Jump to content

Giants/Schoen interview Daboll for HC


Hapless Bills Fan

Recommended Posts

10 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

tossed the kid a bone.  resume building.

 

Daboll is calling the plays.  You know this

 

Resume building.  LOL!

 

The fact that you called him a "nobody assistant coach" tells me all I need to know.  He's been/being groomed to be the next OC.  The Bills actually interviewed him for that position back in 2017 and it's now 3 seasons of learning under Daboll.  You should know this.

 

And nowhere did I ever say he was calling plays.  You made that up.

 

But since this is apparently news to you, who is your choice for the Bills' next OC?  Somebody else on staff?  Someone from another team?  A guy sitting at home?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Doc said:

:

 Daboll gave up/had to give up duties in the passing game.  The most obvious explanation is because the Bills are grooming Dorsey to be the next OC when eventually Daboll leaves.

 

18 hours ago, Doc said:

 

He might have been.  I don't know for sure.  I don't know too many OC's that would want to have duties taken away from them so that's why I added it

 

14 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I never said that pass duties were taken away from Daboll because he was doing a bad job.  I said they were given to Dorsey (who is anything but a "nobody assistant coach" considering he is widely believed to be the next OC for the Bills once Daboll leaves, and it wasn't just a promotion in name only) as an audition.  My question was whether he gave them up willingly or not (not that it matters).

 

2 hours ago, Doc said:

 

 

And nowhere did I ever say he was calling plays.  You made that up.

 

 

 

 

Edited by Mr. WEO
  • Haha (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

So in your mind, "duties" equals "play-calling"?  OK.  I think we have the source of the problem.

 

1 minute ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

he can probably take Beasley and Sanders with him?

 

I doubt either wants to be part of a bad/rebuilding team.  Which is what the Giants would be.

 

1 minute ago, Victory Formation said:

With Schoen to the Giants, it looks like Brian Daboll is 100% going to the Giants. Good for them, I think they made a great choice. I wonder who they’ll pluck from our FO/coaching staff.

 

At best the most he could take is 1 offensive and defensive assistant, to be OC and DC.  All over moves would be lateral.  Hopefully he leaves Chad Hall alone and/or the Bills offer Chad a promotion.

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Doc said:

 

So in your mind, "duties" equals "play-calling"?  OK.  I think we have the source of the problem.

 

 

I doubt either wants to be part of a bad/rebuilding team.  Which is what the Giants would be.

 

 

At best the most he could take is 1 offensive and defensive assistant, to be OC and DC.  All over moves would be lateral.  Hopefully he leaves Chad Hall alone and/or the Bills offer Chad a promotion.

 

 

lol there it is.

 

As opposed to what?  Daboll "may" have been "forced" to give up all the passing "game" duties ......other than calling all the plays in the game?

 

How many times can you twist a pretzel?  doc's about to tell us....

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Doc said:

At best the most he could take is 1 offensive and defensive assistant, to be OC and DC.  All over moves would be lateral.  Hopefully he leaves Chad Hall alone and/or the Bills offer Chad a promotion.

Yes, but loyalty factors in as well. If some of our coaching staff feels more comfortable with Daboll, they’ll go with him. I expect us to get gutted on the offensive side of the ball. Not to mention we will lose multiple people in our front office.

 

I got to admit, I never cared for the Giants before, but I’m a big fan of Brian Daboll and I want him to be successful. He’s a WNY guy and he grew up in the area so I’m hoping he does extremely well in NY. They have picks #5 and #7 RD1 so I’m very excited to see what they do. I bet they sign Trubisky in the offseason as well.

 

God bless them! I hope they kill it in NY. Very excited for them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it’s already likely that Schoen targets some Bills players in free agency and players the Bills like in the draft. I wonder, if you add Daboll to the mix are the odds even higher that they try to siphon talent from Buffalo? I’d say yes.

 

Although I guess if Daboll goes there we’d only have one team targeting our players vs. potentially two if he goes elsewhere.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

lol there it is.

 

As opposed to what?  Daboll "may" have been "forced" to give up all the passing "game" duties ......other than calling all the plays in the game?

 

How many times can you twist a pretzel?  doc's about to tell us....

 

Yes, as usual I twist myself into a pretzel...rod.  You OTOH...

 

Look, it's not my fault if you mistook "duties" to mean "play-calling" (get yourself a new dictionary).  It's also not my fault if you had no idea who Dorsey is ("nobody assistant coach") and history (i.e. having been interviewed for the Bills' OC job in 2017).  But don't compound it with silly lines like "they made him 'passing game coordinator' just to throw him a bone" when it was clearly obvious that after Daboll started getting HC'ing interviews last year and would likely lose him soon, they wanted to groom a replacement and gave him more responsibility. 

