Looks like the call to squib may not have made it to Bass

[Niagara Dude]

10 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Erik Turner states this very definitively, that a Squib was called, the ST unit was in the huddle, and Bass was warming up on the side and didn't get the call.

He says "the fact is...."

 

This is a HUGE scoop if Erik Turner does indeed have inside information to this regard, but journalists like @john wawrow aren't allowed to say stuff like that without 2 confirmed independent sources, so it would be of interest to know how Turner got this info.

 

The statement is at 7 minutes in for those who want to listen to what he says.  Start a bit back at 6:30 or so

 

 

 

I just don't see how other players are not talking to Bass on which side of the field he will be kicking it towards and if there is not a process in place to make sure Bass and special teams captain have had this discussIion that is a failure on the HC.

[Billl]

Some fans will gobble up any BS they’re fed.  There is zero chance this is true.  My God, 

people.

[Niagara Dude]

1 minute ago, Buffalo Boy said:

 

    McD talked about priding himself on preparation.

    How is their not an agreed upon signal from the ST coach, a fail safe for a noisy environment when it’s the most critical juncture of a game? 
    Bass looks at coach and affirms what the call is. I don’t blame this on a second year player out into the biggest situation of his young career. 
    100% on ST and Head coach.

For sure,  there should have been a system/process in place to make sure other players know where the kick is going towards.  Is it going to be a squid,  is it going to be a pop up?  

[SectionC3]

38 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

I find it really hard to believe that Bass is just in his own little world on the sideline and for the most important KO of  the season he doesnt think to ask, "what's the plan?" and confirm? and that the ST coach doesn't go to him and make sure he knows. Absolutely no way that happens.  Maybe Bass should explain, rather than it be a mystery.

Go to the games.  The specialists hang together.  Bass probably was by the propane heater/warming up at the time of the huddle.  ST should have grabbed him on the way out to tell him what to do.  

[TheFunPolice]

Well, something went wrong. On the kick, on the defense. 

 

NO WAY in the world did McD say "let's just let Hill and Kelce catch the ball and run 20 yards then tackle them guys!"

 

There is just no way. He's too good a coach. 

 

Kicking it deep isn't totally crazy, because you trust your D and they have to go 40 yards in 13 seconds. But a squib or a pooch put pressure on KC to decide.. do I try to be a hero and run this thing back, or just go down way back here?

 

We put ZERO pressure on them at any point in those 13 seconds. Everything was easy.

 

Touchback: no pressure

1st and 10: no defenders anywhere in sight and nobody covering their best player. 

2nd play: repeat of the first. 

 

NO WAY that was the plan. 

[Niagara Dude]

2 minutes ago, Billl said:

Some fans will gobble up any BS they’re fed.  There is zero chance this is true.  My God, 

people.

It's 100% cover up job for Sean's choke ,  there is zero chance that Bass & special teams captain do not have discussions prior to kicking off.  This is because the two plays that followed were indefensible and beyond stupid.  We have former players & former GM'S all over questioning what the hell the Bills coaching was doing on those two pass plays.

[frostbitmic]

How much time are you going to take off the clock on a squib kick, one second maybe. The clock doesn't start on a kickoff until the receiving team touches the ball, so if someone falls on it at the 30 it might take a second off the clock.

 

The problem was with the defense called.

[BuffaloRebound]

5 minutes ago, Billl said:

Some fans will gobble up any BS they’re fed.  There is zero chance this is true.  My God, 

people.

Agreed.  This is absurd.  This is like Allen going under center without a play being called.  Bass was definitely told something. More believable thing would be decision was changed after Bass was told to kick it long and the message didn’t get to Bass.  There’s no way Bass was told nothing.  

[Big Turk]

Inexcusable if true.

[Frostbite]

16 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

I find it hard to believe they do not discuss things before kicking off,  are to believe that during the season when Bass did those pop up kick offs that other players did not know. I am sure special teams captain and kicker are talking about which side he will be kicking it,  this non answer Sean offers is another way go covering for his conservative coaching.  Just admit you were worried about a possible second Music city miracle and this is why Bass took 7 yard sunup and blasted it through the end zone. 

