Bills @ Bucs talk

[Brianmoorman4jesus]

2 hours ago, Rick 'r Mortis said:

I was talking to a buddy last night who is an NFL guru. According to him, the Bill's oline is not that bad, the Bills need to settle on just one RB, the defense is legit.

 

He says Bills win.

 

 

I have been thinking that more and more lately. Not about the Bills winning, they are going to get destroyed tomorrow but I don’t think the running game issue is the Oline. I actually think it’s mostly Daboll not scheming up the run plays with any effort or success. Zack Moss being way to slow and this asinine need to constantly change out the RB with a pointless rotation. I think if you had a guy that cared enough to call proper run plays with design to actually succeed, Singletary and maybe even Antonio Williams could get off. But you’d have to actually allow one to play 85% of the snaps. Get into the flow. Unfortunately none of that will happen and we will keep doing the same ***** and blaming the Oline. It’s funny I bet anything with the same exact Oline and a new OC that runs legitimate NFL run scheme concepts and NOT Moss…this team would be a better then average Running team day 1. I’m starting to really hate Daboll.

[Ray Stonada]

I just pray the Bills don't start thinking programmatically under some diktat from McD, like they HAVE to run at least X percentage of the time.

 

The Bills, like all offenses, need to run plays that the defense is not expecting: to show run, but pass. Or show pass, but run. That's why we are more successful operating under center, because it threatens both options. Way too many plays this year have been obvious passes. It's arrogant and unnecessary.

 

However, our backs have poor field vision, so running plays need clear lanes. When I rewatch Bills games this season, I see Singletary and Moss getting good gains when the hole is immediately in front of them. The minute the hole requires bouncing it to the outside, or a cut back, they never make the play and are tackled at the line. 

 

When running with the backs, I wish we would run more counters and other plays designed to open a hole. Our linemen are not road graders but they are mobile and can run counters and pulling pays well. We scored a nice TD running Josh on a counter on our first drive against KC. A few nice gains on those and they can go play action and should have easy pickings for Josh. 

[Mat68]

Good weather, spread em out and fire the pigskin around the yard. 

[Steptide]

I always get so amped up when it gets close to game day. I'm excited to watch this game, but unfortunately I see this as a loss. Man it'd make my whole week if we win this game 

[Dr. Who]

3 hours ago, Rick 'r Mortis said:

I was talking to a buddy last night who is an NFL guru. According to him, the Bill's oline is not that bad, the Bills need to settle on just one RB, the defense is legit.

 

He says Bills win.

 

 

Yikes, I don't really like any of our rbs (if we have to settle, I think the answer is NOT Moss) and I can't believe the oline isn't bad, though I'm not a guru so I must not know what I'm looking at.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Brianmoorman4jesus said:

I have been thinking that more and more lately. Not about the Bills winning, they are going to get destroyed tomorrow but I don’t think the running game issue is the Oline. I actually think it’s mostly Daboll not scheming up the run plays with any effort or success. Zack Moss being way to slow and this asinine need to constantly change out the RB with a pointless rotation. I think if you had a guy that cared enough to call proper run plays with design to actually succeed, Singletary and maybe even Antonio Williams could get off. But you’d have to actually allow one to play 85% of the snaps. Get into the flow. Unfortunately none of that will happen and we will keep doing the same ***** and blaming the Oline. It’s funny I bet anything with the same exact Oline and a new OC that runs legitimate NFL run scheme concepts and NOT Moss…this team would be a better then average Running team day 1. I’m starting to really hate Daboll.

 

I think there's something to the idea that when it comes to run plays, Daboll has a "low interest rate" and his blocking schemes and plays tend to be overly complex.

 

You might notice that a number of teams with a strong run game but no "dominant" or star back share carries.  For example, the Pats**** split carries between Damien Harris (164) and Rhamondre Stevenson (100).  The Ravens don't have their top guys, but they split carries between Devonte Freeman (89) and Latavius Murray (79).  Last season they split between Gus Edwards (144) and Dobbins (134).

 

I don't see how anyone can watch play breakdowns and not place some blame on the Oline.  Go to Youtube and watch the Cover1 stuff, or Erik Turner's twitter. 

 

It's possible that with the same OL, we would run better under a different OC, but I don't think it has to do with "legitimate run scheme concepts".  I think it has to do with primacy given to the pass game in practice (so that we're not as proficient in run blocking)  and with "tells" in formation and tendency that give the defense a big heads-up that we're running. 

 

I think it's equally possible that if you sent Moss to NE or Tennessee or the Colts, we would discover to our surprise that he's a solid back.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Ray Stonada said:

I just pray the Bills don't start thinking programmatically under some diktat from McD, like they HAVE to run at least X percentage of the time.

