How not to protect your blue chip franchise QB

[Buffalo_Gal]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

That was one of two trullllly problematic throws I saw today.  But its still not enough to say its a "consistency problem," ya know? 

I agree.  First the "magic number" was 60% completions, so he has a 70%+ game, and still people complain. What will it take? 80%? 90%? I think there are a lot of people doomed to be disappointed. Reading a lot of these responses, you'd have though Josh had played at Darnold's level today. 🤷‍♂️ 

[LB48]

2 hours ago, TonyBeets said:

Everytime i see a run designed play for JA, it makes me think the franchise doesn't value JA as a franchise QB.  He took some big hits today.

 

JA needs to stop taking hits on his scrambles.  The designed runs need to stop.  This kid could be our franchise QB.

I don't think they DON'T value him as a franchise QB.  He has to stay in the pocket and make quick decisions. 

[Bills Oil Company]

Agree, but in today's NFL a running QB is more dangerous than ever because of all the rule changes to protect them.  Defensive players are afraid to hit QBs "incorrectly" even when the Qb's are rushing for yardage.  This is why Josh can easily make so many guys whiff.   Can't hit him low, or high, or on the head, or late.   There's value in his running ability, but they need to be much smarter in the play calls (up 21-0 and cruising to a win isn't the time).  And Josh has got to protect the ball.   Absolute must.   Many don't seem to be worried, but this a worrying trend that's not getting better.   

[Turk71]

16 minutes ago, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

 

 

Stats don't tell the whole story--no one who watched that game walked away thinking the pass protection is a problem. As far as the run game, well, the Jets did have the best yds/c run defense in the league last year. 

I realize the Jets have a good run d, but I guarantee they don't hold opposing rbs to anywhere close to 2.3 y/c this season.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Turk71

[apuszczalowski]

5 minutes ago, billsfan89 said:

 

Allen should have reign to run if he scrambles and nothing is there. Don't take the running threat away but these read option and designed run plays are designed in a way for a QB to take contact. No issues with Josh running if he does it in a smart way. But stop designing plays for him to run. 

 

But where those designed runs helping open things up for him in the passing game since the rest of the running game couldn't get it going today? As I said a few times earlier, the issue isn't the designed runs but teaching Allen to go down or get out of bounds to not take the hits. If the running game was working today with Singleterry and Moss, they probably wouldn't need to run Allen as much

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, Turk71 said:

I realize the Jets have a good run d, but I guarantee they don't hold opposing rbs to anywhere close to 2.3 y/c this season.

Not a good run D. The best run D in the league. 

[NoSaint]

5 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I agree.  First the "magic number" was 60% completions, so he has a 70%+ game, and still people complain. What will it take? 80%? 90%? I think there are a lot of people doomed to be disappointed. Reading a lot of these responses, you'd have though Josh had played at Darnold's level today. 🤷‍♂️ 

when you come in with a reputation, and play to it, it inevitably takes more than 1 game to get credit for consistent accuracy. 
 

we will see how he evolves and how the comments do too.

[LB48]

36 minutes ago, GG said:

 

You can make an argument that continuing the over-reliance on the read option also stunts Allen's development as a passer.  This has to stop.

Thank you.

[Turk71]

Just now, JoshAllenHasBigHands said:

Not a good run D. The best run D in the league. 

Like I said, they won't hold opposing rbs to 2.3 y/c this season like they did today, not even anywhere close to that.

[Coach Tuesday]

The point is just about protecting your investment.  For whatever reason the organization has taken a cavalier/borderline negligent approach to protecting Allen and increasing their margin for error.  Allen rather remarkably has succeeded despite it - as opposed to the guy on the other team today who did not look good enough to win games all by himself like Allen can.  

[JoshAllenHasBigHands]

1 minute ago, Turk71 said:

Like I said, they won't hold opposing rbs to 2.3 y/c this season like they did today, not even anywhere close to that.

 

Last year the Jets held opponents to 3.3 y/c. Today we averaged 3.1 y/c.  Sure, it could have been better. But this is, for the most part, a massive nothing-burger. 

[BigDingus]

He should've had what, 4 or 5 easy TD passes today though that he just missed?

At this point I feel like it's just par for the course for Allen. You need him to run to keep the defenses humble & helps open it up for easier passing plays for him throughout the game. The defense has to see he's going to be used as a running threat to keep them honest, but at the same time you're right, can't just keep taking huge hits all game.

