Buffalo Sabres & NHL 2020-2021

[May Day 10]

20 minutes ago, Jauronimo said:

Krueger being fired was kinda exciting until you think about Kevyn Adams or Kim Pegula hiring the next coach.  Maybe with the price of WTI back at $65 PSE can afford a total reorg and put someone competent in charge of the hockey operations.

 

Terry Pegula said he was immediately impressed with Krueger's worldly background and philosophies.

"There was a feeling when Ralph came in the room that it was almost a presence. It was like, 'Well, this guy's different,'" he said. "We started talking to Ralph and we didn't want to leave. I took so many notes, I stopped taking notes because Ralph's a quote machine."

Pegula was particularly impressed by Krueger's decision to visit Buffalo and spend time talking to fans in bars while watching the NHL playoffs to get a sense of the city.

"It's so ingenious," he said. "He's an out-of-the-box thinker."

 

 

 

AND

 

 

 

Kim Pegula, who works hand in hand with her husband, added her perspective.

"Obviously, no matter what you do, you always make mistakes. But I feel like they all lead to something else," she said.

"At the time you always think you're doing what you think is right with the information you have. But now as we sit here, all those steps, whether they were mistakes or not, is kind of where we are now," she added. "You can't think they're all bad because we've got Jack (Eichel), we've got (Jeff) Skinner, we've got (Rasmus) Dahlin. ... So all that wouldn't have happened if other things didn't happen. Sometimes, they were mistakes, but they're not."

 

 

Completely doomed

[BillsVet]

31 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

Bottom line is they still have an organization in shambles.  Kevyn Adams has no experience or qualifications, nor it is it clear he even has authority.  They have this Nightengale intern level guy upjumped to head up like 3 departments.  Nothing is changing here.  I expect them to dive into the milquetoast pool of NCAA coaches who almost never work out.

 

Terry and Kim have become the emperor(s) who have the proverbial lack of clothes on.  That is, they no longer can look in the mirror and acknowledge they are in way over their heads.  Blaming everyone but themselves and occasionally bemoaning a lack of cash flow from a moribund team they mismanage.

 

I know COVID hit them hard, but even before that franchise was losing money.  Gone are the days of season ticket wait lists.  Or, parties in the plaza. 

 

Maybe when Eichel demands a trade they'll have the humility to see it's they're fault.  God help us if they try to wrest control away from McDermott and Beane.

 

[snafu]

Firing Kruger isn't going to change anything.

 

[Jauronimo]

29 minutes ago, snafu said:

Firing Kruger isn't going to change anything.

 

Its true.  Eichel and Skinner have scored zero goals since Krueger was fired. Same as it ever was.

[BillsFan4]

This is why it terrifies me to think about this current front office trading Eichel, or any of our core players for draft picks. 

If they make major trades, I really hope the main pieces coming back to Buffalo are other NHL players or prospects close to NHL ready. Not that I have much faith in their pro scouting dept. but at least NHL players are a known quantity. You’re not relying on a bare bones scouting staff that’s only watched video clips of the players they’re drafting. 
 

I can’t help but think of that dumb *** Terry Pegula quote about how you don’t need a big scouting staff because you have technology that allows you to watch video of players frame by frame 🤦‍♂️
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/31-thoughts-no-easy-answers-addressing-sabres-messy-situation/sn-amp/

Quote

From what I can tell, GM Kevyn Adams has a sensible plan. He’s testing the market on his players and gauging the possibility of a post–Jack Eichel future. I think that’s the right approach, but my concern is how you get there from here.

 

Should this be Buffalo’s future — another rebuild with an Eichel-sized hole in the middle — you must give yourself the best opportunity to thrive. [B]The Sabres staff is thin — likely the thinnest in the NHL. As more and more scouts from other teams return to the road, they don’t see much Sabres representation. [/B]Video scouting is absolutely necessary, and they’ve definitely made that investment. However, you cannot use it as an excuse to eliminate boots on the ground, especially now that the Canadian junior leagues are revving up. You might get 25 to 30 views of draft eligibles between now and the 2021 selections.

