Texas has frozen; Bring on the Green New Deal!!

[Big Blitz]

 

 

 

[US Egg]

Joe B. couldn't find Texas on an old 48 state map of the U.S.

[Motorin']

Texas's natural gas pipelines froze, as did the stockpile of coal. 

 

Morons. 

[Tenhigh]

We should be building nuclear plants all over this country, just away from the fault lines. 

[SoTier]

Maybe Texas should manage its power grid better.  Most of Texas is under the ERCOT grid, which is the only "standalone" state power grid.  All the other states and the Texas Panhandle belong to large multi-state power grids that share power so that when there's a big problem in one area, they can get power and other resources from unaffected areas ... which is why when there's a hurricane in Florida, power companies from New York or Kentucky send crews to help restore the grid in the affected areas.

 

Who's to Blame for Texas Power Outages?

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

I cannot think of a more ironic image than a iced over frozen inoperable wind turbine in Texas. 
 

speaking of ironic, this whole climate change topic in simple terms; we are creating too much CO2, which is resulting in too much sunlight being retained as heat. 
 

so while sitting on a planet which is 70% water, I’m reminded that plants use co2, sunlight and water to create food. 🤔 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[716er]

39 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I cannot think of a more ironic image than a iced over frozen inoperable wind turbine in Texas.

 

Is there a photo of said ironic image or is the ironic image just in your head?

 

 

Interesting. Why is Texas pretty much by itself? 

Edited February 17, 2021 by 716er

[Tiberius]

Texas has power outage and who get blamed? A congresswomen from NY? 

 

This is is why I would love to be a right wing propagandist. It’s so easy! You can literally say anything and the right wing sheep will lick it up! 

 

 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

20 minutes ago, 716er said:

 

Is there a photo of said ironic image or is the ironic image just in your head?

 

 

Interesting. Why is Texas pretty much by itself? 

https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/15/us/power-outages-texas-monday/index.html

 

i guess it’s in my head based on this story and I’ll admit CNN tends to mislead so it’s probably poorly fact checked and unconfirmed. But it still strikes me as ironic. I’m sorry is that not allowed? 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[All_Pro_Bills]

9 hours ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

 

Back in the days of the Carter administration NASA and the DOE initiated a research and development project called the Solar Power Satellite System (SPSS) designed to build and deploy space-based solar collectors that would constantly beam power down to Earth based collecting stations.  I was envisioned the system would be scalable and would provide uninterrupted and potentially unlimited amounts of electrical energy.  The system consisted of multiple large collectors in geosynchronous orbit beaming down power to one or more collection stations that would connect to the power grid.  But the Reagan administration killed the project when they took power after the 1980 election.  Most likely the desire to continue with the oil based economy and multiple lobbies and special interests hastened its demise too.

 

The biggest technical obstacle was the means of beaming down the power to the Earth based stations.  Microwave, laser, some kind of Earth tethered connection like the space elevator concept.  A physical constraint was the amount of lift capacity needed and the expertise and manpower needed to assemble such large structure in space.  One possible solution would have been a massive expansion of the shuttle program.  Budget and cost constraints also posed issues.   

 

But 40 years ago a group forward thinking "out of the box" scientists and politicians saw a long-term solution that if followed through might have had us in a good position going forward. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

2 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Back in the days of the Carter administration NASA and the DOE initiated a research and development project called the Solar Power Satellite System (SPSS) designed to build and deploy space-based solar collectors that would constantly beam power down to Earth based collecting stations.  I was envisioned the system would be scalable and would provide uninterrupted and potentially unlimited amounts of electrical energy.  The system consisted of multiple large collectors in geosynchronous orbit beaming down power to one or more collection stations that would connect to the power grid.  But the Reagan administration killed the project when they took power after the 1980 election.  Most likely the desire to continue with the oil based economy and multiple lobbies and special interests hastened its demise too.

 

The biggest technical obstacle was the means of beaming down the power to the Earth based stations.  Microwave, laser, some kind of Earth tethered connection like the space elevator concept.  A physical constraint was the amount of lift capacity needed and the expertise and manpower needed to assemble such large structure in space.  One possible solution would have been a massive expansion of the shuttle program.  Budget and cost constraints also posed issues.   

 

But 40 years ago a group forward thinking "out of the box" scientists and politicians saw a long-term solution that if followed through might have had us in a good position going forward. 

wireless power transmission is sort of like the flying car popular science said I’d have 15 years ago. 

[Buffalo_Stampede]

This is why I hate politics. 

 

People aren't that stupid to believe wind and solar are the reason Texas power failed. Politics will make people say and do anything to defend their party. 

