For everyone freaking out about the D last night

[thebandit27]

7 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. Don't get me wrong the defense is not what it has been and it was ugly viewing but it got almost no help from the offense last night. 

The other understated moment is when the D did force a turnover and the O got in position to steal 3 points before the half—cannot miss that kick. Make it, and it’s a one score game with a minute left...can’t tell me the O approaches that final drive the same way.

[Niagara Dude]

25 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

We gave up 26 points to the Chiefs.  The only team to give up fewer this year has been the Chargers (who gave up 23 and lost) - the Patriots also allowed 26 (and lost by more than we did.) 

 

Going into this game I thought our recipe for winning against the Chiefs would be holding them to under 30 and scoring more than that.  Were you all really anticipating holding them to much less?

 

 

Our Ddefense is trash,  our offense had the ball a total of about 6 mins in the second half because the defense could not stop KC'S run.  As we have seen in all games so far our defense has been hard to watch ,  they cannot make plays or get off the field.  Usually  you come in with a gameplan to run the ball and keep the high scoring offence off the field,  our gameplan seem to be to let KC'S offense run the ball and keep them from making big plays while they themselves eat clock. 

 

The fact is our defense has no play makers and that will no change until next season,  they are what they are.  Only way to win this season is for our offence to be playing lights out and mistake free football.

 

I will just enjoy the wins and not expect too much because you cannot win in the playoffs with such a terrible defensive team.  Looking ahead Beanne can always cut guys away and start signing some real defensive play makers next season offseason.  As much as everyone wants to blame Frazier,  you really have to look at the medicore talent level he has to work with.  Just look at the tape and amount of missed tackles or DE rushing straight up field,  the one play where Mahomes goes backwards being chased by 2-3 Bills and still manages to go forward to come within inches of at first down when he should have been wrapped and KC kicking a FG.

 

At this point, Frazier is best off focusing the majority of his practices on tackling or ripping at the football,  their not going to stop anyone so you might as well just go all out for creating turnovers.

[BuffaloMatt]

Bills played well with who they have on field. Let's not overlook that we do not need to win every game here. We have to get healthy and beat the pats two weeks from now and take a strangle hold on division. Once we beat the jets and pats we will be 6-2 at the turn. Everyone on this board would have signed up for that result pre-season. Now we need to take care of these two divisional opponents and keep improving for the playoffs. It's better to be the hunter!

[BillsFanSD]

4 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

 

I'm not expecting flawless play from the offense.  They needed some first downs.  Josh passed for 120 yards and 50% accuracy.  There's not a team in the league that will beat the Chiefs with that from their QB.  

The defense gave up a 3rd-and-12 and a 3rd-and-7 on the last drive.  Maybe Allen wouldn't have pulled it out, but Joe Montana in his prime can't win if the defense can't make a stop to give him the ball.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

The first 4 games It felt like the offense was playing down hill. Last night, right from the outset, we were back on our heels. KC blitzed and got pressure and still managed to get decent coverage and had guys moving forward on screens and short stuff. That combined with a defense game plan aimed at "picking your poison" led to death from a thousand cuts.

[CountDorkula]

13 minutes ago, aristocrat said:

yup, the d slowed the chiefs offense down enough. they sold out stopping the big play offense and gave up the run.  our offense just couldn't get one more score or even keep drives going longer. 

The offense had 9 possessions to score more than 26 points.

 

Punt on 3 of those of those which is roughly average. 

6 Possessions to score more than 26

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Penfield45]

Mahomes could have thrown for 400 yards if he wanted to lol 

 

he barely missed a pass. While on the other side Allen looked like a Juco kid from Wyoming 

[GunnerBill]

Just now, thebandit27 said:

The other understated moment is when the D did force a turnover and the O got in position to steal 3 points before the half—cannot miss that kick. Make it, and it’s a one score game with a minute left...can’t tell me the O approaches that final drive the same way.

 

A defense we all know is struggling stopped one of the best QBs on the planet 3 of his first 6 drives. But the Bills offense in that period mustered 10 points. Can't win that way. 