I agree the coverage team knew when bass was going to kick short during the season and when he was going to kick it out. But, regardless of what was happening, they had to cover b/c of the chance it's actually shorter than planned or the returner takes it out, which is why it's not as important to convey the kick plan to the coverage team. Bass is really the only person that absolutely needed to know. I think they were worried Hill might be back there and wouldnt be able to stop him, hence the touchback. 

[RyanC883]

then call a TO.  McD should have seen where Bass lined up, or the ST coach, or another player.  

 

 

4 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

How much time are you going to take off the clock on a squib kick, one second maybe. The clock doesn't start on a kickoff until the receiving team touches the ball, so if someone falls on it at the 30 it might take a second off the clock.

 

The problem was with the defense called.

 

both were problems, but agreed, the defensive play calling was even worse, with Kelse abusing Fraziers D, that was defending the sidelines against a team with 3 TO's.  Just laughable.  Bump the WR/TE (that eats clock) and cover everywhere.  Instead, he went into "super prevent".  

[Livinginthepast]

1 minute ago, SectionC3 said:

Go to the games.  The specialists hang together.  Bass probably was by the propane heater/warming up at the time of the huddle.  ST should have grabbed him on the way out to tell him what to do.  

Ive been to many games and you dont have to go to games to see that specialists are off to the side a lot practicing but Bass had just kicked a PAT, the first place he goes is to the sidelines and checks in with the coach about the upcoming KO. He simply ISNT off to the side staring at clouds getting zen at that moment.   Even if that doesnt happen it doesnt change anything about what I said in the post. If Bass doesnt think it necessary to confirm what the KO call is he must be either incredibly stupid or have an almost autistic detachment from reality. If the ST coach doesnt tell Bass what he is supposed to do and assumes he knows then HE must be the same. If McD makes the same mistake then same thing. It just beggars belief that any of it is true.

[Niagara Dude]

1 minute ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Agreed.  This is absurd.  This is like Allen going under center without a play being called.  Bass was definitely told something. More believable thing would be decision was changed after Bass was told to kick it long and the message didn’t get to Bass.  There’s no way Bass was told nothing.  

Coverup,  I would prefer Sean just saying they decided to just kick off and defend from 25.  The problem is,  they crapped the bed on the two following plays and the Chiefs had 3 sec left to kick FG.

 

So had they done some squid or pop up kick than Chiefs don't have time to make that second pass completion. You could have defended the way they did,  give up 19 yard and clock is down to maybe 3-4 secs rather then 8 secs.  That most likely would have meant either a Hail Mary pass or quick out and 60plus yard FG

[BuffaloRebound]

My theory is that the plan was to kick a touchback if Hill was back there or short if he wasn’t.  And the communication to Bass got screwed up in the chaos.  

[Reed83HOF]

30 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Erik Turner states this very definitively, that a Squib was called, the ST unit was in the huddle, and Bass was warming up on the side and didn't get the call.

He says "the fact is...."

 

This is a HUGE scoop if Erik Turner does indeed have inside information to this regard, but journalists like @john wawrow aren't allowed to say stuff like that without 2 confirmed independent sources, so it would be of interest to know how Turner got this info.

 

The statement is at 7 minutes in for those who want to listen to what he says.  Start a bit back at 6:30 or so

 

 

 

Turner has Isiah on the last couple weeks breaking down his plays. I'm not being a fan of, but it does seem like he has some connections within the team...

[TheFunPolice]

In all the mayhem something got messed up. 

 

These coaches are too smart and too good for what we saw to have been the plan. It was a joke. I'm more angry now than I was Sunday just thinking about it and watching it back.

 

It's like being up 3 in basketball and just collapsing your D back to the net and allowing the other team a wide open 3 point shot to tie and not even challenging them, just to avoid the 3+1 if you foul. 

 

Poyer and Hyde? Best safeties in the league? Let's put you guys 40 yards downfield so you can watch the play and have zero chance to win the game for us. 

