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New "ironclad" Stadium deal reached


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44 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

All of wny is Indian “burial grounds”

So…. We’re screwed and will never win the SB. We might as well sell the team to Toronto 

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Just now, mrags said:

So…. We’re screwed and will never win the SB. We might as well sell the team to Toronto 

Toronto area had tons of 6 nation people 

 

Maybe that’s why the leafs always sucked for the last 80 years lmao

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Just now, Buffalo716 said:

Toronto area had tons of 6 nation people 

 

Maybe that’s why the leafs always sucked for the last 80 years lmao

Well damn it. There is no where safe. Maybe we can have a home field in Terrys Yatch. It’s likely big enough after all the money he’s saving from tax payers paying for the stadium. 

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A new stadium in Denver? Already?
 

I always admired their stadium - can’t we just dismantle it and move it to Buffalo?

 


When I was in Tottenham last year for a Premier League game - I really liked their stadium… in the city… built into the urban core but man - ours looks absolutely pathetic compared to these other gems:

 

 

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3 hours ago, BillStime said:

A new stadium in Denver? Already?
 

I always admired their stadium - can’t we just dismantle it and move it to Buffalo?

 


When I was in Tottenham last year for a Premier League game - I really liked their stadium… in the city… built into the urban core but man - ours looks absolutely pathetic compared to these other gems:

 

 

Go ahead and put an extra $billion into the stadium, then

 

Or in SoFi's case, an extra $4 billion

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On 3/21/2023 at 11:11 PM, PBF81 said:

 

Originally they were supposed to break ground in November of 22.  Then it got pushed back "a little," then yes, they said March, and more recently they said they'll start milling around and staring at the property soon, probably with hardhats and clipboards, to get everyone excited.  They may even plant a porta-potty at the flag at the "50." 

 

Now it's June when the "big digging" will begin.  Come May it'll be in November again.  Next February there'll be a hologram of it.  Be advised if you go in and use the restrooms.  

 

 

 

Last article they put out said that the "big digging" would begin in June.  Not sure I believe that, but that's what it said.  They said they'd be doing some other stuff prior to then, but they didn't say what specifically, but it wasn't any kind of significant digging.  

 

 

The speed (or rather lack of) at which anything is done there is beyond comprehension. 
If the geniuses that make decisions on these matters had acted when the Pegulas took ownership, they’d already be playing in a decent facility that would’ve been built at a cost for a fraction of what the proposed one will. 
  Considering the current lifespan of modern NFL stadiums and the snail-like pace of WNY (in)action, maybe they should begin a feasibility study and architectural cost and design for the next stadium after the one that’s supposedly opening in 2026. 

  Whatever costs have been projected better be revised monthly to account for runaway inflation and the devalued dollar. 
  I will not be surprised if the whole thing is scrapped or the already crappy design gets simplified further as the project can’t be done anywhere close to the original cost estimated. They’ll probably start tap dancing around the truth by announcing ongoing delays they’ll attribute to some logistical or bureaucratic nonsense while they try to come up with solutions. 
  If I appear cynical it’s because I’ve been witnessing the same WNY political clown show since the late 60’s-early 70’s when there was a plan for a domed  stadium to be built in Lancaster. If not for Ralph Wilson’s threats of moving the team, Rich Stadium wouldn’t have been built as early as it was, if at all. 

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4 hours ago, SoMAn said:

The speed (or rather lack of) at which anything is done there is beyond comprehension. 
If the geniuses that make decisions on these matters had acted when the Pegulas took ownership, they’d already be playing in a decent facility that would’ve been built at a cost for a fraction of what the proposed one will. 
  Considering the current lifespan of modern NFL stadiums and the snail-like pace of WNY (in)action, maybe they should begin a feasibility study and architectural cost and design for the next stadium after the one that’s supposedly opening in 2026. 

