Bills unlikely to leave Buffalo if PSE doesn’t get public or state funding for stadium

[BuffaloBills1998]

58 minutes ago, Gen2 said:

 

Not WANTING to move the team, and being stupid for not moving the team are two different things. I want the Bills to stay in Buffalo (or at least western New York) as much as the next fan, but realistically, can the area's economy support an NFL franchise?

 

It would break my heart, but I suspect there is a city or two willing to foot SOME of the costs and able to support at least league mid level ticket prices, and PSLs. I just don't see the local fans willingly supporting a 100% rise in ticket prices along with thousands of dollars for PSLs for the right to buy those tickets.

 

As far as gov't $$$ to help and pay for the stadium, IMHO, the people of Erie county and NYS will feel the money is better spent elsewhere (and I can't say I blame them).

 

My biggest fear is someplace (maybe like St. Louis) wants a team and is willing to pay for it. I'm not 100% sure the team won't move and I think that anybody who claims they are positive this will play out one way or the other is just whistling in the graveyard to cover their fears.

St. Louis will never get another pro football team. They’ve now lost two pro football teams plus they’re suing the NFL over the Rams and it’s looking like they might win. That pretty much solidifies St. Louis never getting another NFL team

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

4 hours ago, Gugny said:

“If I want to make some money, I'll go drill another well.”  - TP

 

I know he sold East resources, and corresponding assets in like 14 and 2017.  But i think he still owns 2 other companies.  He's probably drilled a bunch of them 😆

[BuffaloBills1998]

7 minutes ago, plenzmd1 said:

 

 

similar to what i have heard as well. Both sides sounds like they agree public money will be spent, just a matter of how much and terms. Ive sold enterprise software for 35 years, all deals get to this point. You say you want my offering, i say i want your business...but now the evalution is over and the spending gets real. This is when the real work begins, and is usually the longest stage in the sales process

 

If both sides want to get the deal done, it will get done. But in no way do i think the Bills leaving is impossible, it can happen if NYS becomes dug in for political purposes.

 

 

BTW, not to get all political, but NYS got a little over $100B in the Rescue plan funds, i don't think 1% of that going to fund a stadium to keep an entire region moving forward is a bad use of funds.

While it may not be impossible it’s looking more and more like it’s unlikely to happen. NYS and Erie county both have the money to help support the new stadium. Plus if Pegula were to move the Bills then he’d have to move the Sabres as well due to angry fans refusing to show up to the games due to the Bills moving. So infact it would cost Pegula more money and a major headache to move then it would to stay, Pegula is not taking the team anywhere else. San Diego wouldn’t even build a stadium for the chargers plus they never showed up to the games, St. Louis is done and will never get another team, Toronto can’t afford an NFL team let alone building an NFL stadium, Oakland is broke and is a dump of a city, they’re most likely to never get another NFL team again like St Louis. So there’s really no where else for the Bills to go. The relocation talk was nothing more than empty threats

Edited September 15, 2021 by BuffaloBills1998

[HalftimeAdjustment]

The only way the Bills are moving is if the county/state take some unreasonable $0 position. I believe that is mainly the position of a vocal, passionate minority and will not be the actual government offer. Once they have gotten as much as they can from the county/state, the Bills will agree to a deal. 

 

Also, no matter what that deal is, some people will not be happy. 

[Gen2]

18 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

St. Louis will never get another pro football team. They’ve now lost two pro football teams plus they’re suing the NFL over the Rams and it’s looking like they might win. That pretty much solidifies St. Louis never getting another NFL team

 

 

That's easy to type into a forum thread, but you have nothing supporting your statement. Let's paint a picture here;

 

As far as St Louis is concerned they didn't "lose" the Rams, they had the Rams unlawfully taken from them, they are currently suing the NFL because of the Rams move. Everything the NFL has done to squash the lawsuit so far has failed, and at this point it LOOKS like it will be going to trial (in St Louis). Let's just say, the NFL doesn't want their dirty laundry becoming public record through the trial process, and decides to settle out of court. I have no idea what kind of money would be involved, but for the sake of argument let's say 1.7 billion dollars. Now if St Louis would be willing to parlay that money into a new stadium and offer the Bills that new stadium for free, on what grounds would or could the NFL stop the move? Do you honestly think they would "black ball" St Louis to prevent the move knowing St Louis isn't shy about taking them to court?? 

