A Lot of Bills stars Were at OTA's But 1 Star Was Not .

[Thurman#1]

On 5/28/2021 at 3:51 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

If you think these 300# guys are in great physical condition because they are being paid to play football I suggest you read up on Matt Birk. 

 

He was considered a very athletic lineman and yet even in the offseason he had to one-foot walk down stairs and couldn't go on walks with his family because it was too exhausting.    He dropped 75 pounds and now he is running marathons.  

 

These dudes operate athletically in a relative phone booth.   They are not necessarily in good cardiovascular condition.  

 

 

 

If you think these 300 # guys are NOT in great physical condition because they are being paid to play football, I suggest you try to block Star Lotulelei, whether he is healthy or not. Then I suggest you try to bench what he does, whether he's let himself go or not. Don't limit yourself to Lotulelei. Block or outlift any NFL lineman.

 

You bring up Matt Birk and it's a good point. First because it shows yet more evidence of a lack of caring for the facts. That one step at a time thing is both exaggerated (the word "exhausting" was not used), nor was it Birk who talked about problems walking down stairs. That was Yanda. Carelessness with the facts. 

 

Birk's story is pretty terrific. And also illustrative. 

 

Here's a picture of him today:

 

 

6'4 and 235 pounds these days. 

 

That gives him a BMI of 28.6. 25.0 to 29.9 is over weight, so he's apparently quite overweight. 

 

And 30.0 and above is obese. 

 

Which means he's only 12 pounds away from obese. Now. The guy in that picture.

 

Yeah, makes total sense.

 

These guys are not normal. Not even close.

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Rico]

On 5/27/2021 at 5:34 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

"Golly......I recognize you fella's........why you're Star Lotulelei........and you're a @Royale with Cheese special"

I just want to say thanks once again as always for all the knowledge you are dropping in this thread... so many things I never knew before.

 

I now have an informed take on Star.

[Thurman#1]

On 5/28/2021 at 3:07 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1) Honestly,  the question was so unrelated to what I actually said that I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he misread it.    He could have addressed that,  he chose not to because he knew his question was chaff with a hat.  

 

2) As I said earlier.........according to the AHA........more than 1/3 of adult males have heart disease.   Now add in all of the other health risk factors.......and non-heart related afflictions like diabetes......... involved with being a 300# NFL OL and you have a recipe for a very large amount of people who could have opted out.    

 

I could straw man YOU here and say.........."you are saying that nobody with underlying medical conditions did NOT opt out"..........but the reality is that even you and @Royale with Cheese know that there were inevitably MANY more players with them that played than with them that opted out.    It's a statistical certainty.

 

If you want to continue to argue.........I will continue to make fun of each of your illogical takes.    

 

And as with your predecessor in this argument.........refrain from calling people or their takes stupid or idiotic etc.......non-descript, de-humanizing terms are unproductive for advancing discussion.........that's just a sign that you are out of control with your anger.    Keep it together.

 

 

I have to thank you for this post. I often watch a couple of minutes of standup comedy on youtube before bed. Didn't have to do that after chuckling my way through this post.

 

So many sad/funny things here. You say you're giving him the benefit of the doubt. I'm guessing you know what that means, which makes it quite funny. Ignoring his good argument and pretending he didn't understand something unrelated when it's you who doesn't understand ... that's not giving him the benefit. It's ignoring his point because you can't answer it. 

 

As for saying you'll "continue to make fun of each of my illogical takes," ... hey, it could happen. There's always a first time. What usually happens with you, though, is what you did in your post here: straw men, unrelated facts, facts that don't begin to make a case being treated as if they're probative ... saying as you did above that people shouldn't do something and then doing it yourself in the next sentence. 

 

But hey, you did crack me up. You say people shouldn't use certain insulting words about people or takes, and then you insult me a sentence later, saying I'm "out of control with my anger" and should "eep it together." I'm not angry at you, dude, just consistently sadly amused at your takes.

 

I don't use words like idiotic and stupid about people. Doing so brings a response from the mods, and that's a fantastic policy, IMO.

 

But as for takes, hey, opinions can be stupid, and there's no reason not to call a spade a spade. Now, the vast majority of opinions with which I disagree are in no way idiotic. They're reasonable disagreement. But some just clear the bar, and if people don't want their takes ignored and insulted, they should put at least a smidgeon of sense in.

 

But there's no problem with pointing out how sad a use of logic there might be in a post. And you've given an excellent example in this post.

 

You're trying to back up what you have said, twice now, quoting yourself, that, ""And that issue is usually very much a function of being overweight and obese.   Like all 300# NFL lineman."

 

So you've been saying yourself that this issue [pre-existing conditions] is "usually a function of being overweight and obese."  OK, where's your data on that. What percentages of NFL guys with pre-existing conditions come from being overweight and obese. And then you say, "Like all 300# NFL linemen." Which again is laughable, because the figures on obesity are not intended for freaks like NFL linemen. 

 

And your attempt to prove these two points with this symphony of generalizations:  

 

"As I said earlier.........according to the AHA........more than 1/3 of adult males have heart disease.   Now add in all of the other health risk factors.......and non-heart related afflictions like diabetes......... involved with being a 300# NFL OL and you have a recipe for a very large amount of people who could have opted out."

 

This is a typical way for people without an argument to pretend they have one, you throw up a figure because numbers look great. Even if the number isn't closely related to your topic (and yours sure isn't), it'll look impressive, because it's a number. Then throw up a few generalizations and throw the mike down whether you said anything worth hearing or related to the subject or not. 

 

Your argument amounts to this:

 

-----------------

1) More than 1/3 of adult males have heart disease, and of course "adult males" includes the smokers, the alcoholics, the diabetics, the bedridden, the ones with other serious diseases, the ones in nursing homes, the ones over 100 years old, the ones over 90, over 80, over 70, and so on. (Pretending that that group can be used to look at a wildly non-random and physically unusual group such as current NFL linemen is absolutely ridiculous.)

2) Other health risk factors exist ... though I have no figures about this, much less figures that would tell anything about NFL linemen

3) None-heart related afflctions like diabetes exist ... though I have no figures about this, much less figures that would tell anything about NFL linemen

4) Therefore what I said is true and pre-existing conditions in NFL linemen are very common and usually a function of being obese.

