*[EDIT]* Multiple reports Browns actively shopping Mayfield pg. 29/30 - Ravens / Browns in QB contract pickle

[Brand J]

3 minutes ago, FormerlyPT5P said:

They're going to eventually have to cap QB contracts right? Like in the NBA your superstar Max player is probably worth 75% of your team money the league would have to have one a team to have parity. So he's capped

 

There's like 10 quarterbacks worth that. It could just be JA with vet minimum OL, WR and defense trying to beat a normally salaried team like the Colts by himself

I was just thinking this same thing. It is inherently unfair for a QB to make so much money. Yes, it’s the most important position in sports, but they are still 1 of 53. I’d like to see percentages incorporated if there aren’t any - QB max percentage is 20% of the cap. DEs are 15%, CBs are 13%, etc. Spread the money a little further and more equitable.

[Saint Doug]

34 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

Agent?

Oh dear, I didn’t realize this. Doubt this is going to go well. 

[Mr. WEO]

When does Lamar "transcend" the playoffs?  1-3 so far.  Flacco, in his first 5 season, Ravens went 9-3.

11 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I was just thinking this same thing. It is inherently unfair for a QB to make so much money. Yes, it’s the most important position in sports, but they are still 1 of 53. I’d like to see percentages incorporated if there aren’t any - QB max percentage is 20% of the cap. DEs are 15%, CBs are 13%, etc. Spread the money a little further and more equitable.

 

No need for this.  Only 3 QB salaries for 2022 are over 20% of teams cap and no one is over 24%.

[Brand J]

7 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

No need for this.  Only 3 QB salaries for 2022 are over 20% of teams cap and no one is over 24%.

That’s true… for now.

[YoloinOhio]

13 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Oh dear, I didn’t realize this. Doubt this is going to go well. 

I heard on radio today they the ravens have only talked to him and not his mom-ager. Not sure how this will work.

[BarleyNY]

8 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

I heard on radio today they the ravens have only talked to him and not his mom-ager. Not sure how this will work.

I heard that due to his mom-ager (fantastic, by the way) situation, most NFL people expected his deal to get done after all of the others and basically be a cut and paste of the other contracts with some minor number changes.

 

Other teams (such as the Bills and Browns) were hoping his deal would get done early and be screwed up.  If he took too little, they’d try to use it as setting the market.  On the off chance he wound up with a great deal, they’d insist on throwing it out.

 

My guess is that the Ravens were not too pleased that Allen’s deal was the only one done.  I’m sure Lamar wanted something close to that.  Too bad the Ravens know better.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

My guess is that the Ravens are not signing him long term. Not yet. He'll play on the 5th year option and get tagged next season if they are still not convinced he's worth a multi year $40+ million dollar contract. I see him getting the Dak Prescott and Kirk Cousins treatment. 

45 minutes ago, JayBaller10 said:

I was just thinking this same thing. It is inherently unfair for a QB to make so much money. Yes, it’s the most important position in sports, but they are still 1 of 53. I’d like to see percentages incorporated if there aren’t any - QB max percentage is 20% of the cap. DEs are 15%, CBs are 13%, etc. Spread the money a little further and more equitable.

 

Nothing needs to be changed. If QB's truly are worth the going rate then teams will pay that rate without hesitation. And QB' would deserve the ridiculous money. When it becomes obvious to GM's and owners that teams are overpaying QB's at the detriment to team success then they will stop paying them so much. 

 

My guess is only a small handful of QB's like 3-5 are truly worth $40+ million annually. Allen is one of those QB's and it is to the benefit of the Bills if 10 other teams think they actually have a QB worth that kind of cap hit.

[Blank Stare]

48 minutes ago, Saint Doug said:

Oh dear, I didn’t realize this. Doubt this is going to go well. 

All good dude! Such an unusual arrangement. I agree though. Im all for him going agent-less for his first deal since it’s basically slotted by draft position. You do it right, that’s a smart move.