  Whatever costs have been projected better be revised monthly to account for runaway inflation and the devalued dollar. 
  I will not be surprised if the whole thing is scrapped or the already crappy design gets simplified further as the project can’t be done anywhere close to the original cost estimated. They’ll probably start tap dancing around the truth by announcing ongoing delays they’ll attribute to some logistical or bureaucratic nonsense while they try to come up with solutions. 
  If I appear cynical it’s because I’ve been witnessing the same WNY political clown show since the late 60’s-early 70’s when there was a plan for a domed  stadium to be built in Lancaster. If not for Ralph Wilson’s threats of moving the team, Rich Stadium wouldn’t have been built as early as it was, if at all. 

 

LOL at your first sentence.  It really is.  

 

Agree on the rest, and being skepical to begin with, it's enough to make one wonder whether it's actually going to go down.  One thing after another, what we're being told and have been told hasn't lined up, we presently have no lease to play in just four months, and some engineering site with info about the project states that work would begin mid-year.  Someone here facetiously made a statement about the last "meeting" and approvals of the approvals etc.  LOL  I'll believe it when I see the heavy excavating equipment doing it's work.  I'm sure that someone living around there will post pics once that happens.  And where's Pegula on all of this?  Sure, we all get it, Kim's in a bad way and that comes first, but it does make one wonder what's going through his mind, particularly since Kim/family does come first.  When's the last time he said anything publicly about any of this, what, a year ago?  I'm not one of those people that believes that if he were ever to sell the team that it would be bought by someone that would keep it in WNY, I don't care what anyone says about "clauses" and the like.  

 

NYS politics ... LOL  

 

 

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Buffalo can't have anything nice. Why should they be punching well above their weight for an NFL team.

 

As someone said up-thread: I will believe it when I see the heavy excavating equipment at One Bills Drive.

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On 3/25/2023 at 11:16 AM, PBF81 said:

 

LOL at your first sentence.  It really is.  

 

Agree on the rest, and being skepical to begin with, it's enough to make one wonder whether it's actually going to go down.  One thing after another, what we're being told and have been told hasn't lined up, we presently have no lease to play in just four months, and some engineering site with info about the project states that work would begin mid-year.  Someone here facetiously made a statement about the last "meeting" and approvals of the approvals etc.  LOL  I'll believe it when I see the heavy excavating equipment doing it's work.  I'm sure that someone living around there will post pics once that happens.  And where's Pegula on all of this?  Sure, we all get it, Kim's in a bad way and that comes first, but it does make one wonder what's going through his mind, particularly since Kim/family does come first.  When's the last time he said anything publicly about any of this, what, a year ago?  I'm not one of those people that believes that if he were ever to sell the team that it would be bought by someone that would keep it in WNY, I don't care what anyone says about "clauses" and the like.  

 

NYS politics ... LOL  

 

 

Yeah. The “clauses” are 

Meaningless to the people that would be buying the team. The chances are the next NFL team sells for at least 3B if not more. So I’d imagine in 5 years time, 10 years time, whatever it is, it won’t matter. The super ultra rich are the people buying teams now. You’re Jeff Bezos’ of the world. They would easily fork out 5B for a team and throw in an other 1-2B on top of it if needed to move them. And chances are they wouldn’t have to spend any money on a new stadium but cause somewhere like Austin or somewhere else would gladly pony up for a new NFL stadium/team. 

1 hour ago, boater said:

Buffalo can't have anything nice. Why should they be punching well above their weight for an NFL team.

 

As someone said up-thread: I will believe it when I see the heavy excavating equipment at One Bills Drive.

We don’t belong in the conversation. The rest of the league owners probably hate that Buffalo is in the league. They are likely pissed at themselves for not finding someone sooner to buy the team and move then when we hadn’t won anything in 15+ years after Ralph died. 

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6 hours ago, mrags said:

Yeah. The “clauses” are 

Meaningless to the people that would be buying the team. The chances are the next NFL team sells for at least 3B if not more. So I’d imagine in 5 years time, 10 years time, whatever it is, it won’t matter. The super ultra rich are the people buying teams now. You’re Jeff Bezos’ of the world. They would easily fork out 5B for a team and throw in an other 1-2B on top of it if needed to move them. And chances are they wouldn’t have to spend any money on a new stadium but cause somewhere like Austin or somewhere else would gladly pony up for a new NFL stadium/team. 