[BillsFanSD]

Sure, it would have been nice to get that fumble, and it would have been nice if we had made that 50+ yard FG in the rain.  But if you want the play that sealed it, here you go:

 

Quote

3 & 12 - KC 33

(4:24 - 4th) P.Mahomes pass deep right to B.Pringle to BUF 30 for 37 yards (M.Hyde).

 

Prime opportunity to force a punt and give the ball back to your offense.  Instead you let the Chiefs not only convert but get right into FG range.  This was the play that ended the game, and there wasn't a single offensive player that anything to do with it.

 

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

3 minutes ago, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

The first 4 games It felt like the offense was playing down hill. Last night, right from the outset, we were back on our heels. KC blitzed and got pressure and still managed to get decent coverage and had guys moving forward on screens and short stuff. That combined with a defense game plan aimed at "picking your poison" led to death from a thousand cuts.

 

The 3rd down blitzing will continue, until we can scheme up something to prevent it.  I thought we did a nice job picking them up honestly.

 

It was the 1st and 2nd downs that were killing this team in the 2nd half.  They're sitting back in coverage - 5 DBs, soft zone.  And we can't get more than a yard or 2 on first downs rushing.  That's a serious problem.  I know KC is beastly up front on defense, but cmon.

[thebandit27]

5 minutes ago, Penfield45 said:

Mahomes could have thrown for 400 yards if he wanted to lol 

 

he barely missed a pass. While on the other side Allen looked like a Juco kid from Wyoming 

Just no. Brutal analysis. Brutal.

 

4 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

A defense we all know is struggling stopped one of the best QBs on the planet 3 of his first 6 drives. But the Bills offense in that period mustered 10 points. Can't win that way. 

Yup. Can’t miss FGs. Can’t miss open guys. Can’t drop easy throws. Can’t miss blocks routinely. Death by 1,000 cuts.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

2 minutes ago, BillsFanSD said:

Sure, it would have been nice to get that fumble, and it would have been nice if we had made that 50+ yard FG in the rain.  But if you want the play that sealed it, here you go:

 

 

Prime opportunity to force a punt and give the ball back to your offense.  Instead you let the Chiefs not only convert but get right into FG range.  This was the play that ended the game, and there wasn't a single offensive player that anything to do with it.

 

 

After the previous drive it almost felt like... if they got that stop - KC was going to have to scramble to salvage the game.  

[machine gun kelly]

I don’t see the Jests as a huge game.  We need to have on the bench Edmunds, White, Milano, and Brown.  They can be active, but emergencies.  We need to beat the 0-6 Jests without them, and have them really healthy for the Pats and Hawks.  We can be 5-2 without them, but have them n their game to at least be 7-3 after those two teams.  My hope as always is we are 8-2.  The Hawks are scary on offense.  The Pats are going to try and run it down our throat. Expect it.  Michel is on IR which doesn’t help them.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

Yup. Can’t miss FGs. Can’t miss open guys. Can’t drop easy throws. Can’t miss blocks routinely. Death by 1,000 cuts.

 

and can't take 4.7 seconds to hit the hole. Watching CEH after watching our guys was like someone had hit the fast forward button on a 1994 VCR.

[D. L. Hot-Flamethrower]

Just now, dneveu said:

 

After the previous drive it almost felt like... if they got that stop - KC was going to have to scramble to salvage the game.  

If we'd gotten the fumble, I bet we score and take the lead. However, I have no confidence that KC doesn't come right down the field and get at LEAST a FG to retake the lead. This game was a an anomaly in being we had a chance.

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

and can't take 4.7 seconds to hit the hole. Watching CEH after watching our guys was like someone had hit the fast forward button on a 1994 VCR.

Moss not only looked slow, but tentative hitting the hole. He's supposed to be a power guy, so far he's not that.

[Stank_Nasty]

19 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

The other understated moment is when the D did force a turnover and the O got in position to steal 3 points before the half—cannot miss that kick. Make it, and it’s a one score game with a minute left...can’t tell me the O approaches that final drive the same way.

for me the biggest letdown from the offense was the bills D coming right out at the half and forcing a punt and then the offense proceeded to go three and out. A drive that ended with Allen missing a routine 5 yd throw to beasley where he had room to run in front of him. up to that point the D had allowed 13 pts into the midway point of the 3rd quarter. I'm not sure how long people thought they were expected to hold down the Chiefs....

