It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[OrangeBills]

10 hours ago, JaCrispy said:

Was the vaccine ever intended to stop the contracting/spread of the virus? 
 

I always thought the vaccine was only intended to mitigate symptoms...

 

And, if the vaccine was never intended to stop the contracting/spread of the virus, why is it labeled as a “breakthrough” if it is contracted?

 

Just kind of seems like word manipulation to me to create a narrative about the vaccine that may not be true...

 

Honest questions and thoughts...feel free to correct me if I’m wrong...

 

Societal control requires shifting definitions and expectations around these things.  

 

Truth would mean freedom and "things happen", but Democrats/Liberals/Socialists despise people doing things independently and becoming successful or having fun. 

 

Therefore they constantly move goalposts through a willing, subservient Media apparatus

[oldmanfan]

21 minutes ago, Bockeye said:

You seriously aren’t concerned or alarmed that organizations are taking down past research to push the mask narrative? At least don’t think it’s a little odd or even subversive?

 

It’s not 10x deadlier. Good grief!

Yes it is.  In the worst, the worst, year of flu in the past decade there were about 80k deaths in the US.  The average over the past decade is about 30-40k.  Covid has killed almost 650 k people in the US so far.  You are completely and totally wrong, and I don't know if that's just because you haven't had the education to understand the data, or because you willfully choose to ignore the data.  Again, the amount of ignorance on this board is staggering.

8 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Societal control requires shifting definitions and expectations around these things.  

 

Truth would mean freedom and "things happen", but Democrats/Liberals/Socialists despise people doing things independently and becoming successful or having fun. 

 

Therefore they constantly move goalposts through a willing, subservient Media apparatus

I am Independent, but I'll make you a deal.  You Trumpists (because you're not Republican by any stretch of the imagination) find a place (South Dakota seems appropriate, or Texas), all move there, all spread the virus among yourselves, and let Darwin work.  

30 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Like all other viruses, the potential for severe illness and death depends on your personal risk profile including the presence or absence of specific co-morbidities and health issues.  Even in younger people.  So the 10x number might be misleading and COVID death rates are skewed towards the elderly on the age curve.  Every person needs to make a sensible assessment for themselves and the members of their families with the assistance of their physician.       

 

But for COVID-19, the use of medical knowledge and facts applied by professionals like doctors and researchers has been suspended while scientific debate and discovery has been suppressed and discouraged.  And replaced by credentialed idiots and politicians making mostly arbitrary and subjective decisions enforced by threats of violence and penalties.  While not providing a lot of information or insights into the policy and then changing it at their whim again without any explanation.  Not exactly a policy aligned with the concept of positive reinforcement.  And not seeming to take into account the impact of these policies on any other aspect of life.  A policy best described as "shut up and do what we say or else".

 

I'm not opposed to vaccination or mandates or some form of rational public health policies.  When they make clear medical sense and in the context of accounting for other factors, benefits,  and consequences.  But what I am opposed to is all the petty dictators that are popping up in Mayors and Governors issuing edicts and proclamations through self-provided authority.  Rather than executive or administrative  edicts this requires some open and rational debate among members of city councils and State legislatures (and the national level if needed) hearing all views and listening to medical experts from all perspectives rather than all these mini-Hitlers threatening anyone that doesn't toe their line.    

 

What needs to be done and what should have been done from the get-go is to follow the recommendations of the public health officials who have made it their life's work to understand how to combat pandemics.  

[OrangeBills]

1 hour ago, oldmanfan said:

It is 10 times deadlier than flu.  The amount of ignorance on this board is staggering.

 

Absolutely not 10x deadlier.  The flu mortality rates are actually estimates based on assumptions using extrapolations and guesses.  They don't test for the Flu like they do COVID so the data sets are completely incomparable.

 

1)  that 600,000 death count is horrifically wrong, and comes over a 19 month period at this point;  2)  your denominator for who's had COVID is way too finite to compare with Flu

[oldmanfan]

15 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Absolutely not 10x deadlier.  The flu mortality rates are actually estimates based on assumptions using extrapolations and guesses.  They don't test for the Flu like they do COVID so the data sets are completely incomparable.

 

1)  that 600,000 death count is horrifically wrong, and comes over a 19 month period at this point;  2)  your denominator for who's had COVID is way too finite to compare with Flu

Bull crap.  Absolute and total bull crap.  The over 600,000 deaths from Covid are valid, and if anything the number is probably low because of folks early on who died from it but were not diagnosed with Covid because they weren't able to be tested.  If you're going to be one of those mouth breathers who say that there are only 6000 people who have died from Covid don't waste my time or anyone else's around here, because at that point it would be clear you have no clue, and don't want to have a clue.

