Redskins facing severe pressure to change name.

[Hapless Bills Fan]

17 minutes ago, MJS said:

I say white players are well dressed and well spoken as well. And I say black players are smart players too.

 

Discuss...

 

Or let's not.  It's this, I do believe:

 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, Bill from NYC said:

Wow, just wow!!! Are you stating that it's a given that black people do not use proper English and that their writing gives it away? Subtle clues? OUCH!!!

 

You probably are not a racist, but this is the way you sound. Imo, talking about "subtle clues" is in a league with calling black people "well dressed" or "well spoken," or even calling white people "smart players."

 

Again, I strongly doubt that you are a racist, but; imho your post did not come off very well at all.

 

I’ve not been following the back and forth here, only commenting on the bold. I was watching TV with my wife recently and she commented on someone, mentioning that person was “well spoken”.  She was referring to a young white guy (golfer?). 

 

I was watching tennis one night and texting with a couple tennis buddies. After the match they interviewed a young black player and I texted that she was very well spoken. My black buddy mentioned that some people would consider that racist. Huh? I had never heard anything like that before. Why? It’s a compliment! We went back and forth for a while. He’s a good friend and knew I meant nothing but exactly what I said, he was just teaching me. We have different life experiences, and you don’t know what you don’t know.

 

If that is his reality, I need to try to be aware of it. He’s the same guy who thought it was hysterical that I had not realized the cop cars changed their paint jobs. “HEY! Guys! He doesn’t even notice!” Everyone thought that was funny at the park. I was the only white guy present. 

 

I pointed this out to my wife so she doesn’t inadvertently step in it the way I did. Part of what we need is more communication and education. 

[LB3]

2 hours ago, section122 said:

 

You have been very staunch in your position but have you ever thought to listen.  I mean truly listen. 

The rest of your post aside, this is always my favorite line from people. It's completely disingenuous because it leaves out the conclusion of the conditional statement being presented.

 

Would you truly accept that he listened if he didn't change his mind after listening?

[Hapless Bills Fan]

23 minutes ago, section122 said:

 

To add to the further discrediting of @Rob's House anecdotal evidence...

 

There is absolutely no way another Professor was brought in and simply told to grade the paper without that Prof asking why he needed to do so.  The "new" Prof would have worked in the same department as the old one and would have been very aware of why he was doing it.

 

There you go with your "academe is a small world and these folks all know each other, especially at the same school" theory.  He or she could have been on sabbatical in a cabin in Northern Ontario without internet access, or (kept in a hermetically sealed case) at another uni or something like that. 

 

 

 

[GoBills808]

1 minute ago, Augie said:

 

I’ve not been following the back and forth here, only commenting on the bold. I was watching TV with my wife recently and she commented on someone, mentioning that person was “well spoken”.  She was referring to a young white guy (golfer?). 

 

I was watching tennis one night and texting with a couple tennis buddies. After the match they interviewed a young black player and I texted that she was very well spoken. My black buddy mentioned that some people would consider that racist. Huh? I had never heard anything like that before. Why? It’s a compliment! We went back and forth for a while. He’s a good friend and knew I meant nothing but exactly what I said, he was just teaching me. We have different life experiences, and you don’t know what you don’t know.

 

If that is his reality, I need to try to be aware of it. He’s the same guy who thought it was hysterical that I had not realized the cop cars changed their paint jobs. “HEY! Guys! He doesn’t even notice!” Everyone thought that was funny at the park. I was the only white guy present. 

 

I pointed this out to my wife so she doesn’t inadvertently step in it the way I did. Part of what we need is more communication and education. 

This is the larger point, and good on you for bringing it up.

 

Situations regarding race and how different people view and experience society are inherently DIFFERENT. Being open to the idea that your frame of reference isn't shared by everyone is the best way forward imo.

 

And not to get into the weeds, but the one of the reasons discussing race gets complicated is because the concept of diversity has been incorrectly set in opposition to the end goal of equality. 

[Hapless Bills Fan]

7 minutes ago, LB3 said:

The rest of your post aside, this is always my favorite line from people. It's completely disingenuous because it leaves out the conclusion of the conditional statement being presented.

 

Would you truly accept that he listened if he didn't change his mind after listening?

 

It would depend upon the evidence that he actually listened and processed anything that was said IMO

[LB3]

8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

It would depend upon the evidence that he actually listened and processed anything that was said IMO

Other than a reversal of his position, what evidence would you accept?