[nucci]

8 minutes ago, Gen2 said:

 

 

That's easy to type into a forum thread, but you have nothing supporting your statement. Let's paint a picture here;

 

As far as St Louis is concerned they didn't "lose" the Rams, they had the Rams unlawfully taken from them, they are currently suing the NFL because of the Rams move. Everything the NFL has done to squash the lawsuit so far has failed, and at this point it LOOKS like it will be going to trial (in St Louis). Let's just say, the NFL doesn't want their dirty laundry becoming public record through the trial process, and decides to settle out of court. I have no idea what kind of money would be involved, but for the sake of argument let's say 1.7 billion dollars. Now if St Louis would be willing to parlay that money into a new stadium and offer the Bills that new stadium for free, on what grounds would or could the NFL stop the move? Do you honestly think they would "black ball" St Louis to prevent the move knowing St Louis isn't shy about taking them to court?? 

I was thinking...."Drop the lawsuit and we'll give you another team"

[BuffaloBills1998]

28 minutes ago, Gen2 said:

 

 

That's easy to type into a forum thread, but you have nothing supporting your statement. Let's paint a picture here;

 

As far as St Louis is concerned they didn't "lose" the Rams, they had the Rams unlawfully taken from them, they are currently suing the NFL because of the Rams move. Everything the NFL has done to squash the lawsuit so far has failed, and at this point it LOOKS like it will be going to trial (in St Louis). Let's just say, the NFL doesn't want their dirty laundry becoming public record through the trial process, and decides to settle out of court. I have no idea what kind of money would be involved, but for the sake of argument let's say 1.7 billion dollars. Now if St Louis would be willing to parlay that money into a new stadium and offer the Bills that new stadium for free, on what grounds would or could the NFL stop the move? Do you honestly think they would "black ball" St Louis to prevent the move knowing St Louis isn't shy about taking them to court?? 

Yes I do, because again they’ve lost two NFL teams. Regardless how the Rams left, they still lost them. St. Louis is not a football town it’s a baseball town. St. Louis is not going to get another NFL team just like Oakland and San Diego

[Gen2]

1 minute ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Yes I do, because again they’ve lost two NFL teams. Regardless how the Rams left, they still lost them. St. Louis is not a football town it’s a baseball town. St. Louis is not going to get another NFL team just like Oakland and San Diego

 

 

For some reason I don't think the thought process of "Your honor we didn't allow the Bills to move to St Louis because it's a baseball town" would hold up in court if they would take the NFL to court for black balling them. I DO agree with you that Oakland and San Diego will never get another NFL team, but it's because of the lack of outside funding for new stadiums in their respective cities, the reasons for that belong on the political board and have nothing to do with which sport may or may not have been more popular.

[Mr. WEO]

23 minutes ago, Gen2 said:

 

 

That's easy to type into a forum thread, but you have nothing supporting your statement. Let's paint a picture here;

 

As far as St Louis is concerned they didn't "lose" the Rams, they had the Rams unlawfully taken from them, they are currently suing the NFL because of the Rams move. Everything the NFL has done to squash the lawsuit so far has failed, and at this point it LOOKS like it will be going to trial (in St Louis). Let's just say, the NFL doesn't want their dirty laundry becoming public record through the trial process, and decides to settle out of court. I have no idea what kind of money would be involved, but for the sake of argument let's say 1.7 billion dollars. Now if St Louis would be willing to parlay that money into a new stadium and offer the Bills that new stadium for free, on what grounds would or could the NFL stop the move? Do you honestly think they would "black ball" St Louis to prevent the move knowing St Louis isn't shy about taking them to court?? 

 

LOL--heck, why not 1.7 TRILLION!!??

 

Anyway, sure Kroenke is a scumbag, but St. Louis has only themselves to blame for signing such an idiotic lease agreement to "upgrade" the Dome for 700 mil to make it "1st tier" (whatever that means)----and then refused to do so.   That's all Stan the Man needed to initiate his LA Protocol.  "We were too stupid" isn't a convincing legal argument. 