 

10 minutes ago, Victory Formation said:

Yes, but loyalty factors in as well. If some of our coaching staff feels more comfortable with Daboll, they’ll go with him. I expect us to get gutted on the offensive side of the ball. Not to mention we will lose multiple people in our front office.

 

I got to admit, I never cared for the Giants before, but I’m a big fan of Brian Daboll and I want him to be successful. He’s a WNY guy and he grew up in the area so I’m hoping he does extremely well in NY. They have picks #5 and #7 RD1 so I’m very excited to see what they do. I bet they sign Trubisky in the offseason as well.

 

God bless them! I hope they kill it in NY. Very excited for them.

 

Depends on to whom they have loyalty.  Guys like Hall (WRs), Bironas (TEs), and Skipper (RBs) were hired before Daboll got there.  Dorsey (QBs/PGC) arrived after but worked with McBeane in Carolina and, as mentioned above, is being groomed to be the next OC.  Johnson (OL) coached with the Bills a decade ago and has no specific ties to Daboll.  Out of that group, Hall might be tapped to be OC.  Hopefully the Bills keep him but the chance to advance will likely be too tempting. 

 

As for assistant position coaches, Tierney (assistant QB coach) came with Daboll from Alabama and could leave, but if Dorsey becomes OC that allows him to be promoted to QB coach and he would probably rather work with Josh than who knows who in Jersey.

 

 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

50 minutes ago, BillsFan4 said:

I think it’s already likely that Schoen targets some Bills players in free agency and players the Bills like in the draft. I wonder, if you add Daboll to the mix are the odds even higher that they try to siphon talent from Buffalo? I’d say yes.

 

Although I guess if Daboll goes there we’d only have one team targeting our players vs. potentially two if he goes elsewhere.

 

The Giants are over the cap by almost $6M right now and don't have a lot of wiggle room and guys like Dexter Lawrence will be looking for big money.  Meaning they won't be able to overpay others to join a rebuilding team. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yes, as usual I twist myself into a pretzel...rod.  You OTOH...

 

Look, it's not my fault if you mistook "duties" to mean "play-calling" (get yourself a new dictionary).  It's also not my fault if you had no idea who Dorsey is ("nobody assistant coach") and history (i.e. having been interviewed for the Bills' OC job in 2017).  But don't compound it with silly lines like "they made him 'passing game coordinator' just to throw him a bone" when it was clearly obvious that after Daboll started getting HC'ing interviews last year and would likely lose him soon, they wanted to groom a replacement and gave him more responsibility. 

 

 

Depends on to whom they have loyalty.  Guys like Hall (WRs), Bironas (TEs), and Skipper (RBs) were hired before Daboll got there.  Dorsey (QBs/PGC) arrived after but worked with McBeane in Carolina and, as mentioned above, is being groomed to be the next OC.  Johnson (OL) coached with the Bills a decade ago and has no specific ties to Daboll.  Out of that group, Hall might be tapped to be OC.  Hopefully the Bills keep him but the chance to advance will likely be too tempting. 

 

As for assistant position coaches, Tierney (assistant QB coach) came with Daboll from Alabama and could leave, but if Dorsey becomes OC that allows him to be promoted to QB coach and he would probably rather work with Josh than who knows who in Jersey.

 

 


list all of the duties that are included in all of the duties of “the passing game” that do not include actually calling the passing plays.   Be encyclopedic. 
 

Dorsey was a college Asst AD in 2018. 
 

They certainly might make him OC.  The Cowboys made a decision like that as well….

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here the thing I worry about is the other assistants it’s one thing to lose Daboll/Frazier but let’s say Daboll gets the HC job. Okay let’s say we promote Dorsey. Daboll can offer Chad Hall our WR coach the OC job, take Shea Tierney as his QB coach and one of the assistants to be his DC. Just cause Daboll goes doesn’t mean that’s the end of the coaching purge 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

list all of the duties that are included in all of the duties of “the passing game” that do not include actually calling the passing plays.   Be encyclopedic. 
 

Dorsey was a college Asst AD in 2018. 
 

They certainly might make him OC.  The Cowboys made a decision like that as well….

 

Hey, if you think the Bills are lying, ask them.  I mean, if you think they "tossed a bone" to a "nobody assistant coach" for no reason at all, and not any other, much less all the other coaches...