5) Mike drop

----------------

 

Throwing out one distantly related statistic and then a bunch of even far more distantly related generalizations ... does not a serious argument make. Far from it. This isn't an argument so much as a thing constructed with words to appear to make sense.

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Mr. WEO]

On 5/27/2021 at 5:08 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's simpler than that.

 

Players who qualified got the unconditional $350K..........those who did NOT got the $150K(and that comes back out of any 2021 salary).    

 

If Star, in fact, had two very conflicting test results it's entirely possible that the mere possibility that the poor result  might be correct was enough liability risk for the league for him to get the extra $350K in guaranteed pay that he might never have seen(or have had to earn by showing up for offseason activities). 

 

Another thing people need to remember..........people are still dying from covid-19.......if Star is in fact at great risk from it and/or if he has chosen not to be vaccinated there is no guarantee he's any safer in a OTA setting than he was last year.    Maybe less so as vaxed players may be using less precaution to prevent transmitting a virus they may be carrying unknowingly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm going to point this out again.  Star presented (asymptomatic) for a predraft screening ECHO, which showed a lower than normal EF.  Soon after that, and ECHO repeated at the U of Utah followed by an MRI which showed normal heart function.  The simplest conclusion is that that whoever was banging out these ECHOs on players at the combine produced an erroneous result.  A far better facility provided conclusive evidence that he was, in fact, fine.   And this was in 2013!!  

 

Since that non-event, nothing has surfaced to suggest he has any heart condition, and he has missed 2 games in his career--none for heart issues.  .  

 

He decided (along with only 3% of NFL players) no to play, for reasons only know to him.  

[BADOLBILZ]

3 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I'm going to point this out again.  Star presented (asymptomatic) for a predraft screening ECHO, which showed a lower than normal EF.  Soon after that, and ECHO repeated at the U of Utah followed by an MRI which showed normal heart function.  The simplest conclusion is that that whoever was banging out these ECHOs on players at the combine produced an erroneous result.  A far better facility provided conclusive evidence that he was, in fact, fine.   And this was in 2013!!  

 

Since that non-event, nothing has surfaced to suggest he has any heart condition, and he has missed 2 games in his career--none for heart issues.  .  

 

He decided (along with only 3% of NFL players) no to play, for reasons only know to him.  

 

 

And for @Thurman#1 you posted a picture of Star in a loose t-shirt to show how svelte he was at the combine in 2013(where he sported an Eisen-esque 5.41 40 time)........well here is him with his belly bursting out of his spanx at Utah months earlier:

 

 

Being clinically obese goes with the territory of being an NFL OL or space eating DL.

 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

10 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

No evidence of dysfunction." Yup. No evidence of a lack of dysfunction either. 

 

Agreed with your last paragraph.

 

But the reason the doctors at the time said it was "likely" and "might" be the reason the second was normal after the first had a low ejection fraction, is that without much more detailed tests, it's the best guess. But there's no way to know without looking much further.

 

Yeah, it's a reasonable presumption. There are others that are also possible and reasonable. The doctors might well have said that was the most likely explanation. They could not really have gone beyond that with only the results of two MRIs.

 

The first test done at the combine was likely not an MRI but an echocardiogram.  A repeat echo and MRI were normal.

 

And I'm not quite sure how to interpret "no evidence of lack of dysfunction" in this context.  The usual interpretation of a medical result that shows "no evidence of dysfunction" is that there is .... no dysfunction, the test result is normal.  Most people would interpret that as evidence that there's "no evidence of a lack of dysfunction" but that's not the way it's normally phrased or interpreted.

 

So I'm not exactly sure what your point is here.

[Royale with Cheese]

9 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

If you think these 300 # guys are NOT in great physical condition because they are being paid to play football, I suggest you try to block Star Lotulelei, whether he is healthy or not. Then I suggest you try to bench what he does, whether he's let himself go or not. Don't limit yourself to Lotulelei. Block or outlift any NFL lineman.

 

You bring up Matt Birk and it's a good point. First because it shows yet more evidence of a lack of caring for the facts. That one step at a time thing is both exaggerated (the word "exhausting" was not used), nor was it Birk who talked about problems walking down stairs. That was Yanda. Carelessness with the facts. 

 

Birk's story is pretty terrific. And also illustrative. 

 

Here's a picture of him today:

 

 

6'4 and 235 pounds these days. 

 

That gives him a BMI of 28.6. 25.0 to 29.9 is over weight, so he's apparently quite overweight. 

 

And 30.0 and above is obese. 

 

Which means he's only 12 pounds away from obese. Now. The guy in that picture.

 

Yeah, makes total sense.

 

These guys are not normal. Not even close.

 

 

 

 

I was laughing my ass off when he said that.  These guys condition in season and offseason.  This is UK offseason winter conditioning for their lineman.  Not in shape right?  LOL.  I guess maybe he thinks once they get to the NFL, they just completely stop working out or conditioning or something....who knows.

And yes, he will lie and make up things to try to make a point.  He's always been that way.  He's the Vlad Ducasse of posters.

 

 

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[soflabillsfan1]

Star sucks and I hope not many people are expecting much out of him this year.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

59 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

 

I'm going to point this out again.  Star presented (asymptomatic) for a predraft screening ECHO, which showed a lower than normal EF.  Soon after that, and ECHO repeated at the U of Utah followed by an MRI which showed normal heart function.  The simplest conclusion is that that whoever was banging out these ECHOs on players at the combine produced an erroneous result.  A far better facility provided conclusive evidence that he was, in fact, fine.   And this was in 2013!!  

 

Since that non-event, nothing has surfaced to suggest he has any heart condition, and he has missed 2 games in his career--none for heart issues.  .  

 

He decided (along with only 3% of NFL players) no to play, for reasons only know to him.  

 

Just a little note here that the combine test was in late February, while the repeat Echo and MRI were in early April.  So about 5-6 weeks between the tests, which is potentially time for a transient virally-induced condition to resolve.

 

It's certainly possible that the Combine echo was erroneous, but it's also possible that it was a correct result, and detected a condition that resolved.

