NFL illegal block rule

[Bob in STL]

5 hours ago, Simon said:

you could say he's moving when he lunges forward with his shoulder

its a penalty now and will get called every time

This was an unfortunate and nit picky call.  On this play the Dolphin player ran into the Bills player.  What should he do, jump out of the way?  
 

This was a case for league replay to overturn terrible calls.  There was intent to injure.  
 

 

[GoBills808]

16 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It was just called on TJ Lockett a couple of minutes ago. Pretty close to the Same play.

Not a mistake. They are calling it, and the rule is clear regardless of whether we like it. Just called it on Lockett. Players have to know the rules.

So should fans😂😂

[pennstate10]

14 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

It was just called on TJ Lockett a couple of minutes ago. Pretty close to the Same play.

Not a mistake. They are calling it, and the rule is clear regardless of whether we like it. Just called it on Lockett. Players have to know the rules.

Yeah it was the same play except it wasnt.

 

Lookit, what happened is crystal clear.  The Dolphins defender was focused on the ball carrier and didnt see McKenzie, who was directly facing him.

 So he was surprised when McKenzies shoulder knocked him sideways.

 

It was a bad call, simple as that.  Refs make mistakes.  This particular official should watch this play 100 times, then go onto a field and have the play re-enacted for him with live players, understand the angle, and understand why he was wrong, so he doesnt make the same mistake again.

 

I have no idea why you're trying to defend the call.

[dubs]

That call on McKenzie was one of the worst calls of all time. McKenzie was facing forward and the hit was shoulder to shoulder and he didn’t even really lunge into him.  Brutal call. 

[Old Coot]

Formerly called a crackback block which has been illegal for years!

 

[dubs]

 

[dave mcbride]

44 minutes ago, pennstate10 said:

Yeah it was the same play except it wasnt.

 

Lookit, what happened is crystal clear.  The Dolphins defender was focused on the ball carrier and didnt see McKenzie, who was directly facing him.

 So he was surprised when McKenzies shoulder knocked him sideways.

 

It was a bad call, simple as that.  Refs make mistakes.  This particular official should watch this play 100 times, then go onto a field and have the play re-enacted for him with live players, understand the angle, and understand why he was wrong, so he doesnt make the same mistake again.

 

I have no idea why you're trying to defend the call.

You can’t use your shoulder on an aggressive blindside block, which is what mckenzie did. Full stop. It is what it is, even though I don’t like it. Just do a screening block in the future. It will have the same effect.

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, dave mcbride said:

You can’t use your shoulder on an aggressive blindside block, which is what mckenzie did. Full stop. It is what it is, even though I don’t like it. Just do a screening block in the future. It will have the same effect.

A blindside block has to be parallel to the LOS or toward your endzone. McKenzie was facing the opponent’s end zone. It cannot be a blindside block.

[That's No Moon]

6 hours ago, Simon said:

the key is he initiated forcible contact with his shoulder

That's true, but he was moving toward the opposing goalline.  Whatever, it's the same with everything in  he NFL these days, if you hit someone too hard it's going to be a flag.

[pennstate10]

10 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

You can’t use your shoulder on an aggressive blindside block, which is what mckenzie did. Full stop. It is what it is, even though I don’t like it. Just do a screening block in the future. It will have the same effect.

Youre incorrect.

It wasnt a blind side block.

the players were face to face. They literally hit R anterior shoulder to R anterior shoulder.  With each player facing the opponent s goaline.

Its not MacKenzies fault that the defender was unaware. 

[Simon]

13 minutes ago, That's No Moon said:

That's true, but he was moving toward the opposing goalline.  

 

He was until he came to a dead stop and then used his shoulder to lunge into the defender parallel to the LOS. That was the point where it became a penalty.

1 hour ago, WideNine said:

 

Similar to the Ford block in the playoff game where the defender simply was not looking at all in the direction he was running as he was tracking Allen and all Ford did was brace himself a bit to ensure he was not the player that was going to fly back in the wrong direction.

 

 

 

Yeah I thought the Ford call was horsespit as Ford did not initiate any forcible contact regardless of angle.

 

[That's No Moon]

1 minute ago, Simon said:

 

He was until he came to a dead stop and then lunged into the defender with his shoulder parallel to the LOS. That was the point where it became a penalty.