 

As for it being a mistake for the Cowboys, the biggest mistake was hiring McCarthy.  It's amazing he hasn't been fired yet.  OTOH Kellen Moore is getting HC'ing interviews.  We'll see what Dorsey has, but in the end, he has Josh.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

29 minutes ago, Doc said:

As for assistant position coaches, Tierney (assistant QB coach) came with Daboll from Alabama and could leave, but if Dorsey becomes OC that allows him to be promoted to QB coach and he would probably rather work with Josh than who knows who in Jersey.

 

 

 

Thinking out loud here but he could take Tierney as his OC.... would be a big jump but if Daboll is going to be a HC who is the offensive play caller then actually the most important criteria for the OC is not "experience calling plays" it is "experience working with Brian Daboll."

 

Of course the Bills could also allow other coaches to interview, they are not obliged to, but they could. As you said earlier Bobby Johnson is the only member of the core offensive staff that post-dates Daboll's arrival. He was as I understand it involved in that hire, maybe he'd want to try and take him? I think OL coach is a particularly important job for a HC who is also going to be the play caller. Generally you want someone else looking after the protection scheme to keep it manageable. It is why Sean Payton hired Saint Doug as his OC. 

14 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:


list all of the duties that are included in all of the duties of “the passing game” that do not include actually calling the passing plays.   Be encyclopedic. 
 

Dorsey was a college Asst AD in 2018. 
 

They certainly might make him OC.  The Cowboys made a decision like that as well….

 

Designing the scheme. But that is obviously Daboll. The reality in my mind is they have involved Dorsey in that sort of stuff much more, wouldn't be surprised if he now sits in on the offensive gameplan meetings with McDermott, Daboll and Josh. But you are right the idea they have taken something "off" Daboll.... stretch IMO. 

  • Like (+1) 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Hey, if you think the Bills are lying, ask them.  I mean, if you think they "tossed a bone" to a "nobody assistant coach" for no reason at all, and not any other, much less all the other coaches...

 

As for it being a mistake for the Cowboys, the biggest mistake was hiring McCarthy.  It's amazing he hasn't been fired yet.  OTOH Kellen Moore is getting HC'ing interviews.  We'll see what Dorsey has, but in the end, he has Josh.

 

 

 

Moore orchestrated that humiliating masterpiece last week.  The Elway is definitely dumb enough to hire him.  Lots of guys get interviews (see Daboll, previously).  

 

What might the Bills be lying about?  Not sure what you mean there.

 

 

Oh, and your post was generally unresponsive.

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Thinking out loud here but he could take Tierney as his OC.... would be a big jump but if Daboll is going to be a HC who is the offensive play caller then actually the most important criteria for the OC is not "experience calling plays" it is "experience working with Brian Daboll."

 

Of course the Bills could also allow other coaches to interview, they are not obliged to, but they could. As you said earlier Bobby Johnson is the only member of the core offensive staff that post-dates Daboll's arrival. He was as I understand it involved in that hire, maybe he'd want to try and take him? I think OL coach is a particularly important job for a HC who is also going to be the play caller. Generally you want someone else looking after the protection scheme to keep it manageable. It is why Sean Payton hired Saint Doug as his OC. 

 

Designing the scheme. But that is obviously Daboll. The reality in my mind is they have involved Dorsey in that sort of stuff much more, wouldn't be surprised if he now sits in on the offensive gameplan meetings with McDermott, Daboll and Josh. But you are right the idea they have taken something "off" Daboll.... stretch IMO. 

 

The idea that anything substantial "might" have been take away from Daboll against his choice is also absurd.  Sure Dorsey is heavily involved---a bunch of the staff is.  But Daboll is in charge of the passing game, the running game and calls the plays.   

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Thinking out loud here but he could take Tierney as his OC.... would be a big jump but if Daboll is going to be a HC who is the offensive play caller then actually the most important criteria for the OC is not "experience calling plays" it is "experience working with Brian Daboll."

 

Of course the Bills could also allow other coaches to interview, they are not obliged to, but they could. As you said earlier Bobby Johnson is the only member of the core offensive staff that post-dates Daboll's arrival. He was as I understand it involved in that hire, maybe he'd want to try and take him? I think OL coach is a particularly important job for a HC who is also going to be the play caller. Generally you want someone else looking after the protection scheme to keep it manageable. It is why Sean Payton hired Saint Doug as his OC. 

 

Designing the scheme. But that is obviously Daboll. The reality in my mind is they have involved Dorsey in that sort of stuff much more, wouldn't be surprised if he now sits in on the offensive gameplan meetings with McDermott, Daboll and Josh. But you are right the idea they have taken something "off" Daboll.... stretch IMO. 

 

True.  And if that means Chad Hall stays, great!  In a similar vein, Dorsey can be OC and QB coach.

