Beane Wanted Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown as a QB Mentor?

[JohnNord]

Just go through watching the NYUP podcast with guest Tim Graham.  I found one tidbit really interesting.  Graham said that the Bills looked into signing Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown in the 2018 offseason as a “placeholder QB” or mentor. I believe that both re-signed with their teams before FA started, which would seem to be the reason why they eventually went with the plan B of AJ McCarron.

 

It’s fascinating to think about what could have been with a Fitzpatrick led Bills team in 2018.  I don’t see the team winning much more than they did, but the year definitely would have been fun.  It also makes you wonder what happens with Josh and to a lesser extent with Nathan Peterman as a developmental backup.   Does learning from Fitzpatrick make them better QB’s?  Does Fitz get the best out of guys like Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones and even a Robert Foster?
 

Would Josh sit the whole year or would the Bills have another Tua situation on their hands? It’s interesting to think what could’ve happened.  
 

 

 

[Beast]

I guess I'm glad it turned out the way it did. I don't know what proof anyone could point to and say Josh would be further along than he is now if he sat the 2018 season....or more.

[whatdrought]

I love Josh Allen, but the guy has some psycho in him... that being said, I don’t know if he is where he is if his development didn’t include so much up and down. He thrives by getting his ass kicked and coming back for more and to figure it out. 2018 was a lot of ass kicking that I think he needed. 

[JohnNord]

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

I guess I'm glad it turned out the way it did. I don't know what proof anyone could point to and say Josh would be further along than he is now if he sat the 2018 season....or more.

I know what you mean.  I do feel that Josh needed to learn with experience rather than watching.  He even alluded to that last season.  

[SirAndrew]

3 minutes ago, Beast said:

I guess I'm glad it turned out the way it did. I don't know what proof anyone could point to and say Josh would be further along than he is now if he sat the 2018 season....or more.

I’m happy Josh got the playing time in his rookie year. A raw prospect like Allen needs the experience. I’m not a believer in the idea that you ruin a QB by throwing him out there too soon. Experience is always a good thing imo. Fitz or McCown would have just kept him on the bench longer. I‘m very relieved we didn’t have to watch McCown in 2018. Allen’s rookie ups and down were more interesting than anything you’d see from a guy like McCown. 

[Kwai San]

4 minutes ago, SirAndrew said:

I’m happy Josh got the playing time in his rookie year. A raw prospect like Allen needs the experience. I’m not a believer in the idea that you ruin a QB by throwing him out there too soon. Experience is always a good thing imo. Fitz or McCown would have just kept him on the bench longer. I‘m very relieved we didn’t have to watch McCown in 2018. Allen’s rookie ups and down were more interesting than anything you’d see from a guy like McCown. 

 

THIS!!!!

[ALLEN1QB]

15 minutes ago, whatdrought said:

I love Josh Allen, but the guy has some psycho in him... that being said, I don’t know if he is where he is if his development didn’t include so much up and down. He thrives by getting his ass kicked and coming back for more and to figure it out. 2018 was a lot of ass kicking that I think he needed. 

Maybe our defense will play better after getting their ass kicked.

[benderbender]

So he’d still be in tears but with a different uniform drenched in tears, got it. 

 

[Irish Dave]

Fitz will make a great QB coach and maybe OC some day.  He has said that when he pictures himself playing QB it's always in a Bills uniform; he had his best years here.  Would be great if he came back and settled here and worked for the Bills in some coaching capacity.

 

Related - there's a lot of talk about Daboll leaving the Bills to be a HC someday soon.  But the thing is, he is FROM Buffalo and is a life long Bills fan.  When he got to return home and settle here and got this job he said this is his dream job.  Maybe he stays put?

Edited October 23, 2020 by Irish Dave

[formerlyofCtown]

1 hour ago, JohnNord said:

Just go through watching the NYUP podcast with guest Tim Graham.  I found one tidbit really interesting.  Graham said that the Bills looked into signing Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown in the 2018 offseason as a “placeholder QB” or mentor. I believe that both re-signed with their teams before FA started, which would seem to be the reason why they eventually went with the plan B of AJ McCarron.

