It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

Trumpers: Don't put that experimental FDA approved drug in my body. 

 

Trumpers in the hospital with Covid: Give me the experimental drug cocktail they gave Trump!

I don’t care about those people, never voted for the orange man and I’ve been vaccinated since April, but anyone who didn’t ponder about the unknowns of long term effects is dumb. 

Here are some other fda approved things you should  try: 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_withdrawn_drugs

Edited August 24, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Sundancer]

2 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I don’t care about those people, never voted for the orange man and I’ve been vaccinated since April, but anyone who didn’t ponder about the unknowns of long term effects is dumb. 

 

Had a skin infection a few months ago. Got a cream that didn't work and then some oral meds that did. Oral meds came out 4 years ago, I am sure were not given to billions of people to date. I took them without posting about it on a football board. Until now. 

 

Seems like most people listen to their doctors, until recent times when suddenly people believe they know better about vaccines and medications.  

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Sundancer

[Governor]

1 minute ago, Sundancer said:

 

Had a skin infection a few months ago. Got a cream that didn't work and then some oral meds that did. Oral meds came out 4 years ago, I am sure were not given to billions of people to date. I took them without posting about it on a football board. Until now. 

 

Seems like most people listen to their doctors, until recent times when suddenly people believe they know better about vaccines and medications.  

 

Was it ivermectin? I heard some use it for rosacea.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 minute ago, Sundancer said:

 

Had a skin infection a few months ago. Got a cream that didn't work and then some oral meds that did. Oral meds came out 4 years ago, I am sure were not given to billions of people to date. I took them without posting about it on a football board. Until now. 

 

Seems like most people listen to their doctors, until recent times when suddenly people believe they know better about vaccines and medications.  

 

How many mRNA vaccines have you had? 

[Sundancer]

Just now, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

How many mRNA vaccines have you had? 

 

1. And that's my point. I listened to my doctor with the new oral medicine and with the mRNA vaccine. 

 

How many of the 35% of Americans who are avoiding the vaccine are following their doctor's advice? 

2 minutes ago, Governor said:

Was it ivermectin? I heard some use it for rosacea.

 

Never heard of that. 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

6 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

Trumpers: Don't put that experimental FDA approved drug in my body. 

 

Trumpers in the hospital with Covid: Give me the experimental drug cocktail they gave Trump!

This is silly, SunnyD. 

 

The numbers suggest that tens of millions of Trump supporters are vaxxed, that tens of millions of those who supported Biden (or not) are not.  

 

I think most of the vax hesitant simply say "I'm not convinced the vax is necessary in my case, and since it's not a federally mandated vaxxine, I'll decline.". 

 

The real problem here is that Biden has chosen an inconvenient time, pandemically speaking, to try and thread the needle between requiring vaccinations for all (save those that the vax would do harm to) and keeping his vax-hesitant voting bloc intact and happy.   

 

In this regard, he's weak, feeble, old and his decisions as CIC are the cost in loss of life is staggering.  This is what happens when you put an establishment polly in the WH.  

[Governor]

1 minute ago, leh-nerd skin-erd said:

This is silly, SunnyD. 

 

The numbers suggest that tens of millions of Trump supporters are vaxxed, that tens of millions of those who supported Biden (or not) are not.  

 

I think most of the vax hesitant simply say "I'm not convinced the vax is necessary in my case, and since it's not a federally mandated vaxxine, I'll decline.". 

 

The real problem here is that Biden has chosen an inconvenient time, pandemically speaking, to try and thread the needle between requiring vaccinations for all (save those that the vax would do harm to) and keeping his vax-hesitant voting bloc intact and happy.   

 

In this regard, he's weak, feeble, old and his decisions as CIC are the cost in loss of life is staggering.  This is what happens when you put an establishment polly in the WH.  

Doesn’t appear to be the case but impressive gymnastics. I score it a 10.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

5 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

Had a skin infection a few months ago. Got a cream that didn't work and then some oral meds that did. Oral meds came out 4 years ago, I am sure were not given to billions of people to date. I took them without posting about it on a football board. Until now. 

 

Seems like most people listen to their doctors, until recent times when suddenly people believe they know better about vaccines and medications.  

 

My whole family is doctors, in pharma, work with FDA, NIH, run a pharma pipeline company etc. Them and every other medical professional I know and discuss these things with regularly acknowledge: 

1) long term is absolutely unknown because there is no data. that’s science. Risk seems low, but we don’t know what we haven’t measured. 

