Motor26 Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) 27 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: This is a fair take. I respect it. If people don’t value Hall as an elite RB, that is fine. But I firmly believe this team is an elite RB away from winning multiple Super Bowls. It is true, that an elite RB by themselves will not win you Super Bowls, which I agree with posters who have already stated as such, but I believe this team is different and it needs one. Allen is beyond elite, and having an elite RB will force teams from playing high shell. It makes Allen infinitely more dangerous. Having an elite RB doesn’t mean we have to take the ball out of Allen’s hands. It just means we have that extra piece to keep defenses honest. It’s an almost impossible task given how good Allen is. It’s what we need. It’s what will get us a Lombardi. Just my opinion though. How “elite” is Hall or any running back going to be behind our below average run blocking offensive line? Hard to be an elite running back when you’re running into your own offensive line cuz they can’t open up holes. Edited April 20, 2022 by Motor26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 1 hour ago, NewEra said: Every positions are key contributors to winning Super Bowls….. so are special teams coordinators that know how to communicate orders to their kickers. Did you watch this last super bowl? How important was the RB position to the rams winning the title? 19 rushes- 28 yards from Akers, Michel and henderson. Why? Because the OL didn’t open up any holes. But I bet Breece Hall would’ve run for 19 times for 128 yards because he’s so elite. Riiiight The fact of the matter was they continued to try to run in order to make the defense respect the threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: The fact of the matter was they continued to try to run in order to make the defense respect the threat. That doesn’t prove anything other than you don’t have to be successful running the ball in order to win the super bowl. 19 minutes ago, Motor26 said: How “elite” is Hall or any running back going to be behind our below average run blocking offensive line? Hard to be an elite running back when you’re running into your own offensive line cuz they can’t open up holes. Haven’t you seen Jonathan Taylor? He’s elite…. End sarcasm. Edited April 20, 2022 by NewEra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 https://heavy.com/sports/buffalo-bills/breece-hall-rb-draft-pick-2022/amp/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Solomon Grundy said: https://heavy.com/sports/buffalo-bills/breece-hall-rb-draft-pick-2022/amp/ “The idea of the Bills selecting a running back with their No. 25 overall pick, even if they went for Hall, 5-foot-11, 278 pounds, who recorded 41 rushing touchdowns over the past two seasons at Iowa State — the prospect was met with strongly mixed reactions.” but let’s discount any Joe Marino material because he said negative things about josh Allen as a prospect. 😘 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, NewEra said: but let’s discount any Joe Marino material because he said negative things about josh Allen as a prospect. 😘 She’s a reporter not a football analyst. Why don’t you quote what the analysts said, you SPINSTER? Analysts like Joe Buscaglia and Matt Miller are included in the article 19 minutes ago, NewEra said: That doesn’t prove anything other than you don’t have to be successful running the ball in order to win the super bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Who Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 If we want Breece Hall, we should trade back from 25, because you probably get him near the top of the second. I'm rather convinced Jameson Williams is going too early to even consider trading up for. I still like Olave, Watson, and Burks @25 or a small trade up, Booth, or Kenyon Green if he falls within trading distance. There might be a few others, but for the most part, I think this is a tactical draft. Trade up or stand pat for a few particular players, otherwise, trade down if there are takers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 We wanted Eteniene last year. Anyone that is upset we might take one at 25 this year isn’t paying attention. Eteniene is a pass catching back, so is Breece Hall. McD said he wants a Thurman Thomas to go with Allen. People are not paying attention. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 4 minutes ago, Solomon Grundy said: She’s a reporter not a football analyst. Why don’t you quote what the analysts said, you SPINSTER? Analysts like Joe Buscaglia and Matt Miller are included in the article Because I didn’t re read the article as I already read it when it came out 7 days ago. I just remembered reading the article and laughing at the typo. Buscaglia and Millers opinions have been discussed already……as has mine….and yours….and everyone’s on the website…..not much else to say. You know how I feel. He’s my rb2 behind Walker. I love watching great running backs run and would be happy with either of them @ 57. I think either would be great additions….but wouldn’t be smart picks at 25. If we picked either @ 25, I wouldn’t be mad, but I would think that we should’ve taken someone else. Then I would love watching them play in Buffalo for 4-5 years with hopes they can win us a super bowl. Literally nothing else to say. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 50 minutes ago, Motor26 said: How “elite” is Hall or any running back going to be behind our below average run blocking offensive line? Hard to be an elite running back when you’re running into your own offensive line cuz they can’t open up holes. I think Saffold and Bates will actually make a difference 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 Yes please!