Edited October 20, 2020 by Stank_Nasty

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, machine gun kelly said:

I don’t see the Jests as a huge game.  We need to have on the bench Edmunds, White, Milano, and Brown.  They can be active, but emergencies.  We need to beat the 0-6 Jests without them, and have them really healthy for the Pats and Hawks.  We can be 5-2 without them, but have them n their game to at least be 7-3 after those two teams.  My hope as always is we are 8-2.  The Hawks are scary on offense.  The Pats are going to try and run it down our throat. Expect it.  Michel is on IR which doesn’t help them.

 

The gameplan against the Pats will be more of the Titans / Raiders plan of don't let Jacobs or Henry beat you. It worked when LV was throwing to Aghlor and Jones. It worked less when Tanny was throwing to AJ Brown and that tight end. I'm not sure the Pats have the weapons to beat us.

 

I had us 4-0. I had us 4-2. I have us 6-2. I still believe we will be. The first game where I feel less good about my pre-season call is the Seahawks who I had us beating. I thought they were going to be an 8 or 9 win team. I undervalued what having Russ still does for them.

[Dablitzkrieg]

I'm sorry, you can spin this all you want.  The defense sucks and Josh is regressing.  It should interesting to see what happens Sunday.  They better massacre the ***** Jets

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, D. L. Hot-Flamethrower said:

If we'd gotten the fumble, I bet we score and take the lead. However, I have no confidence that KC doesn't come right down the field and get at LEAST a FG to retake the lead. This game was a an anomaly in being we had a chance.

 

yeah.  It reminded me of the browns game last year (more frustrating, but similar failures - run D, 3rd down, kicking etc).  So I was expecting that result.  We drive down score, get happy - then they immediately carve up the defense and take the lead.  I believe hauschka missed a FG at the end of that one too.  

[CountDorkula]

7 minutes ago, thebandit27 said:

Just no. Brutal analysis. Brutal.

 

Yup. Can’t miss FGs. Can’t miss open guys. Can’t drop easy throws. Can’t miss blocks routinely. Death by 1,000 cuts.

 

Mahomes absolute could have. He averaged just under 9 yards per completion. which is above his career average.

 

80% completion rate for 225 yards, without trying. 

[Chuck Wagon]

I don't care how many points the D gave up.  When a team has Mahomes - Hill - Kelce and they are comfortable just running it down your throat and playing keep away, that's a gigantic red flag on any D.

[Bleeding Bills Blue]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

The gameplan against the Pats will be more of the Titans / Raiders plan of don't let Jacobs or Henry beat you. It worked when LV was throwing to Aghlor and Jones. It worked less when Tanny was throwing to AJ Brown and that tight end. I'm not sure the Pats have the weapons to beat us.

 

I had us 4-0. I had us 4-2. I have us 6-2. I still believe we will be. The first game where I feel less good about my pre-season call is the Seahawks who I had us beating. I thought they were going to be an 8 or 9 win team. I undervalued what having Russ still does for them.

 

It's going to be this same gameplan against russ too... lots of zone and not letting them hit home runs.  Carson is pretty good too.  

[thebandit27]

Just now, CountDorkula said:

 

Mahomes absolute could have. He averaged just under 9 yards per completion. which is above his career average.

 

80% completion rate for 225 yards, without trying. 

Hmmm...so why on earth would a brilliant play caller like Reid just decide that scoring points and gaining yards isn’t important?

[CountDorkula]

1 minute ago, thebandit27 said:

Hmmm...so why on earth would a brilliant play caller like Reid just decide that scoring points and gaining yards isn’t important?

Because they were running the ball in the first half for 10 Yards a carry?

 

They gained nearly 500 yards of offense. Stop acting like we shut the team down. 

 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2020 by CountDorkula

[thebandit27]

Just now, CountDorkula said:

Because they were running the ball in the first half for 10 Yards a carry?