 

There’s at least one NHL team that hired several “bird dogs” to provide coverage in areas they felt they couldn’t get to. You must go the extra mile. That’s my biggest question about the organization. If you’re going to change your core to try a new direction — again — are you giving yourselves the best opportunity?

 

[Nextmanup]

Trading any of our big names without first trying it with a real NHL head coach would be a colossal mistake.

 

Just remember, if the Sabres put a trade package together involving Eichel or Reinhart, we aren't going to be getting a better player back in the deal.

 

 

[4merper4mer]

25 minutes ago, Nextmanup said:

Trading any of our big names without first trying it with a real NHL head coach would be a colossal mistake.

 

Just remember, if the Sabres put a trade package together involving Eichel or Reinhart, we aren't going to be getting a better player back in the deal.

 

 

I agree depending on who is considered a big name.  If anyone is willing to take Skinner it should be done yesterday.  That contract is an albatross.  A 4th rounder in 2096 would be about right.

[K-9]

It’s fitting that tonight’s game is postponed due to COVID protocols. We would have sucked anyway this season, but COVID did as much as anything to derail this season early on. I’ll be glad when it’s over. 

[T&C]

1 hour ago, K-9 said:

It’s fitting that tonight’s game is postponed due to COVID protocols. We would have sucked anyway this season, but COVID did as much as anything to derail this season early on. I’ll be glad when it’s over. 

Had no idea it was postponed... I was actually going to watch it to see if there was any new found "fire" from the players after the firing of Ralph. Thanks for the heads up... haven't watched one in a few weeks.

[May Day 10]

I think the postponement got postponed

[K-9]

4 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

I think the postponement got postponed

I just saw that. Doesn’t matter, because I cancelled this season weeks ago and haven’t watched a game since then, anyway.

[TBBills]

Game just started aaand the Sabres are losing.

[Buffalo Barbarian]

On 3/17/2021 at 11:11 AM, BillsVet said:

 

Terry and Kim have become the emperor(s) who have the proverbial lack of clothes on.  That is, they no longer can look in the mirror and acknowledge they are in way over their heads.  Blaming everyone but themselves and occasionally bemoaning a lack of cash flow from a moribund team they mismanage.

 

I know COVID hit them hard, but even before that franchise was losing money.  Gone are the days of season ticket wait lists.  Or, parties in the plaza. 

 

Maybe when Eichel demands a trade they'll have the humility to see it's they're fault.  God help us if they try to wrest control away from McDermott and Beane.

 

 

How is it that the Bills are killing it and the Sabres are trash??  shouldn't running sports teams basically have the same structure even if they are different sports ??

 

Maybe McBeane should hire the next coach and GM.

 

 

[Buffalo Barbarian]

With the glass protecting the players from covid , why are the fans so far away? Also place sounds dead, is there only 100 people in there??

 

 

[MarkyMannn]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

With the glass protecting the players from covid , why are the fans so far away? Also place sounds dead, is there only 100 people in there??

 

 

Place was quiet with 16,000

 

13 in a row😐

Edited March 19, 2021 by MarkyMannn

[BADOLBILZ]

1 hour ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

How is it that the Bills are killing it and the Sabres are trash??  shouldn't running sports teams basically have the same structure even if they are different sports ??

 

Maybe McBeane should hire the next coach and GM.

 

 

 

 

Listening to Paul Hamilton a couple weeks ago.........he said that the Pegula's turned over full control of the Bills to McD and Beane..........and even though its working they regret giving up all of that control.........so don't look for them to do the same with the Sabres.     Hockey was the sport Terry Pegula was more familiar with.........it makes sense that he feels like he knows more about it and wants to have more control.    The problem is that it's not working and the dysfunction has actually gotten worse despite having much more talent than the "tank" years.   It's unfortunate that they've turned out to be SO bad at this.......I'm sure it takes a lot of the fun out of it when you think you are too rich to fail at it.........and then instead you are so bad at the job that you just have to turn over full control and your primary contribution is just to sign the checks.  