 

I'm not sure why one would consider one possibility "simpler" or more correct than the other - AFAIK there were not other anomolous results from the Combine screening.  It's certainly possible to produce erroneous results but

 

We don't know why Star was paid (apparently) the higher amount for opting out due to a known preexisting condition

 

 

[Mr. WEO]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just a little note here that the combine test was in late February, while the repeat Echo and MRI were in early April.  So about 5-6 weeks between the tests, which is potentially time for a transient virally-induced condition to resolve.

 

It's certainly possible that the Combine echo was erroneous, but it's also possible that it was a correct result, and detected a condition that resolved.

 

I'm not sure why one would consider one possibility "simpler" or more correct than the other - AFAIK there were not other anomolous results from the Combine screening.  It's certainly possible to produce erroneous results but

 

We don't know why Star was paid (apparently) the higher amount for opting out due to a known preexisting condition

 

 

 

Utah results were reported on April 1, but I get your point.  But people with viral cardiomyopathy aren't strolling around town feeling fine, let alone whipping themselves into shape for the NFL combine.  

 

Transthoracic ECHO's, let alone those done at a cattle call like the combine, on obese patients heave well known limitations, hence the MRI or transesophageal ECHO are usually recommended.  As for the one with the EF of 44%, I would put all my money on operator error--even if it was just for the one (44% vs 55% "normal" isn't a huge result error--this is an ultrasound on a beating heart). 

 

His heart was declared completely normal 8 years ago, so it can't be pre-existing in the typical sense for these purposes, but I'm guessing the Bills accepted it as Star's excuse to opt out. 

[Rochesterfan]

12 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Just a little note here that the combine test was in late February, while the repeat Echo and MRI were in early April.  So about 5-6 weeks between the tests, which is potentially time for a transient virally-induced condition to resolve.

 

It's certainly possible that the Combine echo was erroneous, but it's also possible that it was a correct result, and detected a condition that resolved.

 

I'm not sure why one would consider one possibility "simpler" or more correct than the other - AFAIK there were not other anomolous results from the Combine screening.  It's certainly possible to produce erroneous results but

 

We don't know why Star was paid (apparently) the higher amount for opting out due to a known preexisting condition

 

 

 

6 minutes ago, Mr. WEO said:

 

Utah results were reported on April 1, but I get your point.  But people with viral cardiomyopathy aren't strolling around town feeling fine, let alone whipping themselves into shape for the NFL combine.  

 

Transthoracic ECHO's, let alone those done at a cattle call like the combine, on obese patients heave well known limitations, hence the MRI or transesophageal ECHO are usually recommended.  As for the one with the EF of 44%, I would put all my money on operator error--even if it was just for the one (44% vs 55% "normal" isn't a huge result error--this is an ultrasound on a beating heart). 

 

His heart was declared completely normal 8 years ago, so it can't be pre-existing in the typical sense for these purposes, but I'm guessing the Bills accepted it as Star's excuse to opt out. 

 

Just as an aside, I saw others posted he was considered a high risk opt out and assumed they checked.  
 

I just tried to dig it up and on the 3 different sites that listed opt outs by category - Star was listed as a voluntary opt out on all 3.

 

There was a nice description of the required medical diagnosis that had to be attached to their medical records prior to opting out to be considered by the league for the higher level.  Several Heart issues were listed, but as I said - it does not appear that Star was given the high opt out - so I am not sure that creates the listed issues.

 

Just wanted to help try and clear confusion.

[BADOLBILZ]

16 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

I was laughing my ass off when he said that.  These guys condition in season and offseason.  This is UK offseason winter conditioning for their lineman.  Not in shape right?  LOL.  I guess maybe he thinks once they get to the NFL, they just completely stop working out or conditioning or something....who knows.

And yes, he will lie and make up things to try to make a point.  He's always been that way.  He's the Vlad Ducasse of posters.

 

 

 

 

 

The obese can do athletic things too.   I don't want to open the floor for you to stereotype asians again but NFL OL are the US sporting equivalent of Sumo's.  

 

I don't care who you are.......consuming 8,000 calories a day all-year-round to simply to hold your weight is not a healthy lifestyle.   But force= MASS x acceleration......so being fat is simply a requirement.   

 

I'd also add that the perception that these big guys are training hard every day of their 6-7 months off is not reality.   Show me a guy whose dragging around 70-80 extra pounds of flesh and training hard every day and I will show you a guy with a bad back and joint problems.   They gotta go out on the field and push or block another fat guy for 2-3 seconds 60 times per game with long rest periods between every 4-12 snaps over a 3 hour period.   They aren't training to run 6-8 miles per game 3x per week like a basketball player........both pro athletes........very different levels of conditioning.    Part of staying fat is being relatively sedentary.

[Royale with Cheese]

6 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The obese can do athletic things too.   I don't want to open the floor for you to stereotype asians again but NFL OL are the US sporting equivalent of Sumo's.  

 

I don't care who you are.......consuming 8,000 calories a day all-year-round to simply to hold your weight is not a healthy lifestyle.   But force= MASS x acceleration......so being fat is simply a requirement.   

 

I'd also add that the perception that these big guys are training hard every day of their 6-7 months off is not reality.   Show me a guy whose dragging around 70-80 extra pounds of flesh and training hard every day and I will show you a guy with a bad back and joint problems.   They gotta go out on the field and push or block another fat guy for 2-3 seconds 60 times per game with long rest periods between every 4-12 snaps over a 3 hour period.   They aren't training to run 6-8 miles per game 3x per week like a basketball player........both pro athletes........very different levels of conditioning.    Part of staying fat is being relatively sedentary.

Your posts just keep getting worse my lord lol.  You have no idea what you’re talking about and you keep going.  
 

I was a scholarship athlete.  I know about dieting and working out.  I train in a different sport today and nutrition is even more important.  I was a minor in Nutrition in college too.

 

Hapless has been in the medical field for decades as well lol.

 

You are unbelievable clueless.  It’s comical.
 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

The obese can do athletic things too.   I don't want to open the floor for you to stereotype asians again but NFL OL are the US sporting equivalent of Sumo's.  

 

I don't care who you are.......consuming 8,000 calories a day all-year-round to simply to hold your weight is not a healthy lifestyle.   But force= MASS x acceleration......so being fat is simply a requirement.   