[aceman_16]

1 hour ago, section122 said:

 

To add to the further discrediting of @Rob's House anecdotal evidence...

 

There is absolutely no way another Professor was brought in and simply told to grade the paper without that Prof asking why he needed to do so.  The "new" Prof would have worked in the same department as the old one and would have been very aware of why he was doing it.

Yes it happens. I worked as a professor for 13 years and I have done it a few times. In fact, sometimes the other professors asked me recognizing they may have a bias (one way or another). Sometimes it was because the department chair took a complaint alleging malfeasance.

 

I have had a peer look over a paper once before. Since that time, however, i would have the students put their names on the last page of the paper to help eliminate biases....and YES I would have biases. Oftentimes,  I was shocked to the quality of the paper in both directions as compared to the student.

[Bill from NYC]

2 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

Thank you, Bill.  I will be watching with great interest to see what replies are received to calling "racist" the suggestion that a professor reading a paper written by a student who may have grown up in a different culture may subconsciously recognize those cultural differences, and depending upon the details of his or her grading policy and rubric, that may result in marking it down. ?

Do you think that replies on this board will absolutely dictate whether or not your comment/assumption could be construed to be tinged with, or taken as a racism?

Edited July 7, 2020 by Bill from NYC

[Bill from NYC]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

Part of what we need is more communication and education. 

Absolutely Augie! Of this there can be no doubt.

 

The most intelligent person I ever met was a black Dartmouth professor who taught my daughter. He was from Bedford Stuyvesant in Brooklyn. When asked a question, he would quote not only a book but the page of the book, and not a book they were using in class. The man memorized pages of books that he read. Before the graduation ceremony, he and my daughter were talking about how much they hated the word paradigm, and how it is misused "about 80% of the time."  Do you think that I felt out of place lol? I am just a street guy from Queens.

 

My question is, would someone read the professor's writing and suspect that he is black? This was the point that I was trying to make to HBF.  Very often, people who view themselves as "liberal" are often guilty of the same racial insensitivity that they accuse others of. 

[Warcodered]

8 minutes ago, Bill from NYC said:

Absolutely Augie! Of this there can be no doubt.

 

The most intelligent person I ever met was a black Dartmouth professor who taught my daughter. He was from Bedford Stuyvesant in Brooklyn. When asked a question, he would quote not only a book but the page of the book, and not a book they were using in class. The man memorized pages of books that he read. Before the graduation ceremony, he and my daughter were talking about how much they hated the word paradigm, and how it is misused "about 80% of the time."  Do you think that I felt out of place lol? I am just a street guy from Queens.

 

My question is, would someone read the professor's writing and suspect that he is black? This was the point that I was trying to make to HBF.  Very often, people who view themselves as "liberal" are often guilty of the same racial insensitivity that they accuse others of. 

[aceman_16]

1 hour ago, BUFFALOBART said:

Doubt it 100%, but so what if they did?

Yeah.... so you quoted a response massively out of context. Congrats you just became the MSM.

 

Ps and go back and read what this was a response to - it sorta matters

[Augie]

3 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

Absolutely Augie! Of this there can be no doubt.

 

The most intelligent person I ever met was a black Dartmouth professor who taught my daughter. He was from Bedford Stuyvesant in Brooklyn. When asked a question, he would quote not only a book but the page of the book, and not a book they were using in class. The man memorized pages of books that he read. Before the graduation ceremony, he and my daughter were talking about how much they hated the word paradigm, and how it is misused "about 80% of the time."  Do you think that I felt out of place lol? I am just a street guy from Queens.

 

My question is, would someone read the professor's writing and suspect that he is black? This was the point that I was trying to make to HBF.  Very often, people who view themselves as "liberal" are often guilty of the same racial insensitivity that they accuse others of. 

 

I kinda hate to enter this fray, but there is a story I’ve told here before....and I think it’s time to retell it. Several years ago I had a nice house in Buckhead listed for lease. (It had been leased to an NBA player, and he got traded.) I got a call from a lady who wanted to see the property. She introduced herself over the phone as Ms Johnson. A bit unusual as most people give their full name, but fine with me. I just want a good tenant!