[T master]

1 hour ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I cannot think of a more ironic image than a iced over frozen inoperable wind turbine in Texas. 
 

speaking of ironic, this whole climate change topic in simple terms; we are creating too much CO2, which is resulting in too much sunlight being retained as heat. 
 

so while sitting on a planet which is 70% water, I’m reminded that plants use co2, sunlight and water to create food. 🤔 

 

 

But don't stop clearing massive amounts of trees to build new roads & houses that are asphalt based products that draw & contain heat not to mention the pollution it causes was the oil comes out of them and goes into the aquifer . 

[SoTier]

55 minutes ago, 716er said:

 

Is there a photo of said ironic image or is the ironic image just in your head?

 

 

Interesting. Why is Texas pretty much by itself? 

 

Because Texas wants to perpetuate the myth of Texas being big enough to be its own country?   I don't know but the areas of the Panhandle and East Texas may have power outages because the ice brought down power lines, not because they're suffering rolling blackouts because their utility companies can't meet the demand for electricity.   The utilities in those two areas simply by extra powers from their grid partners.

 

 

34 minutes ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Back in the days of the Carter administration NASA and the DOE initiated a research and development project called the Solar Power Satellite System (SPSS) designed to build and deploy space-based solar collectors that would constantly beam power down to Earth based collecting stations.  I was envisioned the system would be scalable and would provide uninterrupted and potentially unlimited amounts of electrical energy.  The system consisted of multiple large collectors in geosynchronous orbit beaming down power to one or more collection stations that would connect to the power grid.  But the Reagan administration killed the project when they took power after the 1980 election.  Most likely the desire to continue with the oil based economy and multiple lobbies and special interests hastened its demise too.

 

The biggest technical obstacle was the means of beaming down the power to the Earth based stations.  Microwave, laser, some kind of Earth tethered connection like the space elevator concept.  A physical constraint was the amount of lift capacity needed and the expertise and manpower needed to assemble such large structure in space.  One possible solution would have been a massive expansion of the shuttle program.  Budget and cost constraints also posed issues.   

 

But 40 years ago a group forward thinking "out of the box" scientists and politicians saw a long-term solution that if followed through might have had us in a good position going forward. 

 

Solar energy isn't that complicated.   Solar technology has advanced so much in the last decade that even in cloudy WNY, producing electricity from solar panels is feasible and dependable.

[BillStime]

 

 

Always someone else's fault, right @Big Blitz?

 

 

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, SoTier said:

 

Because Texas wants to perpetuate the myth of Texas being big enough to be its own country?   I don't know but the areas of the Panhandle and East Texas may have power outages because the ice brought down power lines, not because they're suffering rolling blackouts because their utility companies can't meet the demand for electricity.   The utilities in those two areas simply by extra powers from their grid partners.

 

 

 

Solar energy isn't that complicated.   Solar technology has advanced so much in the last decade that even in cloudy WNY, producing electricity from solar panels is feasible and dependable.

Based on specs I've seen an average solar panel can produce 1.5Kw per day.  And in Winter the number of panels needed to produce some "base" level of power increases with a lower Sun "angle" and less daylight hours available.  So far its use has been limited to supplementing base power loads or home based systems that benefit from generous subsidies and tax credits to replace a portion of power coming form the grid or even going back into the grid when surplus power is generated form these arrays. 

Plus a few times our power was knocked out by storms the solar panels were useless.  Because they generate DC power and there is a need for an inverter which convert that power to AC.  As the inverter runs off the grid when the power is out the inverter is out. 

 

In my opinion rudimentary solar and wind power is never going to replace the power produced from natural gas, coal, and nuclear power plants.  There needs to be some big jump in efficiency.  If the decision is to go that route with current technologies then some major downsizing of civilization is going to be required.  Ideas like replacing the entire internal combustion fleet with EV's is a fantasy unless there's an expectation of lower levels of mobility and use.  As 1 gallon of gasoline produces 44Kw of energy and 1 solar panel produces 1.5Kw of energy and we currently consume about 9.3M barrels of gasoline a day the mathematical result of how many solar panels would be needed to replace all that gasoline consumption is staggering.   Along with all that petroleum and petrochemical inputs required for the manufacturing process.  I don't know but do solar panel and wind turbine factories run on solar and wind generated energy or do they run on things like natural gas?  

 

   

Edited February 17, 2021 by All_Pro_Bills

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This is why I hate politics. 

 

People aren't that stupid to believe wind and solar are the reason Texas power failed. Politics will make people say and do anything to defend their party. 