 

I'd also add that the perception that these big guys are training hard every day of their 6-7 months off is not reality.   Show me a guy whose dragging around 70-80 extra pounds of flesh and training hard every day and I will show you a guy with a bad back and joint problems.   They gotta go out on the field and push or block another fat guy for 2-3 seconds 60 times per game with long rest periods between every 4-12 snaps over a 3 hour period.   They aren't training to run 6-8 miles per game 3x per week like a basketball player........both pro athletes........very different levels of conditioning.    Part of staying fat is being relatively sedentary.

 

You like to throw shade at others like "you present yourself as a medical expert.....at least on the internet" 

 

Would you care to share what your own background may be that qualifies you to pronounce on

-how consuming 8,000 calories per day all year round to hold weight is not a healthy lifestyle

-the exact off-season training regimens of NFL OL and DLmen

-when/why OL and DLmen tend to develop back and joint problems

 

I mean, you don't have to or anything, but it does seem a bit ironic that you're apparently questioning the qualifications of other posters while speaking as a medical, nutritional, exercise/fitness, obesity specialist etc.  (at least one of the other guys you dismissed has a pretty extensive background in the medical field and as an athlete - he backed away because it's kinda clear you're not into actual discussion)

 

In the meantime for general amusement, here is an article about some OL offseason training from Jon Feliciano

Quote

I’m 6’4” and weigh over 300 pounds. As an offensive lineman, people think we’re just fat and don’t have any athleticism. We have to be athletic, because we’re going up against the best athletes on the field — guys who are 6’6’’, 290, even 315 pounds who can run a 4.4. We have to block them on every play.

Put it this way: If you’re on defense and you get a sack every game, that’s a pretty good year. If you give up 16 sacks, you’re out of the league very soon.

Guys don’t think I can move the way I can. I’m really good at basketball — I was a basketball player first in high school — and I think that helps my athletic ability a lot. At Bills camp, we do a lot of obstacle course moves, and guys are really shocked at the way I move. We even have dodge ball games, and I can dodge the hell out of dodge ball.

 

Quote

Right now I’m doing a lot of boxing/MMA work to help my punch in football. It’s basically the same thing — I’m “punching” a dude on every play. But being UFC heavyweight champion of the world sounds like a great time.

I started hitting the heavy bag during the last year for conditioning on an upper-body day. It’s usually five three-minute rounds — it’s the hardest conditioning I’ve been doing. After that I’m dying.

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CCT3GGWDxBE/?utm_source=ig_embed&utm_campaign=embed_video_watch_again

 

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You like to throw shade about "you present yourself as a medical expert.....at least on the internet" (see linked post towards me)

 

To avoid the appearance of Massive Irony, would you care to share what your own background may be that qualifies you to pronounce on

-how consuming 8,000 calories per day all year round to hold weight is not a healthy lifestyle

-the exact off-season training regimens of NFL OL and DLmen

-when/why OL and DLmen tend to develop back and joint problems

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://www.livestrong.com/article/478687-the-effects-of-too-many-calories/

 

Common sense tells me that 320-330# men aren't able to train hard regularly and hold that weight or and not struggle with lower back, hip/knee/foot issues that could keep them off the field.    They do enough to maintain the mass that allows them to do their job.    Maintaining that mass leaves them with a lot of extra fat, which is stored as triglycerides which increase their risk of heart failure.

 

You ever notice how the majority of serious cardiac issues reported during training for football are 300# players like Korey Stringer or Jordan McNair?   You don't see any correlation between their obesity and their deaths?    

 

Interesting, doctor.    By all means though,  argue for the sake of arguing.

 

[BADOLBILZ]

2 hours ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Your posts just keep getting worse my lord lol.  You have no idea what you’re talking about and you keep going.  
 

I was a scholarship athlete.  I know about dieting and working out.  I train in a different sport today and nutrition is even more important.  I was a minor in Nutrition in college too.

 

Hapless has been in the medical field for decades as well lol.

 

You are unbelievable clueless.  It’s comical.
 

 

Again........because you are a chronic over-sharer everyone knows you have a phys ed degree from Jokesonville State.......you're Asian so you can use racial stereotypes liberally........and you are only once-divorced so far.

 

You don't need to keep flexing on us "idiots" about it.

 

None of your accolades precludes the rest of us from knowing that obesity can still cause serious health concerns even for pro athletes.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/aug/19/college-football-deaths-offseason-workouts

[Royale with Cheese]

21 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

You like to throw shade about "you present yourself as a medical expert.....at least on the internet" (see linked post towards me)

 

To avoid the appearance of Massive Irony, would you care to share what your own background may be that qualifies you to pronounce on

-how consuming 8,000 calories per day all year round to hold weight is not a healthy lifestyle

-the exact off-season training regimens of NFL OL and DLmen

-when/why OL and DLmen tend to develop back and joint problems

 

 

 

 

Here’s Justin Pugh’s offseason work out plan.  It’s basically the exact opposite of what our resident medical expert is saying lol.

https://www.mensjournal.com/sports/steamroller-workout-plan-how-ny-giants-lineman-justin-pugh-forges-elite-football/

 

“The most important thing coming out of the offseason is my strength training,” says Pugh. “I have to make sure that I’m as strong and explosive as I can be coming into camp. You can’t lift as much during the season and don’t want to get beaten up. You’re trying to maintain weight, and that’s where the offseason strength training comes into play.”
 

“Training is a full-time job, especially in offseason,” says Pugh. “You have seasons that are 20 games [preseason and regular season] and then potentially the playoffs—there’s never really any downtime. I am literally in the gym and training for a minimum of 2-4 hours per day all year.”
 

Have to be sedentary to be a fat man 😂 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

25 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

Again........because you are a chronic over-sharer everyone knows you have a phys ed degree from Jokesonville State.......you're Asian so you can use racial stereotypes liberally........and you are only once-divorced so far.

 

You don't need to keep flexing on us "idiots" about it.

 

None of your accolades precludes the rest of us from knowing that obesity can still cause serious health concerns even for pro athletes.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2018/aug/19/college-football-deaths-offseason-workouts

Every sports has had athletes who have over trained and died doing it.  Big men and small men.
 