 

I don't think that's 1) McDermott's style 2) McDermott's point about the run game.  I think his point is just that we have to run enough, and well enough, that defenses respect the possibility of the run and defend it, lest they be gashed.  Starting with Pittsburgh, teams have said "you're a spread offense, you're not gonna run, and when you do run we can see it coming, so we're not gonna pretend to defend the run when we don't need to"

 

And this:

 

1 hour ago, Ray Stonada said:

The Bills, like all offenses, need to run plays that the defense is not expecting: to show run, but pass. Or show pass, but run. That's why we are more successful operating under center, because it threatens both options. Way too many plays this year have been obvious passes. It's arrogant and unnecessary.

 

I think McDermott, as a former DC, would 100% agree with you, and I think that's his point.

 

1 hour ago, Ray Stonada said:

However, our backs have poor field vision, so running plays need clear lanes. When I rewatch Bills games this season, I see Singletary and Moss getting good gains when the hole is immediately in front of them. The minute the hole requires bouncing it to the outside, or a cut back, they never make the play and are tackled at the line. 

 

So, there's two reasons for this.  One is that the holes they get from our OL are small and transient.  Our OL can't hold a block long enough for these plays to develop.  Two is, with their relative lack of speed, if they have to make any moves, the hole is closed before they get there.  A speedier back like Breida can get there; a stronger OL could hold their blocks long enough for Singletary to get there.   (I will say, Moss seems very slow at cuts, but he may still be rehabbing his ankle)

 

 

1 hour ago, Ray Stonada said:

When running with the backs, I wish we would run more counters and other plays designed to open a hole. Our linemen are not road graders but they are mobile and can run counters and pulling pays well. We scored a nice TD running Josh on a counter on our first drive against KC. A few nice gains on those and they can go play action and should have easy pickings for Josh. 

 

I'm not sure of the details why we moved from gap to zone runs.  I'm sure there's a football reason having to do with how we want to operate in the passing game we want to employ, but the fact is the demise of our run game seems to me to correspond to moving away from the pin-and-pull blocking we did pretty well with essentially the same cast of OL characters in 2019.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Dig up the Saints film. What have they been doing? They've beaten them 3 out of the last 4 and I think turnovers were the only thing that cost them the one L in the playoffs last year.

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

11 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

Even the National media has completely trashed this team since the loss to NE.  If you don't see that were are not a good team right now then I don't know what to tell you.  This teams coaches all drank from the same Kool-aide when the season began that we were going to the superbowl even before we played our very first game.

 

 

 

 

The national media thinks NE is the best team in the league right now and we lost a tight game. In part because the wind conditions wouldn't allow us to make 40 yard FG's.

 

This team can't be that bad if they barely loss to the team everyone is saying is the best in the league.

[NewEra]

11 hours ago, Toyo321 said:

It's no different when you bet on a team in Vegas.  You bet on that teams reputation and their record before the game is played.  Not their record that is predicted X amount of games later,  or in the future

 

The fact is this team has not beaten a team that had a winning record at the time the actual game was played.

 

Is this to much to comprehend instead of making excuses that the Swami was not available before the game was played to foresee that the opponent was going to have a winning record,  in the next X amount games from the day they played the actual game. 

 

I guess we will all have to listen to analytics now on how to determine if a team is a winning team or a losing team, but wait that does not really count because they have yet to play their next 10 games yet, so their current record actually does not apply.   Please.....

 

And I have posted numerous times before and after the loss to NE, when they spanked this teams ass on national tv at home.

 

Why because my best friend is a NE fan....  I hate dealing with his texts when our team plays like complete crap on Monday night.

 

Even the National media has completely trashed this team since the loss to NE.  If you don't see that were are not a good team right now then I don't know what to tell you.  This teams coaches all drank from the same Kool-aide when the season began that we were going to the superbowl even before we played our very first game.

 

Also we have zero chance against TB this week.  The only way we win is if Brady gets placed on the Covid 19 list before the game starts. 

 

Come back to this thread after this weekends game.  Its going to 45 - 17 TB.

 

 

Who IS a good team right now?  New England?  The team that only beat us because we made more stupid mistakes than they did?  If they are the best team in the afc and they barely beat us in a weather dominated game, how does that make us “not good”?

 

 It was a super close game……why do you use the word spanked?  They had 11 more yards.  They had 8 less first downs (80% less than we did).  Their FG kicker was better (when in actuality, they are both pretty much equal) and they didn’t fumble while in scoring position (probably because they were only in the red zone 1 time).  
 

You’re overreacting.  Big time.  We are all disappointed in the the season we’ve had, but don’t make it more than it is. 

[Bangarang]

4 hours ago, Rick 'r Mortis said:

I was talking to a buddy last night who is an NFL guru. According to him, the Bill's oline is not that bad, the Bills need to settle on just one RB, the defense is legit.

 

He says Bills win.

 

 

Sounds like he is qualified to host a show on ESPN with the other gurus who don’t know what they’re talking about.