 

 

 

And why did that happen? Hint: listen to Mahomes postgame interview 

[Captain Caveman]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

Last night's offensive struggles were not all on Josh. He didn't play great, he missed some chances early and then started pressing but he didn't get much assistance either. It was the worst pass blocking day our line has had, our running backs are slow and apart from Diggs there were not many guys getting open.

 

Yeah, I don't think he played great, but I agree it's not all on him.  But I do think we're not beating out the Chiefs without a better game from him and the whole offense.

[GunnerBill]

Just now, Captain Caveman said:

 

Yeah, I don't think he played great, but I agree it's not all on him.  But I do think we're not beating out the Chiefs without a better game from him and the whole offense.

 

Agreed.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

1 hour ago, Captain Caveman said:

We gave up 26 points to the Chiefs.  The only team to give up fewer this year has been the Chargers (who gave up 23 and lost) - the Patriots also allowed 26 (and lost by more than we did.) 

 

Going into this game I thought our recipe for winning against the Chiefs would be holding them to under 30 and scoring more than that.  Were you all really anticipating holding them to much less?

 

The Chargers held them to 23 points and lost

NE 26 points and lost

 

I wasn't expecting us to hold them to much less, but the situation football sucked.  There were places where we needed to set the edge and contain, where we had 3rd and long and we needed to hold, and we didn't.

[Haslett_Stomp]

I miss the "Daboll is a hot candidate for head coach" threads.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

3 minutes ago, Captain Caveman said:

 

Yeah, I don't think he played great, but I agree it's not all on him.  But I do think we're not beating out the Chiefs without a better game from him and the whole offense.

 

Absolutely.  The offense did NOT do enough, and some but not all of that is on Josh.  I actually thought he showed a lot of poise - it seemed like there were red jerseys in his face all night and for a lot of it he was "I don't care"

 

It was sucky weather for passing and especially early on, Josh had some chances we could not capitalize on.  His ball placement sucked early on, for whatever reason.  I wonder if "fear of turnovers" was partly on his head and he was erring too far on the side of caution.

 

In the end though, the game came down to "they had a running game, we didn't; they had a run D, we didn't"

 

And oh yeah, much much better game for our ST but that makeable FG at the end of the half would absolutely have helped.

[Captain Caveman]

28 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

The offense had 9 possessions to score more than 26 points.

 

Punt on 3 of those of those which is roughly average. 

6 Possessions to score more than 26

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we pick up a few more first downs and help the defense out a bit more it's possible we only need to score 20 or 23 points.

[Wayne Cubed]

I said this after the game last night and I'll say it again, it wasn't a bad game plan by the Bills defense. They "forced" or dared the Chiefs to run. They took the ball out of Mahomes hands. Why does it matter how many yards per carry they were averaging? Did it hurt the Bills on the scoreboard? Did they run soooooooo much that the game was out of reach? No of course they didn't. It was very nearly a tie ball at the half and it was a 1 score game in the 4th quarter. 

 

Let me ask this, if the game plan was different and the Bills bottled up the Chiefs and they couldn't run the ball so were forced to pass... what difference do you think that would have made to the scoreboard?

[CountDorkula]

1 minute ago, Wayne Cubed said:

I said this after the game last night and I'll say it again, it wasn't a bad game plan by the Bills defense. They "forced" or dared the Chiefs to run. They took the ball out of Mahomes hands. Why does it matter how many yards per carry they were averaging? Did it hurt the Bills on the scoreboard? Did they run soooooooo much that the game was out of reach? No of course they didn't. It was very nearly a tie ball at the half and it was a 1 score game in the 4th quarter. 

 

Let me ask this, if the game plan was different and the Bills bottled up the Chiefs and they couldn't run the ball so were forced to pass... what difference do you think that would have made to the scoreboard?

 

Mahomes missed a Wide open Kelce, who would have walked 40 yards for a TD last night.

KC Could have doen whatever they wanted. The Bills defense had zero response to Mahomes and KC.

 

Gamplan was garbage, execution was garbage.

 

[Buff76ers]

1 hour ago, SirAndrew said:

The only reason we held them to a relatively low point total was our attempt at ball control offense (we had one long drive), and the fact Andy Reid decided to run the ball all night. We never really stopped them, and I think they could have thrown the ball all over the yard if they wanted. 