This is still the complete opposite of you saying these guys aren’t in shape and lied about Matt Brik saying he was too “exhausted” to take a walk.

 

And also the part where you have to be sedentary to be a “fat man”.

Holy crap dude 😂 
 

Badol taking personal shots😂

 

45 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

https://www.livestrong.com/article/478687-the-effects-of-too-many-calories/

 

Common sense tells me that 320-330# men aren't able to train hard regularly and hold that weight or and not struggle with lower back, hip/knee/foot issues that could keep them off the field.    They do enough to maintain the mass that allows them to do their job.    Maintaining that mass leaves them with a lot of extra fat, which is stored as triglycerides which increase their risk of heart failure.

 

You ever notice how the majority of serious cardiac issues reported during training for football are 300# players like Korey Stringer or Jordan McNair?   You don't see any correlation between their obesity and their deaths?    

 

Interesting, doctor.    By all means though,  argue for the sake of arguing.

 

 😂 

 

https://www.mensjournal.com/sports/steamroller-workout-plan-how-ny-giants-lineman-justin-pugh-forges-elite-football/

 

“The most important thing coming out of the offseason is my strength training,” says Pugh. “I have to make sure that I’m as strong and explosive as I can be coming into camp. You can’t lift as much during the season and don’t want to get beaten up. You’re trying to maintain weight, and that’s where the offseason strength training comes into play.”
 

“Training is a full-time job, especially in offseason,” says Pugh. “You have seasons that are 20 games [preseason and regular season] and then potentially the playoffs—there’s never really any downtime. I am literally in the gym and training for a minimum of 2-4 hours per day all year.”

Edited May 30, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[BADOLBILZ]

32 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Here’s Justin Pugh’s offseason work out plan.  It’s basically the exact opposite of what our resident medical expert is saying lol.

https://www.mensjournal.com/sports/steamroller-workout-plan-how-ny-giants-lineman-justin-pugh-forges-elite-football/

 

“The most important thing coming out of the offseason is my strength training,” says Pugh. “I have to make sure that I’m as strong and explosive as I can be coming into camp. You can’t lift as much during the season and don’t want to get beaten up. You’re trying to maintain weight, and that’s where the offseason strength training comes into play.”
 

“Training is a full-time job, especially in offseason,” says Pugh. “You have seasons that are 20 games [preseason and regular season] and then potentially the playoffs—there’s never really any downtime. I am literally in the gym and training for a minimum of 2-4 hours per day all year.”
 

Have to be sedentary to be a fat man 😂 

 

 

 

Nobody is denying that lineman do a lot of strength training.   Muscle is a big part of the equation in creating the force to play on the line.    But muscle mass also burns a lot of calories..........so in order to also maintain a high % of body fat you can't also be doing cardio like players who require great speed, agility and endurance do.   

 

Comparing the training of an interior lineman to that of a CB or WR or RB as you are trying to do is to compare apples and oranges.    And thus, so is comparing their physical conditioning.    

  

[Royale with Cheese]

19 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Nobody is denying that lineman do a lot of strength training.   Muscle is a big part of the equation in creating the force to play on the line.    But muscle mass also burns a lot of calories..........so in order to also maintain a high % of body fat you can't also be doing cardio like players who require great speed, agility and endurance do.   

 

Comparing the training of an interior lineman to that of a CB or WR or RB as you are trying to do is to compare apples and oranges.    And thus, so is comparing their physical conditioning.    

  

Okay, I’m done 😂

You again have no clue what you’re talking about🤣

 

https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/the-nfl-lineman-workout-get-lean-stay-powerful-20150828/

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/taylor-lewan-trains-like-a-cornerback-to-play-offensive-lineman-0ap2000000344852

Edited May 30, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[BADOLBILZ]

23 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

Okay, I’m done 😂

You again have no clue what you’re talking about🤣

 

https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/the-nfl-lineman-workout-get-lean-stay-powerful-20150828/

 

 

Your argument was done when you tried to claim that 300# NFL players were not clinically obese (as defined by being 20% over their ideal body weight).

 

Everything else was just you pulling straw men out of your ass.

 

Like me pointing out that less than 2% of the US male population weighed 300# or more versus 20-25% of players on an NFL roster.............and you saying I was comparing accountants to athletes..........when my point clearly was that the demographics do not line up AT ALL.    

 

A 300# person who doesn't get any exercise of note isn't just likely to have some underlying health concerns........they may be quite dire.   An NFL lineman with 40-60# of extra blubber hanging off his otherwise muscled frame is likely to be in much better condition than a non-athlete of the same weight..........but nonetheless he is still obese and putting a good deal of stress on his body and more likely to be at risk for heart disease and other health disorders than a healthy, fit man at or near his ideal weight.

[without a drought]

I didn't feel like reading all these posts, so should the Bills cut Diggs for skipping OTA's or just let him off with a warning.

[TBBills]

54 minutes ago, without a drought said:

I didn't feel like reading all these posts, so should the Bills cut Diggs for skipping OTA's or just let him off with a warning.

Just no contract extension for him since he is our #1. Star on the other hand single handedly lost us the Championship game by eating.

[Mat68]

2 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Your argument was done when you tried to claim that 300# NFL players were not clinically obese (as defined by being 20% over their ideal body weight).

 

Everything else was just you pulling straw men out of your ass.

 

Like me pointing out that less than 2% of the US male population weighed 300# or more versus 20-25% of players on an NFL roster.............and you saying I was comparing accountants to athletes..........when my point clearly was that the demographics do not line up AT ALL.    

 

A 300# person who doesn't get any exercise of note isn't just likely to have some underlying health concerns........they may be quite dire.   An NFL lineman with 40-60# of extra blubber hanging off his otherwise muscled frame is likely to be in much better condition than a non-athlete of the same weight..........but nonetheless he is still obese and putting a good deal of stress on his body and more likely to be at risk for heart disease and other health disorders than a healthy, fit man at or near his ideal weight.