2) the mRNA is completely new technology never before used (pfeizer and Moderna) they were trying to get this to work without success for two decades

3) even j&j app vaccine used a technology that probably hasn’t gone into anyone’s arms here in the us until now

4)  vaccines typically take a lot longer to develop and trail and approve than 3 these have.

5) long term implications typically take years to come to light 
 

Yes most smart people research and educate themselves on these things as opposed to blindly believing their PCP because they were good at memorizing webmd and have a white coat. 😆 

[leh-nerd skin-erd]

10 minutes ago, Governor said:

Doesn’t appear to be the case but impressive gymnastics. I score it a 10.

Oh, it’s the case Jerry. 
 

 

[BillStime]

 

[BillStime]

Good  -  screw Comrade DeSantis

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

21 minutes ago, Governor said:

Doesn’t appear to be the case but impressive gymnastics. I score it a 10.

Bloomberg data seems more comprehensive but contradictory to a number of these findings. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/us-vaccine-demographics.html

 

not surprising the Biden sheep line up for whatever big brother tells them nor surprising the trump sheep are rebelling against the man. That’s the state of those two cults. 

[Governor]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Bloomberg data seems more comprehensive but contradictory to a number of these findings. 

 

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/us-vaccine-demographics.html

 

not surprising the Biden sheep line up for whatever big brother tells them nor surprising the trump sheep are rebelling against the man. That’s the state of those two cults. 

It’s a freakin vaccine!!!!

 

It’s not political. That’s week old data.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Governor

[Chef Jim]

15 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Good  -  screw Comrade DeSantis

 

 

 

They are actually defying Biden too aren't they?  

[B-Man]

3 minutes ago, Governor said:

 

It’s not political. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Governor]

4 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those are only political statements to people that are extremely political during a public health crisis.

 

People should know when you’re supposed to put the gloves down and be an American and when to play politics.

 

That’s missing from your cult.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Governor

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

14 minutes ago, Governor said:

Those are only political statements to people that are extremely political during a public health crisis.

 

People should know when you’re supposed to put the gloves down and be an American and when to play politics.

 

That’s missing from your cult.

So your claiming his cult is politicizing covid but you cult isn’t? That’s the inference here??

 

😂 

[BillStime]

Mandate it

 

 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, BillStime said:

Mandate it

 

 

 

Why?  I guarantee he'll be back to his fighting weight in no time.  

[Governor]

46 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

So your claiming his cult is politicizing covid but you cult isn’t? That’s the inference here??

 

😂

I now hold the moral high ground over most of you and that’s been the problem all along hasn’t it? 
 

You nominated a fat, bankrupt, racist, slob to be your nominee.

 

Did you think the country would forget that in a year? 
 

Governor is spitting some hard truths today. I do have brief moments of clarity from time to time.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Governor

[Chef Jim]

11 minutes ago, Governor said:

I now hold the moral high ground over most of you and that’s been the problem all along hasn’t it? 
 

You nominated a fat, bankrupt, racist, slob to be your nominee.

 

Did you think the country would forget that in a year? 
 

Governor is spitting some hard truths today. I do have brief moments of clarity from time to time.

 

Fat = Fact

Bankrupt = he's has filed but that doesn't make him bankrupt.

Slob = depends on your definition

Racist = Quite the damning insinuation.  Proof?

 

Hard truths?  Yeah you're spitting alright. 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

My whole family is doctors, in pharma, work with FDA, NIH, run a pharma pipeline company etc. Them and every other medical professional I know and discuss these things with regularly acknowledge: 

1) long term is absolutely unknown because there is no data. that’s science. Risk seems low, but we don’t know what we haven’t measured. 

2) the mRNA is completely new technology never before used (pfeizer and Moderna) they were trying to get this to work without success for two decades

3) even j&j app vaccine used a technology that probably hasn’t gone into anyone’s arms here in the us until now

4)  vaccines typically take a lot longer to develop and trail and approve than 3 these have.

5) long term implications typically take years to come to light 
 

Yes most smart people research and educate themselves on these things as opposed to blindly believing their PCP because they were good at memorizing webmd and have a white coat. 😆 

Perhaps they can provide insights on a couple other questions from clinical and medical professional perspective.

 

1. If vaccinated people are "safe" is there anything medically valid about being afraid of un-vaccinated people infecting them? 