Interested to see how it goes with him negotiating the second, big $ deal though. The devil is in the details on these things. Guaranteed money, structure, etc. so important. For his sake, I hope he has at least someone with some experience in his corner looking over his shoulder on this deal. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by TheProcess

[LOVEMESOMEBILLS]

1 hour ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

Lamar is a transcendent athlete at QB I no the NFL.  Not sure there is a price tag you can put on what he means and his worth to the Baltimore Ravens, The NFL, The Baltimore Community, Premier Face of Young Black Athletes, Fellow Players and Opponents.

 

there’s just a “it factor “ with Lamar.  You got opposing players on often do you have opposing players on defense simply running across the field to talk to him to hang out with him pre-and post game it’s incredible.

 

Not sure you see a player get more love or respect from their opponents as Lamar gets from the opposition.

 

Then we haven’t even gotten to the results on the field.

 

No Brainer you pay.  And maybe the football gods let the Ravens stay healthy in 2022.

 

Those 2 things happen then they go right to the top of potential Super Bowl Contenders.

 

To the bolded parts of your response....You should've stopped before bringing up the results on the field. Lamar is one of those QBs that plays pretty well during the regular season, sometomes great, but struggles mightily in the playoffs. To date he's gone 1-3 in the 4 playoff games he's started in and his team struggles to score in the postseason averaging 13 points per game.

 

 His stats during the postseason: 76/136  55.8 Comp%  900 Yards 6.1 YPA  225.0 YPG  3 TDs  5 INTs  with a QB Rating of 68.26. He also takes alot of sacks for being the most mobile QB in the league, in 4 games he's been sacked 19 times. He's a good runner so I'll add those stats as well: 54/367/1 averaging 6.8 YPC and 91.75 YPG. All that to really show he doesn't put points on the board in the postseason and he's accounted for 4 total TDs in 4 games.

 

 So in your opinion you think Lamar should make about what Josh makes? Josh had more TDs(5) and his team scored almost as many points(47) against the Pats*** this year in the playoffs as Lamar(4) and the Ravens(52) have in their 4 games combined. Josh now has 16 total TDs in 6 postseason games(2.6 per game) 14 passing, 1 Rushing, 1 Receiving & only 1 INT. He has the highest career QB Rating in the playoffs ever, the most Passing TDs through the first 2 rounds(9) and is the only QB to post back to back games with at least 4 TDs and 0 INTs. The Bills average 28.6 points a game with Josh at QB in the postseason. He's performed far better than Lamar when it matters the most and most would agree that on average during their 4 year careers the Ravens had more talent on their team.

 

 To the other bolded part....The Ravens don't go to the top of the potential Suoer Bowl contenders until he starts bringing his game to another level come playoff time, not shrinking AND the team proves it can put points on the board and win some games come postseason. If I'm the Ravens there's no way I could look at the 2 QBs and then think I'm going to pay him Josh Allen type money. I'd rather trade him for a bunch of picks and start over at QB.

 

  

[Hapless Bills Fan]

25 minutes ago, TheProcess said:

All good dude! Such an unusual arrangement. I agree though. Im all for him going agent-less for his first deal since it’s basically slotted by draft position. You do it right, that’s a smart move.

Interested to see how it goes with him negotiating the second, big $ deal though. The devil is in the details on these things. Guaranteed money, structure, etc. so important. For his sake, I hope he has at least someone with some experience in his corner looking over his shoulder on this deal. 

 

I'll be danged, I looked it up in Spotrac and it does still say "self-repped"

 

I'm sure he hires a good lawyer.

[No_Matter_What]

2 hours ago, YoloinOhio said:

 

What kind of source is this? It just seems like a random info out of nowhere. Are they working on a deal? Are they getting closer? Is this what he wants?

