It's Time to Mandate Vaccines

[The Frankish Reich]

57 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

 

Another person freaking out about vaccines not working in Israel. 

 

Try this article on for size.

 

https://www.covid-datascience.com/post/israeli-data-how-can-efficacy-vs-severe-disease-be-strong-when-60-of-hospitalized-are-vaccinated

 

I'll save you the read. 

 

 

So why is Israel (and the US) going for third shots? It helps the most vulnerable AND there have been few bad outcomes. Why not minimize your risk to get and spread Covid? 

 

I'd prefer we spread the vaccine to other countries but whatever. 

 

By the way for the 2 people here who are amazed by the actual science, the mRNA technology has already been adapted to work for Delta. Being tested already. And it's also being tested now vs HIV. It's 100% the wave of the future. Someday soon we will look at injecting live/dead virus into people as middle ages technology. 

I agree. If we look back to the very early days of the germ theory of disease, we'll see that the first attempts at vaccination were really innoculation - exposing a person to a less damaging pathogen that provides at least partial immunity against a more damaging one. Today we are astounded by the crudeness of the approach, but at least we recognize it as an advance over what we had before it. Seems to me that many of the commenters here are significantly less enlightened than the ordinary educated person c. 1796.

https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/history/history.html

 

The basis for vaccination began in 1796 when the English doctor Edward Jenner noticed that milkmaids who had gotten cowpox were protected from smallpox. Jenner also knew about variolation and guessed that exposure to cowpox could be used to protect against smallpox. To test his theory, Dr. Jenner took material from a cowpox sore on milkmaid Sarah Nelmes’ hand and inoculated it into the arm of James Phipps, the 9-year-old son of Jenner’s gardener. Months later, Jenner exposed Phipps several times to variola virus, but Phipps never developed smallpox. More experiments followed, and, in 1801, Jenner published his treatise “On the Origin of the Vaccine Inoculation.” In this work, he summarized his discoveries and expressed hope that “the annihilation of the smallpox, the most dreadful scourge of the human species, must be the final result of this practice.”

[Sundancer]

40 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

I agree. If we look back to the very early days of the germ theory of disease, we'll see that the first attempts at vaccination were really innoculation - exposing a person to a less damaging pathogen that provides at least partial immunity against a more damaging one. Today we are astounded by the crudeness of the approach, but at least we recognize it as an advance over what we had before it. Seems to me that many of the commenters here are significantly less enlightened than the ordinary educated person c. 1796.

https://www.cdc.gov/smallpox/history/history.html

 

The basis for vaccination began in 1796 when the English doctor Edward Jenner noticed that milkmaids who had gotten cowpox were protected from smallpox. Jenner also knew about variolation and guessed that exposure to cowpox could be used to protect against smallpox. To test his theory, Dr. Jenner took material from a cowpox sore on milkmaid Sarah Nelmes’ hand and inoculated it into the arm of James Phipps, the 9-year-old son of Jenner’s gardener. Months later, Jenner exposed Phipps several times to variola virus, but Phipps never developed smallpox. More experiments followed, and, in 1801, Jenner published his treatise “On the Origin of the Vaccine Inoculation.” In this work, he summarized his discoveries and expressed hope that “the annihilation of the smallpox, the most dreadful scourge of the human species, must be the final result of this practice.”

 

Don't put too much faith in earlier generations:

 

 

(Yes that's real)

1 hour ago, Buffalo Timmy said:

Yeah I got it, you think the vaccine lasts 8 months but you have to stick to the 6 months number because everything else you say you can't back up. I conceded the 8 months when the white house went with it because it is not a hill worth dying on. I would keep arguing with you but you literally don't answer questions and just keep linking to stuff that is not related to the 8 month time frame. 

 

Evade and avoid little man. 

 

Back this up: "in most cases the vaccine doesn't work after 6 months" 

[The Frankish Reich]

14 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

And why would I find it hard to believe that 450K NYC health care workers aren't vaccinated?

 

 

 

I just read that an NFL team is saying if you aren't vaccinated you can't come to the games unless you let them give you the shot before you go in....on site.  

 

And people will hear that and think it's awesome!

Now this is stupid. If it is meant as an incentive to get vaccinated ("come to the game and if you get a vaccine we'll give you a coupon for a free beer!), that's great. If it's "we won't let you in unless you have been previously vaccinated OR you are vaccinated in the parking lot before the game," well, that does nothing to advance public health.

