Buffalo716 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, The Wiz said: I understand your point with these numbers but they really don't tell the whole story. Allen also had 256 more pass attempts than LJ as well as 1787 more passing yards over the two years so you would likely expect a lower completion % as well as more turnovers. The fact that is was only a difference of 4 turnovers with 256 more pass attempts is pretty good. Allen also has 900ish rushing yards in that time frame. Not Lamar numbers but still decent for a QB. Again, not taking away from LJ has done, he's a hell of an athlete but just think he's going to be a great runner playing QB until he develops his passing ability (similar to what Josh did over the last 3 years). He will never be able to develop his passing abilities to the extent like Josh He just doesn't have the pure arm strength and precision outside the numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Wiz Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said: He will never be able to develop his passing abilities to the extent like Josh He just doesn't have the pure arm strength and precision outside the numbers Agree about the arm strength. As for precision, obviously allen is an anomaly but proves it can be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo716 Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 (edited) 8 minutes ago, The Wiz said: Agree about the arm strength. As for precision, obviously allen is an anomaly but proves it can be done. I was never in the boat that Allen had bad accuracy or precision What Allen struggled with was consistency do to bad lower body mechanics.. it was all out of whack because his lower body was not in sync with his upper body Even still , going back to his days at Wyoming. He was able to make big time NFL throws with precision, on the move or in the pocket Especially throws outside the numbers. The hardest throws for quarterbacks to make.. and he made them look the easiest He actually struggled with more of the routine stuff because his mechanics were so out of whack.. but going back to Wyoming and even his first year with the bills.. he made plenty of throws outside the numbers, that a lot of quarterbacks in the league can't even make That required serious precision and arm strength coupled together.. he just didn't have the consistency down yet Which he's getting Throwing outside the numbers is the hardest thing for an NFL quarterback to do.. Allen has always been very good at it.. And that's always been the weakest part of Lamar's game going back to Louisville Edited June 17, 2021 by Buffalo716 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
without a drought Posted June 17, 2021 Share Posted June 17, 2021 He cheats at ping pong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 10 hours ago, billsrul120 said: This is the last season you are going to be able to say this barring injury. ok 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 10 hours ago, The Wiz said: I understand your point with these numbers but they really don't tell the whole story. Allen also had 256 more pass attempts than LJ as well as 1787 more passing yards over the two years so you would likely expect a lower completion % as well as more turnovers. The fact that is was only a difference of 4 turnovers with 256 more pass attempts is pretty good. Allen also has 900ish rushing yards in that time frame. Not Lamar numbers but still decent for a QB. Again, not taking away from LJ has done, he's a hell of an athlete but just think he's going to be a great runner playing QB until he develops his passing ability (similar to what Josh did over the last 3 years). Over the last 2 seasons, they had about the same YPA. Almost the same accuracy. The Ravens don't ask Jackson to pass as much, yet his TD % is better than Josh easily the past 2 years. He scores a lot, both passing and running, even with fewer touches than Allen. Dead last in yards and attempts, but threw more TDs than 19 other teams. That's not exactly a star studded Offense in Baltimore--he's the leading passer and rusher. No receiver with even 800 yards. He's, essentially, the Offense. The point obviously isn't to say that he's am passer on par with Allen. It's to say these posts about him being a bad passer are not really convincing/accurate. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Sack Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 Jackson is simply not best used as a drop back 30+ times a game passer and therefore there’s less action for WRs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorkScrewHill Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 14 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Josh, hands down. Anyone would. Agree that Josh has the better upside .. also agree that it is too early to say that Josh will be definitively better than Lamar. Maybe Lamar goes the RGIII route, but more likely he remains a scary quarterback (who wants to be better) in a really good organization that will keep him as protected as possible. Glad we have Josh but lamar deserves the accolades he has received. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Riverside Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 I frankly don’t even understand why fridge and wide receivers would even go there they’re not gonna put up the numbers in order to be able to get the second contract they want Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 16 hours ago, Buffalo716 said: I was never in the boat that Allen had bad accuracy or precision What Allen struggled with was consistency do to bad lower body mechanics.. it was all out of whack because his lower body was not in sync with his upper body Even still , going back to his days at Wyoming. He was able to make big time NFL throws with precision, on the move or in the pocket Especially throws outside the numbers. The hardest throws for quarterbacks to make.. and he made them look the easiest He actually struggled with more of the routine stuff because his mechanics were so out of whack.. but going back to Wyoming and even his first year with the bills.. he made plenty of throws outside the numbers, that a lot of quarterbacks in the league can't even make That required serious precision and arm strength coupled together.. he just didn't have the consistency down yet Which he's getting Throwing outside the numbers is the hardest thing for an NFL quarterback to do.. Allen has always been very good at it.. And that's always been the weakest part of Lamar's game going back to Louisville ive been telling anyone who will listen, and most people who won't, that Josh is FavrElway. the (sometimes massive) lapses in his game early was a function of him getting too amped and in many cases just not having his feet anywhere close to right. even his two less than standard playoff games last season were a result of him being a touch too antsy at times, and that's with bad weather and banged up WRs. in my life i've never seen a guy do things like stiff arm a DT and then deliver a bullet for a good gain like Josh allen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJS Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 People always figure out the iterations of Roman's scheme sooner or later and then things tighten up for them. Since Jackson is such an athlete, it is taking longer for the NFL. But as soon as Roman has to mix in more passing, things start to crumble. I predict that Roman will be fired in a couple years and they'll bring in someone who can develop the passing game. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 On 3/25/2021 at 10:02 AM, Teddy KGB said: Juju Smith Shuster turned down more money from the Ravens to stay in Pittsburgh. TY Hilton has also declined signing a huge multi year deal with the Ravens today. The media always placing Lamars failures on the wideouts seems to be scaring new targets away. Maybe Ravens should just use TE’s instead of WR’s ( problem solved? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billsrul120 Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 10 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Over the last 2 seasons, they had about the same YPA. Almost the same accuracy. The Ravens don't ask Jackson to pass as much, yet his TD % is better than Josh easily the past 2 years. He scores a lot, both passing and running, even with fewer touches than Allen. Dead last in yards and attempts, but threw more TDs than 19 other teams. That's not exactly a star studded Offense in Baltimore--he's the leading passer and rusher. No receiver with even 800 yards. He's, essentially, the Offense. The point obviously isn't to say that he's am passer on par with Allen. It's to say these posts about him being a bad passer are not really convincing/accurate. I think you are missing a huge point here which is that when a team is facing the Ravens that week, they are gearing up to stop the run. Lamar is definitely a huge part of that run game. I'm convinced he gets easier/simpler passing looks on a play to play basis as a result of their running game. When they are in a game where he has to pass and the defense knows it, he gets in trouble. He's not good enough at it. For comparison, Allen went up against defenses all year who knew they had to stop the passing game and he was still able to have a ridiculous season. That's good qb play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeviF Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 24 minutes ago, MJS said: I predict that Roman will be fired in a couple years and they'll bring in someone who can develop the passing game. I'm in this camp as well, and that's when we'll find out who Lamar Jackson really is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gugny Posted June 18, 2021 Share Posted June 18, 2021 3 hours ago, MJS said: I predict that Roman will be fired in a couple years and they'll bring in someone who can develop the passing game. 3 hours ago, LeviF said: I'm in this camp as well, and that's when we'll find out who Lamar Jackson really is. Isn't this like trying to develop Brady's run game? Some things just aren't there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Putin Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 17 hours ago, Dr.Sack said: Jackson is simply not best used as a drop back 30+ times a game passer and therefore there’s less action for WRs. WTH is this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thurman#1 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 22 hours ago, Mr. WEO said: Over the last 2 seasons, they had about the same YPA. Almost the same accuracy. The Ravens don't ask Jackson to pass as much, yet his TD % is better than Josh easily the past 2 years. He scores a lot, both passing and running, even with fewer touches than Allen. Dead last in yards and attempts, but threw more TDs than 19 other teams. That's not exactly a star studded Offense in Baltimore--he's the leading passer and rusher. No receiver with even 800 yards. He's, essentially, the Offense. The point obviously isn't to say that he's am passer on par with Allen. It's to say these posts about him being a bad passer are not really convincing/accurate. Not actually "bad." Yeah, probably fair. But you can't compare the last two years together without pointing out that Allen has trended up a hell of a lot the last two years while Jackson started sensational and trended down a bit. And that's a huge difference. Yeah, if you compare two years they look alike. But you shouldn't. Josh Allen wasn't Josh Allen yet in 2019. When it comes to talent Jackson has thrown to, it's worth pointing out also that John Brown looked pretty damn good with Josh. And in Baltimore he started boiling hot his first year there. In the first nine games he puts up 601 yards and 4 TDs. Then they pull Flacco and put in Lamar, and the rest of the year, in seven games with Lamar throwing to him he manages 114 yards and 1 TD. Maybe some of the reason the Baltimore receivers haven't looked good is that Lamar is doing the throwing. Not all, but some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewEra Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 11 hours ago, billsrul120 said: I think you are missing a huge point here which is that when a team is facing the Ravens that week, they are gearing up to stop the run. Lamar is definitely a huge part of that run game. I'm convinced he gets easier/simpler passing looks on a play to play basis as a result of their running game. When they are in a game where he has to pass and the defense knows it, he gets in trouble. He's not good enough at it. For comparison, Allen went up against defenses all year who knew they had to stop the passing game and he was still able to have a ridiculous season. That's good qb play. I agree 💯 with the first paragraph. Well stated. the 2nd paragraph…..it isn’t incorrect, but deceiving imo. Allen went up against defenses all year that knew they had to stop the pass and he had a ridiculous season. In 2019, every team knew they had to stop the ravens run, yet Lamar won mvp. In 2020. Everyone knew they had to stop lamars run game yet he still ran for 1000+ yards and the ravens finished 11-4 when he started. The chiefs played the Bills like we played the ravens. Selling out to stop the opponents best method of offense. Both qbs seasons ended because their offenses were too one dimensional to overcome good defensive game plans. Neither offensive coaching staff was up to the challenge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. WEO Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said: Not actually "bad." Yeah, probably fair. But you can't compare the last two years together without pointing out that Allen has trended up a hell of a lot the last two years while Jackson started sensational and trended down a bit. And that's a huge difference. Yeah, if you compare two years they look alike. But you shouldn't. Josh Allen wasn't Josh Allen yet in 2019. When it comes to talent Jackson has thrown to, it's worth pointing out also that John Brown looked pretty damn good with Josh. And in Baltimore he started boiling hot his first year there. In the first nine games he puts up 601 yards and 4 TDs. Then they pull Flacco and put in Lamar, and the rest of the year, in seven games with Lamar throwing to him he manages 114 yards and 1 TD. Maybe some of the reason the Baltimore receivers haven't looked good is that Lamar is doing the throwing. Not all, but some. I covered that. Numbers show that LJ is not as inaccurate/bad/whatever passer he is being portrayed by many here as. That's what I'm saying. And Josh got a lot better when he got better receivers in 2020 (sorry, Brown's barely surpassing 1000 yards in 2019 despite being the WR1 and getting targeted 115 times isn't really "damn good", but he was what they had...). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GETTOTHE50 Posted June 19, 2021 Share Posted June 19, 2021 I’m just curious how much the ravens will have to pay for LJ and how his contract will compare to JA17s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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