 

Also, the Defense says that their guidelines for relocation are not rules and therefore obviously are not a contract with any city, least of all St Louis.  They are "unilateral" policies made expressly for the "benefit of the league and its members".  Nothing secret there. 

 

Also, he left St. Louis for the same reason you claim the Buffalo can't economically sustain the Bills (see the NFL's comments about this at the time).  No one is moving a team to St. Louis.   

 

The last time a city took the NFL to court over a move was Oakland.  The case got tossed.  Do you think the NFL wants to set a precedent that they will payoff cities that lose teams (settlements)?

 

 

[GunnerBill]

2 hours ago, Gen2 said:

 

Not WANTING to move the team, and being stupid for not moving the team are two different things. I want the Bills to stay in Buffalo (or at least western New York) as much as the next fan, but realistically, can the area's economy support an NFL franchise?

 

It would break my heart, but I suspect there is a city or two willing to foot SOME of the costs and able to support at least league mid level ticket prices, and PSLs. I just don't see the local fans willingly supporting a 100% rise in ticket prices along with thousands of dollars for PSLs for the right to buy those tickets.

 

As far as gov't $$$ to help and pay for the stadium, IMHO, the people of Erie county and NYS will feel the money is better spent elsewhere (and I can't say I blame them).

 

My biggest fear is someplace (maybe like St. Louis) wants a team and is willing to pay for it. I'm not 100% sure the team won't move and I think that anybody who claims they are positive this will play out one way or the other is just whistling in the graveyard to cover their fears.

 

I don't think the Pegulas want to move. Now could they be inclined to sell if something doesn't give, to someone who might want to move? Sure. My point was actually they are not in a great negotiating position because they don't have a lot of obvious leverage. 

[TXBILLSFAN]

1 hour ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

While it may not be impossible it’s looking more and more like it’s unlikely to happen. NYS and Erie county both have the money to help support the new stadium. Plus if Pegula were to move the Bills then he’d have to move the Sabres as well due to angry fans refusing to show up to the games due to the Bills moving. So infact it would cost Pegula more money and a major headache to move then it would to stay, Pegula is not taking the team anywhere else. San Diego wouldn’t even build a stadium for the chargers plus they never showed up to the games, St. Louis is done and will never get another team, Toronto can’t afford an NFL team let alone building an NFL stadium, Oakland is broke and is a dump of a city, they’re most likely to never get another NFL team again like St Louis. So there’s really no where else for the Bills to go. The relocation talk was nothing more than empty threats

 

Relocation is not an empty threat, in the past decade . . . .

Chargers moved to LA

Rams moved to LA

Raiders moved to Vegas

 

There are larger and more economically viable markets for an NFL team than Buffalo.

 

What I am urging is for all of us to support NY State to provide partial funding similar to what they did for NY metro teams for a new stadium.  This is an investment in the Western NY community for an asset that has tangible value.

 

 

 

[Gen2]

1 hour ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

LOL--heck, why not 1.7 TRILLION!!??

 

 

 

 

I thought I was pretty upfront in saying I had no idea what the dollar figures were or would be, I just analy extracted 1.7 billion for the sake of the discussion.

[Gen2]

The following is a cut and past from a prior post that no one responded to, I REALLY am interested in discussion with local fans as to their feelings. I'm not looking for a "they won't leave" or "yes they will" kind of responses, just looking for what the local "level of pain" the fans are willing to endure to keep the team.

 

 

All of this talk has me wondering what everybody's thoughts are in supporting a new stadium. Some discussion points as I see them are:

 

1) The elephant in the room is city/county/state support. I understand peoples reluctance in supporting a stadium with taxpayers money, but the fact of the matter is there are locations out there who would be willing to give at least SOME level of support to a stadium, how do you feel 0% - 100% government support or something in between?

 

2) Ticket prices. According to my research, the Bills currently have the lowest average ticket price @ $74.95 with the NFL average @ $104.73 and the highest for the LV Raiders @ $153.47. What level of a ticket price would you support, up to the NFL average, up to Raider levels, somewhere in between?