[Nextmanup]

41 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

 

The national media thinks NE is the best team in the league right now and we lost a tight game. In part because the wind conditions wouldn't allow us to make 40 yard FG's.

 

This team can't be that bad if they barely loss to the team everyone is saying is the best in the league.

I don't think everyone is saying NE is the best team in the league...but I do think the Bills are better than them! 

The rematch in Foxboro, given reasonably normal weather, should be epic.

 

If it's s snowstorm or blizzard or crazy wind, forget it.

 

 

14 hours ago, reddogblitz said:

 

I'm not so sure about this. One thing I do know is to not put much pressure on Tommy and try to cover everyone is sure fire recipe for a loss.

 

I'd prefer to see jamming his guys at the line to throw off his timing along with some disguised corner or line backers or safety blitzes.  If you can put pressure on him (easier said than done Admittedly) he melts.

You just have to concede Tampa's 30+ points and count on scoring more if you want to win this game.

 

If we aren't scoring in the 30s or higher, we lose.

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

Just now, Nextmanup said:

I don't think everyone is saying NE is the best team in the league...but I do think the Bills are better than them! 

The rematch in Foxboro, given reasonably normal weather, should be epic.

 

If it's s snowstorm or blizzard or crazy wind, forget it.

 

 

 

At least twice last week prior to the Monday night game I said my expectations for the season series with the Pats was each team getting a road victory. So I am certainly not concerned. It is playing out so far as I expected. 

[RichRiderBills]

9 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:

I’m kinda with you on this one…like Miami is hovering around .500 because we beat them twice…also kc is playing about the same (good) their schedule just kind of evened out…one of these days we’re gonna make the one play we need against a good team hopefully it’s this weekend 

 

Yes I agree too. We have lost close games to good teams. Beat good teams as well.

 

This notion we should "revaluate expectations" is silly.

 

We need to keep trying. This is still a good football team. 

 

 

[Sammy Watkins' Rib]

8 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

You just have to concede Tampa's 30+ points and count on scoring more if you want to win this game.

 

If we aren't scoring in the 30s or higher, we lose.

 

 

I'd love to see a bend but don't break defense show up on Sunday. Hold them to under 25.

[NewEra]

10 minutes ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:

 

I'd love to see a bend but don't break defense show up on Sunday. Hold them to under 25.

We just need to force turnovers.  That has been the key to our defenses success this year.  We need a the turnovers on Sunday.  Brady had thrown a pick in 5 straight games.  Time to make it 6

[Hapless Bills Fan]

Joe B. thinks too much is being made of McDermott's comments about "being a physical offense and controlling the line of scrimmage" = "he wants us to 'ground and pound' ":

https://theathletic.com/3009858/2021/12/10/what-you-should-really-make-of-the-bills-offensive-identity-comments-this-week-5-thoughts-and-a-prediction/?source=emp_shared_article&redirected=1

 

Quote

One area that received a ton of focus was the overall identity of the Bills offense. It’s fair to wonder what’s next. Some comments from coach Sean McDermott after the game and a failure to directly answer if he felt offensive coordinator Brian Daboll was doing a good enough job added fuel to the fire. A day after the game, McDermott said he felt he and Daboll are aligned in their beliefs. Daboll then said, “We want to be a physical offense and control the line of scrimmage.” It’s hard to read those comments and not come away with the conclusion that the Bills want to run the ball more, which led to a lot of frustration this week.

 

Quote

However, I don’t think the principles that Daboll expressed necessarily go hand in hand with running the ball. The threat to run has always been a priority. If anything, the comments about physicality and establishing the line of scrimmage likely center on the offensive line needing to be much more effective and impactful than it has been. It’s been a rough go for the offensive line this season. Every time it has put out one fire, another two or three pop up. Despite those struggles, the majority of the starting five are better in pass-blocking situations than they are in the run game.

 

Quote

The coaching staff hasn’t lost its head overnight after one loss, or a string of inconsistent losses. This is a smart group, fully aware of the offense’s strength. After all, McDermott acknowledged after the loss to the Patriots that it would be pretty difficult to fix the running game this late in the season. Josh Allen said they need to get back to what they’re best at, and it doesn’t take much to figure out what that is. The Bills know that to accomplish their goals, the offense needs to go through Allen and the passing game while keeping defenses off balance with unpredictable play calling. And I think we’ll see a return to those principles this week, regardless of the noise.

 

[YoloinOhio]

Been MIA, had a death in the family. Not even sure what’s happened this week. Other than it’s Brady tomorrow. Go Bills. 
 

[BuffaloBillyG]

2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:

Been MIA, had a death in the family. Not even sure what’s happened this week. Other than it’s Brady tomorrow. Go Bills. 
 

Sorry for your loss,Yolo. Wishing the best for you and your family.

 

That said, welcome back. Go Bills.

[YoloinOhio]