I don't believe it was parallel but neither of us are going to get a camera angle that shows whether it was parallel or not.  It was close and it was a hard hit on a play that looked illegal.  It's going to be called every time.  It's the same as the defenseless receiver thing.  You just can't hit a player in the middle of the field. It's going to be called every time whether or not the player gets hit in the head or the chest or anywhere. It doesn't matter.  If it's a hard hit the flag is coming.  As an old guy I'd love to be able to transport Jim and Andre from 1987 to the modern day. Jim would never get hit late or low and he could have played until he was 45 rather than 35. Andre would be able to run across the middle with even more abandon than he already did.

[GoBills808]

This thread is basically a few folks slowly realizing a blindside block has a definition beyond ‘he didn’t see him coming’

[Bermuda Triangle]

24 minutes ago, dave mcbride said:

You can’t use your shoulder on an aggressive blindside block, which is what mckenzie did. Full stop. It is what it is, even though I don’t like it. Just do a screening block in the future. It will have the same effect.

It wasn't a blindside block, per the NFL rules.  Full stop.

[Simon]

3 hours ago, MPT said:

 

 He might have gotten the wind knocked out of him, but there was no risk of injury there. 

 

Before, you were just wrong about a call that they have been making consistently for two years. 

 

Suggesting there is no risk of injury in that scenario has taken you into a stratosphere about which I will reserve comment. Permanently.

Enjoy the season.

[JaCrispy]

7 hours ago, Simon said:

"a player initiates a block in which he is moving toward or parallel to his own end line and makes forcible contact to his opponent with his helmet, forearm, or shoulder"

 

They've been calling it for a couple years to minimize concussions and whether we like or not that was a penalty on McKenzie

Does this mean players are no longer allowed to block guys running from across the field? Seems like a weird rule, if so, as guys are always running towards the sidelines...

[Simon]

4 minutes ago, JaCrispy said:

Does this mean players are no longer allowed to block guys running from across the field? Seems like a weird rule, if so, as guys are always running towards the sidelines...

 

The key is you cant "initiate" "forcible" contact with your shoulder, forearm, helmet, etc. 

You can get in his way, you can ride him, you can redirect him you can go down in a tangle of legs with him, but if you pop a guy coming across the field you are going to get flagged.

The reason the rule now exists is that it's a treacherous area as far as taking concussions (whether its the actual contact, hitting the turf or even the whiplash) 

[MPT]

7 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Before, you were just wrong about a call that they have been making consistently for two years. 

 

Suggesting there is no risk of injury in that scenario has taken you into a stratosphere about which I will reserve comment. Permanently.

Enjoy the season.

 

Okay technically there is always a risk of injury on any football play. However, this was not as dangerous of a play as you make it out to be. If you would watch the replay you would know that. You would also know that he was facing the opponent's end zone when it happened. Weird hill to die on, man. 

[Livinginthepast]

Until the NFL allows coaches to challenge bad penalties, the refs will continue to just guess at calls. The call on Mckenzie looked like a blindside block at full speed. I was actually surprised when I didnt see a penalty called right away.  It would have been better if Mckenzie just stood his ground and slowed the Fins player down. In any case these players have to get up to speed on these rule changes. The same call against the Bills in the playoff game vs Houston was absolutely killer.

[Augie]

1 hour ago, dubs said:

 

 

It’s a crappy rule, and this does NOT violate the crappy rule. Double suck! He’s facing the end zone he is trying to get to. He’s just playing football. 

 

Maybe there should be a rule against defensive player running towards their own end zone? Only way to prevent that! Oh! Wait! That’s completely idiotic too! 

 

 

.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Augie

[MPT]

1 hour ago, Old Coot said:

Formerly called a crackback block which has been illegal for years!

 

 

You have to know the rule before you can give a ***** about it. The rule says he must be facing his own end zone or parallel to it. He wasn't. It's even in the name of the old penalty you referenced. Crack back. As in, back. As in, blocking back toward your own end zone. Not forward, like blocking forward toward the opponent's end zone, which is just called a block.