 

And while flu is not tested for perhaps as extensively as for Covid, there is in fact a test for the flu that is run when you present with the classic and well understood symptoms of flu that are well understood by physicians.   As for the denominator, if you want to extrapolate out for 19 months of flu, taking the data from the CDC on flu rates over the past decade it would be on average around 50,00 deaths, again still 10 times or more less than Covid.  

 

Covid has killed and will kill a lot more people, hopefully fewer as we get more and more people vaccinated, and hopefully as the virus continues mutating its ability to kill will decrease as is seen in many viral outbreaks, i.e. the more the mutation the less the effectiveness.  Meanwhile we should be doing everything we can to beat this thing, because not only is it killing people but there are long term morbidity effects that everyone ignores, but will be significant.  But instead we have science deniers all around the country, and we see them on this board, who would rather have people die and suffer so they can play their ridiculous political games.  

[oldmanfan]

Following up, here are the data from the CDC on estimated mortality rates (with ranges) rates from influenza:

 

Table 1: Estimated Influenza Disease Burden, by Season — United States, 2010-11 through 2019-20 Influenza Seasons

 

2010-2011 37,000(32,000 – 51,000)

2011-20129 12,000(11,000 – 23,000)

2012-2013 43,000(37,000 – 57,000)

2013-2014 38,000(33,000 – 50,000)

2014-2015 51,000(44,000 – 64,000)

2015-2016 23,000(17,000 – 35,000)

2016-2017 38,000(29,00-61,000)

2017-2018 61,000 (45,000-95,000)

2018-2019:  34,000 (26,000-53,000)

2019-2020:  22,000 (18,000-29,000)

 

[OrangeBills]

2 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Bull crap.  Absolute and total bull crap.  The over 600,000 deaths from Covid are valid, and if anything the number is probably low because of folks early on who died from it but were not diagnosed with Covid because they weren't able to be tested.  If you're going to be one of those mouth breathers who say that there are only 6000 people who have died from Covid don't waste my time or anyone else's around here, because at that point it would be clear you have no clue, and don't want to have a clue.

 

And while flu is not tested for perhaps as extensively as for Covid, there is in fact a test for the flu that is run when you present with the classic and well understood symptoms of flu that are well understood by physicians.   As for the denominator, if you want to extrapolate out for 19 months of flu, taking the data from the CDC on flu rates over the past decade it would be on average around 50,00 deaths, again still 10 times or more less than Covid.  

 

Covid has killed and will kill a lot more people, hopefully fewer as we get more and more people vaccinated, and hopefully as the virus continues mutating its ability to kill will decrease as is seen in many viral outbreaks, i.e. the more the mutation the less the effectiveness.  Meanwhile we should be doing everything we can to beat this thing, because not only is it killing people but there are long term morbidity effects that everyone ignores, but will be significant.  But instead we have science deniers all around the country, and we see them on this board, who would rather have people die and suffer so they can play their ridiculous political games.  

 

I'm afraid you're misunderstanding this.  After 100 years, there is no hard Flu data...the Flu deaths are an evolving estimate that comes in a range, it's not "80,000", it's 65k-90k or some such thing.  And they formulate it 18 months after, and it pertains to the 4 month "flu season", not some 20 month time-frame.  To grapple with an incidence rate they take test data and guess and extrapolate and assume to come up with the denominator...so a 0.1% mortality rate on 80,000 Flu deaths implies that 80m people "had the flu", when in reality they have tested like 12m-24m people positive in a given year and used population meta-data to determine the incident rate.  

 

Here is the link that describes how your JHU 600,000 number was derived, don't take it from me:  How the Johns Hopkins coronavirus tracker was built -- and what it tells us - The Washington Post

 

The JHU tracker was created overnight using some web-scraping and assumptions.  There was no hard-definition of a "Covid-death", BUT in a period of evaporating Hospital revenues & profits due to the suspension of other treatments, there were guaranteed payments for treating COVID victims and deaths.  

 

COVID-19 is an unfortunate disease that results from novel virus that is not that much different from all the others we've seen.  But it's irresponsible to act like this data hasn't been massaged, over 20 months, to fit a narrative.  The article above on the JHU COVID Tracker's formation literally describes how it was created to tell a story about inequity

 

So the net of these numbers is, the annual Flu deaths would be under-counted relative to a COVID number, because they aren't actively seeking Flu deaths (nobody dies "from the Flu" just like nobody dies "from COVID"), the COVID deaths are certainly exacerbated (I only know 3 people who died "from COVID", not one of which did, two of them had feeding tubes removed already in hospice for cryin' out loud), and the incidence rate of the Flu is an extrapolated guess while they're using hard, testing data on COVID to determine its' incidence rate...at the moment anyway, they'll eventually declare that 280m people had COVID since it was so transmissable.