Everyone is differant.  Some guys have to workout and do cardio to get to 320.   Some guys like Spencer Brown have to intake an immense amount of calories to break 300.  Guys are either cutting weight or trying to gqin weight.  Neither is easy.  O feel like Morse, Brown and Doyle are adding weight guys.  The other guys like ford, williams, and dawkins are the other way.

[BADOLBILZ]

3 hours ago, Mat68 said:

Everyone is differant.  Some guys have to workout and do cardio to get to 320.   Some guys like Spencer Brown have to intake an immense amount of calories to break 300.  Guys are either cutting weight or trying to gqin weight.  Neither is easy.  O feel like Morse, Brown and Doyle are adding weight guys.  The other guys like ford, williams, and dawkins are the other way.

 

 

Be that as it may.........it's irrelevant to this branch of the conversation.    Nobody is claiming that every 300# player or person is equally healthy.   Being clinically obese....regardless of how you get there........ puts you in a category that is generally accepted as being at higher risk for a number of health concerns.   It's not more complicated than that.   

[GunnerBill]

11 hours ago, without a drought said:

I didn't feel like reading all these posts, so should the Bills cut Diggs for skipping OTA's or just let him off with a warning.

 

The way McDermott spoke about Diggs suggested he has been in contact and they know where he is at and when he will turn up. The way he spoke about Star indicated that they had no idea when or whether he plans to show up.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

On 5/30/2021 at 3:01 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Nobody is denying that lineman do a lot of strength training.   Muscle is a big part of the equation in creating the force to play on the line.    But muscle mass also burns a lot of calories..........so in order to also maintain a high % of body fat you can't also be doing cardio like players who require great speed, agility and endurance do.   

 

Comparing the training of an interior lineman to that of a CB or WR or RB as you are trying to do is to compare apples and oranges.    And thus, so is comparing their physical conditioning.    

  

Dawkins posts screenshots of his early morning bike rides (cardio) around Miami on Instagram.

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

20 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Dawkins posts screenshots of his early morning bike rides (cardio) around Miami on Instagram.

 

 

 

 

300# accountants ride bikes too..........when you live in a place like Miami that is flatter than piss on a platter it's actually less work than walking.

 

 

Feliciano does motocross

 

[Putin]

On 5/30/2021 at 5:20 PM, without a drought said:

I didn't feel like reading all these posts, so should the Bills cut Diggs for skipping OTA's or just let him off with a warning.

Is Diggs below average player who’s grossly overpaid and been out of football since 2019 ? If yes then cut him 
 

[Thurman#1]

On 5/31/2021 at 5:59 AM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Your argument was done when you tried to claim that 300# NFL players were not clinically obese (as defined by being 20% over their ideal body weight).

 

Everything else was just you pulling straw men out of your ass.

 

Like me pointing out that less than 2% of the US male population weighed 300# or more versus 20-25% of players on an NFL roster.............and you saying I was comparing accountants to athletes..........when my point clearly was that the demographics do not line up AT ALL.    

 

A 300# person who doesn't get any exercise of note isn't just likely to have some underlying health concerns........they may be quite dire.   An NFL lineman with 40-60# of extra blubber hanging off his otherwise muscled frame is likely to be in much better condition than a non-athlete of the same weight..........but nonetheless he is still obese and putting a good deal of stress on his body and more likely to be at risk for heart disease and other health disorders than a healthy, fit man at or near his ideal weight.

 

 

Nah, his argument wasn't done, it's just that you're not willing to get it. He's right, and on this issue, you're missing the point utterly.

 

Your assumption that the 40 to 60 pounds those NFL guys put on is only "extra blubber" is absolutely pathetically misbegotten.

 

If it were only extra blubber, they'd only get worse athletically as they put it on. Sure, a bunch of it is fat, but a ton of it is also useable muscle, connective tissue and other stuff that makes them stronger and better at what they do. If it weren't, there'd be no use in putting it on.

 

You don't get that, and that's fine. But he's still right.

 

"Ideal body weight," which you keep referring to, is a nebulous and abstract concept. Which is why the best the scientists can do is us the BMI tables. It's why Matt Birk, the new mega-cut fitness model version of Matt Birk, is only 12 pounds away from obese according to those tables. For NFL linemen, "ideal" is extremely large and wildly different for what most people would mean by the term, and in fact wildly different from what the same guys might think after their NFL careers are over.

 

You're probably right that some of them are giving themselves possible future health disorders. But that is probably more so from the contact, the abuse of their joints and so on.

 

There's a reason you can't come up with a single actual figure, any data about this based on NFL athletes rather than those based on ordinary overweight people, a reason all you're doing is bloviating on about "more likely" to be at risk. Yeah, more likely, fair enough. But one percent more likely? Two? Twenty? You haven't a clue. Nor do doctors. Because there is no way to know. 

 

You can keep kidding yourself ... as you are in this thread again and again ... that stats that relate to, as you say, "a 300# person who doesn't get any exercise of note" can be used with any relevance for these guys guys who are in a professional athletic development program and are among the best in the world at what they do, but that is indeed, what you are doing ... kidding yourself. 

 

And attempting unsuccessfully to kid others. You've been challenged again and again here to come up with numbers and proof based not on ordinary overweight non-exercisers but on professional athletes such as NFL linemen. Challenged again and again, you've been completely unsuccessful at producing those numbers, and you'll continue to be unsuccessful. They don't exist.

 

Using stats for unfit overweight, enfeebled obese people and applying them to these guys is like applying stats for mice to lions and thinking you're making a point. You obviously aren't willing to get this, but that doesn't make it your numbers less obviously irrelevant.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

The way McDermott spoke about Diggs suggested he has been in contact and they know where he is at and when he will turn up. The way he spoke about Star indicated that they had no idea when or whether he plans to show up.

 

 

That's one guess. What was your take on whether he'd been in touch with Sanders? Or the overwhelming majority of the veteran DLs who also missed these?

 

I just saw irritation myself. I think assuming that meant they hadn't talked to him is reading too much into it. Irritation has many possible causes. Including questions being perceived as annoying. Many others as well.

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, Putin said:

Is Diggs below average player who’s grossly overpaid and been out of football since 2019 ? If yes then cut him 
 

 

 

Right. Good explanation of why we shouldn't cut any of the guys on the roster. None of them are remotely as you described them here.

