Dolphins are the frontrunner on trade for Deshaun Watson

[Punching Bag]

6 hours ago, JohnNord said:

Houston is making it easy on the NFL.  He’s going to be inactive this season unless they trade him which seems like a long shot.  If Houston were to start him, he’d probably be placed on the exempt list 

 

Agreed.  Texans do not want to deal with bad publicity but he already wanted to leave Texans and he wanted to be traded.  He talked about sitting out but now he gets paid to do nothing other than show up for practice and meetings.  I have not even seen him on sideline for away games.

[Scott7975]

10 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The NFL needs to take some of the blame. They should just suspend him IMO.

 

Id rather they suspend him when he is actually going to play than while he is obviously going to ride the bench.

[GunnerBill]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Id rather they suspend him when he is actually going to play than while he is obviously going to ride the bench.

 

Which is exactly their thinking. But they are relying on this bizarre wink and nod arrangement with Houston where everyone agrees he is quasi suspended. If Miami turned up tomorrow and said "two 1sts and two 2nds, how about it?" and Houston accepted, then what? Let him go to Miami and play? Or then suspend him? What would their grounds be to suspend him at that point? He could challenge a decision to suddenly suspend him with no material change in circumstance. 

 

I get the NFL is in a tricky spot - a star player, facing major allegations, subject to a long lengthy legal process, but who was willing to sit this season out in any event.... but as a disciplinary body with a set of rules and processes of your own you have to put all that to one side and follow your process. He should be suspended.

[Scott7975]

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Which is exactly their thinking. But they are relying on this bizarre wink and nod arrangement with Houston where everyone agrees he is quasi suspended. If Miami turned up tomorrow and said "two 1sts and two 2nds, how about it?" and Houston accepted, then what? Let him go to Miami and play? Or then suspend him? What would their grounds be to suspend him at that point? He could challenge a decision to suddenly suspend him with no material change in circumstance. 

 

I get the NFL is in a tricky spot - a star player, facing major allegations, subject to a long lengthy legal process, but who was willing to sit this season out in any event.... but as a disciplinary body with a set of rules and processes of your own you have to put all that to one side and follow your process. He should be suspended.

 

Honestly, I dont know the correct answer for this.  I do know that if it were my decision, the guy wouldn't play a down of football until this played out.  If he was found guilty then he would be out of the NFL forever.  I am not in charge though.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Scott7975 said:

 

Honestly, I dont know the correct answer for this.  I do know that if it were my decision, the guy wouldn't play a down of football until this played out.  If he was found guilty then he would be out of the NFL forever.  I am not in charge though.

 

I agree with the first bit. I don't think he should play until this is resolved. Which is why I don't like the NFL's stance because if he was traded tomorrow he would play and that isn't a good look. As for whether he plays again... he would have to be found guilty in a criminal court for me to get there (in which case he is facing at least some prison time). If he is simply found liable to the civil standard then I think a season long suspension from that point is due but he will play again down the road if he wants to. I don't think you can start banning people for life based on civil wrongs. 

[Doc]

8 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

Which is exactly their thinking. But they are relying on this bizarre wink and nod arrangement with Houston where everyone agrees he is quasi suspended. If Miami turned up tomorrow and said "two 1sts and two 2nds, how about it?" and Houston accepted, then what? Let him go to Miami and play? Or then suspend him? What would their grounds be to suspend him at that point? He could challenge a decision to suddenly suspend him with no material change in circumstance. 

 

I get the NFL is in a tricky spot - a star player, facing major allegations, subject to a long lengthy legal process, but who was willing to sit this season out in any event.... but as a disciplinary body with a set of rules and processes of your own you have to put all that to one side and follow your process. He should be suspended.

 

Yeah but suspension involves forfeiture of pay.  That's not happening right now.

 

And he can try and challenge the decision, but Rog has leeway under his PCP.  He might get a game or two knocked off but that's about it.

[Royale with Cheese]

If Brian Flores gets fired in Miami, I would want him on our coaching staff.  

[BuffaloBills1998]

1 minute ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If Brian Flores gets fired in Miami, I would want him on our coaching staff.  

As what? His defense is a 3-4 we run a 4-3. Chances are if he gets fired he heads back to New England

Edited September 30, 2021 by BuffaloBills1998

[GunnerBill]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah but suspension involves forfeiture of pay.  That's not happening right now.

