EDIT: Total cost to taxpayers? Bills select sports firm to represent ownership in building new open air stadium in OP, targeted for 2025

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, Bad Things said:

There's a lot of posts about how "they" should poll more of the fans for their opinion on the stadium design.

 

Don't you think they should poll the Taxpayers that will be footing the bill?

I live on the other side of the planet, and to be honest, my opinions shouldn't count for anything on this.

Erie county tax payers should be thought of first exactly

[PrimeTime101]

2 hours ago, BTB said:

I’ll wait to see the results of these “many polls”.  

just use the little search thing on these forums. plenty of polls on this topic

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Unfortunately most Buffalonians and Bills fans don't come to forums like this 

 

Most people here are probably expats and transplants 

 

Huge following here, but it's probably not even 10% of the fan base

That's such Garbage. 

Everyone here either shows enough respect for the bills to not troll or are fans .. if you think 10% of the posters here are fans your koo koo

[Rocky Landing]

10 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Erie county tax payers should be thought of first exactly

Why Erie county taxpayers? NYS taxes via bond funding are likely going to pay for it. Erie county will reap enormous benefits.

[Buffalo716]

7 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

That's such Garbage. 

Everyone here either shows enough respect for the bills to not troll or are fans .. if you think 10% of the posters here are fans your koo koo

I think you're misreading what I said

 

Everybody here is a ultimate Bills fan.. that's why they're on the message board

 

My point was this message board is only probably 10% of Bills fans around the world... And that's ludicrously high.. prolly under 1%

 

Don't get it twisted.. this place is filled with die-hard bills fans it's why we are here 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Buffalo716

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think you're misreading what I said

 

Everybody here is a ultimate Bills fan.. that's why they're on the message board

 

My point was this message board is only probably 10% of Bills fans around the world

 

Don't get it twisted.. this place is filled with die-hard bills fans it's why we are here 

yea.. you said it wrong.. so your saying only 10% of the fans on these forums are from buffalo? Does not matter.. A FAN is a FAN. Just about everyone here has been to at least one game in there life I am sure. If they are an Ultimate Fan as you put it then the Ultimate Fan no matter where they live should have a say on a poll... 

 

just silliness. 

[Doc]

I'd be surprised if this site had even 1% of Bills fans worldwide.

[PrimeTime101]

2 minutes ago, Doc said:

I'd be surprised if this site had even 1% of Bills fans worldwide.

Agree. But here we are. Twitter, Channel 4 news and other bigger outlets have done such polls on the stadium.. Roof.. Retractable.. No roof.. Results pretty split.

[JoPoy88]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I think you're misreading what I said

 

Everybody here is a ultimate Bills fan.. that's why they're on the message board

 

My point was this message board is only probably 10% of Bills fans around the world

 

Don't get it twisted.. this place is filled with die-hard bills fans it's why we are here 

if this board’s membership is 10% of Bills fans total then they have a smaller fanbase than a Texas high school football team. Ridiculous statement. Also not surprising

[PrimeTime101]

Just now, Buffalo716 said:

No. Dude there's only like 10 or 20,000 active fans on this forum

 

There are millions of Bills fans

 

This place only compromises like 10% of Bills fans that was my point.. the vast majority of Bills fans from Buffalo and around the world don't come here

 

So a poll here of 15,000 fans doesn't represent the full fan base or Buffalo

 

And that's what I was responding to.. never once said anything about the character of the fans here

 

I said the majority of Buffalo Bills fans around the world  and in Buffalo aren't on this message board, it's the truth

that explains it better.. OK.. To my point... These forums are not the only place a poll has been at.. Channel 4 and 7 did a poll. Twitter did multiple polls. They were all pretty split between Roof, Retractable and no roof

[Buffalo716]

7 hours ago, JoPoy88 said:

if this board’s membership is 10% of Bills fans total then they have a smaller fanbase than a Texas high school football team. Ridiculous statement. Also not surprising

That actually helps my point.. my point was the vast majority of Bills fans aren't on this website.. shot ridiculously high at 10%... Your tight prolly under 1%

 

I wasn't disparaging anybody..  my point was most Bills fans are not on this website I don't know how that's controversial