 

 

 

 

[Chef Jim]

32 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Bull crap.  Absolute and total bull crap.  The over 600,000 deaths from Covid are valid,

I read no further.  You’ve been had Old Man. 

[oldmanfan]

13 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

I'm afraid you're misunderstanding this.  After 100 years, there is no hard Flu data...the Flu deaths are an evolving estimate that comes in a range, it's not "80,000", it's 65k-90k or some such thing.  And they formulate it 18 months after, and it pertains to the 4 month "flu season", not some 20 month time-frame.  To grapple with an incidence rate they take test data and guess and extrapolate and assume to come up with the denominator...so a 0.1% mortality rate on 80,000 Flu deaths implies that 80m people "had the flu", when in reality they have tested like 12m-24m people positive in a given year and used population meta-data to determine the incident rate.  

 

Here is the link that describes how your JHU 600,000 number was derived, don't take it from me:  How the Johns Hopkins coronavirus tracker was built -- and what it tells us - The Washington Post

 

The JHU tracker was created overnight using some web-scraping and assumptions.  There was no hard-definition of a "Covid-death", BUT in a period of evaporating Hospital revenues & profits due to the suspension of other treatments, there were guaranteed payments for treating COVID victims and deaths.  

 

COVID-19 is an unfortunate disease that results from novel virus that is not that much different from all the others we've seen.  But it's irresponsible to act like this data hasn't been massaged, over 20 months, to fit a narrative.  The article above on the JHU COVID Tracker's formation literally describes how it was created to tell a story about inequity

 

So the net of these numbers is, the annual Flu deaths would be under-counted relative to a COVID number, because they aren't actively seeking Flu deaths (nobody dies "from the Flu" just like nobody dies "from COVID"), the COVID deaths are certainly exacerbated (I only know 3 people who died "from COVID", not one of which did, two of them had feeding tubes removed already in hospice for cryin' out loud), and the incidence rate of the Flu is an extrapolated guess while they're using hard, testing data on COVID to determine its' incidence rate...at the moment anyway, they'll eventually declare that 280m people had COVID since it was so transmissable.

 

 

 

 

Do not insult the over 600,000 people that have died from Covid by trotting out the argument that they are exacerbated.  If you are one of those who want to say that only 6k died from Covid because that was the only thing on their death certificate, that is an insult not only to the over 600k that have died but to all the health care providers that have given everything they have to take care of them.

 

I work for a big health care organization.  If we conflated death certificates, if we made up false diagnoses to upcharge for Covid, not only would that be an unethical thing that our CEO would not countenance, he would not countenance it because the amount of fines and such we would incur would be such that we'd have to close.  

 

Continuing, to suggest that no one really dies from the flu or from Covid is ridiculous that I don't know where to start.  I teach medical physiology, and one of the things I teach my students is that ultimately what causes death is that your heart stops.  The questions is what causes your heart to stop.  In the flu, it is because your ability to breathe, and thus take in oxygen, is so depleted that not enough oxygen is delivered to the heart muscle so the heart stops functioning.  In Covid, the pathology reports all show that there is extensive damage to the lining of your capillaries in the lungs and elsewhere and in the alveoli; these events again cause lack of oxygen to the tissues and organs, your heart stops, you die.  To suggest no one really dies from either the flu or Covid is so sophmoric it defies explanation.

 

I have over 40 year's experience in medical and scientific research.  I understand this very well.

 

  

3 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

I read no further.  You’ve been had Old Man. 

You ae a fool.  A complete and utter fool.  Let's take someone with Stage 2 diabetes that gets Covid.  Up until Covid their disease is managed by medications and diet.  But then Covid hits.  The underlying pathology of diabetes is that it is a vascular disorder.  The elevated blood glucose levels alter the endothelial lining of you blood vessels, especially the smallest blood vessels or capillaries.  That is one reason why kidenty disease is a common complication of diabetes.

 

But you're managing you diabetes, and then you get Covid.  As stated above, Covid wreaks havoc on the lining of blood vessels and the lining of your lungs,.  so now the diease that you had controlled is no longer such.  Your kidneys start to fail.  Other organ systems start to fail because of inadequate oxygen supply.  And eventually you die.   Ot because of your diabetes, because you were dealing with that.  But because the virus threw in a monkey wrench that you could not overcome.  This is why Covid deaths occur in a lot of people with co-morbidities, becuase while they can handle on control thos eco-morbidities, Covid puts it over the top.

 

That is how this works.  I don't expect you to understand, because the bottom line is you don't want to understand.  You want people to die. You want people to die because you think this is about politics and not people.  

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by oldmanfan

[OrangeBills]

9 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

Do not insult the over 600,000 people that have died from Covid by trotting out the argument that they are exacerbated.  If you are one of those who want to say that only 6k died from Covid because that was the only thing on their death certificate, that is an insult not only to the over 600k that have died but to all the health care providers that have given everything they have to take care of them.

