A Lot of Bills stars Were at OTA's But 1 Star Was Not .

[BADOLBILZ]

16 minutes ago, Royale with Cheese said:

LOL, the pettiness you’ll go to.

This is worse than your “25 is over the hill for a RB”.

Cripes.

 

 

Again.......you thought I wrote 300+.........I wrote 300#..........you misread it........making it a totally different point.😂

 

Go down to your local Dollar Tree and get a pair of these:

 

 

 

[T master]

10 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

 

 

Also, fwiw I really don't think him not being here for volunataries is a sign of anything.    I suspect he will suck or not play for the Bills at all this season,  but 10 year vets often don't show for these things.   He has the least complex job on the entire defense and this isn't a new install...........even if he didn't suck he wouldn't need to be at this OTA.   

 

I agree i was just wondering after sitting for so long and watching what the rest of his team mates did last season i just thought those that did opt out would be a bit stir crazy & be looking to get back at it is all ...

[The_Ripster]

all that freedom last season means Star been using the HGH for a full year now, he's gonna be a force. 😂

I saw a trend with vets being away in the depth heavy positions. it seems like they only really wanted rooks and guys under the microscope there.

[BigDingus]

I don't care what anyone says, I'm excited to have Star come back. People have been dogging on him for one reason or another since he was first signed, and he basically stayed quiet. 

I think him staying out of the spotlight & the media, remaining so quiet, has lead to fans creating their own narratives of what it all means. Not being at OTA's just reinforces their predetermined ideas that he doesn't want to be here or something.

Has Star said that though? If not, I fully expect him to be here when it matters.

[BigAl2526]

On 5/26/2021 at 9:23 AM, Boxcar said:

What's the point in calling something voluntary if you don't consider it to be voluntary.

"Voluntary" means you don't get fined if you don't do it.  Obviously, it is More voluntary for some than for others as some players are a lock to have a roster spot whether they show up or not - Stefon Diggs  for example.  Other players face a huge battle just to make the team failing to participate in OTAs may not be a disqualifier for making the team in itself, but in a competition where the final decisions are based on very small differences between players, those players had better regard OTAs as mandatory.  

[Thurman#1]

On 5/26/2021 at 9:39 PM, T master said:

I read a piece today on those that didn't show up for voluntary OTA's and i realize it is "Voluntary" and in some instances i get it once the team activities start these guys have to spend time away from their family and get at the grind of the season, some are healing from off season surgeries or just clearing their heads getting ready for the season .

 

But I'm wondering about those like the Bills Star L. that has had a entire year off why wouldn't he be back just to get back in a flow ? In some small way it makes me question his motivation .

 

I also wonder did those that opted out last season still get paid ? I believe there must have been some compensation ( but making the cash they do we all could take a yr off & it wouldn't hurt the old checking acct.) wasn't their cap hit moved to this year and what were some of the other things with opting out i'm definitely not p on all that stuff .

 

But after sitting all last season watching the Bills Kick A** & take names being AFC east champs but not participating i for one would think that Star would be chomping at the bit to get back with the team but actions speak louder than words !!

 

I could see Diggs taking some time he played injured towards the end of the season and i in no way do i doubt he will be ready & all in when he is fully recovered from the surgery he had this off season so i will give him a pass along with Hughes and some others but just from the outside looking in i would think Star would be one that would want to get back with his mates to play some ball again .

 

 

This looks to me like, "I'll give a pass to the guys I like, but not to the guy I don't."

 

Again, Star had a pre-existing condition and we don't know what his doctors have said about getting vaccinated, and he can't have been very confident that this will have been a safe environment for a guy who's still worried about COVID.

 

I have no idea whether this is still a concern for him, but it certainly could be.

[Thurman#1]

16 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's time for reading glasses dude.

 

I didn't say 300+..........I said 300#.

 

 

 

 

Dude, assuming that by # you mean "pounds," he completely gets that, has all along, and is still waiting for you to answer his question.

 

Star weighs more than 300, thus 300+ pounds is what he is, and that's how we all read it.