Edited August 21, 2021 by Buffalo716

[PrimeTime101]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

No. Dude there's only like 10 or 20,000 active fans on this forum

 

There are millions of Bills fans

 

This place only compromises like 5-10% of Bills fans that was my point.. probably less... the vast majority of Bills fans from Buffalo and around the world don't come here

 

So a poll here of 15,000 fans doesn't represent the full fan base or Buffalo

 

And that's what I was responding to.. never once said anything about the character of the fans here

 

I said the majority of Buffalo Bills fans around the world  and in Buffalo aren't on this message board, it's the truth

you come up with a bigger place to do a poll then let me know.. forums is a small fan size and you cant possibly know how say a million bills fans are thinking.

[JoPoy88]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

That actually helps my point.. my point was the vast majority of Bills fans aren't on this website.. shot high at 10%

 

And that's a fact

 

I wasn't disparaging anybody..  my point was most Bills fans are not on this website I don't know how that's controversial

You shot wayyyy high yes.

[Buffalo716]

7 hours ago, PrimeTime101 said:

that explains it better.. OK.. To my point... These forums are not the only place a poll has been at.. Channel 4 and 7 did a poll. Twitter did multiple polls. They were all pretty split between Roof, Retractable and no roof

We are literally all hardcore Bills fans on a message board... We all shout different opinions here 

 

At least I'm not wishy-washy, I stand by my opinions and I show respect to everybody.. 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Buffalo716

[Doc]

9 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

Agree. But here we are. Twitter, Channel 4 news and other bigger outlets have done such polls on the stadium.. Roof.. Retractable.. No roof.. Results pretty split.

 

Yeah, I'm sure there are more than enough fans willing to fill a roofed stadium as they are an open one.  And while diehard no roof fans will grumble, most won't avoid going to the games just because there's a roof.

[Rocky Landing]

I vote for comfortable seats with arm rests and drink holders, Genny Cream Ale on tap, and plenty of bathrooms. Clean ones. After that, I don't really care.

[TSNBDSC]

Red End Zones

[PrimeTime101]

47 minutes ago, Doc said:

 

Yeah, I'm sure there are more than enough fans willing to fill a roofed stadium as they are an open one.  And while diehard no roof fans will grumble, most won't avoid going to the games just because there's a roof.

Doc... as always you are spot on and made my point. THANK YOU KIND SIR! 

[Rico]

26 minutes ago, Rocky Landing said:

I vote for comfortable seats with arm rests and drink holders, Genny Cream Ale on tap, and plenty of bathrooms. Clean ones. After that, I don't really care.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Genny Screamers

[PrimeTime101]

47 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Probably by 9% but I was being lenient 

 

The point was this place is filled with a small percentage of hardcore fans ... Hardcore fans have strong opinions lol

I primarily responded to a guy, who said he don't pay taxes in Western New York or New York state so his opinion shouldn't matter..

 

As a Bills fan of course you have your opinion and it does matter.. but when it comes to building the stadium I think a Bills fan who's paying New York state and Erie Couty taxes should maybe be polled

 

In a legitimate poll of Erie county

Taxpayers should be polled? You cant make this stuff up lol... GL with that.

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course I don't think he's wrong

 

I've always said i I will go to a stadium wherever it  open air or dome.. I will be thankful for it 

 

I think the monetary cost of a dome, also makes it slightly less realistic.. if it happened tomorrow you wouldn't hear me cry 

 

Be a beautiful day for Western New York

 

 

In a perfect world yeah.. you said it yourself they've done polls.. why not just send it to every Erie county person

 

I know that's not going to happen.. probably like downtown stadium

Everyone in Erie county? I am pretty sure the entire state gets taxed. yes?

[PrimeTime101]

24 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Yes at different brackets

 

Millionaire pays more state tax than somebody making $50,000 a year.. you're the one who brought up polls so I just ran with it  , with an idea that I know isn't going to happen

 

The point is Western New Yorkers opinions are valid because it's going to effect them... So they would be the people to poll in a survey

your joking right? Millionaires donate to 501c3 Tax Deductible Charities.. you would be shocked how little they actually pay... your digging a hole to big to crawl out of here lol...

