperbolic “McCoach can’t build an offense” comment that Vet made.

 

I also don’t agree that there’s been a lack of effort to support Allen or that he lacks weapons in general. 
 

From signing Brown and Beasley and Morse, to trading for Diggs and drafting Gabe Davis, Dawson Knox, Devin Singletary, Zack Moss, and Spencer Brown, to signing Roger Saffold and OJ Howard and Jamison Crowder and re-signing Isaiah McKenzie, there has been a consistent effort to protect Josh and give home weapons. 
 

Those efforts have paid off by allowing the Bills to have a top three offense the past two seasons.

 

So yes, I want the Bills to keep stacking playmakers on offense. I’ve said numerous times this offseason I hope they draft a WR in the first round and another by round 5. But no, I don’t agree with the notion that they don’t know how to build an offense or haven’t put resources into doing so, or that Josh has to do too much because this offense is bereft of playmakers.

 

Also, I believe that no matter WHO they put on offense, Josh will always kind of look like he’s doing it all himself to a degree, because that’s who he is as a player. By the very nature of his will and next level effort, no one on offense is ever going to look like they’re doing as much or trying as hard as Josh Allen. That’s who he is, and that’s why we love him.

 

 

👍🏻 agreed.  
 

Our offense was very good overall, but  numerous breakdowns in pass protection + our inability to run the ball over the first 3/4 of the year + cover 2 she’ll led to some stagnation.  We usually broke the stumps by pounding josh allen on the ground.  Doing that in the playoffs is expected going forward, but limiting that during the season is a must.  We’re gonna need him for a long time.  

[BADOLBILZ]

49 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

I do think it is time for the Bills to try and build around Allen with high end offensive talent. But equally they shouldn't leave potentially elite defensive talent on the board to force something at receiver. To me the only guy I think has some chance of getting to the Bills that I put in that category is Andrew Booth. If he is there I think they should take him. Otherwise I'd prefer offense. 

 

When I started my draft work in January I said that my three against the field for #25 were Andrew Booth, Chris Olave and Trevor Penning. They are still my guys. At the time I thought maybe Olave might have the best chance of slipping to our pick. Now I think maybe it is Booth.

 

 

My concern would be that they aren't totally committed to keeping elite talent around Allen..........that now they think he is good enough that he should be able to elevate everyone around him on the offensive side and that they will always find an excuse to focus premium assets on defense.    Basically the Green Bay treatment.

 

I'd say that the odds favor them being able to get more help at receiver at #25 than at corner.

 

But the question may be who do you think will be the better pro.........Andrew Booth or Chris Olave/Jahan Dotson/Treylon Burks/Christian Watson/George Pickens(basically whoever one thinks is the better WR prospect likely to be there)?  

 

If the answer is definitely Booth then that should be the pick.........but if not and Booth is just prioritized there because of the perception that the defense is just one piece away from being "totally set" then that's probably the wrong way to go about making that decision.     If it's a toss up then I favor the Josh Allen side of the equation........that's the way it should be and it's also the side of the ball that's easier to maintain consistency on.  

[BillsVet]

1 hour ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

How do you mentally square up the contention that McDermott does not know how to build an offensive unit as a HC, with the fact that the Bills offense ranked 2nd and 3rd on PF the last 2 seasons, after the development of their QB and the steady addition of weapons for him at WR and TE?

 

Also, you mention "after the last game".  Most people seem to believe that the offense played absolutely lights-out in the last 2 games and especially the last game, and that the defense lost us the game.  How do you square that viewpoint (some would call it a fact) with your contention that offense is the problem?

 

Easy...I don't couch my take in regular season rankings that have nothing to do with playoff performance.  All of the people who love to cite Buffalo's "top ranked defense" never can admit that it failed when they needed it most.  Whether that was coaching or individual player, it's up for debate.  

 

Same goes for the offense.  Josh makes a lot of people look better than they actually are (see Divisional Playoff game), and that applies to the HC who has had friction with his 2 OC hires.  

 

[billsfan1959]

3 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

Same goes for the offense.  Josh makes a lot of people look better than they actually are (see Divisional Playoff game), and that applies to the HC who has had friction with his 2 OC hires.  