 

It’s fascinating to think about what could have been with a Fitzpatrick led Bills team in 2018.  I don’t see the team winning much more than they did, but the year definitely would have been fun.  It also makes you wonder what happens with Josh and to a lesser extent with Nathan Peterman as a developmental backup.   Does learning from Fitzpatrick make them better QB’s?  Does Fitz get the best out of guys like Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones and even a Robert Foster?
 

Would Josh sit the whole year or would the Bills have another Tua situation on their hands? It’s interesting to think what could’ve happened.  
 

 

 

I think Josh got the best out of Robert Foster.  It was just a short time span.  I would have liked to see Fitz with Watkins, Woods, Goodwin and Hogan.

 

And the #4 defense.

Edited October 23, 2020 by formerlyofCtown

[JohnNord]

11 minutes ago, Irish Dave said:

Fitz will make a great QB coach and maybe OC some day.  He has said that when he pictures himself playing QB it's always in a Bills uniform; he had his best years here.  Would be great if he came back and settled here and worked for the Bills in some coaching capacity.

 

Related - there's a lot of talk about Daboll leaving the Bills to be a HC someday soon.  But the thing is, he is FROM Buffalo and is a life long Bills fan.  When he got to return home and settle here and got this job he said this is his dream job.  Maybe he stays put?

As an OC there’s no doubt that he’ll stay in Buffalo as long as he can.

 

But the ultimate goal for any NFL coach is to become a HC.  There’s only 32 spots.  If Daboll gets a chance to become a head coach, he will take it.  I don’t see him turning down HC offers so he can stay home.

[formerlyofCtown]

13 minutes ago, Irish Dave said:

Fitz will make a great QB coach and maybe OC some day.  He has said that when he pictures himself playing QB it's always in a Bills uniform; he had his best years here.  Would be great if he came back and settled here and worked for the Bills in some coaching capacity.

 

Related - there's a lot of talk about Daboll leaving the Bills to be a HC someday soon.  But the thing is, he is FROM Buffalo and is a life long Bills fan.  When he got to return home and settle here and got this job he said this is his dream job.  Maybe he stays put?

His dream job: Half the fans want him fired and the other half are afraid he will leave to be a HC Lol.  I do think he likes it in Buffalo.

1 minute ago, JohnNord said:

As an OC there’s no doubt that he’ll stay in Buffalo as long as he can.

 

But the ultimate goal for any NFL coach is to become a HC.  There’s only 32 spots.  If Daboll gets a chance to become a head coach, he will take it.  I don’t see him turning down HC offers so he can stay home.

Wade Phillips.

[JaCrispy]

Love Fitz!!!

[buffalostu2]

How does Tim Graham know this?   Could just be speculation.   I will wait to hear it confirmed by Eric Wood, one of Fitz's closest friends.  It is hard to understand why Fitz would not have come back here with so many close Buffalo relationships including Wood.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

3 hours ago, whatdrought said:

I love Josh Allen, but the guy has some psycho in him... that being said, I don’t know if he is where he is if his development didn’t include so much up and down. He thrives by getting his ass kicked and coming back for more and to figure it out. 2018 was a lot of ass kicking that I think he needed. 

 

...think he needs to stop putting the entire show on his shoulders.....sure he wants to put "the drought" way in the past, but he needs to hone his confidence in his teammates.......injuries have not helped the supporting cast so far this year.....NOT pointing fingers, but asking a question:..if Frazier is THE guy, why does McD periodically find it necessary to take over D play calling duties?......

[Albany,n.y.]

2 hours ago, Irish Dave said:

Fitz will make a great QB coach and maybe OC some day.  He has said that when he pictures himself playing QB it's always in a Bills uniform; he had his best years here.  Would be great if he came back and settled here and worked for the Bills in some coaching capacity.