 

3) PSLs. Personally, I find the mere concept of PSLs distasteful, but the fact of the matter is over half of the NFL charge them to help finance their stadium, how much would you think someone should pay for the "right" to buy a season ticket?

 

 

Since I don't live in western N.Y. anymore I don't feel like I have a dog in this fight, but here are my thoughts anyway.

 

1) I left N.Y. many years ago, and haven't returned to live for a number of reasons, taxes being one of them. With that being said, I don't really care if the city/county/state pick up 100% of the tab, however I AM sensitive that there are a number of better areas that tax dollars can and should be spent. However, I am sure that there are a few cities willing to support at least a portion of a new stadium, St Louis and maybe San Diego or Oakland ... and maybe there are one or two out there hiding in the wood work.

 

2) As I said in item one, I don't live in the area and fly in for a game or two per season. When piled on to airfare, hotel, and food costs, raising ticket prices to even the Raider level would only be a "background noise level" of added expense. I would still be flying in for a game or two per season.

 

3) Once again, I'll never be a season ticket holder so even though I cringe at the thought of PSLs, I really don't care.

 

 

I'm really interested in the western N.Y. Bills fans feelings on the topic, it's just too easy for us expats to spend the locals money. 

[PromoTheRobot]

I don't buy this either. There has to be some public money going into the project.

[Jauronimo]

1 hour ago, TXBILLSFAN said:

 

Relocation is not an empty threat, in the past decade . . . .

Chargers moved to LA

Rams moved to LA

Raiders moved to Vegas

 

There are larger and more economically viable markets for an NFL team than Buffalo.

 

What I am urging is for all of us to support NY State to provide partial funding similar to what they did for NY metro teams for a new stadium.  This is an investment in the Western NY community for an asset that has tangible value.

 

 

 

There really aren't that many cities in the U.S. who can sustain an NFL team.  Buffalo has proven to be a viable market.

[SoCal Deek]

8 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

There really aren't that many cities in the U.S. who can sustain an NFL team.  Buffalo has proven to be a viable market.

If you google the Top 50 Metro areas in the United States, the WNY area comes in at #49.

Here's the list in descending order of population that do not have an NFL Team:

 

13 Riverside/San Bernardino

17 San Diego

22 Orlando

24 San Antonio

28 Austin

32 Columbus

35 San Jose

37 Virginia Beach

38 Providence

40 Milwaukee

41 Oklahoma City

44 Richmond

47 Salt Lake City

48 Hartford

[Greg S]

19 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I don't buy this either. There has to be some public money going into the project.

 

I am sure there will be. Also having Kathy Hochul (a native WNY girl and Bills fan) makes this is the perfect time to get a deal done so shovels can go into the ground. You know she doesn't want the Bills to move on her watch as the most powerful person in NY. 

[Jauronimo]

3 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

If you google the Top 50 Metro areas in the United States, the WNY area comes in at #49.

Here's the list in descending order of population that do not have an NFL Team:

 

13 Riverside/San Bernardino - Putting a 3rd team in Los Angeles?

17 San Diego - just lost a team due to lack of support and financing for a stadium.

22 Orlando - right in the middle of three rabid fanbases Tampa, Jville, and Miami.  Florida probably needs one less team more than they need 4 teams.

24 San Antonio - transient military town, everyone is from somewhere else.  Cowboys country, and Jerry will never allow it.

28 Austin - city has zero professional sports.  UT Football is king, Cowboys country, and Jerry will never allow it.

32 Columbus - Buckeye town, any other football team is a distant second favorite.  Let them worry about supporting one professional franchise before a 3rd professional team in Ohio competes with Browns and Bengals.

35 San Jose - Bay Area, 49ers country.  Also formerly Raider territory until the Bay Area could no longer support 2 teams.

37 Virginia Beach - Military town, everyone is from somewhere else. Transient.

38 Providence - Patriots country, no way.

40 Milwaukee - Green Bay territory.  Two teams in Wisconsin is crazy talk.

41 Oklahoma City - Sooner town.   Any pro team would be a distant 2nd favorite in that football market.

44 Richmond - i dont know anything about Richmond.

47 Salt Lake City - there is nothing within hundreds of miles of SLC but maybe that would work?

48 Hartford - Patriots Country, no way.

Buffalo as football market includes southern Ontario and WNY over to Syracuse which needs to be factored in.  There are some cities that are bigger but as football markets few make any real sense.  