[Thurman#1]

Just now, BUFFALOBART said:

It's more about having a legacy of 'doing nothing'.

 

 

Great, then if we're talking about maybe Fromm or maybe Jordan Devey, who took two snaps last year, you'd have something.

 

Having a legacy of doing nothing ain't Lotulelei. Star does a lot. He doesn't run up the stats many would like to see, but he does what McDermott wants him to do, and as long as he hasn't regressed, he will make life quite a bit easier on Oliver and Edmunds.

[BADOLBILZ]

10 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Dude, assuming that by # you mean "pounds," he completely gets that, has all along, and is still waiting for you to answer his question.

 

Star weighs more than 300, thus 300+ pounds is what he is, and that's how we all read it.

 

 

@Royale with Cheese was trying to pull a straw man........out of pettiness, I assume.

 

He said that I claimed that all 300 POUND lineman had underlying health conditions. 

 

Here is what I said:

 

"And that issue is usually very much a function of being overweight and obese.   Like all 300# NFL lineman."

 

The definition of obesity is being 20% or more over your ideal weight.

 

Now you can argue whether there are a handful of 300# players that are not 20% over their ideal weight...........but those would be exceptions.   Maybe you think guys who have to wake up in the middle of the night to eat so they don't lose weight in their sleep are living a very healthy lifestyle but I would suggest otherwise.   Even the "leaner" OL are actually carrying a lot of extra weight to be able to play the position.  

[Thurman#1]

23 hours ago, H2o said:

This is Star's last year in Buffalo, maybe even football altogether. Hopefully he shows up ready to contribute. He will not be cut this year though because of his cap number. Nothing to see here unless he dips out on mandatory mini camp. 

 

 

That's certainly one opinion.

 

Nothing particular behind it, though. He could very very easily be here through 2022 or even 2023. No reason to think he won't, and that they didn't draft a 1-tech space eater definitely raised the odds he'll be here at least a couple of years.

 

Now, if he regresses, yeah, he'll be gone after this year. But he easily might play very well. No reason to think he won't.

[uninja]

4 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

Great, then if we're talking about maybe Fromm or maybe Jordan Devey, who took two snaps last year, you'd have something.

 

Having a legacy of doing nothing ain't Lotulelei. Star does a lot. He doesn't run up the stats many would like to see, but he does what McDermott wants him to do, and as long as he hasn't regressed, he will make life quite a bit easier on Oliver and Edmunds.

 

This is exactly it, he plays the 1T/NT position on a DL. He's NEVER going to light up the stat sheet. 

[Royale with Cheese]

10 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

@Royale with Cheese was trying to pull a straw man........out of pettiness, I assume.

 

He said that I claimed that all 300 POUND lineman had underlying health conditions. 

 

Here is what I said:

 

"And that issue is usually very much a function of being overweight and obese.   Like all 300# NFL lineman."

 

The definition of obesity is being 20% or more over your ideal weight.

 

Now you can argue whether there are a handful of 300# players that are not 20% over their ideal weight...........but those would be exceptions.   Maybe you think guys who have to wake up in the middle of the night to eat so they don't lose weight in their sleep are living a very healthy lifestyle but I would suggest otherwise.   Even the "leaner" OL are actually carrying a lot of extra weight to be able to play the position.  

 

My god you are so sensitive.  Look at how worked up you're getting over this.  LOL

37 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Dude, assuming that by # you mean "pounds," he completely gets that, has all along, and is still waiting for you to answer his question.

 

Star weighs more than 300, thus 300+ pounds is what he is, and that's how we all read it.

 

Thank you.  

[NewEra]

44 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

This looks to me like, "I'll give a pass to the guys I like, but not to the guy I don't."

 

Again, Star had a pre-existing condition and we don't know what his doctors have said about getting vaccinated, and he can't have been very confident that this will have been a safe environment for a guy who's still worried about COVID.

 

I have no idea whether this is still a concern for him, but it certainly could be.