 

I work for a big health care organization.  If we conflated death certificates, if we made up false diagnoses to upcharge for Covid, not only would that be an unethical thing that our CEO would not countenance, he would not countenance it because the amount of fines and such we would incur would be such that we'd have to close.  

 

Continuing, to suggest that no one really dies from the flu or from Covid is ridiculous that I don't know where to start.  I teach medical physiology, and one of the things I teach my students is that ultimately what causes death is that your heart stops.  The questions is what causes your heart to stop.  In the flu, it is because your ability to breathe, and thus take in oxygen, is so depleted that not enough oxygen is delivered to the heart muscle so the heart stops functioning.  In Covid, the pathology reports all show that there is extensive damage to the lining of your capillaries in the lungs and elsewhere and in the alveoli; these events again cause lack of oxygen to the tissues and organs, your heart stops, you die.  To suggest no one really dies from either the flu or Covid is so sophmoric it defies explanation.

 

I have over 40 year's experience in medical and scientific research.  I understand this very well.

 

  

You ae a fool.  A complete and utter fool.  

 

Stop taking umbrage and making false narratives, noone is demeaning the unfortunate demise of anyone, nor suggesting Healthcare workers don't deserve respect.    

 

My industry has all kinds of rules & regulations also, guess what, they get broken all the time.  That's why every industry has an enforcement arm attendant to it.

 

I have a specific experience, where instead of amputating his father's 2nd leg due to late-stage diabetes, a friend made the difficult decision, along with his brother, to remove life support and enter Hospice.  I remember vividly because he was on the phone with his brother, and when they hung up we shared a hug, because it was a very difficult moment for him.  9-10 days later or so his father died, as expected.  Cause of Death?  COVID.  In the Obit, and according to my friend, on the Certificate.  

 

Now this will be brushed aside as just an anecdote, but that's no different than all the anecdotes we've heard from the other direction on this topic.  If you don't think Hospitals were chasing the Fed govt's money for COVID to plug budgetary holes, I don't know what to tell you.

 

 

 

[oldmanfan]

5 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Stop taking umbrage and making false narratives, noone is demeaning the unfortunate demise of anyone, nor suggesting Healthcare workers don't deserve respect.    

 

My industry has all kinds of rules & regulations also, guess what, they get broken all the time.  That's why every industry has an enforcement arm attendant to it.

 

I have a specific experience, where instead of amputating his father's 2nd leg due to late-stage diabetes, a friend made the difficult decision, along with his brother, to remove life support and enter Hospice.  I remember vividly because he was on the phone with his brother, and when they hung up we shared a hug, because it was a very difficult moment for him.  9-10 days later or so his father died, as expected.  Cause of Death?  COVID.  In the Obit, and according to my friend, on the Certificate.  

 

Now this will be brushed aside as just an anecdote, but that's no different than all the anecdotes we've heard from the other direction on this topic.  If you don't think Hospitals were chasing the Fed govt's money for COVID to plug budgetary holes, I don't know what to tell you.

 

 

 

My sympathies to your friend and to you on the death of his dad.  This is not easy on anyone.

 

I get frustrated with this because there is so much false information put out, especially on social media.

[Sundancer]

8 minutes ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Stop taking umbrage and making false narratives, noone is demeaning the unfortunate demise of anyone, nor suggesting Healthcare workers don't deserve respect.    

 

My industry has all kinds of rules & regulations also, guess what, they get broken all the time.  That's why every industry has an enforcement arm attendant to it.

 

I have a specific experience, where instead of amputating his father's 2nd leg due to late-stage diabetes, a friend made the difficult decision, along with his brother, to remove life support and enter Hospice.  I remember vividly because he was on the phone with his brother, and when they hung up we shared a hug, because it was a very difficult moment for him.  9-10 days later or so his father died, as expected.  Cause of Death?  COVID.  In the Obit, and according to my friend, on the Certificate.  

 

Now this will be brushed aside as just an anecdote, but that's no different than all the anecdotes we've heard from the other direction on this topic.  If you don't think Hospitals were chasing the Fed govt's money for COVID to plug budgetary holes, I don't know what to tell you.

 

 

 

 

If this story was widespread, total deaths for the last 18 months should be comparable to the previous 10 years or so, right? 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Sundancer

[Chef Jim]

44 minutes ago, oldmanfan said:

You ae a fool.  A complete and utter fool. 

 

 

Again I read no further.   If you truly believe that 100% of those Covid deaths are people that died FROM Covid vs those that died WITH Covid I think it's likely safe to say that I'm not the fool in this conversation.  Talk to some people in the medical field (I have) and get back to us. 

[OrangeBills]

11 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

If this story was widespread, total deaths for the last 18 months should be comparable to the previous 10 years or so, right? 