 

It turns out she is a FANTASTIC prospect. Prestigious law school, stable position as a corporate attorney for one of the leading companies in Atlanta. Perfect credit, very low debt/income ratio....IDEAL in every way. It became clear to me that she didn’t share her first name until we met at the property because one might have immediately jumped to the conclusion that she was black. This HIGHLY accomplished individual felt she needed to hide that fact lest she possibly not have the same opportunity to lease this property that someone far less qualified might have.  That made me sad. 

 

This happens in a lot of different ways, not just with names. What school(s) you attended, what you eat, what part of town you live in and so on can all be clues for those who are looking....consciously or otherwise. It’s like age, you can’t ask about age, can’t discriminate based upon it, but you see what year they graduated and how many years of experience they have.....and it tells you something. It’s not always intentional, but it happens. 

 

I see what you’re saying, but I think you are giving some people too much credit. YOU may not look for or see the clues, but some people do. For that reason, good people need to protect themselves against that. We may not see that from where we sit, but their life experience tells us it’s real. ALL of us, and I mean ALL as in EVERYBODY on all sides, need to do more listening if we really want to learn and improve. Some of the things I thought I knew, things that made sense to me, turned out to be very different for others. 

 

 

.

 

 

.

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by Augie

[aceman_16]

11 minutes ago, BUFFALOBART said:

I really don't give a rat's a$$ about a false equivalency.

..Ever hear of tongue, in cheek????

Sometimes it is not good to come out of a safe room too early.

 

 

 

 

Edited July 8, 2020 by aceman_16

[SlimShady'sSpaceForce]

13 minutes ago, aceman_16 said:

Sometimes it is not good to come out of a safe room too early.

 

 

 

 

if I may.   Use the ignore feature. 
 

it’s saved me from responding to these type of exchanges. 
 

 

[aceman_16]

1 minute ago, BUFFALOBART said:

You should take your meds, and remained locked in your rubber room..............

Good idea! Thank you for your consideration.

[aceman_16]

37 minutes ago, SlimShady'sSpaceForce said:

if I may.   Use the ignore feature. 
 

it’s saved me from responding to these type of exchanges. 
 

 

I followed your advice. Thank you.

[MJS]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

I kinda hate to enter this fray, but there is a story I’ve told here before....and I think it’s time to retell it. Several years ago I had a nice house in Buckhead listed for lease. (It had been leased to an NBA player, and he got traded.) I got a call from a lady who wanted to see the property. She introduced herself over the phone as Ms Johnson. A bit unusual as most people give their full name, but fine with me. I just want a good tenant!

 

It turns out she is a FANTASTIC prospect. Prestigious law school, stable position as a corporate attorney for one of the leading companies in Atlanta. Perfect credit, very low debt/income ratio....IDEAL in every way. It became clear to me that she didn’t share her first name until we met at the property because one might have immediately jumped to the conclusion that she was black. This HIGHLY accomplished individual felt she needed to hide that fact lest she possibly not have the same opportunity to lease this property that someone far less qualified might have.  That made me sad. 

 

This happens in a lot of different ways, not just with names. What school(s) you attended, what you eat, what part of town you live in and so on can all be clues for those who are looking....consciously or otherwise. It’s like age, you can’t ask about age, can’t discriminate based upon it, but you see what year they graduated and how many years of experience they have.....and it tells you something. It’s not always intentional, but it happens. 

 

I see what you’re saying, but I think you are giving some people too much credit. YOU may not look for or see the clues, but some people do. For that reason, good people need to protect themselves against that. We may not see that from where we sit, but their life experience tells us it’s real. ALL of us, and I mean ALL as in EVERYBODY on all sides, need to do more listening if we really want to learn and improve. Some of the things I thought I knew, things that made sense to me, turned out to be very different for others. 

 

I just don't think it's possible to not look for "clues" into things. We are hard wired to be constantly taking in mountains of information and categorizing it in order to make decisions. The magnitude of information we are bombarded with constantly requires all of us to simplify and categorize, judge and assess. Pretty much constantly.

 

We are looking for easy patterns to quickly process that information. When we are confronted with new, unseen information it takes us far longer to process it.

 

So no, I don't think it's possible to NOT do that (especially today when the topic of race is so top of mind), nor do I think it is a bad thing at all. What you choose to do with that categorized information is a different story. If you deduce that someone is black or white or asian or any other race, there is nothing wrong with that. If that leads you to racist thoughts or tendencies, that's when it's a problem.