 

(My mission here: to offer positive reinforcement when someone makes a decent argument or calls out a stupid policy. And, of course, to call bs on people who advance or repeat stupid arguments)

[B-Man]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Big Blitz]

36 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Help me out here B-Man.... .

 

So per this report on the results of the election - is the media here saying "meh it wasn't really because of turning NV into a prison promising vaccine passports.......it was more about the promises to fix the health care system."

 

Is that what these idiots are saying?

 

Federal Liberals will have to run on more than pandemic record if N.S. election is any indication: Nanos

 

 

After the Progressive Conservatives unseated the incumbent Liberals in a surprise, majority win in Nova Scotia on Tuesday night, Nanos Research’s Nik Nanos says the result could be an indication that parties will have to run on more than their pandemic record in the federal election.

 

Premier-designate Tim Houston led the Progressive Conservatives to a majority win over Iain Rankin’s Liberals after a campaign focused primarily on fixing the province’s troubled health-care system.

 

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/federal-election-2021/federal-liberals-will-have-to-run-on-more-than-pandemic-record-if-n-s-election-is-any-indication-nanos-1.5551748

 

I thought Canada's health care system was what we want to be like.  Now it's "troubled?"  Interesting.

 

 

 

While I'm sure there were specific things voters had issue with regarding the system, but was this more "we're done with your dystopian nightmare life we didn't ask for."  

[Sundancer]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Help me out here B-Man.... .

 

 

Yeah, help him out B-man. I want to see you two deeply insightful guys do a Bluenose political commentary. 

 

Should be as good as B-Man's deep insights on Scottish politics yesterday: "What who me?"

[Chef Jim]

47 minutes ago, B-Man said:

 

 

 

Brilliant!! 

[Governor]

1 hour ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Now this is stupid. If it is meant as an incentive to get vaccinated ("come to the game and if you get a vaccine we'll give you a coupon for a free beer!), that's great. If it's "we won't let you in unless you have been previously vaccinated OR you are vaccinated in the parking lot before the game," well, that does nothing to advance public health.

 

(My mission here: to offer positive reinforcement when someone makes a decent argument or calls out a stupid policy. And, of course, to call bs on people who advance or repeat stupid arguments)

You could do both and set up J&J tents around the stadiums. Unvaccinated already have to bring proof of negative test.

 

That seems to be the direction Live Nation (concerts) is going moving forward.

Edited August 18, 2021 by Governor

[Chef Jim]

2 minutes ago, Governor said:

You could do both and set up J&J tents around the stadiums.

 

That seems to be the direction Live Nation (concerts) is going moving forward.

 

I guess you'd be ok with them giving everyone a breathalyzer before they hopped in their cars and drove home?  

[Governor]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I guess you'd be ok with them giving everyone a breathalyzer before they hopped in their cars and drove home?  

No one is forcing you to go and it isn’t a right to attend a game.

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Governor said:

No one is forcing you to go and it isn’t a right to attend a game.

 

Good luck with the lines getting in.  Be prepared to leave the tailgate at 9am to make the kickoff.  

[Governor]

5 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

Good luck with the lines getting in.  Be prepared to leave the tailgate at 9am to make the kickoff.  

The NFL is watching the summer concerts very closely and I’m already assuming they will adopt some version of it. Live Nation has already been testing it out with great results.

 

https://phish.com/news/updated-covid-19-protocols-for-tour/

 

Now, all you need is vaccine tents.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/live-nation-require-proof-vaccination-negative-covid-test/story?id=79497439

 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Governor

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, Governor said:

The NFL is watching the summer concerts very closely and I’m already assuming they will adopt some version of it. Live Nation has already been testing it out with great results.

 

Now, all you need is vaccine tents.

 

https://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Culture/live-nation-require-proof-vaccination-negative-covid-test/story?id=79497439

 

LA County is now mandating masks for outdoor events of 10,000 or more.  Why 10,000? And you don't have to wear one if you're actively drinking or eating. So I anticipate zero masks at the football games.  

[Governor]

6 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

LA County is now mandating masks for outdoor events of 10,000 or more.  Why 10,000? And you don't have to wear one if you're actively drinking or eating. So I anticipate zero masks at the football games.  