 

 

Fitzpatrick isn't going into coaching.  He can be a broadcaster & have a lot more time with his big family.  

[JohnNord]

1 hour ago, buffalostu2 said:

How does Tim Graham know this?   Could just be speculation.   I will wait to hear it confirmed by Eric Wood, one of Fitz's closest friends.  It is hard to understand why Fitz would not have come back here with so many close Buffalo relationships including Wood.

He never had a chance to...I believe he resigned with TB before Free Agency began.  So any discussions were probably internal.

[LABILLBACKER]

3 hours ago, Irish Dave said:

Fitz will make a great QB coach and maybe OC some day.  He has said that when he pictures himself playing QB it's always in a Bills uniform; he had his best years here.  Would be great if he came back and settled here and worked for the Bills in some coaching capacity.

 

Related - there's a lot of talk about Daboll leaving the Bills to be a HC someday soon.  But the thing is, he is FROM Buffalo and is a life long Bills fan.  When he got to return home and settle here and got this job he said this is his dream job.  Maybe he stays put?

Love to see him finish his last couple years as our backup and then transition to QB coach.

[reddogblitz]

I don't want Fitz back.

 

Been there done that.

 

I like watching him play for other teams.  That way when he throws an ill advised pick I can laugh.

 

I like the dude.  He is fun to watch.

 

However, there is a reason he has been dumped by 7 or 8 teams including us.

[msw2112]

6 hours ago, JohnNord said:

As an OC there’s no doubt that he’ll stay in Buffalo as long as he can.

 

But the ultimate goal for any NFL coach is to become a HC.  There’s only 32 spots.  If Daboll gets a chance to become a head coach, he will take it.  I don’t see him turning down HC offers so he can stay home.

 

Daboll interviewed for the Browns job last year, so I take that to mean that he would leave Buffalo to be a HC somewhere else.  I agree that as an OC, he wouldn't go anywhere other than Buffalo.  Despite the losses the last 2 weeks, it's a good young team on the rise with a highly-talented franchise QB, I suspect the Pegulas pay market rate or better, AND he gets to live in his hometown and work for the team he was a fan of growing up.

[Punching Bag]

21 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...think he needs to stop putting the entire show on his shoulders.....sure he wants to put "the drought" way in the past, but he needs to hone his confidence in his teammates.......injuries have not helped the supporting cast so far this year.....NOT pointing fingers, but asking a question:..if Frazier is THE guy, why does McD periodically find it necessary to take over D play calling duties?......

 

He took it over for half a game and the rest is media / internet speculation so hardly "periodically".  

And he would not have been promoted to assistant head coach if there was some question on his ability.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

7 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

He took it over for half a game and the rest is media / internet speculation so hardly "periodically".  

And he would not have been promoted to assistant head coach if there was some question on his ability.

 

...fair enough assessment....how about his ability to adjust, particularly when faced with the adversity of injuries?......OR....have the injuries exposed what Beane thought was significant depth?....

 

 

[Punching Bag]

1 minute ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...fair enough assessment....how about his ability to adjust, particularly when faced with the adversity of injuries?......OR....have the injuries exposed what Beane thought was significant depth?....

 

IMO 2nd half adjustments have been bad for years for the Bills.  When we on defense at home I'd blame the fans after half time since most seemed to in beer lines but this year it is not a factor.  

 

I think despite Bills appearing to do everything right during offseason the preseason was not long enough to integrate players into a complex defense more resources should have been put into LBs and DBs.  The type of injuries we are getting are indications of not enough reps.

[OldTimeAFLGuy]

9 minutes ago, Limeaid said:

 

IMO 2nd half adjustments have been bad for years for the Bills.  When we on defense at home I'd blame the fans after half time since most seemed to in beer lines but this year it is not a factor.  