 

The same can be said for every great QB - that is why teams so desperately try to find them...

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, SCBills said:

Christian Watson would be interesting with his size and speed.   He needs some work, but wouldn’t be relied upon immediately with Diggs and Davis outside.  

 

 

A WR in round 1.........nowadays...........I would expect to rely upon them immediately.    They have been coming in hot for a while now and bearing in mind that Gabriel Davis was WR4 in 2020 and put up 600 yards and 7 TD's I would expect plenty of opportunity for a first round rookie WR to make an impact.

[OldTimer1960]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Certainly possible. If Booth, Penning and the top 5 receivers are gone I'd take a punt on Christian Watson personally. 

Man, that seems a little early to me for a guy from that level of competition.  I can see the physical tools are there and I know that he showed well at the Senior Bowl.  I also know that he didn’t have the best QB nor surrounding cast, but he is still a major projection to the NFL level to be considered at the end of round 1.  I know that others are projecting him borderline 1st as well and I also know that there are many precedents for small school guys going in the fist, so maybe I am just being too conservative in this evaluation.  It feels like Watson would be a consolation prize for failing to get Wilson, Olave, Burks, Williamson, etc.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, gonzo1105 said:

 

None of those 3 imo will be available. I actually dont think the vast majority of the WR's will be there either. I think arguably the best WR on the board if we pick at 25 could be Jahan Dotson. I dont expect Wilson, Olave, London, Williams to be on the board. I suspect Burks wont either. I think your going to see heavy OL/DL in the top 10 followed by a run at WR in the teens to early 20's. 

Dotson is intriguing.  I watched a ton of Penn State the last 2 years and while he was often college open due to blazing speed and defensive breakdowns he also made some ridiculous catches.  Like the first one in this video. He has great hands and plays fast but he is undersized for the NFL.

 

 

[SCBills]

11 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

A WR in round 1.........nowadays...........I would expect to rely upon them immediately.    They have been coming in hot for a while now and bearing in mind that Gabriel Davis was WR4 in 2020 and put up 600 yards and 7 TD's I would expect plenty of opportunity for a first round rookie WR to make an impact.

I mean more-so in the sense that our 11/12 personnel would be primarily Diggs/Davis, with a RD1 WR rotating in on the outside.   
 

They’d certainly play, but I wouldn’t expect them to start, unless we took Jameson Williams as he likely becomes our primary slot WR. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

37 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

Easy...I don't couch my take in regular season rankings that have nothing to do with playoff performance.  All of the people who love to cite Buffalo's "top ranked defense" never can admit that it failed when they needed it most.  Whether that was coaching or individual player, it's up for debate.  

 

OK...so you "couch" your take that McDermott doesn't know how to build an offensive unit on the playoff performance of that unit then?

Where they played "lights out"?  That doesn't make any more sense than your original take about "McCoach"

 

There are a lot of people here heavily critiquing the Bills defense based on failure when we needed it most, so I'm not sure what board you're reading

 

Seems to me these are just bad takes.

[BADOLBILZ]

7 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Dotson is intriguing.  I watched a ton of Penn State the last 2 years and while he was often college open due to blazing speed and defensive breakdowns he also made some ridiculous catches.  Like the first one in this video. He has great hands and plays fast but he is undersized for the NFL.

 

 

 

 

He's very good.

 

I think there is a perception that if it were down to Dotson or CB Andrew Booth Jr...........that Booth is obviously the better/more valuable asset.

 

I'm not sure that's the case.

 

I don't really know why this has happened exactly........the easy answer is to say that offense is more important than defense............. but WR has eclipsed CB in terms of premium salary expectations.

 

I thought the very top CB and WR contracts would be mirror images at this point in NFL history but that's not what is happening.

 

I know JC Jackson seemed to take a bad deal from the LAC but in general CB's aren't getting $20M+ aav deals...........top WR's are.

 

If a WR is even he's leavin' even applies to cash value of the position now.