 

See above.

[The Frankish Reich]

2 hours ago, Gen2 said:

 

 

That's easy to type into a forum thread, but you have nothing supporting your statement. Let's paint a picture here;

 

As far as St Louis is concerned they didn't "lose" the Rams, they had the Rams unlawfully taken from them, they are currently suing the NFL because of the Rams move. Everything the NFL has done to squash the lawsuit so far has failed, and at this point it LOOKS like it will be going to trial (in St Louis). Let's just say, the NFL doesn't want their dirty laundry becoming public record through the trial process, and decides to settle out of court. I have no idea what kind of money would be involved, but for the sake of argument let's say 1.7 billion dollars. Now if St Louis would be willing to parlay that money into a new stadium and offer the Bills that new stadium for free, on what grounds would or could the NFL stop the move? Do you honestly think they would "black ball" St Louis to prevent the move knowing St Louis isn't shy about taking them to court?? 

this ^ is making too much sense for my fragile disposition.

I have this sneaking suspicion that when things no longer make sense - having one of just 32 NFL teams in Buffalo, with Buffalo being roughly the 52nd largest market - they tend to get "corrected." And the correction here would be moving a team. Thankfully the vast majority of larger markets are taken, or they face obstacles like NFL owners and their territorial claims (Cowboys and Austin or San Antonio, Orlando and Jax or Tampa), or there's logistical problems (Canadian cities seemed a no-brainer until COVID hit). But there's money to be made by some group somewhere, and there's more of it outside of Buffalo than inside. Pegulas, don't give in to temptation!

[SoCal Deek]

2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Buffalo as football market includes southern Ontario and WNY over to Syracuse which needs to be factored in.  There are some cities that are bigger but as football markets few make any real sense.  

 

See above.

Not arguing that. Just thought the list was interesting.  For example, Riverside/San Bernardino, otherwise known as the Inland Empire here is SoCal is huge with 4.5 Million people. It lies about an hour east of Los Angeles. 

[The Frankish Reich]

20 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

If you google the Top 50 Metro areas in the United States, the WNY area comes in at #49.

Here's the list in descending order of population that do not have an NFL Team:

 

13 Riverside/San Bernardino

17 San Diego

22 Orlando

24 San Antonio

28 Austin

32 Columbus

35 San Jose

37 Virginia Beach

38 Providence

40 Milwaukee

41 Oklahoma City

44 Richmond

47 Salt Lake City

48 Hartford

Best choices here: 

- San Diego: a sympathy choice, and there's money to be made with an NFL team in a vacation destination

- San Antonio: big growth area, more business friendly climate than Austin, a little farther from Dallas

- OKC and or Tulsa: would slice off some of the Cowboys' base, huge football country, but may have trouble diverting attention from NCAAF 

- SLC: another huge growth area and about 500 miles to the closest existing team east or west

- 

[gordong]

8 hours ago, Gugny said:

“If I want to make some money, I'll go drill another well.”  - TP

Better yet sell the sabres....nobody gives a crap about them anyway

[Mr. WEO]

1 hour ago, Gen2 said:

 

 

I thought I was pretty upfront in saying I had no idea what the dollar figures were or would be, I just analy extracted 1.7 billion for the sake of the discussion.

 

 

You said so......yet you then just happened to pick an amount that an NFL stadium would just happen to cost----then built your conclusion around that number, as though the stadium would just be paid for as a result of this action, so a team could just move to St. Louis.

 

That's not an outcome that could be possible.  

[Gen2]

2 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

You said so......yet you then just happened to pick an amount that an NFL stadium would just happen to cost----then built your conclusion around that number, as though the stadium would just be paid for as a result of this action, so a team could just move to St. Louis.

 

That's not an outcome that could be possible.  