We don’t belong in the conversation. The rest of the league owners probably hate that Buffalo is in the league. They are likely pissed at themselves for not finding someone sooner to buy the team and move then when we hadn’t won anything in 15+ years after Ralph died. 

That’s literally all opinion

 

Not every single professional sports team needs to be in a massive Metropolis like New York City or Austin Texas

 

People act like the bills are in Fargo North Dakota

 

Buffalo is the second largest city in the state of New York and a massive shipping and trading hub on the Canadian border


People act like there’s 95,000 people in the area lol

 

its a historic franchise in a small passionate market … There’s a market for that In the nfl

Edited by Buffalo716
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2 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

That’s literally all made up BS

 

Not every single professional sports team needs to be in a massive Metropolis like New York City or Austin Texas

 

People act like the bills are in Fargo North Dakota

 

Buffalo is the second largest city in the state of New York and a massive shipping and trading hub on the Canadian border


People act like there’s 95,000 people in the area lol

 

its a historic franchise in a small passionate market … There’s a market for that In the nfl

 

Not to burst your bubble, but given that Green Bay draws from Milwaukee, Buffalo has by a country mile the worst financial market/base of any NFL team.  That's what you need to look at and consider.  

 

It's also a diminishing market.  

 

As I've pointed out numerous times, if Buffalo didn't already have a team, no owner looking to relocate would even consider Buffalo, and we'd have zero chance of getting an expansion team if even one were offered.  We wouldn't even make the short-list for consideration.  

 

We're lucky to have a team still.   The one wild-card is TV revenues.  The financial model for the NFL has changed over the past many years and TV revenues are driving things more than anything.  To your last point.   I don't know how all that works.  There are some complicated things in the NFL's revenue sharing model, and now with streaming it's changing the game there, no pun intended.  

 

Let's see, hopefully those of us expressing concerns are doing so for nothing.  

 

 

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3 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Not to burst your bubble, but given that Green Bay draws from Milwaukee, Buffalo has by a country mile the worst financial market/base of any NFL team.  That's what you need to look at and consider.  

 

It's also a diminishing market.  

 

As I've pointed out numerous times, if Buffalo didn't already have a team, no owner looking to relocate would even consider Buffalo, and we'd have zero chance of getting an expansion team if even one were offered.  We wouldn't even make the short-list for consideration.  

 

We're lucky to have a team still.   The one wild-card is TV revenues.  The financial model for the NFL has changed over the past many years and TV revenues are driving things more than anything.  To your last point.   I don't know how all that works.  There are some complicated things in the NFL's revenue sharing model, and now with streaming it's changing the game there, no pun intended.  

 

Let's see, hopefully those of us expressing concerns are doing so for nothing.  

 

 

If you’re gonna say Green Bay draws from Milwaukee

 

Well then Buffalo draws from Toronto which is closer market

 

And Buffalo is an original AFL franchise 

Edited by Buffalo716
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1 hour ago, PBF81 said:

 

Not to burst your bubble, but given that Green Bay draws from Milwaukee, Buffalo has by a country mile the worst financial market/base of any NFL team.  That's what you need to look at and consider.  

 

It's also a diminishing market.  

 

As I've pointed out numerous times, if Buffalo didn't already have a team, no owner looking to relocate would even consider Buffalo, and we'd have zero chance of getting an expansion team if even one were offered.  We wouldn't even make the short-list for consideration.  

 

We're lucky to have a team still.   The one wild-card is TV revenues.  The financial model for the NFL has changed over the past many years and TV revenues are driving things more than anything.  To your last point.   I don't know how all that works.  There are some complicated things in the NFL's revenue sharing model, and now with streaming it's changing the game there, no pun intended.  

 

Let's see, hopefully those of us expressing concerns are doing so for nothing.  

 

 

100% in this and anyone that thinks otherwise is fooling themselves. 
 

in 1960 Buffalo had a population that was over 500k. It was the 20th largest city in the US. That’s ahead of places like: 

Atlanta

Miami

San Jose

Oakland

Phoenix

Tampa

Indianapolis

Denver

Kansas City

Minneapolis

Austin

Nashville

 

now…. Buffalo ranks 78th in the list with a population of 278k. Behind places like:

Anchorage 

Tulsa

Wichita

Lincoln

Durham

Plano

Chandler

Chula Vista

 

As a city we’ve done nothing but dwindle away. 
 

the exports from Buffalo have long been gone. We are now a city of customer service and hospitality. Serving those few people that do actually have decent jobs. 
 