 

As for Johnson, again it's a lateral move to a bad team with a bad OL and hamstrung by the cap (although they do have 2-1st rounders).  A lot heavier lifting.  And again, no specific tie to Daboll.

 

As for Dorsey, it would actually be a stretch to call him a "coordinator" if all he's doing is sitting in on meetings.  So we'll agree to disagree.  However I doubt you'll disagree that they're grooming him for the OC job.

 

1 minute ago, Mr. WEO said:

Moore orchestrated that humiliating masterpiece last week.  The Elway is definitely dumb enough to hire him.  Lots of guys get interviews (see Daboll, previously).  

 

What might the Bills be lying about?  Not sure what you mean there.

 

 

Oh, and your post was generally unresponsive.

 

Well then, let me make it easier for you.  I'm here to help!

 

You said that the Bills gave Dorsey a title but that he's still just a QB coach and unworthy of being OC.  So if you think they were lying and haven't given him more responsibility like a "coordinator" would have, ask them what a "passing game coordinator" does. 

 

But again, if you don't like him, offer up alternatives.  Tossing out Kellen Moore is what's truly "unresponsive."  And after seeing the Pack's performance against the same 49'ers defense...

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

True.  And if that means Chad Hall stays, great!  In a similar vein, Dorsey can be OC and QB coach.

 

As for Johnson, again it's a lateral move to a bad team with a bad OL and hamstrung by the cap (although they do have 2-1st rounders).  A lot heavier lifting.  And again, no specific tie to Daboll.

 

As for Dorsey, it would actually be a stretch to call him a "coordinator" if all he's doing is sitting in on meetings.  So we'll agree to disagree.  However I doubt you'll disagree that they're grooming him for the OC job.

 

 

That is what Pete Carmichael basically does in New Orleans. He has been their Offensive Coordinator for over a decade. He doesn't design the scheme. He doesn't call the plays. He doesn't lead on the gameplan. Sure he is in all the meetings and he has input on all that stuff but Sean Payton is the guy who makes the decisions on all of that. I think they have brought Dorsey into the room and I have no doubt he has more input in that stuff than he did last year. But the final call I would be pretty certain remains Daboll's and then ultimately obviously McDermott's. 

 

They are grooming him to takeover. If I was pricing the market for the next Bills OC I'd have Dorsey something like 1/6 as a prohibitive favourite. 

  • Like (+1) 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

True.  And if that means Chad Hall stays, great!  In a similar vein, Dorsey can be OC and QB coach.

 

As for Johnson, again it's a lateral move to a bad team with a bad OL and hamstrung by the cap (although they do have 2-1st rounders).  A lot heavier lifting.  And again, no specific tie to Daboll.

 

As for Dorsey, it would actually be a stretch to call him a "coordinator" if all he's doing is sitting in on meetings.  So we'll agree to disagree.  However I doubt you'll disagree that they're grooming him for the OC job.

 

 

Well then, let me make it easier for you.  I'm here to help!

 

You said that the Bills gave Dorsey a title but that he's still just a QB coach and unworthy of being OC.  So if you think they were lying and haven't given him more responsibility like a "coordinator" would have, ask them what a "passing game coordinator" does. 

 

But again, if you don't like him, offer up alternatives.  Tossing out Kellen Moore is what's truly "unresponsive."  And after seeing the Pack's performance against the same 49'ers defense...

 

 

doc you said over and over they took away Daboll's "passing game" responsibilities, even without his consent (lol), and when asked exactly what does that mean if not play calling----you offer nothing.   You've already conceded to Gunner's "it's obviously Daboll", so I don't know what you're still clinging to here.

 

List all of the passing game duties that have been taken away from Daboll and given to Dorsey.  You brought this up (serially).  

 

I have no idea who they would hire over Dorsey---they might hire him.  But I mentioned what has happened recently when an in house QB coach takes over the Offense.  You know that's why I brought him up. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

That is what Pete Carmichael basically does in New Orleans. He has been their Offensive Coordinator for over a decade. He doesn't design the scheme. He doesn't call the plays. He doesn't lead on the gameplan. Sure he is in all the meetings and he has input on all that stuff but Sean Payton is the guy who makes the decisions on all of that. I think they have brought Dorsey into the room and I have no doubt he has more input in that stuff than he did last year. But the final call I would be pretty certain remains Daboll's and then ultimately obviously McDermott's. 

 

They are grooming him to takeover. If I was pricing the market for the next Bills OC I'd have Dorsey something like 1/6 as a prohibitive favourite. 