2. Given what I understand is fact, that vaccinated people can carry a viral load capable of spreading the infection, what is the difference in risk between contacting an infected vaccinated person or an un-vaccinated infected person?

 

 

 

[BillStime]

19 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Why?  I guarantee he'll be back to his fighting weight in no time.  

 

Why should we exacerbate our medical infrastructure and services because people are sharing disinformation discouraging people from getting vaccinated?

 

[Chef Jim]

Just now, All_Pro_Bills said:

Perhaps they can provide insights on a couple other questions from clinical and medical professional perspective.

 

1. If vaccinated people are "safe" is there anything medically valid about being afraid of un-vaccinated people infecting them? 

2. Given what I understand is fact, that vaccinated people can carry a viral load capable of spreading the infection, what is the difference in risk between contacting an infected vaccinated person or an un-vaccinated infected person?

 

 

 

 

It appears that vaccinated people are more of a threat to non-vaccinated people than the other way around no? 

Just now, BillStime said:

 

Why should we exacerbate our medical infrastructure and services because people are sharing disinformation discouraging people from getting vaccinated?

 

 

I don't think you know what the word exacerbate means.  LOL.  

[BillStime]

11 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

I don't think you know what the word exacerbate means.  LOL.  

 

Look it up

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, BillStime said:

 

Look it up

 

No need to Illiterate boy. 

[Big Blitz]

13 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Perhaps they can provide insights on a couple other questions from clinical and medical professional perspective.

 

1. If vaccinated people are "safe" is there anything medically valid about being afraid of un-vaccinated people infecting them? 

2. Given what I understand is fact, that vaccinated people can carry a viral load capable of spreading the infection, what is the difference in risk between contacting an infected vaccinated person or an un-vaccinated infected person?

 

 

 

 

 

 

They won't answer this.  

 

They have no answer that doesn't invalidate vaccine mandates.   

 

What are we vaccinating them against?  Covid  or Delta? 

 

Why do we need boosters in 8 months? 

 

How often we going to need them? 

 

 

 

I got vaccinated to get out of my mask.  

 

They lied about that and everything else.  

 

It's not just about long and short term safety of the vaccine.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

12 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Perhaps they can provide insights on a couple other questions from clinical and medical professional perspective.

 

1. If vaccinated people are "safe" is there anything medically valid about being afraid of un-vaccinated people infecting them? 

2. Given what I understand is fact, that vaccinated people can carry a viral load capable of spreading the infection, what is the difference in risk between contacting an infected vaccinated person or an un-vaccinated infected person?

 

 

 

1) well sure, an unvaccinated person who contracts covid, could then pass it to a vaccinated person who then experiences an improbable breakthrough case which even if it occurs is expected to be mild at worst. 
 

Also, Covid is never going to be eliminated just like the flu or common cold. 

 

2) I don’t believe there is conclusive data on  viral load variance of the two populations. But I will ask around 
 

 

[Doc Brown]

21 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Perhaps they can provide insights on a couple other questions from clinical and medical professional perspective.

 

1. If vaccinated people are "safe" is there anything medically valid about being afraid of un-vaccinated people infecting them? 

2. Given what I understand is fact, that vaccinated people can carry a viral load capable of spreading the infection, what is the difference in risk between contacting an infected vaccinated person or an un-vaccinated infected person?

 

1.)  No.

 

 

2.)  They don't know at this point.

 

[Big Blitz]

 

 

 

How long will this jab last?

 

8 weeks?

 

8 months?

 

 

You told me in March I did my job.  

[dpberr]

On 8/23/2021 at 2:51 PM, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Do tell… 

I apologize for calling you a fool.  That wasn't cool on my part.

 

FD:  Suffered a debilitating, nearly fatal GBS attack from my one (and only) flu shot 20+ years ago that I took because I thought it was a good idea to get a flu shot.  I battle its chronic beast of a cousin to this day.  GBS treatment is extraordinarily expensive. One course of the primary treatment is about $50,000.  My inpatient stay was $750,000.   Over my two decades of treating it, I've estimated my insurance companies have spent at least $10-15 million dollars.  

 

Modern medicine has yet to identify what ultimately ignites the initial attack.  There's nothing in particular waiting inside your body for the day you decide to do something to turn it on.  You can't test for it, there's no particular group of proteins or cells that form to cause it. There's nothing to kill, nothing to target.  