[Augie]

29 minutes ago, MJS said:

 

I just don't think it's possible to not look for "clues" into things. We are hard wired to be constantly taking in mountains of information and categorizing it in order to make decisions. The magnitude of information we are bombarded with constantly requires all of us to simplify and categorize, judge and assess. Pretty much constantly.

 

We are looking for easy patterns to quickly process that information. When we are confronted with new, unseen information it takes us far longer to process it.

 

So no, I don't think it's possible to NOT do that (especially today when the topic of race is so top of mind), nor do I think it is a bad thing at all. What you choose to do with that categorized information is a different story. If you deduce that someone is black or white or asian or any other race, there is nothing wrong with that. If that leads you to racist thoughts or tendencies, that's when it's a problem.

 

It’s when we judge that problems ensue. The fact that so many people fear being judged tells us it’s much too real to them and we all need to do a better job. I thought I was good, but some friends pointed out how they saw some things differently than I did. I still don’t agree that calling someone “well spoken” should be thought racist, but I’m trying to understand their point of view. We all look at life from different angles. It’s not a one size fits all experience. 

 

 

.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Augie

[MJS]

1 hour ago, Augie said:

 

It’s when we judge that problems ensue. The fact that so many people fear being judged tells us it’s much too real to them and we all need to do a better job. I thought I was good, but some friends pointed out how they saw some things differently than I did. I still don’t agree that calling someone “well spoken” should be thought racist, but I’m trying to understand their point of view. We all look at life from different angles. It’s not a one size fits all experience. 

 

It's impossible NOT to judge. That's my point. Judgements can be poor, though. Each person has to work on having better and better judgement.

[Bill from NYC]

4 hours ago, Augie said:

 

 I still don’t agree that calling someone “well spoken” should be thought racist, but I’m trying to understand their point of view. 

 

When used to describe a black person, "well spoken" implies that this is the exception. It's the same for "well dressed." You will not make many friends in the black community using these terms. 

[C.Biscuit97]

Good experiment would be go to your nearest Native American area and start calling them redskins and see how it goes over.  

[SDS]

After 32 pages, I’m moving this over here for any further discussion.

[Niagara]

9 hours ago, MJS said:

 

I just don't think it's possible to not look for "clues" into things. We are hard wired to be constantly taking in mountains of information and categorizing it in order to make decisions. The magnitude of information we are bombarded with constantly requires all of us to simplify and categorize, judge and assess. Pretty much constantly.

 

We are looking for easy patterns to quickly process that information. When we are confronted with new, unseen information it takes us far longer to process it.

 

So no, I don't think it's possible to NOT do that (especially today when the topic of race is so top of mind), nor do I think it is a bad thing at all. What you choose to do with that categorized information is a different story. If you deduce that someone is black or white or Asian or any other race, there is nothing wrong with that. If that leads you to racist thoughts or tendencies, that's when it's a problem.

Call it decisions off of clues, but the real word is prejudices. They are formed off of seeing things on TV news, school or work interactions. But If that leads you to racist thoughts, is that really a problem, or just a byproduct of processing "clues"?

Edited July 8, 2020 by Niagara

[DCOrange]

16 hours ago, section122 said:

 

To add to the further discrediting of @Rob's House anecdotal evidence...

 

There is absolutely no way another Professor was brought in and simply told to grade the paper without that Prof asking why he needed to do so.  The "new" Prof would have worked in the same department as the old one and would have been very aware of why he was doing it.

This same thing basically happened to me as a student, though it wasn't racism, just a professor trying to protect their own.

 

It was in my statistics class my senior year of college. I admittedly took advantage of my professor's non-existent attendance policy/our grade being entirely based off of exams and one project and just didn't go to class outside of exam days so that I could use that time to get work done on my other classes that were more difficult for me. My professor was incensed because she knew I was blatantly skipping her classes every day and then I'd walk in on exam day and get somewhere between a 95-100 on her exams.

 

Then came the project. My partner and I followed all the instructions, did everything just as well as I had done on every exam and she came back to us with a 0, at first accusing us of turning the project in after the deadline. After I confirmed with a handful of other students that we had actually turned it in on time, she stuck us with a 0 anyways and accused us of cheating. The project's weight on our overall grade was high enough that we had failed her class and would have to go to trial for academic integrity to see if we'd be kicked out of school.