 

[Turbo44]

24 minutes ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Man, that seems a little early to me for a guy from that level of competition.  I can see the physical tools are there and I know that he showed well at the Senior Bowl.  I also know that he didn’t have the best QB nor surrounding cast, but he is still a major projection to the NFL level to be considered at the end of round 1.  I know that others are projecting him borderline 1st as well and I also know that there are many precedents for small school guys going in the fist, so maybe I am just being too conservative in this evaluation.  It feels like Watson would be a consolation prize for failing to get Wilson, Olave, Burks, Williamson, etc.

You just described Josh Allen in 2017.  It's eerily similar

[Logic]

21 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Dotson is intriguing.  I watched a ton of Penn State the last 2 years and while he was often college open due to blazing speed and defensive breakdowns he also made some ridiculous catches.  Like the first one in this video. He has great hands and plays fast but he is undersized for the NFL.

 

 

I really like the Emmanuel Sanders comp for Dotson. His combination of quickness, route running, hands, and deep speed, and the fact that he has inside/outside versatility. Same height and weight.

 

Sanders was a high level receiver in this league for a long time, size be damned.

 

I would be very happy if the Bills drafted Dotson.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Logic

[OldTimer1960]

1 minute ago, Turbo44 said:

You just described Josh Allen in 2017.  It's eerily similar

Fair point and Allen so far has been better than the major college players who went ahead of him.  

1 minute ago, Logic said:

I really like the Emmanuel Sanders comp for Dotson. His combination of quickness, route running, hands, and deep speed, and the fact that he has inside/outside versatility.

 

I would be very happy if the Bills drafted Dotson.

I like Dotson a lot.  He seems like an exceptionally high floor/safe pick.  Only question with him is size/strength - at worst I think he is a very good slot receiver who has great hands and very good speed.  He is the kind of guy who has ability to turn those short crossers into long gains.  

[Brand J]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

He's very good.

 

I think there is a perception that if it were down to Dotson or CB Andrew Booth Jr...........that Booth is obviously the better/more valuable asset.

 

I'm not sure that's the case.

 

I don't really know why this has happened exactly........the easy answer is to say that offense is more important than defense............. but WR has eclipsed CB in terms of premium salary expectations.

 

I thought the very top CB and WR contracts would be mirror images at this point in NFL history but that's not what is happening.

 

I know JC Jackson seemed to take a bad deal from the LAC but in general CB's aren't getting $20M+ aav deals...........top WR's are.

 

If a WR is even he's leavin' even applies to cash value of the position now.

 

Never thought I’d see the day where WR contracts eclipse CB contracts. There’s a plethora of game breaking WRs in the league, but the same can’t be said for CB. You’d think the more glut of talent one position has, the cheaper the contracts would be, since it’s theoretically easier to replace the position with talent on cost-controlled contracts. Devante Adams’s agent broke the mold. With that said, I’m of the opinion we shouldn’t be shelling out that sort of cash to the WR position and if one is drafted in the first two rounds, it likely means one of Diggs, Davis, or the rookie WR will not see their next contract in Buffalo.

[Turbo44]

1 minute ago, OldTimer1960 said:

Fair point and Allen so far has been better than the major college players who went ahead of him.  

You'd be drafting potential, which you typically don't want to do in the 1st round, but what 6'4" 210 pound guys can you find who run a 4.36?  Read somewhere that he had the 2nd best athletic score of any wr since 1987.  Not sure who's first, I'd guess Randy Moss??

 

A deep threat like him can open up a lot of underneath routes along with the running game.  It's what Lofton and Beebe did for Andre Reed, Metzelaars, even Thurman Thomas.  The K gun offense didn't explode until we got Lofton

[BillsVet]

16 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

OK...so you "couch" your take that McDermott doesn't know how to build an offensive unit on the playoff performance of that unit then?

Where they played "lights out"?  That doesn't make any more sense than your original take about "McCoach"

 

There are a lot of people here heavily critiquing the Bills defense based on failure when we needed it most, so I'm not sure what board you're reading

 

Seems to me these are just bad takes.