 

I've been asked if I'm an anti-vaxxer.  I don't think I am.  I had all the vaccinations up until that point.  I don't fault or judge  people for taking any vaccine they choose to take. My biggest issue is that absolutely nobody accepts any liability whatsoever for covax injuries in the United States, and I think that's wrong.  How can a product have no liability along the entire chain of custody?  People get injured by these products and can sue no one, and have to pay their own attorney's fees and fight a bureaucrat who will gaslight them and fight their pittance of a payout.  They can't even get a day in court under the regulations of the PREP Act.  

[oldmanfan]

3 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

No it’s not. Are you seriously suggesting there is no merit to at least questioning long term effects of putting something man made in your body ??
 

Especially a brand new type of vaccine made in a completely different way than any other vaccine ever? 

 

Have you ever seen this?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_withdrawn_drugs

 

only Athena completely ignorant wouldn’t acknowledge that the long term effect of something like this is unknown, even if the risk decision is made overwhelmingly to get it. 

Let me clarify.  The long term side effect thing is a straw man because the anti-vax crowd is saying there will be, as if it is pre-ordained.  It is not, and the history of vaccinations and the biology of the mRNA vaccines indicate long term side effects are very, very , very small.  I have already explained the biology of the mRNA approach.  There is nothing in these vaccines that will stay in the body for long, and certainly nothing that would cause an adverse long term effect.  To suggest there would be you would have to offer a cogent argument based on the actual biology and pharmacogrnics of the vaccine.  No one has done so, because they can’t.

 

Some drugs, very few luckily, have had unforeseen side effects even after FDA approval.  But these generally work through different biochemical pathways than vaccines.

1 hour ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

They won't answer this.  

 

They have no answer that doesn't invalidate vaccine mandates.   

 

What are we vaccinating them against?  Covid  or Delta? 

 

Why do we need boosters in 8 months? 

 

How often we going to need them? 

 

 

 

I got vaccinated to get out of my mask.  

 

They lied about that and everything else.  

 

It's not just about long and short term safety of the vaccine.  

Delta is Covid.  It is a variant of the original virus that mutated.  There is no reason to answer your other questions because I don’t think you have an adequate comprehension of science to allow you to grasp the concepts.

 

Thanks for doing your part and getting vaccinated.

[Big Blitz]

In essence, both Dr. Andrew Pollard (Director of the U.K. Oxford Vaccine Group), and Dr. Malone state that variants of the COVID-19 virus will continue to spread throughout the population regardless of vaccine status; and the virus will continue to evolve into more infectious but less deadly or pathogenic strains.

 

There simply is no way to vaccinate the population and stop the spread of COVID variants, because the vaccinated will contract and spread the virus just like the non-vaccinated.  The vaccine approach should be targeted to the elderly and those most at risk.

 

Specific to the position of Dr. Malone – given the untested nature of the vaccine itself; no one knows the long-term side-effects; the benefit of the vaccine should be weighed against the individual’s current health status.  Elderly populations with lower immune responses should be the target for vaccination; they are the most at risk.  However, younger -less at risk- individuals will likely benefit more from therapeutic treatment after exposure *if* they experience any symptoms at all.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/pfizer-just-got-full-fda-approval-its-covid-vaccine-theres-just-one-thing

 

 

Or of course, if you want it.

 

We have gone completely off the rails.   

 

Everyone but DeSantis who is actually focusing on both treatments and the vaccine.  

 

 

 

A vaccine which per the article and the NPR report embedded (you'll call Zero Hedge Fake News) that the trial that led to FDA approval was essentially rigged to get the result they wanted.  

 

 

And that Pfizer is releasing Comirnity - sp? (this is what they will be calling the yet to be released vaccine - and it is apparently not protected from liability. 

 

Per Dr. Malone (not a Twitter Doctor like Fauci):

 

 

18 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Let me clarify.  The long term side effect thing is a straw man because the anti-vax crowd is saying there will be, as if it is pre-ordained.  It is not, and the history of vaccinations and the biology of the mRNA vaccines indicate long term side effects are very, very , very small.  I have already explained the biology of the mRNA approach.  There is nothing in these vaccines that will stay in the body for long, and certainly nothing that would cause an adverse long term effect.  To suggest there would be you would have to offer a cogent argument based on the actual biology and pharmacogrnics of the vaccine.  No one has done so, because they can’t.

 

Some drugs, very few luckily, have had unforeseen side effects even after FDA approval.  But these generally work through different biochemical pathways than vaccines.