 

My partner and I were able to pretty easily prove that we hadn't cheated (or at least prove that she couldn't prove it which is all we had to do since innocent until proven guilty) and the school agreed to have another professor grade our project. That professor happened to be a friend of our professor and despite insuring us that he wasn't being biased at all, he gave us like a 25% or something like that. Thankfully for me that was still enough to narrowly pass the class with a D and graduate (though it did cost me my Dean's List and ***** Laude status). My partner however hadn't aced the exams like I did so he had to re-take the course his last semester in order to graduate with us.

 

Our beloved professor ended up being fired a year later. She remains one of maybe two people in this world that I feel comfortable saying I legitimately hate.

[ALF]

Saw a bumper  sticker    " Indians are people

                                            redskins are potatoes"

 

 

 

                                        

[MJS]

3 hours ago, DCOrange said:

This same thing basically happened to me as a student, though it wasn't racism, just a professor trying to protect their own.

 

It was in my statistics class my senior year of college. I admittedly took advantage of my professor's non-existent attendance policy/our grade being entirely based off of exams and one project and just didn't go to class outside of exam days so that I could use that time to get work done on my other classes that were more difficult for me. My professor was incensed because she knew I was blatantly skipping her classes every day and then I'd walk in on exam day and get somewhere between a 95-100 on her exams.

 

Then came the project. My partner and I followed all the instructions, did everything just as well as I had done on every exam and she came back to us with a 0, at first accusing us of turning the project in after the deadline. After I confirmed with a handful of other students that we had actually turned it in on time, she stuck us with a 0 anyways and accused us of cheating. The project's weight on our overall grade was high enough that we had failed her class and would have to go to trial for academic integrity to see if we'd be kicked out of school.

 

My partner and I were able to pretty easily prove that we hadn't cheated (or at least prove that she couldn't prove it which is all we had to do since innocent until proven guilty) and the school agreed to have another professor grade our project. That professor happened to be a friend of our professor and despite insuring us that he wasn't being biased at all, he gave us like a 25% or something like that. Thankfully for me that was still enough to narrowly pass the class with a D and graduate (though it did cost me my Dean's List and ***** Laude status). My partner however hadn't aced the exams like I did so he had to re-take the course his last semester in order to graduate with us.

 

Our beloved professor ended up being fired a year later. She remains one of maybe two people in this world that I feel comfortable saying I legitimately hate.

I don't get why teachers care if students come to class or not. They don't get paid for attendence.

 

If students know the material they shouldn't care. Now if a student is skipping class AND doing poorly on assignments and exams, that's a different story and the teacher might want to intervene (I'd still not care if it was me).

 

People pay thousands of dollars to go to college. If they don't want to go to class that's their business.

 

But many classes I had for my undergrad had some kind of attendence requirement.

[Rob's House]

23 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:

 

If we're going to be un-naive and not accept things at face value, it's possible that the credit card algorithm mistakenly flagged transactions of black customers as fraudulent because their spending patterns matched the spending patterns of stolen cards; it's possible the "other professor grading the paper" was not as blinded to the identity of the author as you believe, or that both professors were reacting subconsciously to subtle clues in the writing that marked it as the work of a person of color but that did not impact the actual content or argument; it's possible that the pizza place was not flagging equally crime-ridden white neighborhoods, or was denying service to black neighborhoods that were no more crime ridden along with those with legit high crime rates.

 

None of those things are true. WRT to the credit card issue, I worked that job for several years and was very familiar with the process. There are particular patterns that have a high correlation with fraudulent use. The purpose is to stop credit card fraud that costs the company money. A black person's card is no more likely than a white person's card to be used, nor is there a higher incident of a black person's card being flagged. 

 

The pizza place did not deliver to white areas with comparable crime rates. Management didn't give a ***** about safety or race of anyone, all they cared about was making money. The only reason for restricting the delivery area was difficulty staffing and legal liability/insurance concerns. They even explored the idea of delivering to those neighborhoods because all they care about is money. I recall a black guy telling a manager, "tell your white ass bosses to go down there, because I'm not."

 

And I knew the guy who wrote the paper in question, and he was a moron. I didn't read the paper but from his classroom comments I can only imagine a B was an act of generosity. And the first teacher was Indian (dots not feathers) and the one who did the blind grade was a gay liberal. 

 

When writing for the school paper I also did a story on the school's cancellation of a step show that was said to have been cancelled because it was "too racial." The guy in charge was very forthcoming and showed me the files. It turned out that the proposed step show was going to take up the entire activity budget and no one showed up for the meeting to discuss it. Following up on my initial leads I could find no one with first hand knowledge to the contrary, and it was a small school. The editor of the paper revised my article to run with the initial report instead of the findings of my investigation. Every black student on that campus thought the step show was cancelled because of racism.