I didn’t see any masks at the Jets/Giants game but I don’t know what other protocols are in place.

 
I think everyone is waiting around to see what worked and what didn’t for concerts.

[JaCrispy]

15 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

LA County is now mandating masks for outdoor events of 10,000 or more.  Why 10,000? And you don't have to wear one if you're actively drinking or eating. So I anticipate zero masks at the football games.  

Yup...just keep a beer to your lips the whole time instead of a mask...😉

[Governor]

6 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Yup...just keep a beer to your lips the whole time instead of a mask...😉

I have one of those little backpacks that has a bladder in it. I can drink with that wearing a mask. 

[Chef Jim]

11 minutes ago, Governor said:

I have one of those little backpacks that has a bladder in it. I can drink with that wearing a mask. 

 

You're the kind of guy who had a vasectomy, the wife's had her tubes tied and gone through menopause and you still wear a condom aren't you?   

[Governor]

2 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

You're the kind of guy who had a vasectomy, the wife's had her tubes tied and gone through menopause and you still wear a condom aren't you?   

I do that after I send her through one of Putin’s Covid spray/mist chambers.

 

You can never be too careful.

[SoCal Deek]

4 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

You're the kind of guy who had a vasectomy, the wife's had her tubes tied and gone through menopause and you still wear a condom aren't you?   

There is no way the Governor has a wife....they are way too expensive! 

[Chef Jim]

5 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

There is no way the Governor has a wife....they are way too expensive! 

 

For years while I was a poor Chef mine kept us afloat.  

7 minutes ago, Governor said:

I do that after I send her through one of Putin’s Covid spray/mist chambers.

 

You can never be too careful.

 

See @BillStime  this is how you do it. Lighten up dude.  

[Governor]

7 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

There is no way the Governor has a wife....they are way too expensive! 

That would definitely be a bad financial decision. She did want to marry but she seems to have forgotten about it. I’d rather not get my clock cleaned.

[Sundancer]

To date, 8,054 serious (hospitalization) breakthrough cases in the US. 

 

Good number to watch. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

 

That's 8,054/168,000,000 = 0.0048 % of breakthrough cases have resulted in serious outcomes, which according to @Buffalo Timmy supports his contention that  "the vaccines don't work after 6 months in most cases." 

 

If I can think to do it, I'll update this count weekly. 

[Big Blitz]

11 minutes ago, Sundancer said:

To date, 8,054 serious (hospitalization) breakthrough cases in the US. 

 

Good number to watch. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

 

That's 8,054/168,000,000 = 0.0048 % of breakthrough cases have resulted in serious outcomes, which according to @Buffalo Timmy supports his contention that  "the vaccines don't work after 6 months in most cases." 

 

If I can think to do it, I'll update this count weekly. 

 

 

That's terrible math considering the breakthrough cases are most likely happening in people vaccinated 6 to 8 months ago.

 

But we don't have that data.   

 

 

If we did, that % breakthrough number is much much higher and will likely be spiking in the next 2 months.  

 

Especially since the people in charge are God awful at their jobs.  

[Sundancer]

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

That's terrible math considering the breakthrough cases are most likely happening in people vaccinated 6 to 8 months ago.

 

But we don't have that data.   

 

Israel does. Already posted on this today. I'm sure that a well-informed guy like you read the paper. 

 

[gags]

 

1 minute ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

If we did, that % breakthrough number is much much higher and will likely be spiking in the next 2 months.  

 

Especially since the people in charge are God awful at their jobs.  

 

The number will of course increase. But from that paper, make sure to give us at least 3 reasons why.  

[Big Blitz]

You no longer live in the United States.  

 

They're threatening loss of funding .....that's the "leverage."

 

 

[SCBills]

How predictable… Biden goes scorched earth on the unvaccinated and those that oppose mandating masking kids. 
 

Disaster President desperately looking for a diversion as Afghanistan burns. 
 

Edited August 18, 2021 by SCBills

[Big Blitz]

Invoking the Education Department’s civil rights enforcement arm marks a major turning point in the Biden administration’s effort to get as many students back to in-person schooling this fall, and the urgency felt nationwide about blunting the impact of a pandemic has wreaked havoc on students’ educational careers since March 2020.