 

Hapless, with all due respect...regular season stats/data/rankings and the like are not the only means of measuring competency or demonstrating an innovative offense.  It's the safe argument, which is what you focus on almost universally, but I'm concerned in the results, not the effort.  

 

A real look at the offensive draft picks and UFA dollars spent shows it's a secondary objective to the HC, who is architect of the team.  Now, before you point back to ancient history and cite "Stefan Diggs" show me where they've been using their top picks well on the offensive skill positions? 

 

Because aside from the trade for Diggs, they haven't used a first on an offensive player other than their franchise QB...in 5 drafts.  And their 2nd round picks aren't exactly setting the NFL on fire unless Dawkins, Zay, and Cody Ford are your cup of tea.    

 

Last season, until late when Josh was running the ball ~9x/game in their last 7 and their offense was helter-skelter.  A new OL scheme that didn't match with their players.  Signing guys like Sanders who wasn't capable of getting deep.  Putting McKenzie in late in the season when it was clear offensive speed was at a deficit.  Moving out former 3rd round pick Moss for UFA Breida.    

 

They may go draft a fine WR in Round 1.  But their UFA period was defense heavy and that approach never gets modified with McCoach at the helm.  It's always the priority and that's not gonna work...especially when opponents are already ahead of Buffalo.   

[GunnerBill]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

My concern would be that they aren't totally committed to keeping elite talent around Allen..........that now they think he is good enough that he should be able to elevate everyone around him on the offensive side and that they will always find an excuse to focus premium assets on defense.    Basically the Green Bay treatment.

 

I'd say that the odds favor them being able to get more help at receiver at #25 than at corner.

 

But the question may be who do you think will be the better pro.........Andrew Booth or Chris Olave/Jahan Dotson/Treylon Burks/Christian Watson/George Pickens(basically whoever one thinks is the better WR prospect likely to be there)?  

 

If the answer is definitely Booth then that should be the pick.........but if not and Booth is just prioritized there because of the perception that the defense is just one piece away from being "totally set" then that's probably the wrong way to go about making that decision.     If it's a toss up then I favor the Josh Allen side of the equation........that's the way it should be and it's also the side of the ball that's easier to maintain consistency on.  

 

No I agree with that totally. Booth is the exception to me because I am super high on him. I am not really sure why the chatter on him is more lukewarm. I have him as the 4th best player in the class. His tape is pretty faultless. I'd probably take Sauce as well he is my #5 player but there is no chance he lasts.

 

Beyond that I am about building the offense. In the world where the corners, the 5 top WRs and Penning are gone my top grade at a premium position would be Kyler Gordon (well it would be Ojabo then Gordon but he has an injury flag). I have them both a point ahead of where I have Christian Watson but I'd be willing to take the gamble on Watson. I think he is a bit of a punt, low floor but super high ceiling. @OldTimer1960 is not wrong that it would be a risky pick. But at some point they have to be willing late in the 1st to take risks on playmakers. If he works out he would be emerging as a true #1 threat just at the point when you are wanting to ease off Diggs somewhat. 

1 hour ago, BillsVet said:

 

Easy...I don't couch my take in regular season rankings that have nothing to do with playoff performance.  All of the people who love to cite Buffalo's "top ranked defense" never can admit that it failed when they needed it most.  Whether that was coaching or individual player, it's up for debate.  

 

Same goes for the offense.  Josh makes a lot of people look better than they actually are (see Divisional Playoff game), and that applies to the HC who has had friction with his 2 OC hires.  

 

 

Friction, sure. But he had his second OC for 4 years and in that time they built two top performing offenses and developed a raw prospect into one of the top 3 QBs in the game. 

 

I mean if he can make similar strides with his next OC hire he can have all the friction in the world for all I care. 

[BillsVet]

10 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Friction, sure. But he had his second OC for 4 years and in that time they built two top performing offenses and developed a raw prospect into one of the top 3 QBs in the game. 

 

I mean if he can make similar strides with his next OC hire he can have all the friction in the world for all I care. 

 

Elite QB's elevate the players and coaches around them.  You never look at that aspect in black and white, but Josh definitely is a big reason Daboll has a HC gig now.  Was Daboll really that good as a play-caller.  Friction, well, I'd guess that's present on most coaching staffs with A type personalities.  But I digress.