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

7 hours ago, Ya Digg? said:

It was a great, clean block-there has to be awareness by the defense too. He didn’t launch at him, he didn’t hit him in the head/neck, it was simply a bad call. The dolphins CB had pretty much literally no awareness on that play 

 

agree completely. As the defender, you can’t be running with blinders on and not see a guy that is literally in front of you. Bad call. 

[GoBills808]

I mean how can Bills fans of all people not recognize something that is moving forward from something that is moving laterally😂😂

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I mean how can Bills fans of all people not recognize something that is moving forward from something that is moving laterally😂😂

 

Yeah, it's mind-blowing to me how some of you can't see the obvious. 

 

And I already made the Frank Wychek joke earlier but I'm not sure anybody got it 🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

[MPT]

5 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Yeah, it's mind-blowing to me how some of you can't see the obvious. 

 

And I already made the Frank Wychek joke earlier but I'm not sure anybody got it 🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

 

Wait are you seriously saying he was facing his own end zone? Is this just an elaborate troll job?

 

And yes, we all got the joke. I think we're all just more concerned that one of our fellow posters seems to be having a psychotic break.

Edited September 21, 2020 by MPT

[brianb386]

So trap plays that kick the defender to the outside are illegal now? Or is it blocking from the outside in? I don't think I understand the rule, but pretty sure I don't like it.

[GoBills808]

9 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

Yeah, it's mind-blowing to me how some of you can't see the obvious. 

 

And I already made the Frank Wychek joke earlier but I'm not sure anybody got it 🤷‍♂️

 

 

 

I think calling this block parallel to the LOS is a stretch, it’s pretty apparent to me at least he’s moving forward

 

i mean look at where the defender is coming from and where McKenzie makes contact

[Simon]

2 minutes ago, GoBills808 said:

I think calling this block parallel to the LOS is a stretch, it’s pretty apparent to me at least he’s moving forward

 

i mean look at where the defender is coming from and where McKenzie makes contact

 

He was definitely moving forward.

Until he stopped and then lunged sideways and along the LOS into the defender. When he lunged into the block he was moving "parallel to his own end line". 

[GoBills808]

Just now, Simon said:

 

He was definitely moving forward.

Until he stopped and then lunged sideways and along the LOS into the defender. When he lunged into the block he was moving "parallel to his own end line". 

Well agree to disagree

[Simon]

Just now, GoBills808 said:

Well agree to disagree

 

It happens. 

9 minutes ago, brianb386 said:

So trap plays that kick the defender to the outside are illegal now? Or is it blocking from the outside in? I don't think I understand the rule, but pretty sure I don't like it.

 

I've never seen it called on a trap.

 

I've only seen it called on a guy who was lined up outside and was cracking back(even above the waist now).

And in that case, it's getting called every time I see it.

[brianb386]

12 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

It happens. 

 

I've never seen it called on a trap.

 

I've only seen it called on a guy who was lined up outside and was cracking back(even above the waist now).

And in that case, it's getting called every time I see it.

I guess the argument can be made that he was laterally, still don't like it in that situation with Mckenzie.

[Tenhigh]

39 minutes ago, MPT said:

 

You have to know the rule before you can give a ***** about it. The rule says he must be facing his own end zone or parallel to it. He wasn't. It's even in the name of the old penalty you referenced. Crack back. As in, back. As in, blocking back toward your own end zone. Not forward, like blocking forward toward the opponent's end zone, which is just called a block.

Doesn't the rule actually say he needs to be MOVING TOWARDS OR PARALLEL to the end zone, not facing it, right? Looking at that replay, the defender seems to be coming toward McKenzie, who stops and drives back parallel to the end zone to block the guy.  If that's the case, how isn't it a penalty?

Edited September 21, 2020 by Tenhigh

[MPT]

2 minutes ago, Tenhigh said:

Doesn't the rule actually say he needs to be MOVING TOWARDS not Facing it, right? Looking at that replay, the defender seems to be coming toward McKenzie, who stops and drives back parallel to the end zone to block the guy.  If that's the case, how isn't it a penalty?

 

The defender is coming at him from a 45 degree angle. McKenzie squares up and stops moving well before contact at that same angle. The defender runs into him at that same angle.

 

You two do a little too much drinking today?  Maybe sleep it off and then watch the replay without it spinning around on you.