 

As I made very clear, these are just a few examples that illustrate the point that perception is not always reality.

 

Quote

 

It's also possible that all these things you experienced did not have a racist cause, and yet those anecdotal experiences would not disprove that black and brown people may indeed start life in this country without an equal chance of equal success for similar personal qualities, or that black and brown people as a whole don't experience racism that may not stop them from achieving success, but that does impact them and affect their daily lives.

 

Maybe so, maybe not. But the point is that just because one perceives something as racist doesn't necessarily make it so. Are we just to assume pervasive anti-black racism because we're told to, or is it too much to ask for some evidence to support that assertion?

 

Quote

 

 

I think you mistake "others are afraid and threatened by this discussion" for "others choose not to engage with you because they perceive your posts and arguments as dogmatic and framed to reinforce your belief set, rather than having genuine intellectual interest in open exploration and exchange of information and ideas"

Prove me wrong: explain what you would accept as convincing evidence that racism still exists, and that systemic racism hindered the success of black families through the late '60s and beyond.

 

1. I think it's a bit of projection to label my arguments as dogmatic when I'm simply asking for evidence to support a narrative that is being presented as incontrovertible fact, and a fact that must be swiftly and strongly acted upon, without any evidence to support it, and places an obligation on all of us to contribute under threat of physical "discomfort".

 

2. I've never claimed racism doesn't exist. There are and always will be racist people of all colors. That doesn't mean that it is one-sided or that it is an overwhelming force of oppression for people in 21st century America.

 

3. As I've stated before, if this anti-black racism is as prevalent as you claim, I would expect to see significant evidence. Instead I see correlation conflated with causation, examples where racism is inferred solely on the basis of the respective races of those involved, and anecdotes that often prove false. 

 

 

Quote

 

 

Can you prove that we're the freest and most prosperous country in the history of the world?  What are your criteria for this?  Does it specifically include criteria for the prosperity and freedom of black and brown people, or is this just another way of saying "I got mine, Hell with You bub"?

 

This one's a little harder to quantify with precision, but if you look at the standard of living in all predominantly black countries compared to the living standard of blacks in America it isn't even close. Median household income for black Americans is over $40,000. The global average is around $10,000.00. Predominantly black countries are among the poorest. Of the 12 countries with the highest black populations outside of Africa the only ones that are even in the conversation are Canada, France, and the UK.

 

https://www.worlddata.info/average-income.php

https://www.statista.com/statistics/233324/median-household-income-in-the-united-states-by-race-or-ethnic-group/

http://statisticstimes.com/economy/african-countries-by-gdp-per-capita.php

http://www.culturaldiplomacy.org/index.php?en_programs_diaspora

 

 

Quote

 

 

Rob, Rob, Rob, Rob. 

Don't you think it's naive of you to accept wherever you read or heard that, at face value?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_empires

https://www.history.com/news/7-influential-african-empires

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenwood_District,_Tulsa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulsa_race_massacre

https://www.history.com/news/georgia-racial-expulsion-stacey-abrams

https://www.npr.org/2016/09/15/494063372/the-racial-cleansing-that-drove-1-100-black-residents-out-of-forsyth-county-ga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_expulsions_of_African_Americans

 

Some of these empires were pretty free and prosperous.  Some of the residents of these towns and business districts, ditto

What are your criteria and how can you prove that on average, black Americans today are freer and more prosperous than blacks living in historical black empires, the Ghana Empire, Mali, Aksum and Adal on the Horn, etc etc?  Or blacks pre-1919 who had spent 50 years post-slavery working to achieve prosperity for their families only to have that wealth wrested from them during the bloody summer of 1919 and to be denied Government jobs when Wilson segregated the federal government?

 

The fact that you have to go back 100+ years to make your point really makes my point. By your criteria there would always be overt racism even if were completely eradicated from the world because you could always drudge up facts from the distant past.

 

And no people were as prosperous 100 years ago as we are today. Most people didn't even have indoor plumbing back then. Most African countries still don't.

 

Quote

 

Don't confuse agreement with Travis Heath that debate with pseudo-intellectual white dudes about the existence and effects of racism in the US based upon assertion, personal experience as a white male, and personal belief bolstered by selected information interpreted selectively for being "threatened" or "upset" by you.