[billsfan89]

1 hour ago, JayBaller10 said:

I was just thinking this same thing. It is inherently unfair for a QB to make so much money. Yes, it’s the most important position in sports, but they are still 1 of 53. I’d like to see percentages incorporated if there aren’t any - QB max percentage is 20% of the cap. DEs are 15%, CBs are 13%, etc. Spread the money a little further and more equitable.

I don’t think there will be a QB max as it would be an unfair advantage for teams with elite QB’s. But will there be some sort of market correction at some point? There might have to be.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

11 minutes ago, No_Matter_What said:

What kind of source is this? It just seems like a random info out of nowhere. Are they working on a deal? Are they getting closer? Is this what he wants?

 

That actually is a fair ask.  It was reported last summer that Jacson was looking at $42M/yr.

https://www.si.com/nfl/ravens/nfl/ravens/news/jackson-new-salary

After Josh's contract, Bucky Brooks said that Lamar's would use Josh Allen's as a floor

 

That was Then.

 

The Ravens GM says "not so fast":

https://theathletic.com/3112753/2022/02/04/ravens-gm-eric-decostas-news-conference-5-takeaways-including-the-status-of-lamar-jacksons-contract/?source=spotrac&pc=spotrac40off2&redirected=1

Quote

When DeCosta last addressed Jackson’s contract situation, he seemed confident that it would be addressed in a timely and efficient manner. If you listened to both DeCosta and head coach John Harbaugh discussing the subject last offseason, you’d think a deal was a formality — a matter of if, not when.

DeCosta insisted Friday that nothing had changed even after a season in which Jackson hit a rough patch and got hurt, missing five full games and three-quarters of another. However, DeCosta did call the negotiations “unusual” because Jackson doesn’t have an agent, and he acknowledged that the Ravens would be OK if the quarterback played the season on his fifth-year option. At the very least, DeCosta was more tempered in talking about the topic.

 

Quote

DeCosta went on to say that the Ravens have other things they also need to focus on. There was no mention of prioritizing Jackson’s deal, of it being a front-burner issue or of the organization working tirelessly to get it done. The Ravens appear to be taking the stance that they are ready and willing, but that it’s largely up to Jackson to accelerate the talks.

It never seemed likely that Jackson would play the season under his $23 million fifth-year option, but the closer we get to training camp in late July, it’s becoming more and more conceivable. And Jackson’s midseason slump and late-season injuries at least spur questions about whether it could be beneficial for the Ravens to wait.

 

Quote

As far as the fifth-year option, listen, we have cap room. We have the ability to take on that amount. Based on who Lamar is and what he has to offer, that’s not a huge ticket for a quarterback with that ability and that personality and what he brings to the table.”

 

So it sounds like the GM and the organization are perfectly willing to have Lamar play out his contract at this point - or at least taking that posture.  That usually seems to happen when the two sides are too far apart on perceived "fair value"

 

 

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, NewEra said:

I could see him getting that much but maybe with the possibility of the ravens getting out of the contract after 2, but more likely 3, years,  

 

 

Agreed.  Any deal like this the Ravens have to put some sort of out I'd say at around the 3rd maybe the 5th year - Jackson won't let it be less then 3 or 4 I can't see that.  

 

 

 

After this last season what would Allen be making?

 

I happen to think it helped him to have it done going in - after 3 or 4 games the pressure of the deal has receded.  And you aren't going in to last month of the season - and Bills in must win mode with an Allen contract situation looming.  

 

Was good to not have to think or talk about any of that.   

Edited February 5, 2022 by Big Blitz

[RalphWilson'sNewWar]

28 minutes ago, LOVEMESOMEBILLS said:

 

To the bolded parts of your response....You should've stopped before bringing up the results on the field. Lamar is one of those QBs that plays pretty well during the regular season, sometomes great, but struggles mightily in the playoffs. To date he's gone 1-3 in the 4 playoff games he's started in and his team struggles to score in the postseason averaging 13 points per game.