Delta is Covid.  It is a variant of the original virus that mutated.  There is no reason to answer your other questions because I don’t think you have an adequate comprehension of science to allow you to grasp the concepts.

 

Thanks for doing your part and getting vaccinated.

 

 

 

No I don't that's why I'm asking.  

 

So please explain to everyone else here that is far more versed in science then me.   

 

 

"Why do we need boosters in 8 months?"

 

"How often we going to need them?"

[Sundancer]

2 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Why?  I guarantee he'll be back to his fighting weight in no time.  

Maybe yes maybe not. And it’s only possibly yes After his 60-day hospital stay when the hospital could have been caring for other people instead some unvaccinated douche? 
 

Thankfully you’re committed to dying of Covid at home right? 

[Big Blitz]

2 hours ago, BillStime said:

Mandate it

 

 

 

 

 

He was still 57 years old.  Sorry that alone is a risk factor.  Unfortunate but that's a fact no matter fitness level at 57.  

[Chef Jim]

11 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

Maybe yes maybe not. And it’s only possibly yes After his 60-day hospital stay when the hospital could have been caring for other people instead some unvaccinated douche? 
 

Thankfully you’re committed to dying of Covid at home right? 

Oh he’s a douche?   
 

Why would you want me to die at home? 

[oldmanfan]

26 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

In essence, both Dr. Andrew Pollard (Director of the U.K. Oxford Vaccine Group), and Dr. Malone state that variants of the COVID-19 virus will continue to spread throughout the population regardless of vaccine status; and the virus will continue to evolve into more infectious but less deadly or pathogenic strains.

 

There simply is no way to vaccinate the population and stop the spread of COVID variants, because the vaccinated will contract and spread the virus just like the non-vaccinated.  The vaccine approach should be targeted to the elderly and those most at risk.

 

Specific to the position of Dr. Malone – given the untested nature of the vaccine itself; no one knows the long-term side-effects; the benefit of the vaccine should be weighed against the individual’s current health status.  Elderly populations with lower immune responses should be the target for vaccination; they are the most at risk.  However, younger -less at risk- individuals will likely benefit more from therapeutic treatment after exposure *if* they experience any symptoms at all.

 

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/pfizer-just-got-full-fda-approval-its-covid-vaccine-theres-just-one-thing

 

 

Or of course, if you want it.

 

We have gone completely off the rails.   

 

Everyone but DeSantis who is actually focusing on both treatments and the vaccine.  

 

 

 

A vaccine which per the article and the NPR report embedded (you'll call Zero Hedge Fake News) that the trial that led to FDA approval was essentially rigged to get the result they wanted.  

 

 

And that Pfizer is releasing Comirnity - sp? (this is what they will be calling the yet to be released vaccine - and it is apparently not protected from liability. 

 

Per Dr. Malone (not a Twitter Doctor like Fauci):

 

 

 

 

 

No I don't that's why I'm asking.  

 

So please explain to everyone else here that is far more versed in science then me.   

 

 

"Why do we need boosters in 8 months?"

 

"How often we going to need them?"

The booster is to up your immune system, and with the mRNA virus they can modify it quickly to hit new variants.  Covid is the most harmful virus we’ve seen in years.  We may not completely eradicate it but we can mitigate its effects strongly through vaccination.

 

The folks you quoted are correct that as viruses mutate more they become less harmful and spread less.  That does not appear to have happened with the delta variant, let’s hope that changes.

Edited August 24, 2021 by oldmanfan

[Big Blitz]

No.  Not good enough.

 

 

 

 

“As we get into the spring, we could start getting back to a degree of normality, namely resuming the things that we were hoping we could do, restaurants, theaters, that kind of thing,” Fauci said during an interview on CNN’s “Anderson Cooper 360.”

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/24/cdc-study-shows-unvaccinated-people-are-29-times-more-likely-to-be-hospitalized-with-covid.html

 

 

He just kept 50 million people on the sidelines.  

 

 

You lunatics don't get it. 

[Sundancer]

1 hour ago, Chef Jim said:

Oh he’s a douche?   
 

Why would you want me to die at home? 

 

You're making the choice to burden the hospital system unnecessarily if you get sick from Covid. You want to be self sufficient and strong--die at home. 

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

You're making the choice to burden the hospital system unnecessarily if you get sick from Covid. You want to be self sufficient and strong--die at home. 

How have I made the choice to burden the hospitals?