[BillsVet]

2 hours ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

How is it that the Bills are killing it and the Sabres are trash??  shouldn't running sports teams basically have the same structure even if they are different sports ??

 

Maybe McBeane should hire the next coach and GM.

 

 

 

The NHL and the NFL are apples and oranges.  In one, fellow owners essentially help others and finding good management is not as challenging.  There's a massive television contract to divide. 

 

In the other, well, it's run by Bettman and a lot of clowns and owners tend to look out for their own interests.  As a result, the Pegula's are now making decisions more based on money than anything else.  This, compared to the Bills who are guaranteed a 300M yearly share of television revenue.  

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by BillsVet

[May Day 10]

The nfl is more structured from the coach-out. The coach is often the ceo of football.  In the NHL they are hired and cast away as tools to manipulate players.  

 

Nhl is harder and takes longer to build than the nfl.  You have to draft 18 year olds from numerous leagues that are apples to oranges all over the world.  Then you have to develop them.  The salary cap with guaranteed contracts is unforgiving.  Less good players move around.

 

Nfl you can blow out and rework a roster/system/organization in 2 years time.  Can even potentially find 4-7 starters in the draft, or more if you are rebuilding and get some udfa

 

The NHL is much more president/gm driven.

 

The pegulas tried to carry the empowered coach model to the NHL and it was a complete trainwreck

Edited March 19, 2021 by May Day 10

[BillsFan4]

just a reminder that almost none of these people were ever replaced. They just promoted some totally inexperienced people from within to the head amateur & pro jobs.

 

On 3/17/2021 at 6:56 PM, BillsFan4 said:

This is why it terrifies me to think about this current front office trading Eichel, or any of our core players for draft picks. 

If they make major trades, I really hope the main pieces coming back to Buffalo are other NHL players or prospects close to NHL ready. Not that I have much faith in their pro scouting dept. but at least NHL players are a known quantity. You’re not relying on a bare bones scouting staff that’s only watched video clips of the players they’re drafting. 
 

I can’t help but think of that dumb *** Terry Pegula quote about how you don’t need a big scouting staff because you have technology that allows you to watch video of players frame by frame 🤦‍♂️
https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/31-thoughts-no-easy-answers-addressing-sabres-messy-situation/sn-amp/

 

Quote

[B]The Sabres staff is thin — likely the thinnest in the NHL. As more and more scouts from other teams return to the road, they don’t see much Sabres representation.[/B]

 

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by BillsFan4

[May Day 10]

Its not just amateur scouting.  You can argue that at this time amateur scouting isnt needed as a lot of leagues are delayed or not allowing people in.

 

Pro scouting is absolutely critical.  You need boots on the ground there to scout the other players for upcoming UFA, trades.  get a feel for their mental state, rub elbows around the league.  Not to mention watching and analyzing other teams for a competitive and schematic advantage.

 

[BillsFan4]

https://www.nbcsports.com/video/buffalo-sabres-fire-ralph-krueger-jack-eichel-out-foreseeable-future?ls=social-vid
 

Bob McKenzie on the Sabres coaching search. ^

It doesn’t inspire much hope (for me, anyway). Kevyn Adams plans to do an exhaustive search including NHL assistant coaches, AHL coaches, college coaches, junior hockey coaches, etc. which may sound good in theory but for me, it just screams “I have no idea who the top candidates are or who I want”.

 

But he’s probably never put together a list of coaches before. Most GMs and asst. GM’s have a short list of coaches that they think are the top guys and/or meet their criteria. Adams wouldn’t have ever had a reason to put together a list like that and he has no NHL front office experience so he wouldn’t really know who the top candidates are.