I didn’t read the entire thread so apologies if it was already stated, but what is Stars “preexisting condition”?  The test that stated he had a heart condition prior to him being drafted was incorrect.  Was there someone thing else im unaware of, or is his “condition” just being fat?

https://www.nfl.com/news/top-prospect-star-lotulelei-gets-positive-news-on-heart-0ap1000000156468

 

 

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, NewEra said:

I didn’t read the entire thread so apologies if it was already stated, but what is Stars “preexisting condition”?  The test that stated he had a heart condition prior to him being drafted was incorrect.  Was there someone thing else im unaware of, or is his “condition” just being fat?

https://www.nfl.com/news/top-prospect-star-lotulelei-gets-positive-news-on-heart-0ap1000000156468

 

 

 

 

You ask if there's something you're unaware of? Um, yeah. That being the problem. And I'm not the guy with the details.

 

Unless you have access to all of Star's private medical records and are thus as aware of what his problems are and what details might have been made available to him anytime over the past seven years that might not have been reported in the paper ... you just don't know. 

 

Again, neither do I. Nor does anyone but Star and his doctor. 

 

And by the way, what the articles about Star's second group of tests all say is that the first reading "might" have been caused by a virus and was "likely transient."

 

"Likely." And since then we haven't heard any more. Has he? 

 

So I don't know the full extent of Star's "preexisting condition." Nor do you. 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

@Royale with Cheese was trying to pull a straw man........out of pettiness, I assume.

 

He said that I claimed that all 300 POUND lineman had underlying health conditions. 

 

Here is what I said:

 

"And that issue is usually very much a function of being overweight and obese.   Like all 300# NFL lineman."

 

The definition of obesity is being 20% or more over your ideal weight.

 

Now you can argue whether there are a handful of 300# players that are not 20% over their ideal weight...........but those would be exceptions.   Maybe you think guys who have to wake up in the middle of the night to eat so they don't lose weight in their sleep are living a very healthy lifestyle but I would suggest otherwise.   Even the "leaner" OL are actually carrying a lot of extra weight to be able to play the position.  

 

 

 

Well if this was the problem, why didn't you say so instead of repeatedly going on about 300+ and 300#? There was never any problem with his understanding there, you were the one using the straw man.

 

And another. You quoted this:

 

On 5/26/2021 at 10:33 PM, machine gun kelly said:

He has an ejection fraction of 44 vs. the norm of 55-70.  That’s a precursor to CHF.  He had a legitimate medical condition and this was negotiated last year by the NFLPA and the league.

 

 

... and replied this:

 

On 5/26/2021 at 10:49 PM, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

And that issue is usually very much a function of being overweight and obese.   Like all 300# NFL lineman.   

 

Not a matter of if I agree with it or not.    The majority of at risk players showed up and played.  

 

Star was an unusual case because he is making the small circles around the drain of his NFL career and his salary was fully guaranteed.    He had a lot of motivation to take the opt out and not expose himself to the risk that the normies and at-risk but financially less-secure were. 

 

 

 

You acted like you knew his problem was a function of being overweight. You have no clue. It could be. But equally it might not. You say, "that issue is usually very much a function of being overweight and obese." The issue being referred to in the post you replied to was that he "had an ejection fraction of 44 vs. the norm of 55-70. That's a precursor to CHF." And you report that this is usually a function of being overweight and obese. Apparently you feel it's got nothing to do with HBP, age, diabetes, hypertension  or simple heart disease. In that case, lots of NFL linemen must have that problem, because you're right that many to most are obese. Could we see the data on that, as Royal has asked you several times? Could you show us where just being obese is "usually" causing this. I'd love to see the data, particularly in guys between 22 and 30 who exercise to where they're strong as bulls?

 

"At risk players" comprises a very wide spectrum. You don't know where he ... or anyone else ... falls on that spectrum. 

 

What we do know, though, is that a Bills player who is very much non-obese, had no known pre-existing conditions and is much younger than Star, Tommy Sweeney, got COVID and missed the season with myocarditis, the same heart condition that young, non-obese pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez got after catching COVID, the announcement of which came just as Star was considering opting out.