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: We wanted Eteniene last year. Anyone that is upset we might take one at 25 this year isn’t paying attention. Eteniene is a pass catching back, so is Breece Hall. McD said he wants a Thurman Thomas to go with Allen. People are not paying attention. Agree with this. I think Breece Hall is a good value at #25 There’s a big drop off at corner after sauce and stingley. Lots of WR depth to be had throughout the draft, and it’s not a major need. If you can get the best RB on the board in Breece, as a current super bowl favorite that has weakness in the running game, it’s a good pick. The fact that he’s a pass-catching back would be a huge boon for Allen and the team as well. The guy is a TD-maker and would make us that much better. Bottom of the first round is more than a reasonable spot for an elite RB pick. Edited April 20, 2022 by Aurelius 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 10 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: We wanted Eteniene last year. Anyone that is upset we might take one at 25 this year isn’t paying attention. Eteniene is a pass catching back, so is Breece Hall. McD said he wants a Thurman Thomas to go with Allen. People are not paying attention. Just dont see it at 25. That doesnt mean a rb would not be in consideration in the 2nd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: We wanted Eteniene last year. Anyone that is upset we might take one at 25 this year isn’t paying attention. Eteniene is a pass catching back, so is Breece Hall. McD said he wants a Thurman Thomas to go with Allen. People are not paying attention. James Cook is the best pass catching RB in the draft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 Just now, YoloinOhio said: James Cook is the best pass catching RB in the draft Cook is my 2nd favorite RB in the class just because of this. If we don’t draft Hall, I hope we draft Cook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YoloinOhio Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, Aurelius said: Agree with this. I think Breece Hall is a good value at #28. There’s a big drop off at corner after sauce and stingley. Lots of WR depth to be had throughout the draft, and it’s not a major need. If you can get the best RB on the board in Breece, as a current super bowl favorite that has weakness in the running game, it’s a good pick. The fact that he’s a pass-catching back would be a huge boon for Allen and the team as well. The guy is a TD-maker and would make us that much better. Bottom of the first round is more than a reasonable spot for an elite RB pick. It’s not a consensus that Hall is the best RB in the draft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Grundy Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: It’s not a consensus that Hall is the best RB in the draft Is there a consensus #1 at any position in this draft? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: It’s not a consensus that Hall is the best RB in the draft He has the best well rounded stats. He has over 1.4k rushing yards, can catch really well. Scores touchdowns every game. If I had to pick a RB it would be Hall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 14 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: We wanted Eteniene last year. Anyone that is upset we might take one at 25 this year isn’t paying attention. Eteniene is a pass catching back, so is Breece Hall. McD said he wants a Thurman Thomas to go with Allen. People are not paying attention. There is no proof they wanted Eteniene. The people covering the Bills said he was never really in play for the Bills and they never looked to move up. DE was the want for the Bills. In addition the team that drafted him - moved him to WR not RB. Before the injury they exclusively practiced him at Slot and outside WR. He was not Thurman - he was their version of McKenzie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said: There is no proof they wanted Eteniene. The people covering the Bills said he was never really in play for the Bills and they never looked to move up. DE was the want for the Bills. In addition the team that drafted him - moved him to WR not RB. Before the injury they exclusively practiced him at Slot and outside WR. He was not Thurman - he was their version of McKenzie. I don’t think Eteniene is a “Thurman” , just that McD is on record saying he wants an elite RB like Thurman. Just going off of what McD has said and his frustrations with Daboll, I would not be surprised at all if we draft Hall now. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurelius Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said: It’s not a consensus that Hall is the best RB in the draft Agree. Definitely gonna trust the Bills scouts on this stuff. It also doesn’t mean we can’t get “our” guy in the second round. I’m just saying that I don’t think the end of the first is a bad spot for us to take a RB. I think it’s far from a done deal and the front office might not favor either of these guys. Breece hall though, as an overall back, considering his bonafide receiving ability, looks the part. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
papazoid Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) not with our 1st rounder yes in the unlikely event he was there in the 2nd Edited April 20, 2022 by papazoid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 20 hours ago, Logic said: We can all argue until we're blue in the face about analytics, contracts, and draft value, but if the question "what helps the Bills offense the most?" is asked, then "running back" might be a more realistic answer than WR3/WR4. The question "what helps the Bills offense the most" in the short term, is the wrong question for the draft. The draft is for the long haul, the future. And the longer term needs to include finances in the picture. The draft is key in cap management. And cap management is key to long term success. At pick 25 you'll pay about $3M for several years. With an RB that $3M is looking to unseat Singletary at $2M while the WR3 is taking Sanders spot at $6M. If the WR becomes good he is worth Will Fuller to C Kirk money $10-15M, if the RB is good they are worth L Fournette money $6-7M. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Einstein's Dog said: The question "what helps the Bills offense the most" in the short term, is the wrong question for the draft. The draft is for the long haul, the future. And the longer term needs to include finances in the picture. The draft is key in cap management. And cap management is key to long term success. At pick 25 you'll pay about $3M for several years. With an RB that $3M is looking to unseat Singletary at $2M while the WR3 is taking Sanders spot at $6M. If the WR becomes good he is worth Will Fuller to C Kirk money $10-15M, if the RB is good they are worth L Fournette money $6-7M. Exactly. Rb might have the biggest impact in 2022….but likely not in 2023+. Certainly not 2026+ When Josh allen will only be in year 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 21 hours ago, Logic said: The question that I have -- and I don't know the answer, I'm just asking -- is: Is Breece Hall as good as, say, Jonathan Taylor? Because if he is, in my opinion, the whole "1st round RB is a bad value" argument goes out the window. To me, there's no denying that adding a Jonathan Taylor level running back talent to this offense would be the single best/fastest way to upgrade it, more so than adding a WR3/WR4. When opposing teams start going two-high all day long against the Bills next year, a dynamic running back will help a lot more than a slot receiver. We can all argue until we're blue in the face about analytics, contracts, and draft value, but if the question "what helps the Bills offense the most?" is asked, then "running back" might be a more realistic answer than WR3/WR4. And for what it's worth, Brandon Beane has plainly stated that he doesn't subscribe to the idea of "never take a running back in the 1st round", and that if the Bills ever view a running back as the BPA in round one, they won't hesitate to draft him. I'm just pointing this out because so many in the draft community are anti 1st round RB, but our GM doesn't seem to be one of these people. That's notable. Oh, and one more thing: Breece Hall is just 20 years old. Brandon Beane loves drafting young players with his 1sts. Absolutely fantastic take. This is exactly where I’m currently at. A player like Hall is a logical pick to help the offensive strategy to keep defenses honest. It’s the spot that makes the most sense for this team as far as immediate improvement. 5 minutes ago, Einstein's Dog said: The question "what helps the Bills offense the most" in the short term, is the wrong question for the draft. The draft is for the long haul, the future. And the longer term needs to include finances in the picture. The draft is key in cap management. And cap management is key to long term success. At pick 25 you'll pay about $3M for several years. With an RB that $3M is looking to unseat Singletary at $2M while the WR3 is taking Sanders spot at $6M. If the WR becomes good he is worth Will Fuller to C Kirk money $10-15M, if the RB is good they are worth L Fournette money $6-7M. This is generally true. But this offense doesn’t need a Will Fuller or C Kirk. It needs an elite RB to make teams play more 8 in the box. We have to stop defenses from playing 2 high shell. A talented RB is the only thing that will do that. An elite RB is what this offense needs to give Allen multiple avenues to win. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: Absolutely fantastic take. This is exactly where I’m currently at. A player like Hall is a logical pick to help the offensive strategy to keep defenses honest. It’s the spot that makes the most sense for this team as far as immediate improvement. For 2022. Yes….already stated 100 times. When using the 25th pick in the draft, making a selection based on one seasons immediate impact is 👎🏻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 1 minute ago, NewEra said: For 2022. Yes….already stated 100 times. When using the 25th pick in the draft, making a selection based on one seasons immediate impact is 👎🏻 Not only for 2022, likely for 2023 and 2024 as well. It fits the Von Miller window. Honestly answer me this question. Other teams defenses play a lot of 2 high shell against Allen. How do we get teams to stop doing this so Allen has more openings? The only way to do that is to have a running threat that commands 8 in the box at times. I’m not saying Hall is 100% that RB, but he gives us the best available chance at that. It’s a logical pick, and helps us win right now. If we win 1 or 2 Super Bowls with Hall, nobody is going to care about 2026 Allen. It will be gravy at that point. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 If you guys don’t want Hall, fine. But would you guys be open for a trade for an elite RB? Would you give up top picks for a player like Kamara? Can you imagine this offense with a RB line Kamara. Holy flying F. Talk about unstoppable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 How can anyone dislike that comment. It’s a fact that teams play 2 high shell against us. It’s a fact that an elite RB is the only thing that will get teams to stop doing that. Drafting a WR2/3 does nothing to prevent teams from not playing 2 high shell. Sorry, as much as people are against drafting an elite RB or trading for one, it’s needed to provide more avenues for Allen. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beach Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 we were all 16 once Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Beach said: we were all 16 once Lol nobody has answered how are we supposed to get defenses from playing 2 high shell. I’m waiting. The answers are already in this thread. Either draft Hall or trade for an elite RB of your choice. Drafting will be cheaper. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rochesterfan Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 3 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: How can anyone dislike that comment. It’s a fact that teams play 2 high shell against us. It’s a fact that an elite RB is the only thing that will get teams to stop doing that. Drafting a WR2/3 does nothing to prevent teams from not playing 2 high shell. Sorry, as much as people are against drafting an elite RB or trading for one, it’s needed to provide more avenues for Allen. That is complete BS. Mahomes and Josh both showed the most effective way to handle a 2 high safety look is to be patient and use the open WRs and TEs that are short and wide to stretch the coverage. It can also involve a RB/FB in the passing game as they used Singletary in quick passes. The difference was in YPR - as the RBs did not get as many yards as the receivers and therefore were less effective at moving the chains. The one thing we have seen is that an effective running game does not necessarily force a team out of playing 2 high safeties because they would prefer to see you have to slowly move the ball and see if you get impatient. They then pack in more near the goal line and try to hold you to 3. There is not a team in this league that would not love to see the Bills run the ball more and will do everything to invite that as much as possible. Elite RBs have not been a difference to any SB winners in a long time. The RBs of teams in the SB have been cast offs and low value guys - that can get you yards, but only need very limited touches. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Draconator Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 I voted no in the poll, not because I don't like Hall, (I do). I voted no because of the OP and my personal thoughts of him. Maybe I should start a poll for people to guess what my thoughts are of the OP? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milanos Milano Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said: That is complete BS. Mahomes and Josh both showed the most effective way to handle a 2 high safety look is to be patient and use the open WRs and TEs that are short and wide to stretch the coverage. It can also involve a RB/FB in the passing game as they used Singletary in quick passes. The difference was in YPR - as the RBs did not get as many yards as the receivers and therefore were less effective at moving the chains. The one thing we have seen is that an effective running game does not necessarily force a team out of playing 2 high safeties because they would prefer to see you have to slowly move the ball and see if you get impatient. They then pack in more near the goal line and try to hold you to 3. There is not a team in this league that would not love to see the Bills run the ball more and will do everything to invite that as much as possible. Elite RBs have not been a difference to any SB winners in a long time. The RBs of teams in the SB have been cast offs and low value guys - that can get you yards, but only need very limited touches. It’s not BS though. Nobody is saying take the ball out of Allen’s hands. Having a back like Hall just standing in the backfield will make teams play differently than they are now. Hall is a better pass catcher, and faster than Singletary. He would get greater YAC than Singletary. It’s the obvious pick and hopefully Beane pulls the trigger. 3 minutes ago, Draconator said: I voted no in the poll, not because I don't like Hall, (I do). I voted no because of the OP and my personal thoughts of him. Maybe I should start a poll for people to guess what my thoughts are of the OP? I’m sorry you feel that way. I hope you have a great day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, IronMaidenBills said: It’s not BS though. Nobody is saying take the ball out of Allen’s hands. Having a back like Hall just standing in the backfield will make teams play differently than they are now. Hall is a better pass catcher, and faster than Singletary. He would get greater YAC than Singletary. It’s the obvious pick and hopefully Beane pulls the trigger. I’m sorry you feel that way. I hope you have a great day. “It’s a fact that an elite RB is the only thing that will get teams to stop doing that” That is complete BS. Edited April 20, 2022 by NewEra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestak4ever Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 I’m not against taking a running back with the 25th pick, whether it’s Hall or someone else, however there is no guarantee that they will be good enough to alter defenses against us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Einstein's Dog Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 2 hours ago, IronMaidenBills said: This is generally true. But this offense doesn’t need a Will Fuller or C Kirk. It needs an elite RB to make teams play more 8 in the box. We have to stop defenses from playing 2 high shell. A talented RB is the only thing that will do that. An elite RB is what this offense needs to give Allen multiple avenues to win. This team needs premium positions under rookie contracts. The days of buying $7M WR3's are coming to an end. We need to home grow them. This team is not built to rely on the RB and should keep the process of using a lower draft pick to fill the need. If Hall or Walker is there in the 2nd the Bills should consider it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapeBreton Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Hmm where does Breece Hall fall? I’m going to guess the Bills don’t have a first round grade on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, NewEra said: “It’s a fact that an elite RB is the only thing that will get teams to stop doing that” That is complete BS. He he also disagreed that Devin singletary would look good behind the colts offensive line I don't disagree that Breece Hall and Taylor are better.. but singletary took shady's job as a rookie and is still 4.6 yards per carry career He isn't a scrub Some stats that show our offensive line is a bigger problem... As a rookie singletary faced a stacked box on 8% of carries... He averaged 5.6 yards per carry on that stacked box... Very good Last year on a stacked box.. which was only 3% of the time Singletary averaged 1.8 yards per carry Singletary didn't become 5 yards per carry worse.. our line really struggles at blocking a stacked box On a base front. Singletary still averages 5.3 yards per carry last year... On a light box 4.4... we aren't great at blocking a light box either Singletary was 19th in touches , but 13th in evaded tackles.. he had to make a lot of guys miss at all levels We struggle to run block Edited April 20, 2022 by Buffalo716 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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