“Buffalo and the surrounding area were long involved in railroad commerce, steel manufacture, automobile production, aircraft/aerospace design and production, Great Lakes shipping and grain storage. Most of these industries have left the city through the years. Major steel production no longer exists in the area, although several smaller steel mills remains in operation. As of the 1950 United States Census, Buffalo was the 15th largest city in the country, the nation's largest inland port (12th overall), second biggest rail center, sixth largest steel producer, and eighth largest manufacturer.”

 

The loss of traditional jobs in manufacturing, rapid suburbanization and high costs of labor have led to economic decline, making Buffalo one of the poorest among U.S. cities with populations of more than 250,000 people. An estimated 28.7–29.9% of Buffalo residents live below the poverty line, behind either only Detroit,[29] or only Detroit and Cleveland.[30][31]Buffalo's median household income of $27,850 is third-lowest among large cities, behind only Miami and Cleveland; however the median household income for the metropolitan area is $57,000.”


“Buffalo faces issues with vacant and abandoned houses, as the city ranks second to St. Louis on the list of American cities with the most vacant properties per capita.”

 

“A major culprit in Buffalo’s collapse was a shift in transportation technology, reducing the importance of the Erie Canal and of the cities that arose to take advantage of it. In the 1830s, you would have been mad to set up a manufacturing firm in New York State that didn’t have access to the canal or some other waterway. Starting in the 1910s, though, trucks made it easy to deliver products and get deliveries—all you needed was a nearby highway. Rail became more efficient: the real cost of transporting a ton one mile by rail has fallen 90 percent since 1900. Then the Saint Lawrence Seaway opened in 1957, connecting the Great Lakes to the Atlantic and allowing grain shipments to bypass Buffalo altogether. These shocks didn’t just hit the New York canal cities; every city on the Great Lakes and the Mississippi River, its water-based advantages eroded, lost industries to areas with cheaper labor costs.

Other trends compounded Buffalo’s woes. Improvements in electricity transmission made companies’ proximity to Niagara Falls increasingly irrelevant. Mechanization meant that the industry that did remain in the city needed fewer bodies. The appeal of the automobile induced many to leave the older center cities for the suburbs, where property was plentiful and cheaper, or to abandon the area altogether for cities like Los Angeles, built around the car. And Buffalo’s dismal weather didn’t help. January temperatures are one of the best predictors of urban success over the last half-century, with colder climes losing out—and Buffalo isn’t just cold during the winter: blizzards regularly shut the city down completely. The invention of air conditioners and certain public health advances made warmer states even more alluring“


“Buffalo wasn’t a particularly skilled city in 1970, and it isn’t one now. Fewer than 19 percent of the city’s adults boast a college degree; the number in Manhattan is 57.5 percent. Whereas New York always had some industries, such as finance, that required brainpower, Buffalo’s industries were invariably brawn-based. Buffalo wasn’t a university town like Boston, and it didn’t have Minneapolis’s Scandinavian passion for good lower education. It had the right skill mix for making steel or flour, not for flourishing in the information age.”

 

https://www.city-journal.org/html/can-buffalo-ever-come-back-13050.html

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3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

If you’re gonna say Green Bay draws from Milwaukee

 

Well then Buffalo draws from Toronto which is closer market

 

And Buffalo is an original AFL franchise 

 

Not even close in impact.  Neither does Canada's financial base factor in.  

 

 

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13 hours ago, mrags said:

We don’t belong in the conversation. The rest of the league owners probably hate that Buffalo is in the league. They are likely pissed at themselves for not finding someone sooner to buy the team and move then when we hadn’t won anything in 15+ years after Ralph died. 

 

9 years according to my FB memories this past weekend.  Just seems like longer.  