 

 

 

Noone is saying there isn't a virus out there.  Nor that people don't die from it.  The argument is that the virus and its effect are being sensationalized to create Social change/constraints that people really should be pushing back against.

 

Your data above is really NOT divergent from my argument, which is this:

1)  COVID-19 is form of Flu virus that is both slightly more transmissable and deadly than established Flu;  that's too bad;  it's a problem

 

2)  The Globe/US suffered a tough flu season 3 years ago;  BUT had very mild Flu seasons for 2 years after that and prior to the COVID-19 hit in 2020, THUS there was a certain population of susceptible people that were still there to be affected by a transmissable disease.  In effect the cohort of risky population saw extended life expectancy due to the benign flu seasons for two years.

 

3)  Powers that be, terrified of a Pandemic, used and are using "false" hard data on COVID, relative to "soft" historical Flu data, to push an agenda that is stopping life when it really shouldn't -- shifting goalposts if you will.  First 2 weeks shutdown (fine, let's make sure).  But it was clear what this was early on, a slightly worse Flu and our hospitals were not overrun -- in fact the BIGGEST issue is they mistreated this disease by misinterpreting temporary low-oxygen counts as diabolical and over-using Ventilators (remember that period?  That was wrong).

 

Children should not be wearing masks in school or elsewhere, it's actually causing OTHER viruses that DO harm children to become more prevalent themselves, so that's wrong.  People who are at risk should take care to protect themselves.  

 

For heavens sake Duke University has a "breakout" of Covid where 50 students tested positive, 1/2 who are asympomatic and 1/2 who, prob when pressed, declared they have light cold-like symptoms.  It's a joke.

 

 

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

2 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

What needs to be done and what should have been done from the get-go is to follow the recommendations of the public health officials who have made it their life's work to understand how to combat pandemics.  

I disagree.  Experts at assessing, managing, understanding, and mitigating risks should be in charge of coordinating and defining responses and proposing them to public officials.  All risks.  Not just the risk posed by the virus.  Social risks, economic risks, other risks, benefits, and consequences.  What expertise do pandemic experts have on issues of the economy, business, and commerce?  None.  Yet all their pronouncement impact those thing significantly.  Sure public health officials should have a voice but not the deciding voice on every issue.

But we're supposed to forever and obediently go along with them decreeing we all stay in our homes, get shots every 6 months, cover our faces, and stop all social interactions when they issue some edict?  And then be subjected to government oppression, coercion, and threats if we don't comply?  And yet with all this the virus still spreads and mutates? 

Meanwhile, these pandemic and health experts you cite at the FDA for example, sit for months and months on all kinds of treatments and medications that have been submitted to them for approval.  So there's your medical experts at work with a business as usual approach.  Somebody with a risk mitigation approach would push these overly cautious and slow acting officials aside and approve these things based on the likely outcome of death in people being deprived of these treatments.    

The hard ugly truth is nobody gets out of life alive.  Some people are going to die.  Maybe me and you.  Who knows?  But most people will live.  If the goal is a zero casualty policy response that's a fantasy.  The human race will survive and life will go on. 

Edited August 19, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[oldmanfan]

11 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

I disagree.  Experts at assessing, managing, understanding, and mitigating risks should be in charge of coordinating and defining responses and proposing them to public officials.  All risks.  Not just the risk posed by the virus.  Social risks, economic risks, other risks, benefits, and consequences.  What expertise do pandemic experts have on issues of the economy, business, and commerce?  None.  Yet all their pronouncement impact those thing significantly.  Sure public health officials should have a voice but not the deciding voice on every issue.

But we're supposed to forever and obediently go along with them decreeing we all stay in our homes, get shots every 6 months, cover our faces, and stop all social interactions when they issue some edict?  And then be subjected to government oppression, coercion, and threats if we don't comply?  And yet with all this the virus still spreads and mutates? 

Meanwhile, these pandemic and health experts you cite at the FDA for example, sit for months and months on all kinds of treatments and medications that have been submitted to them for approval.  So there's your medical experts at work with a business as usual approach.  Somebody with a risk mitigation approach would push these overly cautious and slow acting officials aside and approve these things based on the likely outcome of death in people being deprived of these treatments.    

The hard ugly truth is nobody gets out of life alive.  Some people are going to die.  Maybe me and you.  Who knows?  But most people will live.  If the goal is a zero casualty policy response that's a fantasy.  The human race will survive and life will go on. 

Some good points here.  I would say that if we had followed the advice of the public experts early on we would have avoided many of the economic issues.  

 

As for your concluding sentence, yes we will all die.  But we need to save those would would not die otherwise.  Should we close down cardiology offices and not treat heart failure?  Should we not treat cancer?  Where do you want to draw the line?