[Doc]

35 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Of course I don't think he's wrong

 

I've always said i I will go to a stadium wherever it  open air or dome.. I will be thankful for it 

 

I think the monetary cost of a dome, also makes it slightly less realistic.. if it happened tomorrow you wouldn't hear me cry 

 

Be a beautiful day for Western New York

 

Yeah, the cost is what will prevent it from happening.

[PrimeTime101]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

No you're just attacking me for having an opinion.. not digging myself a hole because I plainly stated my opinion this entire time 

 

My opinion is Buffalo is a blue collar rust belt City that embraces the weather.. that a lot of fans embrace the weather.. and we always have .. an economics of the city don't really set us up for a downtown dome... Logistics say the most economical spot is open air in orchard Park... Has been my steady opinion this entire time.. for 90 pages

 

You mentioned polls so I just said why don't we polls Western New Yorkers 

 

It literally had nothing to do with my opinion.. and your just trying to attack me now 

 

96 pages that has been my entire opinion..  if you don't agree say you don't agree.. you're literally just trying to attack me now 

 

But you know what there's been a lot of people over 86 pages that agree with me

Sir this all started because you state the opinion that you feel most don't want a roof. This statement Just isn't true. Period. end of story,

[PrimeTime101]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

That's perfectly fine.. say you don't believe in my opinion not attack me 

 

Most People are able to have civil conversations but you're attacking me.. you don't think my opinion is correct that's perfectly fine

 

That's why everybody has their own opinions

I have attacked the topic not you personally. There is a difference. I have not called you names. I am attacking the topic at hand that "You feel that most people don't want a roof" That quote is so beyond wrong it can never get right.

[Punching Bag]

16 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

No you're just attacking me for having an opinion.. not digging myself a hole because I plainly stated my opinion this entire time 

 

My opinion is Buffalo is a blue collar rust belt City that embraces the weather.. that a lot of fans embrace the weather.. and we always have .. an economics of the city don't really set us up for a downtown dome... Logistics say the most economical spot is open air in orchard Park... Has been my steady opinion this entire time.. for 90 pages

 

Since majority of Bills tickets not sold to season ticket holders are sold to scalping ticket agencies I see no reason to give them way to get extra money from those coming to stadium.  Most of them are opposition fans since they will pay for more including packages.  Bills used to offer blocks of tickets to Bills Backers groups but do not anymore choosing to get extra money from ticketing agencies even if they are selling to opposition fans.

[PrimeTime101]

7 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Then say that.. 

 

And I never said that there's not a lot of people who want a dome... But living here  my entire life and I have a good pulse on the city.. I feel there's more who want open air in orchard Park..  so we can keep our traditions

 

Even if it's 60/40 or 55/45 I still think it's a majority.. but it's still my opinion ... And I used other rust belt cities to show that they do play in open air 

 

I've met plenty of fans who want a dome.. I've also met plenty of purists who don't

 

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Ever think they don't want a roof , and the majority don't either

 

Buffalonians don't cry about the weather .. when you hit an old age like my father you just don't go to cold games or embrace it with the fans.. a dome is anti buffalo

See the Bolded. 

 

Buffalonians don't cry about weather? Work at my liquor store for 15 minutes. Its either to hot or to cold. lol

Edited August 21, 2021 by PrimeTime101

[Doc Brown]

25 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Then say that.. 

 

And I never said that there's not a lot of people who want a dome... But living here  my entire life and I have a good pulse on the city.. I feel there's more who want open air in orchard Park..  so we can keep our traditions

 

Even if it's 60/40 or 55/45 I still think it's a majority.. but it's still my opinion ... And I used other rust belt cities to show that they do play in open air 

 

I've met plenty of fans who want a dome.. I've also met plenty of purists who don't

 

Okay but Detroit and Minnesota have a dome and it's less windy there.  I think you're living in the past a little too bit.  This city was built on hard working blue collar people but the majority of jobs now are white collar jobs.  Back in the glory days of the early 90's the tv experience was poor compared to today (rabbit ears) so more people were willing to go to the game for a far superior viewing experience.  If you build an indoor stadium the diehards will still show up but you'll get more casual fans.  