 

ugh.

[BillsVet]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

Listening to Paul Hamilton a couple weeks ago.........he said that the Pegula's turned over full control of the Bills to McD and Beane..........and even though its working they regret giving up all of that control.........so don't look for them to do the same with the Sabres.     Hockey was the sport Terry Pegula was more familiar with.........it makes sense that he feels like he knows more about it and wants to have more control.    The problem is that it's not working and the dysfunction has actually gotten worse despite having much more talent than the "tank" years.   It's unfortunate that they've turned out to be SO bad at this.......I'm sure it takes a lot of the fun out of it when you think you are too rich to fail at it.........and then instead you are so bad at the job that you just have to turn over full control and your primary contribution is just to sign the checks.  

 

I heard that as well and it aligns with those personalities that have had control of their private business.  They buy a pro sports team and delegate authority to people they hired.  Ralph couldn't do it and he had years of bad Bills teams. 

 

The irony is the Pegula's hockey knowledge is more limited than they're willing to acknowledge.  Something anecdotal, but a friend of mine covers the Sabres and once remarked that Terry frowned on Russian prospects at draft time because one (I think Grigorenko) didn't work out.  It was part of the reason they passed on a Russian defenseman in a later draft who's pretty good now in favor of a forward they traded. 

 

The Pegula's have created a vicious circle in management. They make bad hires, progressively get more insulated from the hockey world, and the results get worse.  They respond with the Ralph strategy of hiring strictly insiders like Adams who has no experience.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  

 

I really wonder how they'll handle getting a trade demand from Eichel.  Will they blame him to cover their own butts?  I don't know, but at this point it's an emperor has no clothes sort of situation.  They just don't know how bad they are and don't seem willing to look in the mirror.

[BillsFan4]

9 minutes ago, May Day 10 said:

Its not just amateur scouting.  You can argue that at this time amateur scouting isnt needed as a lot of leagues are delayed or not allowing people in.

 

Pro scouting is absolutely critical.  You need boots on the ground there to scout the other players for upcoming UFA, trades.  get a feel for their mental state, rub elbows around the league.  Not to mention watching and analyzing other teams for a competitive and schematic advantage.

 

Leagues are starting back up though and the Sabres don’t have any scouts there (see the article + quote I linked at the bottom). 
 

But I agree 100% with you about the pro scouts. I know the Sabres only had a few pro scouts even before all the firings (and shockingly, I don’t think any of their pro scouts were fired even after having horrible luck identifying pro talent (see ROR trade)). Their pro scouting dept. has been an issue for years. 
 

I just looked at their staff directory and they don’t even have separate pro and amateur scouts listed anymore. They have 7 scouts to cover the entire ******* globe! 🤦‍♂️

 

https://www.nhl.com/sabres/team/staff

[May Day 10]

9 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I heard that as well and it aligns with those personalities that have had control of their private business.  They buy a pro sports team and delegate authority to people they hired.  Ralph couldn't do it and he had years of bad Bills teams. 

 

The irony is the Pegula's hockey knowledge is more limited than they're willing to acknowledge.  Something anecdotal, but a friend of mine covers the Sabres and once remarked that Terry frowned on Russian prospects at draft time because one (I think Grigorenko) didn't work out.  It was part of the reason they passed on a Russian defenseman in a later draft who's pretty good now in favor of a forward they traded. 

 

The Pegula's have created a vicious circle in management. They make bad hires, progressively get more insulated from the hockey world, and the results get worse.  They respond with the Ralph strategy of hiring strictly insiders like Adams who has no experience.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  

 

I really wonder how they'll handle getting a trade demand from Eichel.  Will they blame him to cover their own butts?  I don't know, but at this point it's an emperor has no clothes sort of situation.  They just don't know how bad they are and don't seem willing to look in the mirror.