 

I think despite Bills appearing to do everything right during offseason the preseason was not long enough to integrate players into a complex defense more resources should have been put into LBs and DBs.  The type of injuries we are getting are indications of not enough reps.

 

 

...quick story about McCown.......was living at a Cleveland hotel while my late wife underwent double lung transplant surgery at the Cleveland Clinic and commuting from Rochester.....turned out to be the same hotel that the Browns used....met several players, rooks, tryout kids et al........all classy folk...THE most hated by the Marriott staff was McCown......a condescending , arrogant, "don't you know who I am" woody......destined for Canton I guess.......

[Mr. WEO]

Top 10 QB picks play as rookies.  Luckily McD came to his senses with that NP lunacy 

[Thurman#1]

On 10/23/2020 at 10:41 PM, JohnNord said:

I know what you mean.  I do feel that Josh needed to learn with experience rather than watching.  He even alluded to that last season.  

 

 

Yeah, but QBs, hell, players, will always say this, whether it's true or not.

 

And there's plenty of likelihood it's not true.

4 hours ago, OldTimeAFLGuy said:

 

...fair enough assessment....how about his ability to adjust, particularly when faced with the adversity of injuries?......OR....have the injuries exposed what Beane thought was significant depth?....

 

 

 

 

Did Beane think it was enough depth? Or just the amount of depth he could manage with the cap situation as it was?

 

IMO the latter. Everyone knew they had depth problems at LB, for instance. Pretty sure Beane was aware but couldn't do better under the circumstances.

 

I have zero problems with Frazier, myself. Zero worries there.

[Thurman#1]

3 hours ago, Mr. WEO said:

Top 10 QB picks play as rookies.  Luckily McD came to his senses with that NP lunacy 

 

 

First, Mahomes says hi. So, no. And he turned out pretty decently.

 

Jake Locker was also a top ten guy and only threw 66 passes his first year, mostly in games 13 and 14, not that he turned out that well, but there are other factors that bear in QB success than playing as a rookie, including talent, how well the team develops him, the team situation and in Locker's case, particularly injuries. JaMarcus Russell also didn't play till the last week of the season, though there's no question his holdout may have contributed, not to mention his sizzurp habit. David Carr for one is a guy who should've sat for a year.

 

And second, yes, they most often do play as rookies, even if it is a really bad idea. The reason that it's so common is less that it helps the QB and far more tthat teams that pick top ten QBs tend to be overwhelmingly extremely bad teams with desperate coaches. Has nothing to do with whether the policy makes sense or hurts the development of many of the QBs affected.

 

It's the opposite of lunacy, and while Allen appears to have survived it just fine, he might have gone into the 2nd season with a much better grasp of things and better honed mechanics if they'd been able to keep him on the bench.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Thurman#1

[Mr. WEO]

4 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

You mean Alex Smith says hi?  How many top 10 pick  QBs have a guy like that ahead of them on the roster?

 

Your point is not well taken 

[FireChans]

On 10/23/2020 at 9:34 AM, JohnNord said:

Just go through watching the NYUP podcast with guest Tim Graham.  I found one tidbit really interesting.  Graham said that the Bills looked into signing Ryan Fitzpatrick or Josh McCown in the 2018 offseason as a “placeholder QB” or mentor. I believe that both re-signed with their teams before FA started, which would seem to be the reason why they eventually went with the plan B of AJ McCarron.

 

It’s fascinating to think about what could have been with a Fitzpatrick led Bills team in 2018.  I don’t see the team winning much more than they did, but the year definitely would have been fun.  It also makes you wonder what happens with Josh and to a lesser extent with Nathan Peterman as a developmental backup.   Does learning from Fitzpatrick make them better QB’s?  Does Fitz get the best out of guys like Kelvin Benjamin, Zay Jones and even a Robert Foster?
 

Would Josh sit the whole year or would the Bills have another Tua situation on their hands? It’s interesting to think what could’ve happened.  
 

 

 

Holy *****, this is the most boring podcast of all time.