Josh also needs to learn how to scamper better, slide, drop to the ground before taking hits or just get out of bounds. There's times he could either go down earlier, protect himself better or even just give up on a failed play sooner. I feel like only letting him run on broken plays will not go well. But yes, we need to find a way to ensure he's not KO'd out of a game or seriously injured. 

[apuszczalowski]

1 minute ago, NoSaint said:

when you come in with a reputation, and play to it, it inevitably takes more than 1 game to get credit for consistent accuracy. 
 

we will see how he evolves and how the comments do too.

How dare you

He had one game with a high completion percentage and broke 300 yards that eliminates any previous things ever said about him. Of course if he had 1 bad game those same people would be here telling us how the sample size is too small to come to any conclusions

 

No one in here has complained about his performance today, but if you aren't fawning over how perfect he is at every aspect of the game, your a hater who is unhappy and miserable

[Simon]

14 minutes ago, Bills Oil Company said:

Agree, but in today's NFL a running QB is more dangerous than ever because of all the rule changes to protect them.  Defensive players are afraid to hit QBs "incorrectly" even when the Qb's are rushing for yardage... Can't hit him low, or high, or on the head, or late.   

 

This is not true. When he's a ball carrier those protections disappear and you can bust him up all you like.

 

[US Egg]

Did the Bills lose ?

[LABILLBACKER]

They'll learn the hard way when he gets injured and is out most of the season. I get that he's athletic and plays alot like Cam, but the sheer volume of designed run plays is irresponsible. Aside from a couple stupid overthrows, Josh threw well today. I only want to see him run on scrambles.

[Motor26]

He should watch Russel Wilson tape. He may have a couple designed runs a game, but most of his rushing yards come off scrambles, and he never takes a big hit cuz he slides or gets out of bounds. I think he ran so much today because the oline was getting no push and he was the most effective running option. I’d imagine they’ll try and get Devin and Moss going next week.

Edited September 14, 2020 by Motor26

[Bills Oil Company]

4 minutes ago, Simon said:

 

This is not true. When he's a ball carrier those protections disappear and you can bust him up all you like.

 

 

But they don't because he can slide at any time and most QBs will - again, highly likely to result in 15 yd penalty if you bust him up.  

 

The problem is Josh doesn't get his arse down and go feet first.  All his fumbles tend to be with him leaning forward after contact and trying to get extra yards like a RB.   Lamar Jackson doesn't do this and its why he doesn't fumble when he runs the football.   He gets down or out of bounds. 

[Numark3]

Sure you aren’t taking about Darnold???

[billsfan89]

29 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

But where those designed runs helping open things up for him in the passing game since the rest of the running game couldn't get it going today? As I said a few times earlier, the issue isn't the designed runs but teaching Allen to go down or get out of bounds to not take the hits. If the running game was working today with Singleterry and Moss, they probably wouldn't need to run Allen as much

 

The issue is that the designed runs expose him to being hit in a way that is not more avoidable. Without Josh bulldozing his way forward those runs are less effective. The design of the play is the issue. If the running game isn't working with Singletary or Moss just go with short passes and screens more. No need to take unnecessary risks with your potential franchise QB.

Edited September 14, 2020 by billsfan89

[Numark3]

29 minutes ago, Buffalo_Gal said:

I agree.  First the "magic number" was 60% completions, so he has a 70%+ game, and still people complain. What will it take? 80%? 90%? I think there are a lot of people doomed to be disappointed. Reading a lot of these responses, you'd have though Josh had played at Darnold's level today. 🤷‍♂️ 

we both know the true standard....95% Minshew (whatever the hell that is)

[Kwai San]

3 hours ago, Simon said:

But it also means he's going to take plenty of shots over the course of the season and the last thing Daboll should be doing is adding to that butcher's bill with a bunch of designed QB carries. I don't care if it's an advantageous matchup, if they continue to rely on it, it will eventually cost them what should be their best year in decades. Just tell him he gets two calls a game where he can use Allen as a ball-carrying option and that's it. There's enough talent on this offense to move the chains in other ways; don't rely on doing it in a manner that's eventually going to end your season.

 

THIS THIS and THIS!  Keeerist on a raft I was screaming Dabol had him run so many times!!!!  WTAF!!!