Absolutely this will be politicized. If that cnn article is correct though, that 20% of power is from those sources, that kind of incremental loss isn’t handled well by large grids. Of course trees or ice taking out power lines and bat gas pipelines going down will be omitted in the pro oil reporting crowd. Just like the anti oil crowd will go out of their way to call out Texas leadership, because California has been on the other side as the whipping boy for third world power grid issues for some time. 
 

its all a little information with a lot of editorializing. 

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Texas has power outage and who get blamed? A congresswomen from NY? 

 

This is is why I would love to be a right wing propagandist. It’s so easy! You can literally say anything and the right wing sheep will lick it up! 

 

 

No one is blaming her.  She’s still hiding under her desk a quater mile from the Capital worried Ted Cruz is trying to get her.  Their just using the freak weather events to take a political shot at green energy because “there’s a narrative to capitalize on.” 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, T master said:

 

 

But don't stop clearing massive amounts of trees to build new roads & houses that are asphalt based products that draw & contain heat not to mention the pollution it causes was the oil comes out of them and goes into the aquifer . 

seems simple right? Or replace what you remove... or spend research on replicating the process artificially. That seems like something that could be compromised upon.

 

But the issue is democrats want to kill the oil industry because of how significant it is to republican power (if they are environmentalists they wouldn’t consume what they do). The republicans disagree for the same reason. (They don’t hate the environment nearly as much as they would hate losing their power base) 
 

If they actually wanted to solve the problem collaboratively it would have already been figured out. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[frostbitmic]

Those windmills being frozen is a great thing. Just think of all those cases of windmill cancer will be prevented by this.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

3 minutes ago, frostbitmic said:

Those windmills being frozen is a great thing. Just think of all those cases of windmill cancer will be prevented by this.

And the seagulls 

[716er]

46 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

If that cnn article is correct though, that 20% of power is from those sources, that kind of incremental loss isn’t handled well by large grids.

 

Nowhere in that article - https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/15/us/power-outages-texas-monday/index.html - does it mention or comment on what percentage of power is from wind sources. 

[Big Blitz]

1 hour ago, BillStime said:

 

 

Always someone else's fault, right @Big Blitz?

 

 

 

 

Oh???  Apparently yes.  Yes it is....

 

 

 

 

Yep....AOC shining example 

 

2 hours ago, Buffalo_Stampede said:

This is why I hate politics. 

 

People aren't that stupid to believe wind and solar are the reason Texas power failed. Politics will make people say and do anything to defend their party. 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Big Blitz

[oldmanfan]

1 hour ago, All_Pro_Bills said:

Based on specs I've seen an average solar panel can produce 1.5Kw per day.  And in Winter the number of panels needed to produce some "base" level of power increases with a lower Sun "angle" and less daylight hours available.  So far its use has been limited to supplementing base power loads or home based systems that benefit from generous subsidies and tax credits to replace a portion of power coming form the grid or even going back into the grid when surplus power is generated form these arrays. 

Plus a few times our power was knocked out by storms the solar panels were useless.  Because they generate DC power and there is a need for an inverter which convert that power to AC.  As the inverter runs off the grid when the power is out the inverter is out. 

 

In my opinion rudimentary solar and wind power is never going to replace the power produced from natural gas, coal, and nuclear power plants.  There needs to be some big jump in efficiency.  If the decision is to go that route with current technologies then some major downsizing of civilization is going to be required.  Ideas like replacing the entire internal combustion fleet with EV's is a fantasy unless there's an expectation of lower levels of mobility and use.  As 1 gallon of gasoline produces 44Kw of energy and 1 solar panel produces 1.5Kw of energy and we currently consume about 9.3M barrels of gasoline a day the mathematical result of how many solar panels would be needed to replace all that gasoline consumption is staggering.   Along with all that petroleum and petrochemical inputs required for the manufacturing process.  I don't know but do solar panel and wind turbine factories run on solar and wind generated energy or do they run on things like natural gas?  

 

   

Interesting.  Sounds like areas ripe for research to enhance efficiencies?

[BillStime]

3 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

Oh???  Apparently yes.  Yes it is....

 

 

 

 

You do realize that AOC has nothing to with what is happening in Texas other than the weak Governor blaming AOC and the green new deal (which never passed), right?

[Big Blitz]

1 minute ago, BillStime said:

 

You do realize that AOC has nothing to with what is happening in Texas other than the weak Governor blaming AOC and the green new deal (which never passed), right?

 

 

See my edited post regarding politicizing everything..... 