 

 His stats during the postseason: 76/136  55.8 Comp%  900 Yards 6.1 YPA  225.0 YPG  3 TDs  5 INTs  with a QB Rating of 68.26. He also takes alot of sacks for being the most mobile QB in the league, in 4 games he's been sacked 19 times. He's a good runner so I'll add those stats as well: 54/367/1 averaging 6.8 YPC and 91.75 YPG. All that to really show he doesn't put points on the board in the postseason and he's accounted for 4 total TDs in 4 games.

 

 So in your opinion you think Lamar should make about what Josh makes? Josh had more TDs(5) and his team scored almost as many points(47) against the Pats*** this year in the playoffs as Lamar(4) and the Ravens(52) have in their 4 games combined. Josh now has 16 total TDs in 6 postseason games(2.6 per game) 14 passing, 1 Rushing, 1 Receiving & only 1 INT. He has the highest career QB Rating in the playoffs ever, the most Passing TDs through the first 2 rounds(9) and is the only QB to post back to back games with at least 4 TDs and 0 INTs. The Bills average 28.6 points a game with Josh at QB in the postseason. He's performed far better than Lamar when it matters the most and most would agree that on average during their 4 year careers the Ravens had more talent on their team.

 

 To the other bolded part....The Ravens don't go to the top of the potential Suoer Bowl contenders until he starts bringing his game to another level come playoff time, not shrinking AND the team proves it can put points on the board and win some games come postseason. If I'm the Ravens there's no way I could look at the 2 QBs and then think I'm going to pay him Josh Allen type money. I'd rather trade him for a bunch of picks and start over at QB.

 

  

 

I would definitely pay Lamar in the ballpark of Allen.

 

I can’t just decide a player‘s contract based on the playoffs I have to factor in the entire picture.

 

If that was the case then I’m paying Josh Allen $258 Million to to be a .500 quarterback in the playoffs.

 

Its more than just playoff performance.  It’s for the whole package both on and off the field.

 

Its for the League MVP…it’s for the dynamic plays … it’s for the 41-17 Overall Record…it’s for the moments when Lamar makes the call on 4th down to go for it and beat Mahomes.

 

And it’s for the projection of what He will develop into and the team will be when healthy.

[Bimmer323i]

On 1/4/2022 at 6:31 AM, Inigo Montoya said:

When Beane extended Josh last year it was the expectation that Jackson and Mayfield would also get an extension done before the start of the regular season.  That never happened and now those two franchises find themselves with a bit of a dilemma.

 

Despite being voted to the Pro Bowl again (and Jackson's team will beat that drum despite the fact he clearly doesn't deserve it), Jackson has had a down year in almost every category and has not been available due to injury for part of the second half of the season.  He hasn't played well enough to get a contract that is more lucrative than Allen's, but that is what they are going to be asking for and it will be tough for the Ravens as an organization to pay him less.

 

Baker has had a terrible season and is also down in almost every meaningful statistical category despite being on a team loaded with talent and behind one of the best O-Lines in the NFL.  No NFL QB has had more interceptions than Baker has in the last four years. He has evolved into a serviceable game managing QB.  In fairness, he has dealt with a non-throwing shoulder injury that muddies the water this year a bit.

 

Here are how the 3 QBs line up statistically this year through Week 17;

 

Josh Allen 2021 

Games Played; 16

Completions;  385

Passing Yards;  4,168

Comp %;  64.1

Passing TD's;  34

INT's;  15

Rushing Yards; 700

Average Per Rush;  6 yards

Rushing TD's;  6

Rushing 1st Downs;  51

 

Lamar Jackson 2021   -  Pro Bowl 

Games Played; 13 full games (knocked out early in game 14)

Completions;  246

Passing Yards;  2,882

Comp %;  64.4

Passing TD's;  16

INT's;  13

Rushing Yards;  767

Average Per Rush;  5.8 yards

Rushing TD's;  2

Rushing 1st Downs;  48

 