 

 

I didn't mean for it to sound like I was building a conclusion for what would happen, I was just presenting a discussion point for what could happen. It really doesn't matter if a settlement is arrived at 1.7 billion, or 1 billion, or 700 million, or 500 million, my premise was what if St Louis parleyed that money into partial funding for a stadium and offered the Bills some kind of sweetheart deal. Of course the premise falls apart if the courts find in favor of the NFL, or award the city "token"  damages of $1.00 which are both also possible.

[Greg S]

33 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Best choices here: 

- San Diego: a sympathy choice, and there's money to be made with an NFL team in a vacation destination

- San Antonio: big growth area, more business friendly climate than Austin, a little farther from Dallas

- OKC and or Tulsa: would slice off some of the Cowboys' base, huge football country, but may have trouble diverting attention from NCAAF 

- SLC: another huge growth area and about 500 miles to the closest existing team east or west

- 

 

Didn't the Chargers leave because there stadium was a dump and they couldn't get a new one built. I can't see that being an option. Plus the fanbase in SD wasn't all that great. It was better than LA is but still not that great.

[Mr. WEO]

2 hours ago, Gen2 said:

 

 

I didn't mean for it to sound like I was building a conclusion for what would happen, I was just presenting a discussion point for what could happen. It really doesn't matter if a settlement is arrived at 1.7 billion, or 1 billion, or 700 million, or 500 million, my premise was what if St Louis parleyed that money into partial funding for a stadium and offered the Bills some kind of sweetheart deal. Of course the premise falls apart if the courts find in favor of the NFL, or award the city "token"  damages of $1.00 which are both also possible.

 

 

Some guy said that St. Louis would never get another team.

 

So you said:

 

"That's easy to type into a forum thread, but you have nothing supporting your statement....right after he logically concluded  they would never get another team--and why.

 

Then you said (irony alert!!):

 

 

"Let's paint a picture here;"  

 

" let's say 1.7 billion dollars. Now if St Louis would be willing to parlay that money into a new stadium and offer the Bills that new stadium for free, on what grounds would or could the NFL stop the move?"

 

The Bills are already going to get at least 500 mil from the govt in NY. 

 

And to answer your last question there...that's easy--more than 8 owners voting "no". 

[HalftimeAdjustment]

4 hours ago, SoCal Deek said:

If you google the Top 50 Metro areas in the United States, the WNY area comes in at #49.

Here's the list in descending order of population that do not have an NFL Team:

 

13 Riverside/San Bernardino

17 San Diego

22 Orlando

24 San Antonio

28 Austin

32 Columbus

35 San Jose

37 Virginia Beach

38 Providence

40 Milwaukee

41 Oklahoma City

44 Richmond

47 Salt Lake City

48 Hartford

 

I do not think it is reasonable to say that San Jose does not have a team. Look at where the 49ers actually play. And can you really say Milwaukee does not have a team?

 

Several of the metros above that are problematic for team proximity as well. Once you get into the 40s the improvement above WNY is not that great.

 

The biggest contenders still seem like San Diego, San Antonio, and Orlando. Note than San Antonio can pull from Austin or vice versa.

[HalftimeAdjustment]

4 hours ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Best choices here: 

- San Diego: a sympathy choice, and there's money to be made with an NFL team in a vacation destination

- San Antonio: big growth area, more business friendly climate than Austin, a little farther from Dallas

- OKC and or Tulsa: would slice off some of the Cowboys' base, huge football country, but may have trouble diverting attention from NCAAF 

- SLC: another huge growth area and about 500 miles to the closest existing team east or west

- 

 

Which ever city it is needs to make an offer significantly better than what can be gotten from NY. San Diego previously rejected a $1.15B subsidy and offered a $375M package before the Chargers left. Now that they are already living without a team, will they actually go much higher on the package? Granted, it is several years later but my guess is they will not be that willing to lay out cash at this point. So despite the extra money that can be garnered from SD, that has to be weighed against very high upfront costs to relocate there.

[RiotAct]

50 minutes ago, HalftimeAdjustment said:

 

I do not think it is reasonable to say that San Jose does not have a team. Look at where the 49ers actually play. And can you really say Milwaukee does not have a team?

 

Several of the metros above that are problematic for team proximity as well. Once you get into the 40s the improvement above WNY is not that great.