 

The nation’s most vulnerable students, namely students with disabilities, low-income students and students of color, have suffered the deepest setbacks when districts pivoted to remote learning, and their disproportionate disengagement has long drawn concern from education leaders and civil rights watchdogs.

 

Under Section 504 of the Rehabilitation Act of 1973, students are entitled to a Free Appropriate Public Education, known as FAPE, and Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 prohibits discrimination based on race, color and national origin.

 

The department could initiate its own investigations into districts, if state policies and actions rise to potential violation of students’ civil rights. It could also review complaints from parents and advocates who make the case that prohibiting masks mandates is, in effect, a civil rights violation because it could deny a student their right to an education by putting them in harm’s way in school. Such investigations could result in resolution agreements, as many investigations by the office often do, and in the most extreme cases result in revocation of federal funding.

 

Dr. Cardona said conversations with parents (not science data or logic) of children with autism, respiratory illness or weak immune systems, “who rely on school for socialization and the important building blocks of learning,” had contributed to his sense of urgency.

 

“I’ve heard those parents, saying ‘Miguel, because of these policies, my child cannot access their school, I would be putting them in harm’s way,’” Dr. Cardona said. “And to me, that goes against a free appropriate public education. That goes against of the fundamental beliefs of educators across the country to protect their students and provide a well rounded education.”

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/18/us/politics/biden-masks-schools-civil-rights.html

 

 

Tell us the masks guarantee their safety then Cardona. 

 

Tell Americans their kids are "safe" behind cloth masks in school for 8 hours a day.  5 times a week.  

 

Tell us their mortality rate vs swine flu.  

 

 

Banana republic 

 

Edited August 18, 2021 by Big Blitz

[Governor]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

You no longer live in the United States.  

 

They're threatening loss of funding .....that's the "leverage."

 

 

Bootstraps dude. I said this months ago that we can’t keep rewarding bad behavior.

 
It’s no different than DeSantis threatening to take  pay from educators who won’t bow to his bad decisions.

[Big Blitz]

10 minutes ago, Governor said:

Bootstraps dude. I said this months ago that we can’t keep rewarding bad behavior.

 

What do you mean "rewarding?"

 

 

 

10 minutes ago, Governor said:

 
It’s no different than DeSantis threatening to take  pay from educators who won’t bow to his bad decisions.

 

 

But it's OK when Blackface does this the other way in VA to school districts telling him to f off and implement their own guidance?  

 

Then it's good?  

[SoCal Deek]

1 hour ago, Governor said:

That would definitely be a bad financial decision. She did want to marry but she seems to have forgotten about it. I’d rather not get my clock cleaned.

"Get your clocked cleaned."? Is that slang for something we probably shouldn't be discussing on an open forum. 

[Sundancer]

25 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

You no longer live in the United States.  

 

They're threatening loss of funding .....that's the "leverage."

 

 

 

 Deplorable.

 

Were you equally appalled when Barrack Hussein Obama said, "Michigan sends absentee ballots to 7.7 million people ahead of Primaries and the General Election...This was done illegally and without authorization by a rogue Secretary of State. I will ask to hold up funding to Michigan if they want to go down this Voter Fraud path!”

 

 

[Governor]

3 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

LA County is now mandating masks for outdoor events of 10,000 or more.  Why 10,000? And you don't have to wear one if you're actively drinking or eating. So I anticipate zero masks at the football games.  

This plan didn’t work for Garth so he had to shut it down. He had a free vaccine clinic outside. Only 35 takers.

 

Who is most likely to attend a Garth concert? Not hard to figure out.

 

https://variety.com/2021/music/news/garth-brooks-cancels-stadium-tour-concerts-1235043959/

Edited August 18, 2021 by Governor

[The Frankish Reich]

3 hours ago, Chef Jim said:

 

I guess you'd be ok with them giving everyone a breathalyzer before they hopped in their cars and drove home?  

Actually that's not a terrible idea.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/dram-shop-laws-can-i-sue-bar-after-alcohol-related-accident.html

 

[Chef Jim]

1 minute ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Actually that's not a terrible idea.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/dram-shop-laws-can-i-sue-bar-after-alcohol-related-accident.html

 

 

No I've already said it's a good idea.  Just expect massive lines from people not able to find their cards, people arguing with the people at the gates asking for cards.  It's going to be a glorious ***** show.  Have fun fans!!  LOL! 