[Monty98]

The NFL just needs to go the way of college football. Targeting (defenseless player/crown of the helmet) should be subject to automatic review. At least they can take a second look that isn't in real time. Those plays always look worse in real time where the replay allows you to confirm the penalty or pick up the flag.

[Ethan in Cleveland]

4 hours ago, Monty98 said:

The NFL just needs to go the way of college football. Targeting (defenseless player/crown of the helmet) should be subject to automatic review. At least they can take a second look that isn't in real time. Those plays always look worse in real time where the replay allows you to confirm the penalty or pick up the flag.

Agreed. The refs are seeing big collisions and assuming personal foul.  

[Tenhigh]

8 hours ago, MPT said:

 

The defender is coming at him from a 45 degree angle. McKenzie squares up and stops moving well before contact at that same angle. The defender runs into him at that same angle.

 

You two do a little too much drinking today?  Maybe sleep it off and then watch the replay without it spinning around on you.

I didn't drink at all yesterday, I just watched the play without prejudice.  Take a look at it again this morning.  The defender is coming in at a 45 degree angle..  Mckenzie planted his feet right on the 25 yard line and drove his shoulder directly back across the 25 yard line, making contact right on the 25.  Do you disagree with this course of events?

[MPT]

8 hours ago, Tenhigh said:

I didn't drink at all yesterday, I just watched the play without prejudice.  Take a look at it again this morning.  The defender is coming in at a 45 degree angle..  Mckenzie planted his feet right on the 25 yard line and drove his shoulder directly back across the 25 yard line, making contact right on the 25.  Do you disagree with this course of events?

 

Yes, I disagree. As does almost the entire football world and the actual video. Just look at the still image from the replay below. McKenzie is STILL facing more to the Dolphins end zone and that's AFTER the collision spun him toward the 25 yard line. His last movement right before contact is about a 4 inch lean toward the defender (who is, again, coming from a 45 degree angle) so he doesn't get run over.

 

McKenzie is 5 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than the guy he was blocking. If you expect him to not even brace for the hit, you're just rooting for him to get injured. I really don't know what your agenda is here, but it's certainly not player safety.

 

 

[Miyagi-Do Karate]

42 minutes ago, MPT said:

 

Yes, I disagree. As does almost the entire football world and the actual video. Just look at the still image from the replay below. McKenzie is STILL facing more to the Dolphins end zone and that's AFTER the collision spun him toward the 25 yard line. His last movement right before contact is about a 4 inch lean toward the defender (who is, again, coming from a 45 degree angle) so he doesn't get run over.

 

McKenzie is 5 inches shorter and 40 pounds lighter than the guy he was blocking. If you expect him to not even brace for the hit, you're just rooting for him to get injured. I really don't know what your agenda is here, but it's certainly not player safety.

 

 

looking at this again, the defender is an idiot. He takes a horrible angle to begin with and wasn’t going to even come close to Moss. He was like a full yard behind him.  I think McK was setting him up, figuring he would actually go and try to tackle Moss at the correct angle. 

[MPT]

19 minutes ago, JR in Pittsburgh said:

looking at this again, the defender is an idiot. He takes a horrible angle to begin with and wasn’t going to even come close to Moss. He was like a full yard behind him.  I think McK was setting him up, figuring he would actually go and try to tackle Moss at the correct angle. 

 

The other video shows the angle better. The defender definitely would have had a good chance to tackle Moss. McKenzie is facing away from Moss for a significant amount of time so I don't think he would be able to know exactly where Moss was to set up a misdirection like that. He just knows from practice and watching the defender where he's supposed to set up for the block.

Edited September 21, 2020 by MPT

[Rochesterfan]

21 minutes ago, MPT said:

 

The other video shows the angle better. The defender definitely would have had a good chance to tackle Moss. McKenzie is facing away from Moss for a significant amount of time so I don't think he would be able to know exactly where Moss was to set up a misdirection like that. He just knows from practice and watching the defender where he's supposed to set up for the block.

 

I think McKenzie was fine right up to the block,  he didn’t just tense up for the hit - He lunged right along the yard and hit him directly with his shoulder.

 

He needed to do the old Ole’ block - just pushing the guy slightly.  The size of the guys don’t matter - the NFL is working to outlaw this type of block and have been regularly calling this.