[Thurman#1]

On 5/31/2021 at 8:21 AM, Mat68 said:

Everyone is differant.  Some guys have to workout and do cardio to get to 320.   Some guys like Spencer Brown have to intake an immense amount of calories to break 300.  Guys are either cutting weight or trying to gqin weight.  Neither is easy.  O feel like Morse, Brown and Doyle are adding weight guys.  The other guys like ford, williams, and dawkins are the other way.

 

 

Right.

 

And for guys like these, 300, 310 or 320 is their ideal weight for right now. That's why they're struggling to get there.

 

After their careers, their ideal weight, when they're not regularly being paid millions of dollars to impose their will on other guys who are world-class people-movers, will change quite a bit as they adjust to a new lifestyle.

[Thurman#1]

On 5/31/2021 at 5:16 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

Okay, I’m done 😂

You again have no clue what you’re talking about🤣

 

https://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/the-nfl-lineman-workout-get-lean-stay-powerful-20150828/

 

https://www.nfl.com/news/taylor-lewan-trains-like-a-cornerback-to-play-offensive-lineman-0ap2000000344852

 

 

Yup. It's kind of funny to watch people try to make these arguments. You keep asking for figures, they keep giving figures that are irrelevant for world-class ath-a-letes, which these guys unquestionably are.

 

 

 

On 5/28/2021 at 4:46 AM, Royale with Cheese said:

 

Wow.  

 

You cannot use the general population as evidence when comparing professional football players.  How many times does this need to be explained to you?  Why is this so hard for you?

 

You're mocking Hapless for being a "medical expert" but you're telling us you know most big men have underlying conditions?  What is wrong with you?

 

Those are Matt Birk's words, he said it, not me.  He specifically mentions he had to change his diet after he retired because he wasn't going through grueling practices anymore.  How does it not make sense that NFL big men at 300# aren't the same as your general population at the same weight?  How is this so hard for you....my god.

 

 

Yup. Precisely. The guy worked like a dog to get to his ideal weight when a player. Then he did it again afterwards when his ideal weight changed.

 

He wants to argue that most NFL athletes have underlying conditions beyond the weight itself. And there's no clinical evidence of that for these guys. So he throws out generalizations like a cook throwing spaghetti against the wall hoping it'll stick. 

 

But then turning away and refusing to see it bounce off.

 

 

Edited June 1, 2021 by Thurman#1

[GunnerBill]

8 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

That's one guess. What was your take on whether he'd been in touch with Sanders? Or the overwhelming majority of the veteran DLs who also missed these?

 

I just saw irritation myself. I think assuming that meant they hadn't talked to him is reading too much into it. Irritation has many possible causes. Including questions being perceived as annoying. Many others as well.

 

He didn't speak specifically on those that I saw. But he did speak specifically on Diggs and on Star and the difference in what he was willing to say was striking. 

[Royale with Cheese]

14 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

Dawkins posts screenshots of his early morning bike rides (cardio) around Miami on Instagram.

 

 

 

A focus on fitness in the offseason has helped Dawkins take 653 snaps and counting this year. Dawkins’ preferred cardio workout was riding a bike. He got up to a 52-mile ride.

“I never thought I could do it,” said the 6-foot-5, 320-pounder. “I honestly think it was a different part in my process in the offseason that gave me that little bit of kick for the season. It’s definitely cardio – strength, we’re all strong, we’re all pretty fast – but that cardio is literally what separates you from an elite to a great. That’s what I’m trying to adapt in every part of my game. If you can outlast somebody, then you’re going to be dominant in the fourth quarter.”

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/dion-dawkins-giving-the-bills-a-solid-return-on-investment/article_48868902-2ea3-11eb-9c62-eb5d0c7ad3a5.html

 

Remember when our resident medical expert said that big men don't do much cardio?  Completely lied that Matt Birk said he was too exhausted to walk?

So we've got Feliciano saying he does MMA workouts, which I do too and I can tell you it's as tough as you can get.

Dawkins biking up to 52 miles.

Taylor Lewan training with the cornerbacks.

Justin Pugh doing ladder drills, boxing and swimming.

 

Here's 320 lbs Tristan Wirfs jumping out of pool.  How does a fat and sedentary man do this?

 

Of all the fattest big men, Vince Wolfork used to swim A LOT.  Swimming to me is the hardest cardio there is.

 

https://www.bostonherald.com/2012/01/06/swimming-proves-beneficial-for-vince-wilfork/

 

Asked how he worked himself into shape and maintained his fitness, Wilfork credits his diligence in the pool, both at home in Florida during the offseason and in Foxboro.

Wilfork swims under water. Push aside the comical visual of the 6-foot-2, 325-plus pounder displacing gallons of water. This is not a joke.

“What I do is I go over and back underwater,” Wilfork said. “Rest 10 seconds and I’m back up under. I do 20 of those. And that completes it. That’s your workout for the day.”

“You getting some good work without having to beat your body up,” said Wilfork, who does the routine every night in the offseason. “I could tell the difference when I was in training camp. In training camp, you normally have those days when you’re like, ‘Man, I’m so tired.’ But I really didn’t have those days. Eventually, you’ll get ’em just because you’re going and going. But it didn’t happen as quick. And then your recovery is a lot faster.”

 

Here's Suh talking about working out in conditions like Miami because it's tougher.  And oh yeah...a lot of cardio.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ndamukong-suh-trains-in-nike-top-secret-training-chamber-to-prep-for-miami-humidity.amp

"Because of personal and business interests in Omaha and Portland, Suh wasn't a full-time participant in Miami's offseason conditioning program. However, he was able to acclimate himself to the sticky South Florida climate through what he calls a "top-secret" training chamber at Nike headquarters in Portland.

"Nike has the technology to simulate the exact temperature and humidity for each day at Dolphins headquarters in Davie, and Suh worked on his cardio through biking and treadmill running.

 

@Thurman#1

 

If he argues now that biking, swimming, boxing/MMA and running aren't cardio workouts, he's trolling at this point.

Edited June 1, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[Dopey]

On 5/27/2021 at 11:21 AM, BUFFALOBART said:

It's more about having a legacy of 'doing nothing'.