 

And he can try and challenge the decision, but Rog has leeway under his PCP.  He might get a game or two knocked off but that's about it.

 

To be clear where I think Watson would have a case is if he is traded now and then suddenly suspended with no material change of circumstance. I am not sure that Rog has sufficient leeway to do that. He'd have to be able to explain to a court why his decision changed from "not suspended" to "suspended" and I am not sure "well he might actually play now" is sufficient. That is where I think the league is vulnerable. They are banking on him staying in Houston all year and being happy to sit. 

[Royale with Cheese]

2 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

As what? His defense is a 3-4 we run a 4-3.

 

From what I understand, when he was with the Pats, they ran a lot of 4-3.

Plus, I think a good coach is a good coach.  When Dick LeBeau was here, we ran a 4-3 and he was a lifetime 3-4 defense with the Steelers and Bengals.

[BuffaloBills1998]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

From what I understand, when he was with the Pats, they ran a lot of 4-3.

Plus, I think a good coach is a good coach.  When Dick LeBeau was here, we ran a 4-3 and he was a lifetime 3-4 defense with the Steelers and Bengals.

Well that would be up to McD if he wanted to hire him and bring his scheme here. Chances are very unlikely though 

[Captain Hindsight]

7 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If Brian Flores gets fired in Miami, I would want him on our coaching staff.  

Why?

 

 

[BillsShredder83]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

To be clear where I think Watson would have a case is if he is traded now and then suddenly suspended with no material change of circumstance. I am not sure that Rog has sufficient leeway to do that. He'd have to be able to explain to a court why his decision changed from "not suspended" to "suspended" and I am not sure "well he might actually play now" is sufficient. That is where I think the league is vulnerable. They are banking on him staying in Houston all year and being happy to sit. 

Theres plenty of pressure on HOU to not try this, for this reason im sure.  Im not sure how, but im sure there are some low key tricks to making HOU s life miserable if they attempted this

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, Captain Hindsight said:

Why?

 

 

 

I think he's a good coach with terrible QB's.  He made those selections so that's on him but as far as an Assistant coach, he would be good.

[NewEra]

13 hours ago, Doc said:

 

I think any team interested in him won't care about the looming suspension.  The suspension will be maybe 6-8 games.  That still leaves many many more years to play.

6-8 games, why?  If he’s guilty of sexually inappropriate behavior against 22 women….. I vote that he gets at least 2 years suspension if not lifetime.  If he was guilty of doing this to one woman, he might get a couple games.  22 women?  Idk, 6-8 games is like a get out of jail free card for him.  Not to mention that he’s been getting paid for sitting out.  Not sure why he isn’t in the exemption list by now.  
 

Its been a bad look for the nfl on how they’ve dealt with this situation to date imo.  If he’s found to be guilty giving him 6-8 games would be a blood stain in my eyes. 

[GoBills808]

1 hour ago, Royale with Cheese said:

If Brian Flores gets fired in Miami, I would want him on our coaching staff.  

What? No.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

The only team that can trade for Watson is the Dolphins. They are the only team with the draft capital and also the QB need. They have like 13 picks over the next two years, including two 1st rounders in 2023. 
 

But if you are Dolphins, how do you structure a deal to hedge the legal risks of Watson? I don’t think you can. 

[Royale with Cheese]

27 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

What? No.

 

It never goes well when you disagree with me.

[GoBills808]

14 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

It never goes well when you disagree with me.

If you're looking for a guy to bench Allen for Trubisky he's your man

[Royale with Cheese]

12 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

If you're looking for a guy to bench Allen for Trubisky he's your man

 

I'm pretty sure Allen is better than Tua....so is Trubisky.  So is Fromm.

[LeGOATski]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

From what I understand, when he was with the Pats, they ran a lot of 4-3.

Plus, I think a good coach is a good coach.  When Dick LeBeau was here, we ran a 4-3 and he was a lifetime 3-4 defense with the Steelers and Bengals.

That's correct from what I've read. Flores can run any defense, I think. He may have a preference, but his players drive the scheme.

 

I would be excited if he was the replacement to Leslie, if he were to leave.

[ColoradoBills]

Unless Miami had all the picks as "conditional" they would be crazy to trade for him before the legal stuff is done.

