PBF81 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) 36 minutes ago, BillStime said: And a stadium in OP does what for the region? Keeps the Bills in WNY. Seems to me that the options always were, based upon Pegula's indirect statements and implications, a moderately priced stadium in OP since the state & county are essentially paying for it and Kim said that they weren't paying for it, or the team moving. There are already reasonble objections to the amount of public funding going into it. Imagine if it were another $500M to $1B. If that were mostly public my guess is that it would be enough to sink the whole project. Anyone that wanted more should write to Terry and take it up with him. He's the one that made this decision and who will make any future decisions that will impact the future location of the team. He could sell it next month if he wanted to and get as much as he could with the new owner moving it elsewhere. He could also spend his money to see it get done. He should on his knees thanking the state and people of NYS for their share of funding. It'll be fine, if they ever actually iron out this never-ending list of details and approvals. A retractable roof would be better, but the concourses, as with all other modern stadiums, will be a lot roomier and able to accommodate a whole lot more people moving and milling around. Edited March 20 by PBF81 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 1 hour ago, BillStime said: And a stadium in OP does what for the region? exactly what it would do if it was downtown. Keep the team in Buffalo. That’s ALL it does I have no more words for you people that don’t understand it. Christ. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrenchConnection Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 There is a stadium in downtown Cincinnati. It sits there like an albatross except for 8-9 times a year. The baseball stadium drives more traffic to restaurants and bars down even though the Reds have been bad for a decade. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 21 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said: There is a stadium in downtown Cincinnati. It sits there like an albatross except for 8-9 times a year. The baseball stadium drives more traffic to restaurants and bars down even though the Reds have been bad for a decade. Thank You. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 32 minutes ago, FrenchConnection said: There is a stadium in downtown Cincinnati. It sits there like an albatross except for 8-9 times a year. The baseball stadium drives more traffic to restaurants and bars down even though the Reds have been bad for a decade. So what you’re saying, is that a sports arena (Great American Ball Park) is in the city, and it drives traffic to restaurants and bars? Even though they have been bad for a decade? but somehow a football stadium in city that doesn’t actually have a stadium in it wouldn’t reap some of the same rewards. Got it. 42 minutes ago, JoPoy88 said: exactly what it would do if it was downtown. Keep the team in Buffalo. That’s ALL it does I have no more words for you people that don’t understand it. Christ. That’s funny. We were thinking the same thing about you. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrenchConnection Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 1 hour ago, mrags said: So what you’re saying, is that a sports arena (Great American Ball Park) is in the city, and it drives traffic to restaurants and bars? Even though they have been bad for a decade? but somehow a football stadium in city that doesn’t actually have a stadium in it wouldn’t reap some of the same rewards. Got it. That’s funny. We were thinking the same thing about you. Because a good football team that sells out every game only plays ax maximum 11 homes games a year. Let’ say the stadium holds 60,000. Even at 9 games that’s 540,000 a year. If a bad baseball team draws 15,000 a game. at 81 games that’s 1,215,000 a season. There is also a tradition of tailgating at football games that baseball games don’t have. I’m not saying that stadiums are a bad investment. But I am saying that NFL stadiums are a bad investment. At most, a team plays 11 home games. The worst baseball team plays 81 home games with a minimum of 15,000 tickets sold. Here in Cincinnati the Reds have a much more positive impact in the downtown economy even though the Bengals are SB contenders and the Reds are a last place team. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) 4 hours ago, mrags said: Come on. It’s keeping Big Tree, Kettles, and Danny’s in business. Lmao just stop It’s keeping the Buffalo Bills in business…. Everybody who talks junk… It’s just junk pseudo The bills did decades of research…. There is no Positive influence, From a downtown stadium compared to one in Orchard Park Decades of research show the financial difference is minute …. A brand new NFL stadium brings about the same economic revenue as a new target A brand new Bill stadium downtown compared to Orchard Park brings in about the same as a new target… And that is from decades of research The bills get to keep one thing playing in WNY…. And that’s the Buffalo bills! Seriously half the people who are clamoring for a downtown stadium don’t live in Buffalo Because real Buffalonians are extremely fine with the Bill staying in Western New York Edited March 20 by Buffalo716 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrags Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 3 hours ago, FrenchConnection said: Because a good football team that sells out every game only plays ax maximum 11 homes games a year. Let’ say the stadium holds 60,000. Even at 9 games that’s 540,000 a year. If a bad baseball team draws 15,000 a game. at 81 games that’s 1,215,000 a season. There is also a tradition of tailgating at football games that baseball games don’t