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Looks like the call to squib may not have made it to Bass


Reed83HOF
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Just now, Billl said:

This doesn’t even make sense.  Why would it take 6 seconds to return a kick 5 yards?  Why would you assume that your special teams guys who make the league minimum are better equipped to defend the most explosive team in the NFL than the best defense in the NFL?

 

In case you haven't noticed, our ST guys don't make league minimum.  We invest a fair amount of roster spots and $$ on dedicated STer.

 

Just now, Billl said:

There were  9 kickoff returns for TDs in the NFL this year.  There were 0 scoring drives of 40+ yards that started with 13 seconds or less on the clock.  In that situation, you don’t tell your Special Teams coach to help you win the game.  The game was won.  You tell him not to f*** it up.  Every Bills fan on the planet wishes that Scott Kristie had kicked it through the end zone.

 

Who is Scott Kristie?

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42 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:

 

Blocks happen...

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/talkoffame/nfl/rick-gosselins-2021-nfl-special-teams-rankings

 

Rick Gosselin is excellent at this, the STs were not bad

 

Let's grant that Gosselin is "excellent at this" and the ST overall ranked 8th in the league.  That would be relative to the #1 defense and the #3 offense, so there's that - they're still the worst unit on the team, despite giving a number of roster spots to ST specialists (Taiwan Jones, Neal, Kumerow, Matekavich, Andre' Smith, plus the punter, kicker, and LS).

 

That said: Blocks happen....to how many teams?

I'll answer:  6. 

 

In addition, we had several punts that don't count as blocks, but that were pretty well muffed for one reason or another

 

I'm not saying it's a "firing offense" but, it was pretty clear there was some communication/assignment issues involved in the failed block that led to the blocked punt for 7 points vs the Steelers.

 

There's been a bunch of stuff....McKenzie had a number of strong returns called back by penalty, the penalty on Taiwan Jones, the fact that we went into camp with 4 guys who had KR/PR experience, came out of camp with 3, and wound up with Hyde returning punts and maybe coaching/development played a role?  etc

 

Just not impressed with our ST given the investment

 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

In case you haven't noticed, our ST guys don't make league minimum.  We invest a fair amount of roster spots and $$ on dedicated STer.

 

 

Who is Scott Kristie?

In Greek mythology, this is the cursed kicker who is a combination of Scott Norwood, Steve Christie and Krusty the Clown.

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1 hour ago, Billl said:

This doesn’t even make sense.  Why would it take 6 seconds to return a kick 5 yards?  Why would you assume that your special teams guys who make the league minimum are better equipped to defend the most explosive team in the NFL than the best defense in the NFL?

 

There were  9 kickoff returns for TDs in the NFL this year.  There were 0 scoring drives of 40+ yards that started with 13 seconds or less on the clock.  In that situation, you don’t tell your Special Teams coach to help you win the game.  The game was won.  You tell him not to f*** it up.  Every Bills fan on the planet wishes that Scott Kristie had kicked it through the end zone.

That person is wrong.  There were 4 TD returns that were kicked short of the end zone.  One was on a squib kick.

No I was not wrong.  There was a 44 yard return, which would have been an on-side kick.  I posted it off Footballdatabase and counted every kick.  All TDs were 98-102.  Bass was kicking them all year when the Bills called for it to the 5-10 yard line (probably not the wind game).  

 

The Bills ranked 3rd in average yards allowed on kickoffs too.  Longest return was 31 yards this year.  I've done the math in other threads.

 

As for Christie, that was a lousy kick that was fielded at the 30 yard line.  A squib should be going to at least the 10-15 yard line and pop up to the 5-10. 

Edited by Billsfan1972
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24 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said:

Did anyone see the replay of this penalty? 

Didn’t see a replay but no reason to think it was a bad call. 
 

I think we’ve invested too much (cap and roster space) in ST only players to have a return on investment that is this poor. 
 

A truly elite gunner doesn’t make this mistake. 

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Just now, pennstate10 said:

Didn’t see a replay but no reason to think it was a bad call. 
 

I think we’ve invested too much (cap and roster space) in ST only players to have a return on investment that is this poor. 
 

A truly elite gunner doesn’t make this mistake. 

I'm not saying it was a bad call. I mean I didn't see it, at all, ever. Lol, so I have no idea if it was a bad call or not. Never showed replay of it. That's happened a bit much I've noticed they don't show replay of some penalties. Frustrating...which is why I asked if anyone saw it in case they did happen to show it and I missed it.

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2 hours ago, Livinginthepast said:

I find it really hard to believe that Bass is just in his own little world on the sideline and for the most important KO of  the season he doesnt think to ask, "what's the plan?" and confirm? and that the ST coach doesn't go to him and make sure he knows. Absolutely no way that happens.  Maybe Bass should explain, rather than it be a mystery.

 

 

Hard to say because maybe he literally in his own world.  Kickers are an odd group and some preference to be left alone in pressure situations. 

 

It does seem inconceivable that that important of a call would not have made it to him.

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3 hours ago, NewEra said:

Bye bye Heath!  

How does Bass not know what the situation is and at least ask someone (Farwell, McD) what's going on? Losing a monumental game like that to a mental breakdown between coaches and players is inexcusable. 

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42 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

In case you haven't noticed, our ST guys don't make league minimum.  We invest a fair amount of roster spots and $$ on dedicated STer.

 

 

Who is Scott Kristie?

The Bills gave up plenty of TD returns when Tasker was on the team including 3 in his last season alone.  Kick return TDs happen.  You know what didn’t happen all season until there were 13 seconds left against the Chiefs?  Of course you do.
 