[Kelly the Dog]

I love Josh but he is reckless with the ball when he runs. That is unarguable at this point in his career. I want Daboll to call some designed runs, especially within ten yards from the goal line. What I don't want is three called runs in a row. Or running him often when you are up 21-0 and the passing game is clicking on all cylinders. He runs enough when pass protection breaks down. I'm not even really worried about him getting hurt. He's huge, tough, and country strong. But he's reckless with the ball and it's obvious. If McD saw this from a RB he would overrule Daboll and bench him. Run him, just half as much. 

[Kwai San]

3 hours ago, Captain_Quint said:

It's a long season, and I dont think this is the gameplan. As the oline gets solidified, I think we will see less JA runs and more work from the running backs. 

We damn well better!!!!

[BuffaloBillsGospel]

I don't think he'll ever taking running out of his game, seems to be a big part of who he is much like Steve Young. The element of running is in his DNA, teaching him how to get out of bounds and stop taking vicious hits needs to be top priority though.

[BillsCuse]

I think Allen is somewhat comparable to Cam Newton in running styles - bigger/tougher guys that are willing to take hits.   They are the "tight end" style of running QB's.  Where Lamar Jackson, Kyle Murray, etc are faster and thinmer "WR" style running QB's.  Even though I think Allen can withstand more hits than a lot of QB's and should still try to use his running as a strength.   Its not going to be sustainable for a long career.  Have to find a happy medium

 

[GG]

8 hours ago, BillsCuse said:

I think Allen is somewhat comparable to Cam Newton in running styles - bigger/tougher guys that are willing to take hits.   They are the "tight end" style of running QB's.  Where Lamar Jackson, Kyle Murray, etc are faster and thinmer "WR" style running QB's.  Even though I think Allen can withstand more hits than a lot of QB's and should still try to use his running as a strength.   Its not going to be sustainable for a long career.  Have to find a happy medium

 

 

When the show Kyler's highlights, the difference is night and day.  Kyler never puts himself in a position for a direct hit and has a naturally beautiful baseball slide when harm is near. 

 

On the first fumble, there was no reason for Josh to be looking for extra yards.  He already picked up the first down, and there was zero chance for him to get in the end zone.  Just slide and move on to the next play!

[Hapless Bills Fan]

14 hours ago, Simon said:

I'm still stunned by this franchise's cavalier attitude toward protecting their young franchise QB. This has been an ongoing issue since the Bills drafted him, whether it's throwing him out there behind an historically inept OLine, surrounding him with smurf WR's and no legitimate TE's or calling up plays that put him in harms way over and over and over again. You don't get players like this at the QB position very often (hell it took us a quarter of a century to replace Jim Kelly) and when you do you make sure you keep them healthy and put them into position to succeed. For the first time in his career Josh Allen has a legitimate NFL offense around him but they still seem intent on piling up hits on this kid at an unsustainable pace.

This is the best team the Bill have put on the field in 25 years and it is all going to go to waste if Josh Allen gets hurt. Daboll is clearly incapable of controlling himself on Sundays so imo it falls unto McDermott to do it for him. He needs to grab his OC by the earlobe and drag him into his office tomorrow morning and tell him to tone it down with the read option nonsense. Allen has a propensity to take off and make plays with his feet if he doesn't like what he sees downfield, and that is fine. But it also means he's going to take plenty of shots over the course of the season and the last thing Daboll should be doing is adding to that butcher's bill with a bunch of designed QB carries. I don't care if it's an advantageous matchup, if they continue to rely on it, it will eventually cost them what should be their best year in decades. Just tell him he gets two calls a game where he can use Allen as a ball-carrying option and that's it. There's enough talent on this offense to move the chains in other ways; don't rely on doing it in a manner that's eventually going to end your season.

 

Hear, Hear!  

 

The second fumble Josh made, pretty sure when the all-22 comes out it will show that he was being upended, as in the pass reception he made to score a TD in Houston, and he had the choice of putting his right forearm down and rolling, or protecting the ball and potentially landing awkwardly on his already surgically repaired shoulder and breaking or mangling it.

 

Now he may have had a window to drop and tuck and was fighting too hard for extra yards, but that’s because he’s a born “gamer”.  Your point still stands.

 

It’s very disturbing to me that we couldn’t manage to run on the Jets except by Josh keeping the ball.  It’s a fair counterpoint that the Jets had one of the best run D’s (2nd I think) in the NFL last season, and I’m sure their game plan was “make Josh be a QB and throw it more than 30 times, and we’ll win”.  Your point still stands.