have. I’m not saying that stadiums are a bad investment. But I am saying that NFL stadiums are a bad investment. At most, a team plays 11 home games. The worst baseball team plays 81 home games with a minimum of 15,000 tickets sold. Here in Cincinnati the Reds have a much more positive impact in the downtown economy even though the Bengals are SB contenders and the Reds are a last place team. Bad investment or not. A stadium in a place with more possibility for growth is much better than in a place that will never grow. Your right. It’s a bad investment. Why not put it in a place that may do some good. 1 hour ago, Buffalo716 said: Lmao just stop It’s keeping the Buffalo Bills in business…. Everybody who talks junk… It’s just junk pseudo The bills did decades of research…. There is no Positive influence, From a downtown stadium compared to one in Orchard Park Decades of research show the financial difference is minute …. A brand new NFL stadium brings about the same economic revenue as a new target A brand new Bill stadium downtown compared to Orchard Park brings in about the same as a new target… And that is from decades of research The bills get to keep one thing playing in WNY…. And that’s the Buffalo bills! Seriously half the people who are clamoring for a downtown stadium don’t live in Buffalo Because real Buffalonians are extremely fine with the Bill staying in Western New York Ummm, I am a real buffalonian. Live in the suburbs now and have for all. It 2 years of my life. I love my city. Just wish every once in a while we made the right decisions and tried to better ourselves instead of going the cheap small minded route. I am happy they are staying here. But a stadium smack dab in the middle of nowhere is just dumb. Always has been. Do a lookup in every NFL team and tell me how many have stadiums in the suburbs. I guarantee it’s less than 10 and likely more like 5. Bad investment or not, the rest of the nfl puts their stadiums in their cities. Not East bumf$&k nowhere with no potential for growth. you guys can call me wrong all you want. But a stadium in the middle of nowhere doesn’t make sense other than doing it for less money. The Bills studies proved it was less money and that’s why it was chosen to go that route. Because Terry didn’t want to buck up another $500m or more. Poor Terry, if he paid that he wouldn’t be able to afford gas for his yatch. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoPoy88 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 17 minutes ago, mrags said: Bad investment or not. A stadium in a place with more possibility for growth is much better than in a place that will never grow. Your right. It’s a bad investment. Why not put it in a place that may do some good. Ummm, I am a real buffalonian. Live in the suburbs now and have for all. It 2 years of my life. I love my city. Just wish every once in a while we made the right decisions and tried to better ourselves instead of going the cheap small minded route. I am happy they are staying here. But a stadium smack dab in the middle of nowhere is just dumb. Always has been. Do a lookup in every NFL team and tell me how many have stadiums in the suburbs. I guarantee it’s less than 10 and likely more like 5. Bad investment or not, the rest of the nfl puts their stadiums in their cities. Not East bumf$&k nowhere with no potential for growth. you guys can call me wrong all you want. But a stadium in the middle of nowhere doesn’t make sense other than doing it for less money. The Bills studies proved it was less money and that’s why it was chosen to go that route. Because Terry didn’t want to buck up another $500m or more. Poor Terry, if he paid that he wouldn’t be able to afford gas for his yatch. I live in Buffalo too. I’ve also lived in Boston. No one complained about the stadium in Foxborough, beyond the obvious complaints about traffic. Especially when they were winning all the time, everything was cool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 25 minutes ago, mrags said: Do a lookup in every NFL team and tell me how many have stadiums in the suburbs. I guarantee it’s less than 10 and likely more like 5. This is a prime example of a false perspective that maybe a lot of people share, which leads to unrealistic expectations. Start in the east and you have 5 teams right off the bat: Patriots, Giants/Jets, Washington, Bills 5 stadiums all in the suburbs and that's not even looking at the rest of the NFL. Off the top of my head I know Arizona and GB (obviously) are in suburbs. Isn't Cowboys stadium in Arlington? That's 8.... Should we keep going? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 Still going because I got curious. Levi Stadium is in North San Jose, not even in San Francisco... Chicago is planning to build there's in the suburbs Arrowhead is outside of the East Side suburbs. Definitely not downtown. Houston is definitely not downtown, but relatively short jaunt down the highway, so that seems nice.... The Chargers in San Diego and Raiders in Oakland were out in the suburbs until they moved to huge cities. But let's not forget that the Chargers don't even have they're own stadium now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teef Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 4 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: The bills did decades of research…. There is no Positive influence, From a downtown stadium compared to one in Orchard Park Does this assume the additional cost that would be needed, it just doesn't pay back? There are a lot of people here who sound like toddlers who want their fancy toy but there are limits to what Daddy (onwer, state, county) will spend. There are many people who want nothing to do with it, the fact is you are getting good chunk of public money. Things cost money, stadiums cost lots of money, it has to come from somewhere, in this case