 

 

 

And here is the core of your argument. A weak ad hominem. "Your opinion is invalid because of the color of your skin, ergo, I am right."

Edited July 8, 2020 by Rob's House

[Gugny]

4 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

And the first teacher was Indian (dots not feathers) and the one who did the blind grade was a gay liberal. 

 

Are you ***** kidding me?

[Rob's House]

Just now, Gugny said:

 

Are you ***** kidding me?

 

No, he really was from India.

[Jauronimo]

4 minutes ago, Rob's House said:

 

No, he really was from India.

What class was this?  Women's studies?

Edited July 8, 2020 by Jauronimo

[DCOrange]

2 hours ago, MJS said:

I don't get why teachers care if students come to class or not. They don't get paid for attendence.

 

If students know the material they shouldn't care. Now if a student is skipping class AND doing poorly on assignments and exams, that's a different story and the teacher might want to intervene (I'd still not care if it was me).

 

People pay thousands of dollars to go to college. If they don't want to go to class that's their business.

 

But many classes I had for my undergrad had some kind of attendence requirement.

 

Agreed. And if she had an attendance policy, then yeah, feel free to punish me for not attending (though I would have attended if it was necessary and just figured out another way to get the rest of my ***** done). But you can't openly tell us that attendance is optional and then try to fail kids for not attending. It was pretty much the only time I've ever gotten in trouble in school at all (the only other time was a lunch detention back in 7th grade for shooting a basketball when we weren't supposed to lol). It was one of the most stressful times of my life since I was trying to apply for jobs after graduation while dealing with that and I had to try to explain to potential employers why I had nearly failed a math class while applying for math-ish jobs without trying to come across like I was making excuses for myself (even though I was completely in the right).

[K-9]

5 hours ago, ALF said:

Saw a bumper  sticker    " Indians are people

                                            redskins are potatoes"

 

 

 

                                        

Redskins are a kind of peanut, too.

[aceman_16]

3 hours ago, Gugny said:

 

Are you ***** kidding me?

^^^ IS the issue ^^^ either he was kidding to throw salt on the wound or TRULY has no idea how he comes across. However, either answer serves as the impetus of his opinion/takes/posts.

[Augie]

12 hours ago, Bill from NYC said:

When used to describe a black person, "well spoken" implies that this is the exception. It's the same for "well dressed." You will not make many friends in the black community using these terms. 

 

Well, I know this......NOW. Fortunately, my black tennis buddy felt comfortable enough to explain it to me. Is it right that someone else can take my words and assign a totally different context or meaning to it? No. BUT....Is it right that the black community should feel a need to take offense to such a comment? No again. Sadly, I’m sure that feeling exists for a reason, because of real life experience. I’m thankful to my buddy for explaining it. Communication leads to better understanding. 

 

I’m sure the young white golfer my wife said the exact same words about would have no reason to assign some other meaning. It wasn’t code for anything in either case. 

[Bill from NYC]

13 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Well, I know this......NOW. Fortunately, my black tennis buddy felt comfortable enough to explain it to me. Is it right that someone else can take my words and assign a totally different context or meaning to it? No. BUT....Is it right that the black community should feel a need to take offense to such a comment? No again. Sadly, I’m sure that feeling exists for a reason, because of real life experience. I’m thankful to my buddy for explaining it. Communication leads to better understanding. 

 

I’m sure the young white golfer my wife said the exact same words about would have no reason to assign some other meaning. It wasn’t code for anything in either case. 

I understand what you are saying. Here is my view:

 

Doug Whaley wore some of the nicest suits I for one have ever seen. That statement is not at all cliché. There are zero insinuations or implications, whereas well spoken and well dressed have been around for many, many years. Again, it implies that they are the exception. I have seen "well spoken" used many times on this board, and I am NOT calling anyone who said this a racist. I guess that the only reason I know this is because a black friend told me about these terms several decades ago. As I said, resentment for these terms is nothing new.

 

Btw I remember an interview with Chris Speilman when he was on the Bills. "I think that it was in SHOUT." Chris was built like an ox and practiced as hard as any player. He was offended by being called a "smart player." I agreed with him. He was a very good player as much or more for his physical ability as his brains. I would make the same case for London Fletcher, except that I don't remember him being called a "smart player," but he truly was.

 

I like to believe/hope that we are now past this kind of thing.