 

And your idea that opting out was good financially for Star is just butt-stupid. He had zero motivation to take the opt out if you look at if financially. Zero. 

 

Either way he receives the guaranteed money, the exact same amount. But he either receives all of it in 2020 or $150K in 2020 and the rest in 2021. Same amount a year later. Any person with a functioning brain cell knows that getting money earlier means it can work for you. It's always better to get it early. Opting out also meant that when he was coming back for year 3, he'd be a year older. At his age, that's significant. He shortened his career length by a year which will very likely cost him money. Whenever the Bills let him go, he'll be a year older and be paid less by whoever he plays with. If he retires, he'll have a year less to get to work on looking at a new career.

 

Financially this was bad for Star.

 

He's already been paid tens of millions. If he wanted to maximize his cash, he'd have played.

 

He didn't do this because it made sense financially. It sure looks like he did it for the most obvious reason around, that he was worried about COVID ... and for good reason.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Thurman#1

[Thurman#1]

 

The obese Star Lotulelei sitting out the combine.

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/04/02/star-lotulelei-heart-test/2047363/

 

 

[BADOLBILZ]

38 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

 

Well if this was the problem, why didn't you say so instead of repeatedly going on about 300+ and 300#? There was never any problem with his understanding there, you were the one using the straw man.

 

And another. You quoted this:

 

 

... and replied this:

 

 

 

You acted like you knew his problem was a function of being overweight. You have no clue. It could be. But equally it might not. You say, "that issue is usually very much a function of being overweight and obese." The issue being referred to in the post you replied to was that he "had an ejection fraction of 44 vs. the norm of 55-70. That's a precursor to CHF." And you report that this is usually a function of being overweight and obese. Apparently you feel it's got nothing to do with HBP, age, diabetes, hypertension  or simple heart disease. In that case, lots of NFL linemen must have that problem, because you're right that many to most are obese. Could we see the data on that, as Royal has asked you several times? Could you show us where just being obese is "usually" causing this. I'd love to see the data, particularly in guys between 22 and 30 who exercise to where they're strong as bulls?

 

"At risk players" comprises a very wide spectrum. You don't know where he ... or anyone else ... falls on that spectrum. 

 

What we do know, though, is that a Bills player who is very much non-obese, had no known pre-existing conditions and is much younger than Star, Tommy Sweeney, got COVID and missed the season with myocarditis, the same heart condition that young, non-obese pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez got after catching COVID, the announcement of which came just as Star was considering opting out.

 

And your idea that opting out was good financially for Star is just butt-stupid. He had zero motivation to take the opt out if you look at if financially. Zero. 

 

Either way he receives the guaranteed money, the exact same amount. But he either receives all of it in 2020 or $150K in 2020 and the rest in 2021. Same amount a year later. Any person with a functioning brain cell knows that getting money earlier means it can work for you. It's always better to get it early. Opting out also meant that when he was coming back for year 3, he'd be a year older. At his age, that's significant. He shortened his career length by a year which will very likely cost him money. Whenever the Bills let him go, he'll be a year older and be paid less by whoever he plays with. If he retires, he'll have a year less to get to work on looking at a new career.

 

Financially this was bad for Star.

 

He's already been paid tens of millions. If he wanted to maximize his cash, he'd have played.

 

He didn't do this because it made sense financially. It sure looks like he did it for the most obvious reason around, that he was worried about COVID ... and for good reason.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

1) Honestly,  the question was so unrelated to what I actually said that I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he misread it.    He could have addressed that,  he chose not to because he knew his question was chaff with a hat.  

 

2) As I said earlier.........according to the AHA........more than 1/3 of adult males have heart disease.   Now add in all of the other health risk factors.......and non-heart related afflictions like diabetes......... involved with being a 300# NFL OL and you have a recipe for a very large amount of people who could have opted out.    

 

I could straw man YOU here and say.........."you are saying that nobody with underlying medical conditions did NOT opt out"..........but the reality is that even you and @Royale with Cheese know that there were inevitably MANY more players with them that played than with them that opted out.    It's a statistical certainty.