[Big Blitz]

No longer fully boosted

 

 

Lol "beating" covid. 

 

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Sundancer]

2 hours ago, OrangeBills said:

 

Noone is saying there isn't a virus out there.  Nor that people don't die from it.  The argument is that the virus and its effect are being sensationalized to create Social change/constraints that people really should be pushing back against.

 

Your data above is really NOT divergent from my argument, which is this:

1)  COVID-19 is form of Flu virus that is both slightly more transmissable and deadly than established Flu;  that's too bad;  it's a problem

 

2)  The Globe/US suffered a tough flu season 3 years ago;  BUT had very mild Flu seasons for 2 years after that and prior to the COVID-19 hit in 2020, THUS there was a certain population of susceptible people that were still there to be affected by a transmissable disease.  In effect the cohort of risky population saw extended life expectancy due to the benign flu seasons for two years.

 

3)  Powers that be, terrified of a Pandemic, used and are using "false" hard data on COVID, relative to "soft" historical Flu data, to push an agenda that is stopping life when it really shouldn't -- shifting goalposts if you will.  First 2 weeks shutdown (fine, let's make sure).  But it was clear what this was early on, a slightly worse Flu and our hospitals were not overrun -- in fact the BIGGEST issue is they mistreated this disease by misinterpreting temporary low-oxygen counts as diabolical and over-using Ventilators (remember that period?  That was wrong).

 

Children should not be wearing masks in school or elsewhere, it's actually causing OTHER viruses that DO harm children to become more prevalent themselves, so that's wrong.  People who are at risk should take care to protect themselves.  

 

For heavens sake Duke University has a "breakout" of Covid where 50 students tested positive, 1/2 who are asympomatic and 1/2 who, prob when pressed, declared they have light cold-like symptoms.  It's a joke.

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with much of that. But then why push the people are being diagnosed with Covid wrongly narrative? 

 

I don't want to talk about your friend because that's heartless, but I see social media accounts like this a lot. That cannot be widespread and is not causing the excess deaths. It's some other issue, assuming it's widespread, which I doubt. 

[Big Blitz]

U.S. COVID-19 breakthrough infections are 'uncommon,' rising 'considerably,' and 'sort of okay'

 

The Biden administration is advising eight-month booster shots for Americans vaccinated with the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines because the Delta variant, which now accounts for about 98.8 percent of new U.S. infections, is a lot more contagious and the effectiveness of the vaccines appears to wane with time. 

 

"Fortunately," the COVID-19 vaccines are "still holding at a high level" of protection from hospitalization and death, Surgeon General Vivek Murthy said Wednesday.

 

"But our anticipation is that if the trajectory that we are seeing continues ... we will likely see in the future an increase in breakthrough hospitalizations and breakthrough deaths" without boosters.

 

The overall numbers remain small, but it's pretty clear "the chances of a breakthrough infection have gone up considerably," U.C. San Francisco's Dr. Robert Wachter tells the Times. "Remember when the early vaccine studies came out, it was like nobody gets hospitalized, nobody dies," he added. "That clearly is not true."

 

"Let's be real, here: Breakthrough infections are sort of okay," Larry Corey, a virologist at Seattle's Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, tells the Journal.

 

"You get infected and you have a cold, maybe an achy fever for 24 hours. But you don't end up in the hospital, and you don't end up with that 2.5 percent chance of dying once you are hospitalized."

 

https://theweek.com/coronavirus/1003912/us-covid-19-breakthrough-infections-are-uncommon-rising-considerably-and-sort

[Sundancer]

41 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

U.S. COVID-19 breakthrough infections are 'uncommon,' rising 'considerably,' and 'sort of okay'

 

The Biden administration is advising eight-month booster shots for Americans vaccinated with the Pfizer and Moderna COVID-19 vaccines because the Delta variant, which now accounts for about 98.8 percent of new U.S. infections, is a lot more contagious and the effectiveness of the vaccines appears to wane with time. 

 

"Fortunately," the COVID-19 vaccines are "still holding at a high level" of protection from hospitalization and death, Surgeon General Vivek Murthy said Wednesday.

 

"But our anticipation is that if the trajectory that we are seeing continues ... we will likely see in the future an increase in breakthrough hospitalizations and breakthrough deaths" without boosters.

 

The overall numbers remain small, but it's pretty clear "the chances of a breakthrough infection have gone up considerably," U.C. San Francisco's Dr. Robert Wachter tells the Times. "Remember when the early vaccine studies came out, it was like nobody gets hospitalized, nobody dies," he added. "That clearly is not true."

 

"Let's be real, here: Breakthrough infections are sort of okay," Larry Corey, a virologist at Seattle's Fred Hutchinson Cancer Research Center, tells the Journal.