That's a false narrative that stat boys come up with. Sounds like you're a stat boy. I trust our coaches over whiny stat boys. Our run defense is better with ⭐ in the trenches. But if you expect big #s from him, you have no clue. "Legacy of doing nothing" what a joke. Smarter guys than you decided stat boys don't know jack.

[BADOLBILZ]

9 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

 

A focus on fitness in the offseason has helped Dawkins take 653 snaps and counting this year. Dawkins’ preferred cardio workout was riding a bike. He got up to a 52-mile ride.

“I never thought I could do it,” said the 6-foot-5, 320-pounder. “I honestly think it was a different part in my process in the offseason that gave me that little bit of kick for the season. It’s definitely cardio – strength, we’re all strong, we’re all pretty fast – but that cardio is literally what separates you from an elite to a great. That’s what I’m trying to adapt in every part of my game. If you can outlast somebody, then you’re going to be dominant in the fourth quarter.”

 

https://buffalonews.com/sports/bills/dion-dawkins-giving-the-bills-a-solid-return-on-investment/article_48868902-2ea3-11eb-9c62-eb5d0c7ad3a5.html

 

Remember when our resident medical expert said that big men don't do much cardio?  Completely lied that Matt Birk said he was too exhausted to walk?

So we've got Feliciano saying he does MMA workouts, which I do too and I can tell you it's as tough as you can get.

Dawkins biking up to 52 miles.

Taylor Lewan training with the cornerbacks.

Justin Pugh doing ladder drills, boxing and swimming.

 

Here's 320 lbs Tristan Wirfs jumping out of pool.  How does a fat and sedentary man do this?

 

Of all the fattest big men, Vince Wolfork used to swim A LOT.  Swimming to me is the hardest cardio there is.

 

https://www.bostonherald.com/2012/01/06/swimming-proves-beneficial-for-vince-wilfork/

 

Asked how he worked himself into shape and maintained his fitness, Wilfork credits his diligence in the pool, both at home in Florida during the offseason and in Foxboro.

Wilfork swims under water. Push aside the comical visual of the 6-foot-2, 325-plus pounder displacing gallons of water. This is not a joke.

“What I do is I go over and back underwater,” Wilfork said. “Rest 10 seconds and I’m back up under. I do 20 of those. And that completes it. That’s your workout for the day.”

“You getting some good work without having to beat your body up,” said Wilfork, who does the routine every night in the offseason. “I could tell the difference when I was in training camp. In training camp, you normally have those days when you’re like, ‘Man, I’m so tired.’ But I really didn’t have those days. Eventually, you’ll get ’em just because you’re going and going. But it didn’t happen as quick. And then your recovery is a lot faster.”

 

Here's Suh talking about working out in conditions like Miami because it's tougher.  And oh yeah...a lot of cardio.

https://www.foxnews.com/sports/ndamukong-suh-trains-in-nike-top-secret-training-chamber-to-prep-for-miami-humidity.amp

"Because of personal and business interests in Omaha and Portland, Suh wasn't a full-time participant in Miami's offseason conditioning program. However, he was able to acclimate himself to the sticky South Florida climate through what he calls a "top-secret" training chamber at Nike headquarters in Portland.

"Nike has the technology to simulate the exact temperature and humidity for each day at Dolphins headquarters in Davie, and Suh worked on his cardio through biking and treadmill running.

 

@Thurman#1

 

If he argues now that biking, swimming, boxing/MMA and running aren't cardio workouts, he's trolling at this point.

 

 

 

I thought you were "done", scarecrow?

 

Nope, just more of the false narrative claiming that I am saying obese people can't be athletic or powerful.   This guy is NOT an NFL lineman:

 

 

Here's the latest from AHA about obesity:

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIR.0000000000000973

[Royale with Cheese]

13 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

I thought you were "done", scarecrow?

 

Nope, just more of the false narrative claiming that I am saying obese people can't be athletic or powerful.   This guy is NOT an NFL lineman:

 

 

Here's the latest from AHA about obesity:

 

https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161/CIR.0000000000000973

 

I got time this morning.

Not just powerful and athletic....cardio too.

You said they aren't in good cardio shape and that in order to remain "fat", have a relatively sedentary lifestyle.  Which is simply untrue.  

Again, you can't compare the general population to professional athletes.  Why is this so hard to understand? Seriously.

 

It is absolute common sense that exercise helps reduce the cardiovascular disease and you ignore that every time.  Professional offensive NFL lineman have a very strong workout regimen.  When you workout more, you heart gets stronger.  A sedentary person is at a much higher risk than a non-sedentary person.  I can't believe this has to be explained to you yet again. 

 

"Sedentary behavior and physical inactivity are among the leading modifiable risk factors worldwide for cardiovascular disease and all-cause mortality. The promotion of physical activity and exercise training (ET) leading to improved levels of cardiorespiratory fitness is needed in all age groups, race, and ethnicities and both sexes to prevent many chronic diseases, especially cardiovascular disease. In this state-of-the-art review, we discuss the negative impact of sedentary behavior and physical inactivity, as well as the beneficial effects of physical activity /ET and cardiorespiratory fitness for the prevention of chronic noncommunicable diseases, including cardiovascular disease."

 

Here's you saying they aren't in good cardio shape lol!  Too exhausted to walk lmfao!

[BarleyNY]

30 minutes ago, Dopey said:

That's a false narrative that stat boys come up with. Sounds like you're a stat boy. I trust our coaches over whiny stat boys. Our run defense is better with ⭐ in the trenches. But if you expect big #s from him, you have no clue. "Legacy of doing nothing" what a joke. Smarter guys than you decided stat boys don't know jack.

Did you catch that Bills-Browns game replay?  I watched Star in the first half.  He saw one double team in that half - where he got blown into the secondary and the RB ran through his gap.  Beyond that I saw one blocker handle him pretty easily.  He didn’t occupy two blockers, anchor well, keep the LBs clean or make any impact that I saw.  He was a lot better chasing plays laterally than I thought he’d be, but I didn’t see him make much of an impact with that either.

 

I know that’s just one half of one game, but when I’ve watched him in others I’ve seen the same.  If someone wants to point me to a game where he made a big, positive impact I’ll cue it up on GamePass.