Italian Bills Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) Every time i watch a Bills game, i think this: if i was the HC i would say to my offensive players to play always thinking they have four attempts and not three to get the first down, when they are in opponent’s territory. I know that lately, always more frequently, we see teams go for it on fourth and one… but i’m talking about having always the mindset to have four attempts and not three to gain the ten yards. I think it could be mentally different play like this.. it would help to know that you have to get less than three yards per attempt on every down to get the first down. What you think ? Edited December 2, 2021 by Italian Bills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) I think it’s stupid if you need 3 points to tie and go for it on 4th and 1 at the goal line and get stuffed Edit it’s nice to see someone got the sarcasm Edited December 2, 2021 by SlimShady'sSpaceForce 1 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 (edited) Kevin Kelley pretty much never punts, always goes for it on 4th down and won 9 Arkansas State Championships in 18 years. He also frequently onside kicks too. https://www.si.com/college/2021/05/21/kevin-kelley-high-school-never-punts-presbyterian Edited December 2, 2021 by Alphadawg7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 23 minutes ago, Italian Bills said: Every time i watch a Bills game, i think this: if i was the HC i would say to my offensive players to play always thinking they have four attempts and not three to get the first down, when they are in opponent’s territory. I know that lately, always more frequently, we see teams go for it on fourth and one… but i’m talking about having always the mindset to have four attempts and not three to gain the ten yards. I think it could be mentally different play like this.. it would help to know that you have to get less than three yards per attempt on every down to get the first down. What you think ? I think you would be unemployed at the NFL level. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 How is 3 yards per attempt so much better than 3.3? Mind games. I think you're overthinking it. On a related note, the trend of going for it simply because "analytics says so" is beginning to annoy me. Some coaches want to go for it regardless of how their team is performing. If you're team is struggling into FG range and losing the battle in the trenches, then kick the FG. Take the points. If your team just cruised into FG range on an easy drive and is winning the trenches, then go for it. Ride the momentum. 11 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Kevin Kelley pretty much never punts, always goes for it on 4th down and won 9 Arkansas State Championships in 18 years. He also frequently onside kicks too. https://www.si.com/college/2021/05/21/kevin-kelley-high-school-never-punts-presbyterian High school football? 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: I think it’s stupid if you need 3 points to tie and go for it on 4th and 1 at the goal line and get stuffed Really? Because going for it is the right call. Simple math shows that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 18 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: I think it’s stupid if you need 3 points to tie and go for it on 4th and 1 at the goal line and get stuffed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbitmic Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 6 minutes ago, mattynh said: Really? Because going for it is the right call. Simple math shows that. Especially when your opponent has scored on 6 straight drives. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBillyG Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 Just now, LeGOATski said: Worked out well for him. All those Super Bowls he won. Why wouldn't we think Herm Edwards is an expert in doing the right thing to win games. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 4 minutes ago, mattynh said: Really? Because going for it is the right call. Simple math shows that. oh really. Bass - O - Matic is $. The Tenny game - Take the 3 and live for OT. Jax 4 th and 14 (again) Take the 3 and live for OT. Coaching lost the opportunity twice in 3 weeks. They would be top dog with only 2 losses 3 minutes ago, LeGOATski said: HELLO. And the Bills LOST 😆 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeGOATski Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 1 minute ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: HELLO. And the Bills LOST 😆 But they played to win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, mattynh said: Really? Because going for it is the right call. Simple math shows that. Well that's correct depending on the yardage needed to gain. If 4th and 10 or more it's different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirAndrew Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 29 minutes ago, Alphadawg7 said: Kevin Kelley pretty much never punts, always goes for it on 4th down and won 9 Arkansas State Championships in 18 years. He also frequently onside kicks too. https://www.si.com/college/2021/05/21/kevin-kelley-high-school-never-punts-presbyterian The 4th down thing makes total sense in the right situation at every level. The onside kick has terrible odds at most levels. Onside kicks would only work at the high school level if you have a team that dominates its opponents in every phase. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alphadawg7 Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 1 minute ago, SirAndrew said: The 4th down thing makes total sense in the right situation at every level. The onside kick has terrible odds at most levels. Onside kicks would only work at the high school level if you have a team that dominates its opponents in every phase. Oh I agree...just was letting the OP know there is someone who does it he can take a look at 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Generic_Bills_Fan Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 32 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: I think it’s stupid if you need 3 points to tie and go for it on 4th and 1 at the goal line and get stuffed Haha true the hindsight was bad on that one 😂 tough to pick up a crucial yard on a 4th down when your oline is struggling in one on one matchups. I really thought they were starting to pick up in that game and the titans dline was getting gassed which might have factored into the decision but they made the play that counted…crazy how different this season would look if we won that game even with our bad colts loss 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Italian Bills said: Every time i watch a Bills game, i think this: if i was the HC i would say to my offensive players to play always thinking they have four attempts and not three to get the first down, when they are in opponent’s territory. I know that lately, always more frequently, we see teams go for it on fourth and one… but i’m talking about having always the mindset to have four attempts and not three to gain the ten yards. I think it could be mentally different play like this.. it would help to know that you have to get less than three yards per attempt on every down to get the first down. What you think ? I think we have lost games getting too cocky. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 2, 2021 Share Posted December 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: I think we have lost games getting too cocky. that is possible hubris experiment in Practice Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 51 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said: I think we have lost games getting too cocky. Bills have done pretty good the times they do go for it on 4th down. Sure there are few times they didn't convert, but I wouldn't say that's why they lost games. McD has confidence in the offense and they convert more often than not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 hours ago, Italian Bills said: Every time i watch a Bills game, i think this: if i was the HC i would say to my offensive players to play always thinking they have four attempts and not three to get the first down, when they are in opponent’s territory. I know that lately, always more frequently, we see teams go for it on fourth and one… but i’m talking about having always the mindset to have four attempts and not three to gain the ten yards. I think it could be mentally different play like this.. it would help to know that you have to get less than three yards per attempt on every down to get the first down. What you think ? If the team knows it will use 4 downs to get the first down, sure, it definitely is an advantage to have 4 plays to work with to get 10 yards instead of just 3. That's one of the reasons why it is sometimes much wiser to go for it than to punt the ball. But would there be some psychological benefit to the players making them play better if you told them to "think like they are going to use 4 downs" ???? I don't think so. Or if there is one, it's so small as to be insignificant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sugar High JA17 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Can we have a re-do on that titans game, stupid game could cost us big Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills808 Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 This is the follow for you: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said: Well that's correct depending on the yardage needed to gain. If 4th and 10 or more it's different. Correct. 13/14 on 4th and 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bookie Man Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 Rivera is a moron for not kicking a 20 yard FG to make it 10 points with under 2:00 min to play. Now that was 100% the wrong call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 16 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: oh really. Bass - O - Matic is $. The Tenny game - Take the 3 and live for OT. Jax 4 th and 14 (again) Take the 3 and live for OT. Coaching lost the opportunity twice in 3 weeks. They would be top dog with only 2 losses HELLO. And the Bills LOST 😆 You make the decision with the Information you have. Not after you see the results. The bills and Allen were 13/14 on 4th and one up to that point. I’ll take those odds to win the game. Taking it to OT is 50/50. So you want 50% or a 93% chance to win? hello simple math Edited December 3, 2021 by mattynh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Duffy Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, mattynh said: Correct. 