 

It's so freaking stupid it's incredible. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[st pete gogolak]

With all the discussions about the last 13 seconds, I'm finding out that there are a bunch of NFL rules I didn't have a clue about (being able to fair catch a kickoff, ref can call "intentional" defensive holding and make it a 15 yard penalty with no time run off the clock etc.).  What is the rule if it's kicked short - say to five or ten yard line and kick returner wants to gamble that it goes into the end zone?   It is an automatic touchback with no time left on the clock?  Does the kick returner have to at least cover the ball in the end zone and does a second or two run off the clock?  

[Niagara Dude]

4 minutes ago, Frostbite said:

I agree the coverage team knew when bass was going to kick short during the season and when he was going to kick it out. But, regardless of what was happening, they had to cover b/c of the chance it's actually shorter than planned or the returner takes it out, which is why it's not as important to convey the kick plan to the coverage team. Bass is really the only person that absolutely needed to know. I think they were worried Hill might be back there and wouldnt be able to stop him, hence the touchback. 

Right,  play it safe and defend from the 25.  Problem is they did not defend and made it way to easy for Chiefs to gobble up 44 yards in 10secs

[Billl]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloRebound said:

Agreed.  This is absurd.  This is like Allen going under center without a play being called.  Bass was definitely told something. More believable thing would be decision was changed after Bass was told to kick it long and the message didn’t get to Bass.  There’s no way Bass was told nothing.  

I have no idea why people are so willing to believe that the coaching staff that has taken a moribund franchise and turned it into a perennial Super Bowl contender are a bunch of imbeciles.  Mistakes were made.  You don’t blow a lead with :13 on the clock otherwise, but to think the Special Teams coach is going “gee whiz I didn’t realize that it’s important to tell the Kicker the plan for the kickoff” is just a bizarre coping mechanism.  

[Reed83HOF]

28 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

If there was ever a time to call a second timeout, it was before that kick. I am pretty sure that they didn't cut to an ad after the Bills second TD. 

Without a doubt always need to make sure the right calls are mad and everyone knows what to do.

 

This is what wins in the playoffs and the SB and why as much as I despise bellicheck, he is great at. I have no doubt McD will never let this happen again, it was unfortunately a big gap that was missed by many people...

[Niagara Dude]

10 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

How much time are you going to take off the clock on a squib kick, one second maybe. The clock doesn't start on a kickoff until the receiving team touches the ball, so if someone falls on it at the 30 it might take a second off the clock.

 

The problem was with the defense called.

If were talking about what was the real problem,  no question it was how they were lined up to defend final two passes and that was totally on Sean & Frazier.  They took timeouts and still could not get it right.

[JohnBonhamRocks]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

Bye bye Heath!  

Yeah it’s not like our ST were a source of confidence or stability this year.
 

Had to hold our collective breath most punts - both hoping our punter wasn’t blocked and that our returner wouldn’t muff it.

[SectionC3]

3 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Ive been to many games and you dont have to go to games to see that specialists are off to the side a lot practicing but Bass had just kicked a PAT, the first place he goes is to the sidelines and checks in with the coach about the upcoming KO. He simply ISNT off to the side staring at clouds getting zen at that moment.   Even if that doesnt happen it doesnt change anything about what I said in the post. If Bass doesnt think it necessary to confirm what the KO call is he must be either incredibly stupid or have an almost autistic detachment from reality. If the ST coach doesnt tell Bass what he is supposed to do and assumes he knows then HE must be the same. If McD makes the same mistake then same thing. It just beggars belief that any of it is true.

 

I don’t discount anything you say.  If the call was pooch, it’s simply inexcusable that it wasn’t communicated to Bass.  I totally agree with you, too: in warm weather, Bass runs to the sideline, gets the tee, and huddles.  I’m going to guess he stopped at the heater here because of the cold.  And, if that’s the case, it explains the FUBAR communication.   No matter what happened, it’s inexcusable. 

[ArtVandalay]

1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:

This is based off of a Cover 1 video last night. I haven't had a chance to watch it yet

 

 

 

 

 

 

This isn't possible.  McDermott said they pride themselves on being prepared and detail oriented. 😐

Edited January 26, 2022 by ArtVandalay

[SectionC3]

10 minutes ago, Frostbite said:

I agree the coverage team knew when bass was going to kick short during the season and when he was going to kick it out. But, regardless of what was happening, they had to cover b/c of the chance it's actually shorter than planned or the returner takes it out, which is why it's not as important to convey the kick plan to the coverage team. Bass is really the only person that absolutely needed to know. I think they were worried Hill might be back there and wouldnt be able to stop him, hence the touchback. 