Scott Kristie is one of the 6 billion people on earth who didn’t the ball through the end zone.  Steve Christie is another one of those people.  He just happens to be the one who did exactly what people in this thread were calling for only to get blocked to the ground while the guy with the ball raced into the end zone.

 

I simply cannot believe that people are faulting the Special Teams who did their jobs correctly when it’s the defense who not only have up 44 yards in 10 seconds but then allowed Mahomes to end the game going 9/9 for 137 yards and 2 TDs.  
 

Personally, I blame Josh Allen.  Gabriel Davis was so wide open in the end zone that Josh could have thrown the ball higher in the air thus burning more time off the clock.  You see, it’s not enough to simply do your job correctly.  You have to get cute and do it in a way that doesn’t put your defense in the impossible position of playing defense for 13 seconds.

Edited by Billl
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4 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

How does Bass not know what the situation is and at least ask someone (Farwell, McD) what's going on? Losing a monumental game like that to a mental breakdown between coaches and players is inexcusable. 

Because it’s not true.  He was clearly told at some point to kick it deep.  Maybe that changed when Hill wasn’t back there and wasn’t communicated properly to him, but there’s no way Bass wasn’t told to kick deep at some point.  

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3 minutes ago, Billl said:

I simply cannot believe that people are faulting the Special Teams who did their jobs correctly when it’s the defense who not only have up 44 yards in 10 seconds but then allowed Mahomes to end the game going 9/9 for 137 yards and 2 TDs. 

 

Since you seem to have missed it, the premise of this thread is that ST did NOT do their job "correctly" (ie execute the play that was actually called) due to communication breakdown in communicating the desired play call to the kicker.

 

Now, whether that's correct or not....Turner speaks very definitively to this, but we don't know his source

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Just now, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Since you seem to have missed it, the premise of this thread is that ST did NOT do their job "correctly" (ie execute the play that was actually called) due to communication breakdown in communicating the desired play call to the kicker.

Yes, and as I said previously, there is precisely 0.0% chance that happened.  The conversation has since expanded slightly over the 7 pages since then and I was responding appropriately.

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2 minutes ago, LABILLBACKER said:

How does Bass not know what the situation is and at least ask someone (Farwell, McD) what's going on? Losing a monumental game like that to a mental breakdown between coaches and players is inexcusable. 

Agree, I mentioned something similar up-thread. In that particular situation I assumed it's one of those things that's obvious to every player and coach. I can't remember last time I saw a game where a team took lead with just a few ticks left on clock and didn't squib kick some sort of way.

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It's simple the coaches job was not to allow KC past the 50 yard with 13 seconds left in the game.  Analytics says you make them return it (as I shouting at the TV and am no coach).

 

When that didn't happen, the defence's job from the KC 25 yard line again is not allow them to advance the ball more then 25 yards in 2 plays.  They failed there too.

 

That is on MCD (the self appointed most prepared coach in the NFL). 

 

Epic Fail!!!!!    

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Just now, Billsfan1972 said:

It's simple the coaches job was not to allow KC past the 50 yard with 13 seconds left in the game.  Analytics says you make them return it (as I shouting at the TV and am no coach).

 

When that didn't happen, the defence's job from the KC 25 yard line again is not allow them to advance the ball more then 25 yards in 2 plays.  They failed there too.

 

That is on MCD (the self appointed most prepared coach in the NFL). 

 

Epic Fail!!!!!    

calm down.

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3 hours ago, Steptide said:

If true, that's legit terrible. The ONE guy who needs to know didn't know 

It's a total coaching failure, and by the way, McDermott could have commented on this without mentioning a single name and throwing no one under the bus.   

 

Reporter: "Sean, what's the deal with the kickoff?  Did you tell Bass to kick it out of the end zone?"

 

McD: "No, the coaching staff called for a different type of kick, not the one that was made.  The kick we got resulted in a breakdown in the chain of communication, and that's as much as I want to say.  Other than to say that ultimately, as HC, I am responsible for that chain of communication and ultimately the error rests on my shoulders."

 

SEE!  NOT HARD SEAN!

 

AND NOW WE ALL KNOW THEY DIDN'T CALL FOR A TOUCHBACK.

 

I don't care where the message failed, if that's what happened! 

 

Just tell me if the coaching staff actually thought the touchback was the right idea!

 

 

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3 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

It's a total coaching failure, and by the way, McDermott could have commented on this without mentioning a single name and throwing no one under the bus.   

 

Reporter: "Sean, what's the deal with the kickoff?  Did you tell Bass to kick it out of the end zone?"

 

McD: "No, the coaching staff called for a different type of kick, not the one that was made.  The kick we got resulted in a breakdown in the chain of communication, and that's as much as I want to say.  Other than to say that ultimately, as HC, I am responsible for that chain of communication and ultimately the error rests on my shoulders."

 

SEE!  NOT HARD SEAN!

 

AND NOW WE ALL KNOW THEY DIDN'T CALL FOR A TOUCHBACK.

 

I don't care where the message failed, if that's what happened! 

 

Just tell me if the coaching staff actually thought the touchback was the right idea!

 

 

 

If he blamed it on the "kick", he is dooming Bass to a lot of harassment and passing responsibility to someone else. 

 

Owning up to it as a failure as a team starting with him is the right call for this not to be a media circus. 

 

It is frustrating to not know but its the right call not to put our business out there and make it a national story "kicker got call wrong".

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