[BillStime]

4 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

See my edited post regarding politicizing everything..... 

 

I'm good

[716er]

22 minutes ago, Big Blitz said:

 

 

See my edited post regarding politicizing everything..... 

 

Are you referring to the title of this thread?

[Tiberius]

Well, I guess this guy spoke the truth, socialism is about helping people. our fellow citizens in need 

Perfect Republican, just let people die. How is he any different from the rest? 

Quote

 

The mayor of a West Texas town said Tuesday that he had already resigned after he was widely condemned for writing on Facebook that people suffering in the cold without power shouldn’t look to their local governments for help.

Tim Boyd, who was mayor of Colorado City, made his original, typo-ridden post Tuesday morning, writing that “no one owes you are your family anything; nor is it the local government’s responsibility to support you during trying times like this! … The City and County, along with power providers or any other service owes you NOTHING!”

 

North Texas counties, cities, others open warming shelters for residents without power

Boyd continued at length, saying that he was “sick and tired” of people looking for handouts and that the current situation is “sadly a product of a socialist government.”

ADVERTISING

“Only the strong will survive and the weak will parish,” he wrot

 

e.

[Motorin']

4 hours ago, Tiberius said:

Texas has power outage and who get blamed? A congresswomen from NY? 

 

This is is why I would love to be a right wing propagandist. It’s so easy! You can literally say anything and the right wing sheep will lick it up! 

 

 

 

But the windmills froze the natural gas pipelines, and it's Biden's fault that Texas disconnected itself from the rest of the country! 

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

In 2012 I bought a Generac home generator.

 

For the last three days my neighbors have been p!ssed that I have power and internet and they don't. 

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

46 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Well, I guess this guy spoke the truth, socialism is about helping people. our fellow citizens in need 

Perfect Republican, just let people die. How is he any different from the rest? 

e.

 

With you on this Tibs. This Republican wants to hurt people  and noone should suffer being out the cold among other stuff by this guy.   Feel for them.

Edited February 17, 2021 by Buffalo Bills Fan

[Motorin']

3 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

In 2012 I bought a Generac home generator.

 

For the last three days my neighbors have been p!ssed that I have power and internet and they don't. 

I bet home Generator sales will be through the roof in Texas, much like in WNY after the October Surprise. 

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

1 hour ago, 716er said:

 

Nowhere in that article - https://www.cnn.com/2021/02/15/us/power-outages-texas-monday/index.html - does it mention or comment on what percentage of power is from wind sources. 

Good catch I got it from this AP one, where they outed that manipulator with the helicopter clip art. 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/f9e24976e9723021bec21f9a68afe927

“On top of that, while Texas has ramped up wind energy in recent years, the state still relies on wind power for only about 25% of its total electricity, according to ERCOT data.”

4 minutes ago, Buffalo Bills Fan said:

 

With you on this Tibs. This Republican wants to hurt people  and noone should suffer being out the cold among other stuff by this guy.   Feel for them.

i appreciate the guy on CNBC just called out both political oppositions for trying to finger point and said can we just get these people their heat back on and worry about who to blame later? 

Edited February 17, 2021 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Buffalo Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

Good catch I got it from this AP one, where they outed that manipulator with the helicopter clip art. 

 

 

https://apnews.com/article/f9e24976e9723021bec21f9a68afe927

“On top of that, while Texas has ramped up wind energy in recent years, the state still relies on wind power for only about 25% of its total electricity, according to ERCOT data.”

i appreciate the guy on CNBC just called out both political oppositions for trying to finger point and said can we just get these people their heat back on and worry about who to blame later? 

 

Agree turning the heat back on first. First thing first for people.

[SoCal Deek]

52 minutes ago, Tiberius said:

Well, I guess this guy spoke the truth, socialism is about helping people. our fellow citizens in need 

Perfect Republican, just let people die. How is he any different from the rest? 

e.

There is a big difference between people voluntarily helping people and the mandated confiscation of your earnings so that they can be redistributed by some  inefficient government program.

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

4 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

There is a big difference between people voluntarily helping people and the mandated confiscation of your earnings so that they can be redistributed by some  inefficient government program.

I think this point is a little tough for people to appreciate. 
 

there are certainly people who are republican merely because they they give more than they take, and people that are democrats merely because they take more than they give.

 

conversely democrats also can be found in those that have more but are willing to give more, while republicans that have more and give less. 

 

these are all rational human perspectives. 
 

[Tiberius]

11 minutes ago, SoCal Deek said:

There is a big difference between people voluntarily helping people and the mandated confiscation of your earnings so that they can be redistributed by some  inefficient government program.