 

The risk averse mentality that inhabits message boards really doesn't matter.  Most people are careful and cautious with their takes for fear of alienating the homers.  But when you look around the conference and teams are are being bold on offense AND defense, well it's hard to see where the organization is supporting Josh this off-season.  My guess is, their solution is to run the ball more and take pressure off him.  

 

 

[ngbills]

On 3/31/2022 at 10:34 AM, RyanC883 said:

 

would Edmunds be a veteran?  

I would say no. Still on his rookie contract. 

[SCBills]

3 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Elite QB's elevate the players and coaches around them.  You never look at that aspect in black and white, but Josh definitely is a big reason Daboll has a HC gig now.  Was Daboll really that good as a play-caller.  Friction, well, I'd guess that's present on most coaching staffs with A type personalities.  But I digress.

 

The risk averse mentality that inhabits message boards really doesn't matter.  Most people are careful and cautious with their takes for fear of alienating the homers.  But when you look around the conference and teams are are being bold on offense AND defense, well it's hard to see where the organization is supporting Josh this off-season.  My guess is, their solution is to run the ball more and take pressure off him.  

 

 

Ill hold off until after the draft to form an opinion of their off-season as related to Josh Allen.   
 

So far, in general, I give this off-season an A+.  
 

Where they’ll lose me is with a premium pick filled defensive draft, ie.. RD1 CB plus another defensive player like LB or S in the Top 100.  
 

At minimum, this offense needs another high level WR.    Ideally we also get an IOL & OT in the top half of the draft to compete for starting spots or, more likely, provide stronger depth as they develop. 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Elite QB's elevate the players and coaches around them.  You never look at that aspect in black and white, but Josh definitely is a big reason Daboll has a HC gig now.  Was Daboll really that good as a play-caller.  Friction, well, I'd guess that's present on most coaching staffs with A type personalities.  But I digress.

 

The risk averse mentality that inhabits message boards really doesn't matter.  Most people are careful and cautious with their takes for fear of alienating the homers.  But when you look around the conference and teams are are being bold on offense AND defense, well it's hard to see where the organization is supporting Josh this off-season.  My guess is, their solution is to run the ball more and take pressure off him.  

 

 

 

 

I do tend to think they will try to run the ball more often.........Dorsey was a game manager QB at The U who lived off the protection of a strong running game and play action throws to TE's with occasional deep shots to then wide open receivers.   It got him a ring and is likely still part of his DNA, at least.  

 

I'm not entirely against that with Allen.......I think he could be great in a 2 TE offense......... but it is different than what he's mostly done under Daboll.

 

A heavy 12 personnel look might alleviate some of the issues they had with the lack of RAC while being a spread offense.   The offense the Bills ran under Daboll eventually required someone to make a play on a short pass in the backfield or within a few yards of the LOS and they didn't have that last season..........so they pulled the emergency lever and started running Allen.

 

But even in 12 personnel.....assuming Knox and Howard both perform admirably.........they still need players who can make explosive plays in the passing game to make it work at a 30 ppg level.    

 

That's Diggs and Davis right now.........but Davis hasn't done it week in and out yet and the next name on the X/Z receiver list is Kumerow and that ain't good enough.

 

[K-9]

4 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

This team drafting a CB will make at least one poster's head hurt.  His name is @BillfromNYC 

 

As to McCoach...his inability to understand and build an offensive unit is concerning now into his 6th off-season as a HC.  Because after the last game they played, he's head and shoulders above anyone else at OBD as the weak link.    

We’ve had a top 5 offense two years running and it’s your contention that McBeane hasn’t built an offensive unit? OK then.

[GunnerBill]

28 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

Elite QB's elevate the players and coaches around them.  You never look at that aspect in black and white, but Josh definitely is a big reason Daboll has a HC gig now.  Was Daboll really that good as a play-caller.  Friction, well, I'd guess that's present on most coaching staffs with A type personalities.  But I digress.