 

"You get infected and you have a cold, maybe an achy fever for 24 hours. But you don't end up in the hospital, and you don't end up with that 2.5 percent chance of dying once you are hospitalized."

 

https://theweek.com/coronavirus/1003912/us-covid-19-breakthrough-infections-are-uncommon-rising-considerably-and-sort

 

So you're saying EVERYONE SHOULD GET VACCINATED. 

 

First intelligent post you've ever made. See what happens when you don't question a child's death?  

5 hours ago, oldmanfan said:

Following up, here are the data from the CDC on estimated mortality rates (with ranges) rates from influenza:

 

Table 1: Estimated Influenza Disease Burden, by Season — United States, 2010-11 through 2019-20 Influenza Seasons

 

2010-2011 37,000(32,000 – 51,000)

2011-20129 12,000(11,000 – 23,000)

2012-2013 43,000(37,000 – 57,000)

2013-2014 38,000(33,000 – 50,000)

2014-2015 51,000(44,000 – 64,000)

2015-2016 23,000(17,000 – 35,000)

2016-2017 38,000(29,00-61,000)

2017-2018 61,000 (45,000-95,000)

2018-2019:  34,000 (26,000-53,000)

2019-2020:  22,000 (18,000-29,000)

 

 

If Covid made the flu go away last year, 2011 must have been a banner Covid year. 

[BillStime]

The Pro Life party ladies and gents - so sad

 

 

 

[Chef Jim]

3 minutes ago, BillStime said:

The Pro Life party ladies and gents - so sad

 

 

 

 

Who may die?  Those that made the choice or the fetus who had it's choice made for it.  Strike another "win" for Twit for Brains. 

[Big Blitz]

Easily one of the top 3 dumbest moments/actions of this sham:

 

 

[Chef Jim]

Just now, Big Blitz said:

Easily one of the top 3 dumbest moments/actions of this sham:

 

 

 

Nooooooo.   Those things were the dumbest security blanket ever.

[SCBills]

8 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Nooooooo.   Those things were the dumbest security blanket ever.

Expensive too… I know so many business owners that shelled out thousands of dollars on barriers for their offices.  

[Chef Jim]

6 minutes ago, SCBills said:

Expensive too… I know so many business owners that shelled out thousands of dollars on barriers for their offices.  

 

And sharp.  I think everyone in my office cut themselves moving those things around.  But knowing my firm they went cheap on them.  

Edited August 19, 2021 by Chef Jim

[Sundancer]

54 minutes ago, BillStime said:

The Pro Life party ladies and gents - so sad

 

 

 

 

You're a shrew. Those are Americans. And when the stats are flipped, and they will be, be sure to return to show NY, PA, NJ etc. at the top of the list. 

[Big Blitz]

Sens. Hickenlooper, King, Wicker say they have breakthrough COVID infections

 

 

Colorado's Democratic Sen. John Hickenlooper, Maine's Sen. Angus King, an independent who usually votes with Democrats, and Mississippi's Republican Sen. Roger Wicker said in separate statements on Thursday that they had tested positive for COVID-19 despite being fully vaccinated. Hickenlooper tweeted that he feels "good," while King said he's "not feeling great" but is "definitely feeling much better" than he would have without the vaccine, and Wicker's office said he "is in good health." Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina also disclosed a breakthrough infection this month and has since recovered.

 

https://on.mktw.net/3y2iTX1

 

 

 

 

Not Fully Boosted.  

 

8 months max for the Vaccine.  

 

 

Time to move on.  Nothing else to do.  We're trying to dodge air.  

 

Mask up!

[Chef Jim]

18 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

You're a shrew. Those are Americans. And when the stats are flipped, and they will be, be sure to return to show NY, PA, NJ etc. at the top of the list. 

 

Why do you feel those stats will flip? 

[TSOL]

10 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Sens. Hickenlooper, King, Wicker say they have breakthrough COVID infections

 

 

Colorado's Democratic Sen. John Hickenlooper, Maine's Sen. Angus King, an independent who usually votes with Democrats, and Mississippi's Republican Sen. Roger Wicker said in separate statements on Thursday that they had tested positive for COVID-19 despite being fully vaccinated. Hickenlooper tweeted that he feels "good," while King said he's "not feeling great" but is "definitely feeling much better" than he would have without the vaccine, and Wicker's office said he "is in good health." Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina also disclosed a breakthrough infection this month and has since recovered.

 

https://on.mktw.net/3y2iTX1

 

 

 

 

Not Fully Boosted.  

 

8 months max for the Vaccine.  

 

 

Time to move on.  Nothing else to do.  We're trying to dodge air.  

 

Mask up!

 

 

This is my account of having corona very early into the pandemic. It's the God's honest truth, you can believe me if you want, or don't. That's up to you.

 

I got real sick in October 2019, vicious cough, fever, no energy, couldn't sleep with the cold sweats and no appetite, no taste for anything. 