Lol, this is dumb. Actually, if the government doesn’t help, no one will 

[dpberr]

This is a warning shot across the bow of the country when it comes to not freezing to death.  

 

Regardless of which camp you sit in on climate change, you always need reliable standby fuel sources and *a lot* of it.  Coal and nuclear power continue to save the day in the northeast and people don't even notice. 

 

When demand goes up, guess what fires up?  Whatever coal plants and nuclear plants we have left when the natural gas pipelines can't generate the pressure.  Pennsylvania contributes a significant amount of production towards the grid on the eastern seaboard.  With each coal plant that closes and each generating station that gets decommissioned (Three Mile Island just closed), you lose that crucial standby energy for your cold snaps and heat waves.  

 

Natural gas, wind and solar can't do it and probably won't, even if you go to great lengths to winterize the infrastructure.  

 

I don't agree with Bill Gates on 99% of his opinions and projects but I do agree that the United States needs to design next generation nuclear power plants so that they could take the place of some of the coal plants.  

 

The Texans are paying the price of complacency and being cheap.   ERCOT got lazy, fat and happy and wasn't doing nearly enough worrying as they should have been.  They didn't think Texas could ever, ever get snow?  

[All_Pro_Bills]

1 hour ago, Tiberius said:

Well, I guess this guy spoke the truth, socialism is about helping people. our fellow citizens in need 

Perfect Republican, just let people die. How is he any different from the rest? 

e.

Please spare us all the plug on the virtues of socialism.  People help others on their own.  They don't need the government to tell them or force them to do it.  They do it on their own.  Voluntarily.  As witnessed by many charities and other non-government sponsored ways citizens help other citizens.  I know people in Texas and many with power and water are taking in friends and relatives that have neither.  They didn't need some government official to advise or direct them to take action.  It doesn't matter that the people they help are Democrats or Republicans or Liberals or Conservative.  

 

The core principles of Socialism are not about "helping people".  Its been an abysmal failure everywhere.  Socialism is an economic system that in theory seeks to divide the output of society in some "equitable" fashion.  In practice its a two tiered system with "insiders" are more equally treated than outsiders.  Outsiders being the common people not affiliated with the ruling class.  In that respect its fundamentally the same as our current system where DC insiders set all the rules we rock and roll to without much input from the peasants.  

 

The failure of the socialist system eventually falls to a fundamental problem.  While it focuses on an equitable distribution of consumption or rewards it avoids any mention of an equitable distribution of production and work.  Which at some point raises the question, if I work hard and produce 20 units of output then why do I only get 2 units of consumption which is the same as the guy that products 1 unit of output and gets 2 units of consumption?  Why am I working so hard for nothing?  I'm going to dial back my work to 2 units of output.  That way I get out what I put in.  Pretty soon everyone that's productive gets the same idea and the whole thing goes to hell and people have to eat zoo animals and their pets like what went down in Venezuela.  So if you're really into socialism don't forget to hang on to those grill Husky recipe ideas.  In a couple years you'll need them..          

[Capco]

25 minutes ago, dpberr said:

This is a warning shot across the bow of the country when it comes to not freezing to death.  

 

Regardless of which camp you sit in on climate change, you always need reliable standby fuel sources and *a lot* of it.  Coal and nuclear power continue to save the day in the northeast and people don't even notice. 

 

When demand goes up, guess what fires up?  Whatever coal plants and nuclear plants we have left when the natural gas pipelines can't generate the pressure.  Pennsylvania contributes a significant amount of production towards the grid on the eastern seaboard.  With each coal plant that closes and each generating station that gets decommissioned (Three Mile Island just closed), you lose that crucial standby energy for your cold snaps and heat waves.  

 

Natural gas, wind and solar can't do it and probably won't, even if you go to great lengths to winterize the infrastructure.  

 

I don't agree with Bill Gates on 99% of his opinions and projects but I do agree that the United States needs to design next generation nuclear power plants so that they could take the place of some of the coal plants.  

 

The Texans are paying the price of complacency and being cheap.   ERCOT got lazy, fat and happy and wasn't doing nearly enough worrying as they should have been.  They didn't think Texas could ever, ever get snow?  

 

The documentary "Pandora's Promise" makes a very compelling argument for nuclear (and against the environmentally excessive left for not realizing that nuclear is actually a relatively clean, sustainable source of electricity).

 

The energy infrastructure in this country needs to be comprehensive.  That's the bottom line.  Pipe-dreams preaching perfection are going to be the enemy of progress.  

Edited February 17, 2021 by Capco