 

It seems to me the more deals that are done between these 2 teams the worse they get.

They should block each others phone numbers.

[DCOrange]

1 hour ago, Miyagi-Do Karate said:

The only team that can trade for Watson is the Dolphins. They are the only team with the draft capital and also the QB need. They have like 13 picks over the next two years, including two 1st rounders in 2023. 
 

But if you are Dolphins, how do you structure a deal to hedge the legal risks of Watson? I don’t think you can. 

I disagree but Miami does seem like the most likely landing spot to me. I know Schefter was saying a month or so ago that Philly was the front runner though.

[GunnerBill]

3 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

From what I understand, when he was with the Pats, they ran a lot of 4-3.

Plus, I think a good coach is a good coach.  When Dick LeBeau was here, we ran a 4-3 and he was a lifetime 3-4 defense with the Steelers and Bengals.

 

The Pats are very hybrid but they have reverted to more of a 3-4 again the past 3 or 4 seasons after being notionally a 4-3 base for the early part of the last decade. Belichick talked about it on that thing he did with Saban. 

[Doc]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

To be clear where I think Watson would have a case is if he is traded now and then suddenly suspended with no material change of circumstance. I am not sure that Rog has sufficient leeway to do that. He'd have to be able to explain to a court why his decision changed from "not suspended" to "suspended" and I am not sure "well he might actually play now" is sufficient. That is where I think the league is vulnerable. They are banking on him staying in Houston all year and being happy to sit. 

 

I don't think the NFL will allow him to be traded until the investigation at least is done and a decision is made on what to do with him.  What I'm saying is being inactive doesn't count towards being suspended, i.e. "time served." 

 

3 hours ago, NewEra said:

6-8 games, why?  If he’s guilty of sexually inappropriate behavior against 22 women….. I vote that he gets at least 2 years suspension if not lifetime.  If he was guilty of doing this to one woman, he might get a couple games.  22 women?  Idk, 6-8 games is like a get out of jail free card for him.  Not to mention that he’s been getting paid for sitting out.  Not sure why he isn’t in the exemption list by now.  
 

Its been a bad look for the nfl on how they’ve dealt with this situation to date imo.  If he’s found to be guilty giving him 6-8 games would be a blood stain in my eyes. 

 

I was just spit-balling that number of games.  If it's longer, all bets are off.

[BuffaloBills1998]

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2021/9/30/22701924/deshaun-watson-trade-rumors-eagles-chris-simms-jeffrey-lurie-texans-howie-roseman-jay-glazer-hurts Appears that the Eagles are back in the mix

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/platform/amp/2021/9/30/22701924/deshaun-watson-trade-rumors-eagles-chris-simms-jeffrey-lurie-texans-howie-roseman-jay-glazer-hurts Appears that the Eagles are back in the mix

 

More will be as well. 

[BuffaloBills1998]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

More will be as well. 

I doubt that. I think it’s just going to be between these two. They have the draft capital that other teams don’t have

[TheFunPolice]

Plus the Eagles and Dolphins could each send a former Alabama QB to Houston in the deal. 

 

I'm not sure who I'd rather have... Maybe Hurts?

Edited September 30, 2021 by TheFunPolice

[BuffaloBills1998]

3 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

More will be as well. 

Also I don’t think the NFL allows this trade to happen to either team until the investigation on him concludes. If this goes to a criminal trial then he will be released and blackballed. 

[Doc]

3 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

I doubt that. I think it’s just going to be between these two. They have the draft capital that other teams don’t have

 

The Giants also have the draft capital and could send Jones in the deal.  And looking at 2022, Miami only has 1-1st rounder.  I thought they had 2?

 

Just now, BuffaloBills1998 said:

Also I don’t think the NFL allows this trade to happen to either team until the investigation on him concludes. If this goes to a criminal trial then he will be released and blackballed. 

 

Yeah, said that a post before yours.  You might have missed it.

[TheFunPolice]

If it goes into the offseason a lot of teams will be interested and have capital. 

[GunnerBill]

19 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I don't think the NFL will allow him to be traded until the investigation at least is done and a decision is made on what to do with him.  What I'm saying is being inactive doesn't count towards being suspended, i.e. "time served." 

 

So how do they stop that? Again what is their justification for it. I think they'd be vulnerable in court on that basis as well.