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

doc you said over and over they took away Daboll's "passing game" responsibilities, even without his consent (lol), and when asked exactly what does that mean if not play calling----you offer nothing.   You've already conceded to Gunner's "it's obviously Daboll", so I don't know what you're still clinging to here.

 

List all of the passing game duties that have been taken away from Daboll and given to Dorsey.  You brought this up (serially).  

 

I have no idea who they would hire over Dorsey---they might hire him.  But I mentioned what has happened recently when an in house QB coach takes over the Offense.  You know that's why I brought him up. 

 

Look, we can speculate until the cows come home about Dorsey's responsibilities after being given the title of "coordinator."  Again, ask the Bills, because what they've done doesn't necessarily means it's what other teams have done.  I'd like to think that calling him a "coordinator" means more than just sitting in on meetings.  But the bottom line is what GB stated: he was promoted and is being groomed to be the OC.  He's not a "nobody assistant coach."  And how he does remains to be seen.  Kellen Moore means nothing.

 

 

17 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

Can you point me to that post? Tried finding it but must have missed it. Ta. 

 

Kellen Moore.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Look, we can speculate until the cows come home about Dorsey's responsibilities after being given the title of "coordinator."  Again, ask the Bills, because what they've done doesn't necessarily means it's what other teams have done.  I'd like to think that calling him a "coordinator" means more than just sitting in on meetings.  But the bottom line is what GB stated: he was promoted and is being groomed to be the OC.  He's not a "nobody assistant coach."  And how he does remains to be seen.  Kellen Moore means nothing.

 

 

 

Kellen Moore.


so your argument is “I have no idea what I’m trying to say, go ask the bills”. 
 

you should have led with that.

 

Moore is an appropriate comp for obvious reasons.  He was promoted too soon.  Hence my reservation over a guy like Dorsey.

 

Of course it may not matter, Josh may become such a force that, like P Manning,  he can essentially function as OC (anyone remember Tom Moore?).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

5 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

so your argument is “I have no idea what I’m trying to say, go ask the bills”. 
 

you should have led with that.

 

Moore is an appropriate comp for obvious reasons.  He was promoted too soon.  Hence my reservation over a guy like Dorsey.

 

Of course it may not matter, Josh may become such a force that, like P Manning,  he can essentially function as OC (anyone remember Tom Moore?).

 

LOL!  Says the guy who called Dorsey a "nobody assistant coach" when he's probably going to be the next OC of the Bills.

 

So then you shift to talking about Kellen Moore, who has no bearing on anything.  And yeah, the expectation is that Josh become the de facto OC.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

LOL!  Says the guy who called Dorsey a "nobody assistant coach" when he's probably going to be the next OC of the Bills.

 

So then you shift to talking about Kellen Moore, who has no bearing on anything.  And yeah, the expectation is that Josh become the de facto OC.


you claimed that by promoting him to a nonexistent position to groom him,  the Bills took away from Daboll all the duties of the passing game—even, you teased, perhaps against his will (!!).  Duties that are so significant you can’t even guess what they are….but you are sure he has possession of all of them lol. 
 

then you said: of course “all the duties of the passing game” doesn’t include actually passing game play calling!  When asked repeatedly, what does it include you say…ask the Bills.  
 

Dorsey may be the next OC.  I made it clear why I thought that not without risk  Using another young same position coach as a cautionary note.  You understand that.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

you claimed that by promoting him to a nonexistent position to groom him,  the Bills took away from Daboll all the duties of the passing game—even, you teased, perhaps against his will (!!).  Duties that are so significant you can’t even guess what they are….but you are sure he has possession of all of them lol. 
 

then you said: of course “all the duties of the passing game” doesn’t include actually passing game play calling!  When asked repeatedly, what does it include you say…ask the Bills.  
 

Dorsey may be the next OC.  I made it clear why I thought that not without risk  Using another young same position coach as a cautionary note.  You understand that.  

 

True, I don't know what the exact duties of a "passing game coordinator" are.  Neither do you.  For all we know it could be anything from just sitting at the table, to watching game film and designing/selecting the plays to be used during a game.  With, admittedly, Daboll calling them.  You're arguing semantics over "all" versus "some."  The point being they're grooming him to become the next OC

 

If you're looking for assurances, you're not going to get any.  Many OC's never called plays before getting their shot to be an OC.  And going outside the organization to hire some guy who got fired from his last gig because he wasn't good enough calling plays there doesn't assure anything (still waiting on a name, BTW).   Better to keep a good thing going with a guy who knows the team, players and system.

Edited by Doc
Link to comment
Share on other sites

This topic is OLD. A NEW topic should be started unless there is a very specific reason to revive this one.

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
×
×
  • Create New...