13/14 on 4th and 1 Exactly. Obviously odds are always in your favor on 4th and short situations. Not sure what it is on a 4th and 5 or whatever, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 7 minutes ago, GoBills808 said: This is the follow for you: What this tells ME is, we should be ground breakers and shock them by punting on THIRD down. They will never see THAT coming! @BringBackFlutie might agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_In_NH Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 4 minutes ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said: Exactly. Obviously odds are always in your favor on 4th and short situations. Not sure what it is on a 4th and 5 or whatever, And it was forth and 12 inches. Dawkins got tricked into Allen fro LT. Need to execute there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSarcasm Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 32 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: I think it’s stupid if you need 3 points to tie and go for it on 4th and 1 at the goal line and get stuffed Yea, okay. I think we can all agree that if a coach knows he can't make it on 4th down he shouldn't go for it 🙃 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Augie said: What this tells ME is, we should be ground breakers and shock them by punting on THIRD down. They will never see THAT coming! @BringBackFlutie might agree. I think you meant @BringBackFergy but I DO agree. Edited December 3, 2021 by BringBackFlutie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, BringBackFlutie said: I think you meant @BringBackFergy but I DO agree. Nah, I was looking for a drop kick if needed! We be versatile! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 "mentally different".....yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatsFanNH Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 4 hours ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said: oh really. Bass - O - Matic is $. The Tenny game - Take the 3 and live for OT. Jax 4 th and 14 (again) Take the 3 and live for OT. Coaching lost the opportunity twice in 3 weeks. They would be top dog with only 2 losses HELLO. And the Bills LOST 😆 Your assuming they win in OT. They could easily have lost both as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BringBackFlutie Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 33 minutes ago, Augie said: Nah, I was looking for a drop kick if needed! We be versatile! Followed up with a triangle. We're good. Continue posting!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 3 hours ago, Sheneneh Jenkins said: Bills have done pretty good the times they do go for it on 4th down. Sure there are few times they didn't convert, but I wouldn't say that's why they lost games. McD has confidence in the offense and they convert more often than not You have to read the game. If you are getting stuffed all game, don't assume you're gonna convert 4th down just because that's what you do. Take the points and be in the game. Remember the Pats game in Buffalo two seasons ago? The one Allen got knocked out of? Barkly has us 4th and goal at the 2 down 6, we go for it and we fail. Had we kicked we'd be down three. Next possession we are in FG range again, still down 6. We go for it on 4th and fail again. If we had kicked the FG earlier, we could tie the game. Instead we go on to lose by 6. That was a game a little humility would have been a good thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian Bills Posted December 3, 2021 Author Share Posted December 3, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, Nextmanup said: If the team knows it will use 4 downs to get the first down, sure, it definitely is an advantage to have 4 plays to work with to get 10 yards instead of just 3. That's one of the reasons why it is sometimes much wiser to go for it than to punt the ball. But would there be some psychological benefit to the players making them play better if you told them to "think like they are going to use 4 downs" ???? I don't think so. Or if there is one, it's so small as to be insignificant. 5 hours ago, Nextmanup said: If the team knows it will use 4 downs to get the first down, sure, it definitely is an advantage to have 4 plays to work with to get 10 yards instead of just 3. That's one of the reasons why it is sometimes much wiser to go for it than to punt the ball. But would there be some psychological benefit to the players making them play better if you told them to "think like they are going to use 4 downs" ???? I don't think so. Or if there is one, it's so small as to be insignificant. Thanks God you really understood what i meant in my post. Of curse i didn’t mean to go for it on a 4th and 5 or 6… if not that you are down by a TD with the game on the line. I just meant to play every possession with this mindset, thinking you have 4 attempts and not three to get the 10 yards. You will focus on get less than 3 yards per attempt and that could be very different. At the same time the defense would be stressed much more knowing that has to defend for 4 times and not three. Edited December 3, 2021 by Italian Bills Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlimShady'sSpaceForce Posted December 3, 2021 Share Posted December 3, 2021 20 hours ago, MrSarcasm said: Yea, okay. I think we can all agree that if a coach knows he can't make it on 4th down he shouldn't go for it 🙃 you don’t recognize sarcasm MrSarcasm? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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