 

Also, players don't want to play in the cold in Buffalo so it's harder to attract free agents.  McKenzie admitted the current Bills players would pry prefer an indoor stadium on a podcast.......

 

 

[Buffalo716]

God Bless everyone we are all Bills fans  

 

 

[LeGOATski]

If there's one thing I've learned in life, people will complain about anything and everything, but not change their habits.

 

And also that McKenzie is a bullshitter. 😆

 

Mr. Beane (the GM of the team) embraces the elements and welcomes the rest of the AFC to come play in Buffalo in the playoffs (see the recent McAfee interview). 👍

[Buffalo716]

1 minute ago, LeGOATski said:

If there's one thing I've learned in life, people will complain about anything and everything, but not change their habits.

 

And also that McKenzie is a bullshitter. 😆

 

Mr. Beane (the GM of the team) embraces the elements and welcomes the rest of the AFC to come play in Buffalo in the playoffs (see the recent McAfee interview). 👍

Why is McKenzie a BSr? 

59 minutes ago, PrimeTime101 said:

 

See the Bolded. 

 

Buffalonians don't cry about weather? Work at my liquor store for 15 minutes. Its either to hot or to cold. lol

I definitely heard 100 people cry about the heat earlier 😆 

 

You own a liquor store in the city?

[LeGOATski]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Why is McKenzie a BSr? 

McKenzie...Mr. Face of the Franchise...

 

I meant he's a BSer in a good way. Funny guy.

[PrimeTime101]

4 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

Why is McKenzie a BSr? 

I definitely heard 100 people cry about the heat earlier 😆 

 

You own a liquor store in the city?

No... I treat the store as if I own it so thats how I talk lol

[Buffalo716]

2 minutes ago, LeGOATski said:

McKenzie...Mr. Face of the Franchise...

 

I meant he's a BSer in a good way. Funny guy.

Gotcha he has the gift of gab

1 minute ago, PrimeTime101 said:

No... I treat the store as if I own it so thats how I talk lol

Nice ... Bet that is interesting the characters you see in a liquor store

 

[Just Jack]

13 hours ago, Greg S said:

 

If the Bills win the Super Bowl I will drive up to Buffalo from NJ for the celebration which would be epic. In NYC they celebrate NY teams winning with a ride down Broadway thru Manhattan. I wonder what kind of celebration/party Buffalo would give the Bills?

 

Well, if this is any indication of what it may be like....

 

Niagara Square Bills Rally - January 28, 1991 (buffalobills.com)

[BigDingus]

36 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

Okay but Detroit and Minnesota have a dome and it's less windy there.  I think you're living in the past a little too bit.  This city was built on hard working blue collar people but the majority of jobs now are white collar jobs.  Back in the glory days of the early 90's the tv experience was poor compared to today (rabbit ears) so more people were willing to go to the game for a far superior viewing experience.  If you build an indoor stadium the diehards will still show up but you'll get more casual fans.  

 

Also, players don't want to play in the cold in Buffalo so it's harder to attract free agents.  McKenzie admitted the current Bills players would pry prefer an indoor stadium on a podcast.......

 

 

 

Exactly. Not to mention our franchise QB who we're hoping to have around for 10+ years has stated how he loves playing indoors & how great his feel/control throwing the ball is in indoor venues. 

 

So having our QB play in the best possible environment for 50%+ of games each season would be a huge advantage for us. And I know some outdoors stadiums like Arrowhead & Seattle are super loud, having a fanbase like ours + a dome would likely be even louder. 

 

My most recent experience in a dome was the Texans vs Bills in Allen's rookie season, and even though it was 1/3 empty, it was much louder than the last 2 times I was in Buffalo. Made me imagine how crazy it would sound if it was packed with a more diehard fanbase like the Bills have.

[Rochesterfan]

11 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

I've lived in Buffalo my entire life and still do .. do we have a huge medical sector, yes .. I would never say the people of the city are white collar

 

But I would absolutely say that the majority of working age men still work Blue collar jobs.. construction, plumbing, electrician, roofing, concrete , railroad, landscaping 

 

There's a lot more of those than bankers and editors 

 

I understand your point.. but even for those 2 there are Cleveland, Cincinnati, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, GB, NE all that don't 

 

Again... The only thing I want is a new stadium

 

I will not cry about what or where it is when it's built.. unless it's somewhere in Texas lol

 

I think your pulse is way, way off and it completely impacts your opinions.