That’s even worse because I believe Pringle returned the kick. 

 

EDIT: was positioned to receive the kick. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by SectionC3

[Niagara Dude]

1 minute ago, Reed83HOF said:

Without a doubt always need to make sure the right calls are mad and everyone knows what to do.

 

This is what wins in the playoffs and the SB and why as much as I despise bellicheck, he is great at. I have no doubt McD will never let this happen again, it was unfortunately a big gap that was missed by many people...

I was thinking about that,  Bill gets totally involved and speaks directly to his players on what he wants.  

[st pete gogolak]

6 minutes ago, Livinginthepast said:

Ive been to many games and you dont have to go to games to see that specialists are off to the side a lot practicing but Bass had just kicked a PAT, the first place he goes is to the sidelines and checks in with the coach about the upcoming KO. He simply ISNT off to the side staring at clouds getting zen at that moment.   Even if that doesnt happen it doesnt change anything about what I said in the post. If Bass doesnt think it necessary to confirm what the KO call is he must be either incredibly stupid or have an almost autistic detachment from reality. If the ST coach doesnt tell Bass what he is supposed to do and assumes he knows then HE must be the same. If McD makes the same mistake then same thing. It just beggars belief that any of it is true.

Then why wouldn't McD just say that the KO was executed as intended?  Clearly Bass' intent was to hammer the ball.  So the only explanation for a "screw up" is if Bass was told to kick short or squib and he doesn't do it?  That seems ridiculous as well.  

[BuffaloRebound]

On a side note, how does Reid not put Hill back there to return that kick?  I think that threw everything off.  You expect Hill so you’re gonna kick it deep through end zone.  He’s inexplicably not back there, so you change it last second and the word doesn’t get to Bass.  And you don’t take timeout because then Reid will smarten up and put Hill back there.  

[Niagara Dude]

1 minute ago, st pete gogolak said:

Then why wouldn't McD just say that the KO was executed as intended?  Clearly Bass' intent was to hammer the ball.  So the only explanation for a "screw up" is if Bass was told to kick short or squib and he doesn't do it?  That seems ridiculous as well.  

Not surprised Bills PR guys are releasing stuff to media guys to cover this debacle up which only makes it worse.  Just come clean and admit the final 3 plays were not good for this franchise.  Learn from it and make sure you spend time to improve so it does not happen again

 

 

[OldBillsFan]

I saw it last night, I think it is in the first 10 or so minutes, they show the clip of the kickoff and halfway through the coverage team is looking around like what just happened?

[TheFunPolice]

Hill returning that kick would be best case scenario. 

 

It increases the chance that he tries to be a hero, running around doing Tyreek things.  Running sideways, juking, twisting and turning. Meanwhile, 7-8 seconds or more burns off the clock. Say he gets all the way to the 40. There's probably time for one hail mary at that point and that's it. 

 

Of course he could break one. But you trust your coverage team there. 

Edited January 26, 2022 by TheFunPolice

[Livinginthepast]

4 minutes ago, st pete gogolak said:

Then why wouldn't McD just say that the KO was executed as intended?  Clearly Bass' intent was to hammer the ball.  So the only explanation for a "screw up" is if Bass was told to kick short or squib and he doesn't do it?  That seems ridiculous as well.  

Thats a great question! Is McD protecting his young kicker? His coaches or his own reputation by not telling the media what happened? Maybe it actually didnt occur to anyone to squib it or pop it up. Maybe it didnt occur to McD that he would be even asked this question after the game? or he could just tell the truth and be done with it. 

[TheFunPolice]

Gotta be more buttoned up than that, because we'll be right back in the playoffs next year and it's going to be time to kick that door down. 

 

Learn from this, have a plan for this next time that makes sense. 