[BuffaloBills1998]

4 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

The Giants also have the draft capital and could send Jones in the deal.  And looking at 2022, Miami only has 1-1st rounder.  I thought they had 2?

 

 

Yeah, said that a post before yours.  You might have missed it.

The giants are a mess and Watson already stated he won’t accept a trade to a rebuilding team, hence why the Jets pulled out during the off-season of last year. He has a no trade clause in his contract. So technically he gets to chose where he gets traded off to. And that’s IF he ever plays a down of football ever again. 

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

So how do they stop that? Again what is their justification for it. I think they'd be vulnerable in court on that basis as well.

No they wouldn’t. Cause Goddell can put him on his exempt list which would prevent a trade from happening. I think that’s why Miami and Philly haven’t pulled the trigger. They want to know what the NFL is going to do before they make their moves

[BuffaloBills1998]

8 minutes ago, TheFunPolice said:

If it goes into the offseason a lot of teams will be interested and have capital. 

But which teams? Washington doesn’t have the capital, JAX, Jets and NE already drafted their QBs as well as Chicago and San Francisco.  Denver has their eyes set on Rodgers for 22, Carolina has Darnold who’s playing at a passable Alex Smith type of level. So besides Miami and Philly who’s really going to join in? Who can?

[GunnerBill]

9 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

 

No they wouldn’t. Cause Goddell can put him on his exempt list which would prevent a trade from happening. I think that’s why Miami and Philly haven’t pulled the trigger. They want to know what the NFL is going to do before they make their moves

 

Goes back to my earlier point. What is the justification for putting him on the exempt list when a trade happens or is about to happen that isn't there for putting him on that list now? Unless something materially different changes in Watson's case he doesn't have a rationale. 

 

Goodell has a fair amount of leeway but he can't act irrationally as the ultimate arbiter. He can't say "well he is fine to play today if Houston selects him to but he can't play tomorrow if Miami trades for him" despite the situation relating to the allegations against him not changing. He would be extremely vulnerable to a finding of irrationality.

 

Edit: he should be on the exempt list right now. The NFL is winging it by not putting him on there. 

Edited September 30, 2021 by GunnerBill

[Doc]

38 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

So how do they stop that? Again what is their justification for it. I think they'd be vulnerable in court on that basis as well.

 

I depends on if Houston will fight having to wait until the investigation is over.  The demand is at its lowest right now and IMHO it's in their best interest to know what suspension, if any, Watson is facing before shipping him out at a discount because of uncertainty.  If anything, I think they tell the NFL to get the investigation done quick(ly).

 

37 minutes ago, BuffaloBills1998 said:

The giants are a mess and Watson already stated he won’t accept a trade to a rebuilding team, hence why the Jets pulled out during the off-season of last year. He has a no trade clause in his contract. So technically he gets to chose where he gets traded off to. And that’s IF he ever plays a down of football ever again. 

 

Miami isn't?  The NYC market is huge and while the Jets are in that market, the Giants are considered a premier organization while the Jets are considered terrible.

Edited September 30, 2021 by Doc

[BuffaloBills1998]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

I depends on if Houston will fight having to wait until the investigation is over.  The demand is at its lowest right now and IMHO it's in their best interest to know what suspension, if any, Watson is facing before shipping him out at a discount because of uncertainty. 

 

 

Miami isn't?  The NYC market is huge and while the Jets are in that market, the Giants are considered a premier organization while the Jets are considered terrible.

But again the Giants are in complete rebuild mode. Barkley might not be on that roster next year which means you’ll have no running game, no O Line and no WRS. If I’m Watson I’m staying far and away from the Giants organization. Plus the Manning’s have a lot of power on that franchise hence why Jones was drafted. I think Jones is going to be on that team for a while. Also the Giants don’t have the draft capital to compete against either Miami or Philly. And no Miami is not a total compete mess like the giants are

[Royale with Cheese]

1 hour ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The Pats are very hybrid but they have reverted to more of a 3-4 again the past 3 or 4 seasons after being notionally a 4-3 base for the early part of the last decade. Belichick talked about it on that thing he did with Saban. 

 

Flores was last with the Pats in 2018?  What did they run then?

[GoBills808]

2 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Flores was last with the Pats in 2018?  What did they run then?

We could see if Rick Dennison is available if you like