[Sundancer]

9 minutes ago, Chef Jim said:

 

No I've already said it's a good idea.  Just expect massive lines from people not able to find their cards, people arguing with the people at the gates asking for cards.  It's going to be a glorious ***** show.  Have fun fans!!  LOL! 

 

I don't think it's a good idea but it can be implemented easily. Just do it using a secure app. NY has that Excelsior app. 

 

Is it foolproof? No. But it's idiotproof. For Bills games, you need your phone to get into Bills games already so everyone will have their phone. 

 

I expected mandatory testing before entry this year back when Trump put on the show of rapid testing and said we'd being doing hundreds of millions of those tests in a week. That was last fall, or should I say fail. 

2 hours ago, Sundancer said:

To date, 8,054 serious (hospitalization) breakthrough cases in the US. 

 

Good number to watch. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

 

That's 8,054/168,000,000 = 0.0048 % of breakthrough cases have resulted in serious outcomes, which according to @Buffalo Timmy supports his contention that  "the vaccines don't work after 6 months in most cases." 

 

If I can think to do it, I'll update this count weekly. 

 

Of those 8054, 1800 were hospitalizations for other things and those 1800 were asymptomatic. 

 

Sorry for the error: You can reduce the breakthroughs even further. 

[Governor]

The stick is coming.

 

https://www.axios.com/axios-ipsos-poll-mandates-masks-vaccinations-f0f105a7-3c2e-4953-aac9-f25516128b11.html

[Sundancer]

Anti-vaxxers: "I am not putting that experimental vaccine into my body." 

 

Also anti-vaxxers, "If I get Covid and have to go to the hospital, you better give me that experimental cocktail Trump got!" 

 

 

[Governor]

The next step is making all Medicare/Medicaid get it, the insurance companies will follow. That likely gets us to 90 percent vaccination. 

 

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/biden-make-covid-19-nursing-home-staff-vaccinations-condition-receiving-medicare-2021-08-18/?utm_source=reddit.com

[Westside]

49 minutes ago, Governor said:

This plan didn’t work for Garth so he had to shut it down. He had a free vaccine clinic outside. Only 35 takers.

 

Who is most likely to attend a Garth concert? Not hard to figure out.

 

https://variety.com/2021/music/news/garth-brooks-cancels-stadium-tour-concerts-1235043959/

For comparison, they should set a free shot clinic outside a rap concert. I wonder how many will get the shot?

[nkreed]

2 hours ago, Sundancer said:

To date, 8,054 serious (hospitalization) breakthrough cases in the US. 

 

Good number to watch. 

 

https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/covid-19/health-departments/breakthrough-cases.html

 

That's 8,054/168,000,000 = 0.0048 % of breakthrough cases have resulted in serious outcomes, which according to @Buffalo Timmy supports his contention that  "the vaccines don't work after 6 months in most cases." 

 

If I can think to do it, I'll update this count weekly. 

CDC has done some massive dancing in your link. First describing breakthroughs as 

 

'For the purpose of this surveillance, a vaccine breakthrough infection is defined as the detection of SARS-CoV-2 RNA or antigen in a respiratory specimen collected from a person ≥14 days after they have completed all recommended doses of a U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA)-authorized COVID-19 vaccine.'

 

However, when they give a number it's

'CDC received reports from 49 U.S. states and territories of 8,054 patients with COVID-19 vaccine breakthrough infection who were hospitalized or died.'

 

That's a massive goalpost shift. Now if we all CLEARLY understand these breakthroughs as 'severe enough to cause hospitalization or death' than that low number is right.

 

With that said, however, the number of breakthrough cases is much higher. Pfizer looks to be less effective against Delta, close to 1 in 2 vaccinated may become infected and pass the virus on. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/08/12/mayo-clinic-covid-breakthrough-risk-may-be-much-lower-with-moderna-vaccine-than-pfizer.html

 

I wish that this was a one off study, but I don't think it is. A study in Massachusetts found that 74% of the COVID cases found in the study were in fully vaccinated people.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/pdfs/mm7031e2-H.pdf

 

My point isn't to scare anyone, but to read a little bit more into what you are seeing. The major Delta strain multiplies faster than our bodies immune system can respond, along with a shorter incubation period so that you can spread the disease.