 

The biggest contenders still seem like San Diego, San Antonio, and Orlando. Note than San Antonio can pull from Austin or vice versa.

plus Providence and Hartford are Cheaters territory.

[BigDingus]

The simple solution is for Buffalo to just double or triple in size...

 

More people = more tax revenue = easier stadium funding = more money for the Bills.

 

Just force all your family, friends & loved ones to relocate en masse to Buffalo, at gunpoint if you have to. And if that doesn't double the city's size, we just start taking in refugees from every war-torn country. Easy peasy! 

[TXBILLSFAN]

17 hours ago, Jauronimo said:

Buffalo as football market includes southern Ontario and WNY over to Syracuse which needs to be factored in.  There are some cities that are bigger but as football markets few make any real sense.  

 

See above.

 

Most of the market's on So Cal Deek's list all have additional population centers from which they would draw, similar to Buffalo.  For instance, San Antonio metro is 2.5M, but, Austin is about hour and 20 minute drive (similar to Rochester to Buffalo) and Austin metro is about 2.5M.

 

Population is one measure, but, economic health is the truer measure to support PSL's and suites.  That is where the real issue resides with Buffalo.  Attendance has never been an issue in Buffalo (which has the lowest seat prices), but, suite sales have always lagged.  

 

Buffalo is at a significant disadvantage when we start talking about the heart of the issue, MONEY !!

 

Like I said, ALL of us should support and encourage NY state and local politicians to invest in the Bills and help fund and support a new stadium.

 

 

 

 

[Jauronimo]

24 minutes ago, TXBILLSFAN said:

 

Most of the market's on So Cal Deek's list all have additional population centers from which they would draw, similar to Buffalo.  For instance, San Antonio metro is 2.5M, but, Austin is about hour and 20 minute drive (similar to Rochester to Buffalo) and Austin metro is about 2.5M.

 

Population is one measure, but, economic health is the truer measure to support PSL's and suites.  That is where the real issue resides with Buffalo.  Attendance has never been an issue in Buffalo (which has the lowest seat prices), but, suite sales have always lagged.  

 

Buffalo is at a significant disadvantage when we start talking about the heart of the issue, MONEY !!

 

Like I said, ALL of us should support and encourage NY state and local politicians to invest in the Bills and help fund and support a new stadium.

 

 

 

 

1. Jerry Jones will use every ounce of political capital that he has to block a third NFL team in Texas.  

2. Nothing is competing with UT in the Austin market.  Nothing.

3. San Antonio could probably support a team even though its numbers are inflated by a huge military presence which is a transient population, but see #1. 

4. Last I checked everywhere outside of Houston is Cowboys country.

[TXBILLSFAN]

8 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

1. Jerry Jones will use every ounce of political capital that he has to block a third NFL team in Texas.  

2. Nothing is competing with UT in the Austin market.  Nothing.

3. San Antonio could probably support a team even though its numbers are inflated by a huge military presence which is a transient population, but see #1. 

4. Last I checked everywhere outside of Houston is Cowboys country.

 

In my first post I said I didn't think another team in Texas would happen, but, Jerry is only one owner.  But, let's set aside that potential threat.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._metropolitan_areas_by_GDP

 

Metro areas by GDP

Orlando, Portland, St Louis and San Diego are all in the Top 30.

Buffalo isn't in the Top 50 !

 

Buffalo doesn't have the money to compete, we need the state and local politicians to understand and appreciate this fact and provide partial funding for a new stadium so the team does not move.  Public funding and tax breaks for NY area stadium / arenas:

Yankee stadium, $1.2B

Mets stadium, $600M

Barclays, $500M

etc,

 

Don't let politicians fool you, they have the money, it's time for Buffalo to get their share !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Punching Bag]

48 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

1. Jerry Jones will use every ounce of political capital that he has to block a third NFL team in Texas.  

2. Nothing is competing with UT in the Austin market.  Nothing.

3. San Antonio could probably support a team even though its numbers are inflated by a huge military presence which is a transient population, but see #1. 

4. Last I checked everywhere outside of Houston is Cowboys country.

 

@Jauronimoother than being a Dick Jauron disciple you appear to be a very intelligent poster.