 

I was sick 3½ weeks. Went to work, didn't miss a day, because that's just how I have always been. I'm pretty healthy and usually kick the flu pretty quick but this lingered for awhile. Y'know, every night you go to bed and say hopefully I'll feel better tomorrow. 

 

Thought it was just the flu but In hindsight it was definitely corona, well before corona was cool.

 

That was near 22 months ago, almost 2 years. I remember it well because I rarely get sick but this one was pretty bad. 

 

Then the pandemic hit, I didn't really connect the dots because of the craziness and I just did the mask thing til about the end of 2020. At that point I was done with masks.

 

Throughout the entire pandemic, I worked, went to my office, was around people moderately, grocery shopped, in person, and have tried to live life as normal as possible. 

 

I have the antibodies, in not vaxxed, and it's been nearly 2 years. I have full confidence (for now at least) that the natural antibodies will keep me safe for a bit still so I'm waiting to see how this keeps playing out before I get the shot. I may get it in October or November this year, I don't know. 

 

My point is, is that healthy people are better off just biting the bullet and if you get it, you get it. You'll be way better off with much longer lasting immunity doing things the natural way. 

 

That's for me though, I don't recommend this method for everybody, but strong healthy people may look at it a similar way. Idk.

 

All I know Is the vaccine Nazis need to back the ***** off of me. I'm not hurting anyone. 

 

 

 

 

[Big Blitz]

59 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

Easily one of the top 3 dumbest moments/actions of this sham:

 

 

 

 

“I know the cafeteria has been a concern for many of us. I have been able to work with our Food Services and Nutrition Department to extend our lunch hours so that we will have a space between everyone and so that we do not have students sitting right next to one another,” he wrote in the email to parents. “We are also going to start off the year with dividers on the cafeteria tables and see how this goes.”

 

According to another email provided to InsideNoVa, students at Piney Branch Elementary School will also eat with plexiglass barriers and spaced 3 feet or more apart in the cafeteria.

 

https://www.insidenova.com/headlines/prince-william-schools-release-quarantine-guidance-rethink-cafeteria-set-ups/article_39616cc8-00b0-11ec-ab7a-6feee39eadee.html

 

 

[Sundancer]

21 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Why do you feel those stats will flip? 

They are all rising. Just different points on the curve. Delta has Spiked  cases everywhere. Hard to believe any place will be immune to it. 

[Chef Jim]

Just now, Sundancer said:

They are all rising. Just different points on the curve. Delta has Spiked  cases everywhere. Hard to believe any place will be immune to it. 

Oh I agree. The virus doesn’t stop at state lines.  All numbers will likely rise but you said flip.  So not sure why. 

[BillStime]

 

[TSOL]

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/scientists-question-evidence-behind-us-covid-19-booster-shot-drive-2021-08-19/

 

 

[TSOL]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-afghanistan-school-mask-mandate-governors-legal-action-cardona-department-education

 

And here is our lovely president trying to low key, under the radar, strong arm states into a "shut up and mask up, or else" campaign. 

 

 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/florida-sanctions-schools-mask-mandates 

 

Good thing there's a few real, freedom loving Americans left though 

 

I can't wait to vote for this guy 👆

 

 

[BillStime]

5 hours ago, Sundancer said:

 

You're a shrew. Those are Americans. And when the stats are flipped, and they will be, be sure to return to show NY, PA, NJ etc. at the top of the list. 

Yea tough guy?

 

Kushner's coronavirus team shied away from a national strategy, believing that the virus was hitting Democratic states hardest and that they could blame governors, report says

 

Thought so 

[TSOL]

 

 

Talking about going door to door to get people vaccinated? That seems very Taliban-esque of them. 

[Sundancer]

13 minutes ago, BillStime said:

Yea tough guy?

 

Kushner's coronavirus team shied away from a national strategy, believing that the virus was hitting Democratic states hardest and that they could blame governors, report says

 

Thought so 

Stop your TDS. I’m talking about you you POS. 

5 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

Oh I agree. The virus doesn’t stop at state lines.  All numbers will likely rise but you said flip.  So not sure why. 

Where it has spiked up, it goes down eventually in every wave. So I assume (yes ass out of me possible) that the states at the top now will wane and those starting the upswing will be on top again soon. I would love to be wrong and see the northern states have an uneventful Covid winter. 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Sundancer

[BillStime]

4 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

Stop your TDS. I’m talking about you you POS. 

Where it has spiked up, it goes down eventually in every wave. So I assume (yes ass out of me possible) that the states at the top now will wane and those starting the upswing will be on top again soon. I would love to be wrong and see the northern states have an uneventful Covid winter. 

Oh precious - who are you?

[B-Man]

 

 

Back to the thread.