Playing coverage all night is the reason why the ran so well.  You must pick your poison and if we would have stacked the box and limited their running then PM would have had big numbers in the pass game.  Overall it was the right thing to do but dang we need a plug in the middle to help with run D.  

[Over 29 years of fanhood]

6 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

 

Mahomes missed a Wide open Kelce, who would have walked 40 yards for a TD last night.

KC Could have doen whatever they wanted. The Bills defense had zero response to Mahomes and KC.

 

Gamplan was garbage, execution was garbage.

 

I sort of agree. In those conditions, playing scared on d is foolish. They essentially played the same defense that titans played vs bills, except KC can run the ball. 
 

In that weather play up and if you get torched deep then back off. 

Edited October 20, 2020 by Over 29 years of fanhood

[Wayne Cubed]

Just now, CountDorkula said:

 

Mahomes missed a Wide open Kelce, who would have walked 40 yards for a TD last night.

KC Could have doen whatever they wanted. The Bills defense had zero response to Mahomes and KC.

 

Gamplan was garbage, execution was garbage.

 

 

But they didn't, they didn't do what they wanted. And Mahomes didn't complete the pass. You are talking in what ifs... I'm talking in what played out. They decided to put the ball into their RBs hands and what did that get them? The Bills literally played cover, had lite numbers in the box and told the Chiefs to go ahead a run. Why? Because it's the lesser of two evils. Do you really think the Bills defense was going to completely stop the Chiefs? Is that what you expected? The Balimore Ravens defense, which is miles better, couldn't stop the Chiefs. 

 

 

[CountDorkula]

Just now, Wayne Cubed said:

 

But they didn't, they didn't do what they wanted. And Mahomes didn't complete the pass. You are talking in what ifs... I'm talking in what played out. They decided to put the ball into their RBs hands and what did that get them? The Bills literally played cover, had lite numbers in the box and told the Chiefs to go ahead a run. Why? Because it's the lesser of two evils. Do you really think the Bills defense was going to completely stop the Chiefs? Is that what you expected? The Balimore Ravens defense, which is miles better, couldn't stop the Chiefs. 

 

 

They moist certainly did. mahomes 5 incompletions

Ran that ball with whatever RB they wanted.

When Mahomes didnt pass he scrmabled for 6 yards a carry.

 

Also everyone on here is talking about the What Ifs with buffalo. If we made one more stop if we made that FG.

You cant do that with buffalo and just ignore the KC side of it. 

 

[Wayne Cubed]

2 minutes ago, CountDorkula said:

They moist certainly did. mahomes 5 incompletions

Ran that ball with whatever RB they wanted.

When Mahomes didnt pass he scrmabled for 6 yards a carry.

 

Also everyone on here is talking about the What Ifs with buffalo. If we made one more stop if we made that FG.

You cant do that with buffalo and just ignore the KC side of it. 

 

 

Mahomes threw it less than his 2020 average. I don't care about his completion percentage, that's not what his is about.  He threw less passes, that's what it's about. Do you think if he threw his average amount of times per game, that the Chiefs still would have only scored 26 points? Is that what you think?

Edited October 20, 2020 by Wayne Cubed

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:

I sort of agree. In those conditions, playing scared on d is foolish. They essentially played the same defense that titans played vs bills, except KC can run the ball. 
 

In that weather play up and if you get torched deep then back off. 

 

Um, no, @Over 29 years of fanhood.   No, the Bills did not play the same defense against the Titans and the Chiefs.

 

The Titans can by damn run the ball.  263 rush yards against the Texans.  What we did against the Titans is we said "we're going to limit your run game, beat us passing if you can".  The Titans said "OK"

 

What we did against the Chiefs is said "we're going to play first to take away your deep passing game, your quick strike passing.  Beat us running and with underneath stuff if you can."  The Chiefs said "OK, and while we're at it, we'll just grind out yards, convert 3rd downs, and keep the ball away from your offense"

 

[Realist]

Can blame the offense all you want, they did play bad, but I feel if the defense made just a couple of stops on third down in the second half, the Bills would have scored and possibly pulled this one out.