[st pete gogolak]

1 minute ago, Niagara Dude said:

Not surprised Bills PR guys are releasing stuff to media guys to cover this debacle up which only makes it worse.  Just come clean and admit the final 3 plays were not good for this franchise.  Learn from it and make sure you spend time to improve so it does not happen again

 

 

Yeah, agree and I know that it's not their job to satisfy the curiousness of the fanbase but I'm genuinely curious now as to what the hell happened.  Was the intent to kick it deep or was something else called and it wasn't conveyed to Bass or was it conveyed to Bass and Bass screwed up?  To me, it's looking like one in the middle.

[Buffalo Ballin]

Oh no let's not do this, guys. This is conspiracy theory grave yard. What's next? McDermott made a call to get spaghetti and marinara sauce, but ended up egg noodles and ketchup?

[Mango]

1 hour ago, Big Turk said:

I would have rather seen a high pop up kick to the 5...they would have had to run it back and it likely would have taken at least half the time off the clock if not more. Pringle was back there not Hill. Bills have been phenomenal at pinning those kicks inside the 20 all year

 

I have been wondering, with Pringle back deep, was Hill on the field at all? Could Tyreek have been shallow in the event of a squib or short kick?

[Solomon Grundy]

1 hour ago, mannc said:

Yeah, the MCM was just really great execution by the Titans…this was just an epic fail by the Bills on three straight plays…and I’m pretty sure this one cost us a Lombardi Trophy.

Let’s not give Daryl Porter a pass. Had he stayed in his lane, play may not have succeeded 

[Reed83HOF]

19 minutes ago, ArtVandalay said:

This isn't possible.  McDermott said they pride themselves on being prepared and detail oriented. 😐

 

 

[Niagara Dude]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Ballin said:

Oh no let's not do this, guys. This is conspiracy theory grave yard. What's next? McDermott made a call to get spaghetti and marinara sauce, but ended up egg noodles and ketchup?

Unnamed sources to throw Bass under the bus is not cool,  either way even if Bass screwed up which I don't believe it does not exonerate the stupid coaching decisions on two plays that followed.  So unless our players are complete dummies and don't understand English,  you either told them to get up on the line and obstruct any free releases or you didn't.  I would say Frazier & Sean decided it was safer to play 10 -15 yards off the line and still rush 4 guys who have no chance of getting to Mahomes

[Billl]

38 minutes ago, Niagara Dude said:

Coverup,  I would prefer Sean just saying they decided to just kick off and defend from 25.  The problem is,  they crapped the bed on the two following plays and the Chiefs had 3 sec left to kick FG.

 

So had they done some squid or pop up kick than Chiefs don't have time to make that second pass completion. You could have defended the way they did,  give up 19 yard and clock is down to maybe 3-4 secs rather then 8 secs.  That most likely would have meant either a Hail Mary pass or quick out and 60plus yard FG

This is the correct answer.  
 

With :13 seconds left and a 3 point lead, you really just want to avoid a catastrophe.  Here’s what we know to be true…

 

Kansas City has fast players.  Byron Pringle has returned multiple kickoffs for TDs.  Tyreek Hill in the 2 playoff games against the Bills has a 71 yard catch and run on a short pass, a 64 yard TD catch and run on a short pass, and a 45 yard punt return while Mecole Hardman had a 50 yard run and an ankle breaking 26 yard TD run.  These are facts.  
 

So the question the coaches have to ask themselves is who do they want on the field defending those guys?  Do they want it to be a bunch of special teams guys who are fringe roster players, or do they want their starting defense?  It’s 100% reasonable to decide that they want to trust their big money players and that kicking it through the end zone checks the “avoid a catastrophe” box.

 

If they’d squibbed it and an up-man fell on it at the 40, that would have been a disaster.  If they’d pooched it and Hardman, Hill, or Pringle had housed it, that would have been a bigger disaster.  The narrative would have been “just kick it through the end zone instead of trying to burn 2 seconds”.  Instead, people are blaming the special teams for not getting cute and burning 3 seconds off the clock.  Seriously, if your mentality is that the defense can defend for 10 seconds but not 13 seconds then you don’t belong on an NFL sideline.

 

The special teams did their job.  They put the defense on the field with a 99% chance to win.

Edited January 26, 2022 by Billl