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11 minutes ago, Just Jack said:

 

9 years according to my FB memories this past weekend.  Just seems like longer.  

Before, during and after. He was alive for a bunch of it and it continued for years after as well. Still, even though we made the playoffs in 99’ that was kinda of a joke then too. False hope from a midget QB that couldn’t see past his centers hips. 

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14 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

That’s literally all opinion

 

Not every single professional sports team needs to be in a massive Metropolis like New York City or Austin Texas

 

People act like the bills are in Fargo North Dakota

 

Buffalo is the second largest city in the state of New York and a massive shipping and trading hub on the Canadian border


People act like there’s 95,000 people in the area lol

 

its a historic franchise in a small passionate market … There’s a market for that In the nfl

Yes, but in the end it’s all about $$ with the NFL.
 The days of young scamps named butch sporting newsboy caps peeping through knotholes to watch for free are over.  
 The era of the an average blue collar family of 4 going to multiple games is largely a thing of the past when a day at the stadium could eat up a good chunk of that weekly paycheck. It’s now geared towards the white collar upper class. 
 WNY could be the greatest market for fan support and still fall closer to the bottom of generated revenue when competing against teams in Dallas, L.A., Vegas, etc. 

  The Bills should remain in Buffalo for some time, but at some point one of those mega billionaires will want in and money talks. Pegulas will listen. 

  

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4 hours ago, SoMAn said:

Yes, but in the end it’s all about $$ with the NFL.
 The days of young scamps named butch sporting newsboy caps peeping through knotholes to watch for free are over.  
 The era of the an average blue collar family of 4 going to multiple games is largely a thing of the past when a day at the stadium could eat up a good chunk of that weekly paycheck. It’s now geared towards the white collar upper class. 
 WNY could be the greatest market for fan support and still fall closer to the bottom of generated revenue when competing against teams in Dallas, L.A., Vegas, etc. 

  The Bills should remain in Buffalo for some time, but at some point one of those mega billionaires will want in and money talks. Pegulas will listen. 

  

That’s the way people’s brains think everything works

 

There is a market for places like Green Bay buffalo and Cleveland in the NFL

 

Again it does not all need to be New York City Los Angeles Chicago Dallas

 

In an NFL league with 32 teams or 54 there is absolutely a market for the Buffalo Bills

 

Unequivocally without a doubt

 

And I know dozens of season-ticket holders and none of them are upper class white collar

12 hours ago, PBF81 said:

 

Not even close in impact.  Neither does Canada's financial base factor in.  

 

 

Like 15% of our season-ticket holders are from Toronto

 

Milwaukee does not pay County taxes for lambau… It’s in a different county

 

So I don’t see where you say they’re drawing money from them Unless it’s from customers… Because the county doesn’t give the Packers anything in Milwaukee… Besides playing games there over the years and customers 


Last time I checked we played in Toronto too… And 15% of season-ticket holders are from Toronto

 

And we’re drawing from Rochester as well

 

If Milwaukee residence buying Packers tickets counts… Toronto residence buying Bill season tickets count

 

Because they’re buying 15-20 % of season tickets 

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45 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

That’s the way people’s brains think everything works

 

There is a market for places like Green Bay buffalo and Cleveland in the NFL

 

Again it does not all need to be New York City Los Angeles Chicago Dallas

 

In an NFL league with 32 teams or 54 there is absolutely a market for the Buffalo Bills

 

Unequivocally without a doubt

 

And I know dozens of season-ticket holders and none of them are upper class white collar

Like 15% of our season-ticket holders are from Toronto

 

Milwaukee does not pay County taxes for lambau… It’s in a different county

 

So I don’t see where you say they’re drawing money from them Unless it’s from customers… Because the county doesn’t give the Packers anything in Milwaukee… Besides playing games there over the years and customers 


Last time I checked we played in Toronto too… And 15% of season-ticket holders are from Toronto

 

And we’re drawing from Rochester as well

 

If Milwaukee residence buying Packers tickets counts… Toronto residence buying Bill season tickets count

 

Because they’re buying 15-20 % of season tickets 

 

It's not about STHs, that part of it anyway.  Not sure how you picked that up.

 

 

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