 

If you want to continue to argue.........I will continue to make fun of each of your illogical takes.    

 

And as with your predecessor in this argument.........refrain from calling people or their takes stupid or idiotic etc.......non-descript, de-humanizing terms are unproductive for advancing discussion.........that's just a sign that you are out of control with your anger.    Keep it together.

[NewEra]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You ask if there's something you're unaware of? Um, yeah. That being the problem. And I'm not the guy with the details.

 

Unless you have access to all of Star's private medical records and are thus as aware of what his problems are and what details might have been made available to him anytime over the past seven years that might not have been reported in the paper ... you just don't know. 

 

Again, neither do I. Nor does anyone but Star and his doctor. 

 

And by the way, what the articles about Star's second group of tests all say is that the first reading "might" have been caused by a virus and was "likely transient."

 

"Likely." And since then we haven't heard any more. Has he? 

 

So I don't know the full extent of Star's "preexisting condition." Nor do you. 

 

I never said I knew.....hence the question.  
 

So we have no idea if Star has a preexisting condition or not.  Those saying he does have a preexisting condition, have no proof.  Those saying that he doesn’t, have no proof.  
 

 

[Royale with Cheese]

23 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

1) Honestly,  the question was so unrelated to what I actually said that I was giving him the benefit of the doubt that he misread it.    He could have addressed that,  he chose not to because he knew his question was chaff with a hat.  

 

2) As I said earlier.........according to the AHA........more than 1/3 of adult males have heart disease.   Now add in all of the other health risk factors.......and non-heart related afflictions like diabetes......... involved with being a 300# NFL OL and you have a recipe for a very large amount of people who could have opted out.    

 

I could straw man YOU here and say.........."you are saying that nobody with underlying medical conditions did NOT opt out"..........but the reality is that even you and @Royale with Cheese know that there were inevitably MANY more players with them that played than with them that opted out.    It's a statistical certainty.

 

If you want to continue to argue.........I will continue to make fun of each of your illogical takes.    

 

And as with your predecessor in this argument.........refrain from calling people or their takes stupid or idiotic etc.......non-descript, de-humanizing terms are unproductive for advancing discussion.........that's just a sign that you are out of control with your anger.    Keep it together.

 

The fact that you cannot understand the difference between 300 lbs professional athlete and 300 lbs regular Joe is astonishing.

Like jaw dropping.

 

You have no idea the medical conditions of these offensive and defensive lineman....none.  Quit pretending like you do.  It's just nonsense.

Diabetes you say?  There are only 2 known NFL players who are known to have diabetes.

 

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Royale with Cheese

[Hapless Bills Fan]

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You ask if there's something you're unaware of? Um, yeah. That being the problem. And I'm not the guy with the details.

 

Unless you have access to all of Star's private medical records and are thus as aware of what his problems are and what details might have been made available to him anytime over the past seven years that might not have been reported in the paper ... you just don't know. 

 

Again, neither do I. Nor does anyone but Star and his doctor. 

 

And by the way, what the articles about Star's second group of tests all say is that the first reading "might" have been caused by a virus and was "likely transient."

 

"Likely." And since then we haven't heard any more. Has he? 

 

So I don't know the full extent of Star's "preexisting condition." Nor do you. 

 

 

Hi.  The article quoted by NewEra said that the repeat MRI back when Star was drafted found "no evidence of dysfunction".

 

A low ejection fraction would be a dysfunction, usually caused by an underlying abnormality detectable by MRI.

 

Therefore it's a reasonable presumption that the low ejection fraction found on the first exam was a transient condition.  If it weren't transient, the abnormality would have been found in the MRI.

 

The most common cause of a transient low ejection volume (to my knowledge, not a cardiologist) is cardiomyopathy due to a recent viral infection. 

 

However, it's a valid point that none of us have access to Star's medical records since the draft, therefore it's an inappropriate conclusion that he has no medical reason for wishing to opt out.  His heart condition may have evolved, or there might be a different preexisting condition (such as diabetes) that puts him at higher risk than just being a big dude.