Daddy doesn't have it or is unwilling to pay it, so we all need to accept that. The alternative could be the Bills were gone from the region. People have "ideas" about what the impact would be if it was a dome or downtown and some of that just sounds good, its not factual. At the end of the day, no decision was going to make people happy. If it was downtown and a dome, there would be backlash. At some point need to just accept what it is and move on. You ain't changing it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, LeGOATski said: This is a prime example of a false perspective that maybe a lot of people share, which leads to unrealistic expectations. Start in the east and you have 5 teams right off the bat: Patriots, Giants/Jets, Washington, Bills 5 stadiums all in the suburbs and that's not even looking at the rest of the NFL. Off the top of my head I know Arizona and GB (obviously) are in suburbs. Isn't Cowboys stadium in Arlington? That's 8.... Should we keep going? Lambeau Field is located in an urban residential neighborhood. It may not be in downtown Green Bay, but it’s not in the suburbs either. As to the larger point being made about stadium locations, a third are located in downtown areas, another third are located in the city but not downtown, and a third are located in suburban areas. I believe Gillette is considered to be in an exurban area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
May Day 10 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 (edited) The downtown stadium would have been a lot of extra cost and time. It wasn't specifically mentioned, but I would bet lots of red tape: studies, committees, resistance, etc. Especially down near cobblestone/Perry. You are crowbarring a stadium down there. A lot of acquisition, demo, and major infrastructure work. As it is, traffic for Sabres games can get REALLY bad. This is for 10-ish dates a year. If their studies bore that they could have had a magnetic draw like Atlanta or Dallas, then it is a different story. The competition for all those events is getting intense now that we have LA and Vegas joining the fray, and soon Nashville. We would be competing for secondary events against Minnesota, Detroit, Indy, and now the renovated Skydome. The delta between the time and money required vs possible revenue was clearly not in favor of building downtown. The State/County/City/Pegulas can probably put a fraction of that delta into renovating the Key Bank center and continue to attract plenty of events to keep those businesses down there (mostly restaurants and pubs) sustained. I would love to see a permanent Molson Amphitheatre style concert venue downtown by the water. Could put Darien Lake out of business, and probably host 40+ events from the Spring to Fall. I said it upthread, but the key to downtown development is business. We need large companies anchored downtown with people living, commuting, and spending down there. They wouldn't be able to develop and build stuff fast enough. We are a region where much of the $ is in the 2nd ring suburbs and it kind of works its way inward (Not saying the closer to the city, the poorer you are, I know very well off people who live in the city)... Edited March 20 by May Day 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, K-9 said: Lambeau Field is located in an urban residential neighborhood. It may not be in downtown Green Bay, but it’s not in the suburbs either. As to the larger point being made about stadium locations, a third are located in downtown areas, another third are located in the city but not downtown, and a third are located in suburban areas. I believe Gillette is considered to be in an exurban area. "Urban residential neighborhood" is different than suburb?Just look at a map and images of the area. Anyway, that's two thirds of the league. Not 5 teams, like @mragsand probably some other people assume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBF81 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 2 hours ago, May Day 10 said: I said it upthread, but the key to downtown development is business. We need large companies anchored downtown with people living, commuting, and spending down there. Great point! But that goes hand in hand with the notion that NYS has been chasing those very businesses, while ensuring that others never come, due to their ridiculously high taxes. In short, file under never going to happen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 56 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: "Urban residential neighborhood" is different than suburb?Just look at a map and images of the area. Anyway, that's two thirds of the league. Not 5 teams, like @mragsand probably some other people assume. Yes, it is different because the stadium is located within the Green Bay city limits. As I mentioned above, one third of the league’s stadiums are considered to be located in suburban areas. Certainly more than the five @mragsmentioned but far less than the two thirds that are located in either downtown areas or within actual city limits. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillStime Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 13 hours ago, JoPoy88 said: exactly what it would do if it was downtown. Keep the team in Buffalo. That’s ALL it does I have no more words for you people that don’t understand it. Christ. So, you're telling us that a stadium in the city would do jack for the region? We should spend $1B+ in OP and get nothing for our investment for the region? Let me guess - die hard tailgater? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FieldGeneral Posted March 20 Share Posted March 20 What's the point in arguing about roof/no roof or downtown/OP? The plans are what they are, they aren't changing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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