Baker Mayfield 2021

Games Played;  15

Completions;  237

Passing Yards;  2,825

Comp %;  62.4

Passing TD's;  15

INT's;  11

Rushing Yards;  118

Average Per Rush;  3.4 yards

Rushing TD's;  1

Rushing 1st Downs;  10

 

Looking at those stats and watching the arc of their careers, while Josh isn't putting up numbers as spectacular as last year, I think he has proven that the 2020 season was not an anomaly.  He is one of the top five QBs in the NFL by any measuring stick.  Lamar and Baker on the other hand have had a year of inconsistency where they have played worse than last year and both teams are unlikely to make the playoffs. 

 

The fact that neither franchise locked down Lamar and Baker before this season means that the organizations harbor some doubt about them and wasn't willing to commit long term no matter what they say publicly.  They kicked the can down the road a year and the question is now what do they do with the 2021 season in the bag?

 

1.)  Do they make them play out their 5th year options and see how they do before coming to the table? 

2.)  Do they play hardball and negotiate a contract less than what Allen got even though the cap is about to explode?

3.)  Do they go after a free agent QB and move on? 

4.)  Do they give them a contract on par or better than Allen's because the other options are unpalatable for various reasons?

5.)  Do they draft a QB and start over (slim pickings this year, especially at their likely draft spot)?

 

I think Lamar clearly has a stronger hand to play than Baker.   Both franchises are in a corner here.  The best thing for the Bills is for both franchises to overpay for their QB.  It's going to be one of the best storylines of the off season this year.  I've got my popcorn ready. 

 

I'm so glad the Bills aren't in that boat.

 

 

But but Nick Wright and Jeff Saturday said last year Baker is better than Allen🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣oh and some other idiot I can’t remember his name said he would take Jackson over Allen…. 

[Scott7975]

36 minutes ago, RalphWilson'sNewWar said:

 

I would definitely pay Lamar in the ballpark of Allen.

 

I can’t just decide a player‘s contract based on the playoffs I have to factor in the entire picture.

 

If that was the case then I’m paying Josh Allen $258 Million to to be a .500 quarterback in the playoffs.

 

Its more than just playoff performance.  It’s for the whole package both on and off the field.

 

Its for the League MVP…it’s for the dynamic plays … it’s for the 41-17 Overall Record…it’s for the moments when Lamar makes the call on 4th down to go for it and beat Mahomes.

 

And it’s for the projection of what He will develop into and the team will be when healthy.

 

They would be fools to pay Lamar in the ballpark of Allen.  A great athlete.  Not so great QB.  I don't care what the win/loss record is.  More teams are getting better.  More teams have figured out how to defend that offense.  That record is going to deteriorate.  Lamar has not gotten better in the QB department.

[K-9]

1 hour ago, billsfan89 said:

I don’t think there will be a QB max as it would be an unfair advantage for teams with elite QB’s. But will there be some sort of market correction at some point? There might have to be.

A market correction? Has there ever been a market correction for salaries in the NFL?

[BigAl2526]

I agree that Lamar Jackson is in a better place than Mayfield.  He made the pro bowl for one thing, though I have no idea how he could have, comparing his stats with Josh Allen's.  The main reason is that the Ravens went all in with Lamar Jackson's skill set when they hired Greg Roman as their OC, and built the team around Jackson's skill set.  If the Ravens move on from Jackson, it means a considerable rebuild as there just aren't that many elite QBs with a skill set that's compatible with Jackson and the offense Roman has designed.  As long as John Harbaugh thinks there is a possibility of winning with Jackson, I think the Ravens will try to hold on to him.

Edited February 7, 2022 by BigAl2526

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, JayBaller10 said:

That’s true… for now.

 

We are talking about QB salaries being too high/out of control, but they really aren't--especially with a steadily growing cap.  

 

Limiting it to 20% of the cap will always affect very few QBs and won't significantly alter these 40-50 million/yr contracts going forward.