Austin was a completely BS by the Albany writer who does not cover NFL.

He had his article revived multiple times since publication removing many things told to him by his source.

His source, if he had one, was not involved in NFL.  Based on his job it was likely someone in NY legislature or a lobbyist probably from downstate.

Clickbait sites like PFF and ran speculative articles; some professional writers (professional in terms of being paid not quality) like ESPN writer Seth Wickersham ran with it.

Austin was not a potential site and never has Austin even looked for an expansion team.

[PromoTheRobot]

I seem to recall the architectural firm Populous being mentioned with this project. Here's a page highlighting some of their recent stadium designs. The Totenham Hotspur stadium looks like what is being discussed for Buffalo. 60K, open air, covered stands.

 

https://populous.com/our-projects/stadium-experience

 

[Patience]

9 minutes ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I seem to recall the architectural firm Populous being mentioned with this project. Here's a page highlighting some of their recent stadium designs. The Totenham Hotspur stadium looks like what is being discussed for Buffalo. 60K, open air, covered stands.

 

https://populous.com/our-projects/stadium-experience

 

 

Good find!  Although I do have preferences, at the end of the day, I don't much care how the stadium ends up looking.  But, I'd be pretty happy with something close to that picture.  

[SirAndrew]

On 9/16/2021 at 10:24 AM, Jauronimo said:

1. Jerry Jones will use every ounce of political capital that he has to block a third NFL team in Texas.  

2. Nothing is competing with UT in the Austin market.  Nothing.

3. San Antonio could probably support a team even though its numbers are inflated by a huge military presence which is a transient population, but see #1. 

4. Last I checked everywhere outside of Houston is Cowboys country.

College football really is the greatest hurdle in every potential NFL market. I don’t think many of us Bills fans fully realize the reach of college football, especially those of us who still live up north. Attending a college game is a more enjoyable experience for the average American. Buffalo has one of the few college like atmospheres on game day in the NFL, but other NFL experiences are vastly different. People in a place like Oklahoma City are going to enjoy attending a Sooners game more than an NFL game. Throw tradition in the mix, and the NFL franchise becomes an afterthought. Americans are attached to their favorite college teams in much the same way as WNYer’s are attached to the Billls. It’s passed down from generation to generation, and no fancy NFL stadium is taking that away. 

[Jauronimo]

1 minute ago, SirAndrew said:

College football really is the greatest hurdle in every potential NFL market. I don’t think many of us Bills fans fully realize the reach of college football, especially those of us who still live up north. Attending a college game is a more enjoyable experience for the average American. Buffalo has one of the few college like atmospheres on game day in the NFL, but other NFL experiences are vastly different. People in a place like Oklahoma City are going to enjoy attending a Sooners game more than an NFL game. Throw tradition in the mix, and the NFL franchise becomes an afterthought. Americans are attached to their favorite college teams in much the same way as WNYer’s are attached to the Billls. It’s passed down from generation to generation, and no fancy NFL stadium is taking that away. 

Yup.  Maybe its similar with some of the great Big 10 teams up north but here in Texas, I ask my colleagues what would they rather have:

 

The next 10 Saints/Texans/Cowboys Super Bowls or just 1 NCAA title for their Aggies/Longhorns/LSU Tigers/Horned Frogs and they don't even need to think about it.  I know its the same in Georgia and Florida.  In terms of importance:

 

1. College Football

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

15. NFL

[Doc]

1 hour ago, PromoTheRobot said:

I seem to recall the architectural firm Populous being mentioned with this project. Here's a page highlighting some of their recent stadium designs. The Totenham Hotspur stadium looks like what is being discussed for Buffalo. 60K, open air, covered stands.

 

https://populous.com/our-projects/stadium-experience

 

 

 

Makes sense since (I just learned looking at the link that) they were involved in the renovations to The Ralph and ADPRO since 2013.

[Mr. WEO]

On 9/16/2021 at 10:40 AM, TXBILLSFAN said:

 

 

 

Don't let politicians fool you, they have the money, it's time for Buffalo to get their share !!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They did:

 

https://nypost.com/2018/07/13/cuomos-buffalo-billion-was-beyond-corrupt/