 

The risk averse mentality that inhabits message boards really doesn't matter.  Most people are careful and cautious with their takes for fear of alienating the homers.  But when you look around the conference and teams are are being bold on offense AND defense, well it's hard to see where the organization is supporting Josh this off-season.  My guess is, their solution is to run the ball more and take pressure off him.  

 

 

Well you can't accuse me of being risk averse. I have never cared whether my opinions are popular. I say what I think. I'll give you an opinion here that is unpopular even with the "homers" - yes, Brian Daboll was a pretty good play caller. 

 

As for them needing to do more to support Josh, I 100% agree. I don't think they have done enough on the oline, I was critical of the Saffold deal. And they need to get a legit receiver in the first two rounds of the draft. I will be the first one calling them out next season if they start running it more and taking the ball out of Josh Allen's hands. I just don't think that will be the plan. 

[starrymessenger]

1 hour ago, Jauronimo said:

Dotson is intriguing.  I watched a ton of Penn State the last 2 years and while he was often college open due to blazing speed and defensive breakdowns he also made some ridiculous catches.  Like the first one in this video. He has great hands and plays fast but he is undersized for the NFL.

 

 

Undersized was the rap against DeSaun Jackson. We passed on him for the big boy Hardy. Dotson is a first round talent imo so I wouldn’t be miffed at all if he were the pick. Don’t know that Beane feels the same way.

[NewEra]

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well you can't accuse me of being risk averse. I have never cared whether my opinions are popular. I say what I think. I'll give you an opinion here that is unpopular even with the "homers" - yes, Brian Daboll was a pretty good play caller. 

 

As for them needing to do more to support Josh, I 100% agree. I don't think they have done enough on the oline, I was critical of the Saffold deal. And they need to get a legit receiver in the first two rounds of the draft. I will be the first one calling them out next season if they start running it more and taking the ball out of Josh Allen's hands. I just don't think that will be the plan. 

I think that we’ll be running about the same but I think the threat of the run will be much greater with the addition of Saffold.  I know he’s not your guy due to his pass pro, but the defense has to account for him in the run game.  
 

I don’t think the addition of Kromer can be understated.  His offenses have success running the ball wherever he goes.  Add Oj Howard and more 12 personnel and I think we’re more capable of keeping the defenses honest…..while staying with our passing attack

[GunnerBill]

18 minutes ago, NewEra said:

I think that we’ll be running about the same but I think the threat of the run will be much greater with the addition of Saffold.  I know he’s not your guy due to his pass pro, but the defense has to account for him in the run game.  
 

I don’t think the addition of Kromer can be understated.  His offenses have success running the ball wherever he goes.  Add Oj Howard and more 12 personnel and I think we’re more capable of keeping the defenses honest…..while staying with our passing attack

 

And that is what it should be about. Run better not run more.

[Allen2Moulds]

2 hours ago, Turbo44 said:

You'd be drafting potential, which you typically don't want to do in the 1st round, but what 6'4" 210 pound guys can you find who run a 4.36?  Read somewhere that he had the 2nd best athletic score of any wr since 1987.  Not sure who's first, I'd guess Randy Moss??

 

A deep threat like him can open up a lot of underneath routes along with the running game.  It's what Lofton and Beebe did for Andre Reed, Metzelaars, even Thurman Thomas.  The K gun offense didn't explode until we got Lofton

I haven't looked it up, but I believe it's Calvin Johnson. Who are are referencing, Watson?

[BillsVet]

52 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Well you can't accuse me of being risk averse. I have never cared whether my opinions are popular. I say what I think. I'll give you an opinion here that is unpopular even with the "homers" - yes, Brian Daboll was a pretty good play caller. 

 

As for them needing to do more to support Josh, I 100% agree. I don't think they have done enough on the oline, I was critical of the Saffold deal. And they need to get a legit receiver in the first two rounds of the draft. I will be the first one calling them out next season if they start running it more and taking the ball out of Josh Allen's hands. I just don't think that will be the plan. 

 

My contention about the risk averse nature of people was not directed at you GB.  It's a general observation that's only grown over the years, particularly as the stakes are raised by a team that's getting into the playoffs. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by BillsVet