 

The major employers in Buffalo right now are 4 Hospitals systems, 2 grocery chains, multiple banks, and insurance companies.  There are also gaming companies, schools, and food service driving employment.

 

The occupational employment and wage information collected and printed by the US bureau of labor points out the fact that education and healthcare alone outstrip Construction, industrial production, and installation and repair for the Buffalo region.

 

Due to the number of union employees (including in healthcare) - Buffalo is considered an excellent “blue collar town” with high wages compared to housing costs, but the caveat from reading the studies - is the majority of jobs are not “Blue Collar Jobs” - they are hourly paid union jobs in healthcare and schools.

 

There are also over twice the number of people working in banking than construction - so I guess my overall take would be that the people you know and interact with fit a more traditional blue collar job and perspective.  There are an even larger group living throughout the surrounding area that have a different and just as valid set of feelings.

 

The issue with you wanting to poll all of Buffalo and the surrounding area will lead you to the same issue that San Diego had.  There are huge swaths of people that don’t care about sports and would rather see the money spent elsewhere and that ends up being exactly how San Diego lost the Chargers.  They had support of fans, but the wider community rejected the call for money to build a stadium and therefore the team left.

[Rochesterfan]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

https://www.zippia.com/advice/best-cities-blue-collar-workers/

 

Calls Buffalo the best City for blue collar workers 

 

I'm talking specifically men and city of buffalo... 

 

Not the suburbs which I would agree are more white collar... The city itself... The East side and west side and south side ... North Buffalo definitely White collar

 

That is exactly what I am talking about - it is called the best blue collar city because of the hourly union healthcare and education jobs.  They are not traditional blue collar jobs.  It is the same reason Rochester is #3 on the list - with an extremely limited traditional blue collar workforce.  Rochester has traditionally been considered much more white collar than Buffalo, but it is #3 because it is being driven by the same healthcare and education jobs as Buffalo.
 

Why for any reason would you specifically talk only about men and just the city of Buffalo when talking about a stadium in OP - that makes literally no sense.  Asking what guys named Bob that live on the south side of Hamburg and deciding what stadium design is best makes just as much sense.
 

We we’re talking about stadiums and you said we are a blue collar city and therefore should be an open air stadium in OP, but we find out you are basing that on men only that live in the city?  🤦‍♂️
 

I am pretty sure that the people going to the game include people from the suburbs and even women and maybe a covered stadium is even more inviting for that group and brings in more people.  
 

We already know that late season and bad weather games tend to have difficulty selling out even when we were going to Super Bowls.  We also know that when we were bad those late season and bad weather games end up with 20-30,000 fans - many complaining about Donahoe at the time.  The final thing we know from the players is several of them prefer indoor venues and have talked about liking the consistency- including our franchise QB.

 

I understand the Pegula’s making the choice because it saves money and the ask will be close to 1 billion in public funds and that money should cover the majority of the stadium, but it doesn’t make it the best choice - it made it the most convenient choice.

[purple haze]

6 hours ago, BTB said:

This is exactly the kind of thing I expect(useless bells and whistles), and will be a huge waste of money as opposed to building a stadium with a fixed roof. 

A roof in OP makes no sense and if they did spend the extra money to add one many people on here clamoring for it would be priced out of sitting under it. 
If the weather is that much of an issue for some stay home and watch on TV.  You can be super-comfortable there. 

[purple haze]

6 hours ago, BTB said:

Don’t take your opinion and automatically assume that the “majority” don’t want a fixed roof stadium.  Do you have numbers to back it up?

 

Perfect example...the comeback game.  Blacked out because it wasn’t sold out.  Where were all the diehards that January that absolutely love outside football in the middle of winter?

Explain how it is a waste of money? 

You act like there were 30,000 people there.  Stop it.  Official attendance was over 75,000 in what, at the time, was an 80,000 seat stadium.   That would be a sellout at the current stadium capacity; and the new stadium capacity will probably be less than than the current 73,000 seats.