 

This is so similar to the 00s Wilson/Brandon Bills it is scary.  This is actually worse though because IMO, a hockey organization is a bit more complex than an NFL team.  At least as far as the element of drafting 18 year olds from all over the world, developing, and signing long term contracts that could potentially cripple your payroll for 8 years.  The immediacy of the NFL draft helps, as do non-guaranteed contracts.

 

The Bills never came close to bottoming out like the Sabres have done a handful of times in the past 7 years.

[Greg S]

18 minutes ago, BillsVet said:

 

I heard that as well and it aligns with those personalities that have had control of their private business.  They buy a pro sports team and delegate authority to people they hired.  Ralph couldn't do it and he had years of bad Bills teams. 

 

The irony is the Pegula's hockey knowledge is more limited than they're willing to acknowledge.  Something anecdotal, but a friend of mine covers the Sabres and once remarked that Terry frowned on Russian prospects at draft time because one (I think Grigorenko) didn't work out.  It was part of the reason they passed on a Russian defenseman in a later draft who's pretty good now in favor of a forward they traded. 

 

The Pegula's have created a vicious circle in management. They make bad hires, progressively get more insulated from the hockey world, and the results get worse.  They respond with the Ralph strategy of hiring strictly insiders like Adams who has no experience.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  

 

I really wonder how they'll handle getting a trade demand from Eichel.  Will they blame him to cover their own butts?  I don't know, but at this point it's an emperor has no clothes sort of situation.  They just don't know how bad they are and don't seem willing to look in the mirror.

 

It's amazing that they were able to get it right with the Bills. I just hope they leave Beane and McDermott alone and don't "F" things up with the Bills. I am not a Sabres fan (Isles fan here) but I really hope they can get it right for the Sabres fans sakes. For the longest time the Isles were run like a **** show and it sucks for the fans to deal with.

[Rockpile233]

12 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

Listening to Paul Hamilton a couple weeks ago.........he said that the Pegula's turned over full control of the Bills to McD and Beane..........and even though its working they regret giving up all of that control.........so don't look for them to do the same with the Sabres.     Hockey was the sport Terry Pegula was more familiar with.........it makes sense that he feels like he knows more about it and wants to have more control.    The problem is that it's not working and the dysfunction has actually gotten worse despite having much more talent than the "tank" years.   It's unfortunate that they've turned out to be SO bad at this.......I'm sure it takes a lot of the fun out of it when you think you are too rich to fail at it.........and then instead you are so bad at the job that you just have to turn over full control and your primary contribution is just to sign the checks.  

I didn’t hear that interview. The Bills have never been in better shape since I was a little kid and they REGRET giving up that much control? 
 

The smartest people know what they know and know what they don’t know. Unfortunately I’m very skeptical that anything will change.

[May Day 10]

The part that stuck with me was when they fired Murray/Bylsma.  During the PC, one of Pegula's answers were that he really regretted not making the decisions on GM and coach and how that would not happen again.

 

The owner having a hand in picking the coach is poison in the NHL.  It makes a toxic well for any prospective general manager.  Thats just not how it works.  In the NHL you arent looking for a life-partner coach.  If it happens and you stumble on a unicorn coach who has 10 years of staying power, great.  But they are the exception to the rule.  

[BillsFan4]

1 hour ago, BillsFan4 said:

just a reminder that almost none of these people were ever replaced. They just promoted some totally inexperienced people from within to the head amateur & pro jobs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well, scratch one more name off that list...

 

 

[May Day 10]

That reeks of a Ralph Kruger position.  A lot of this downsizing/efficiency reeks of Kruger.  Hopefully.  

 

 

Man, imagine being a billionaire and so gullible as these Pegulas.

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

[Buffalo Barbarian]

14 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

The NHL and the NFL are apples and oranges.  In one, fellow owners essentially help others and finding good management is not as challenging.  There's a massive television contract to divide. 

 

In the other, well, it's run by Bettman and a lot of clowns and owners tend to look out for their own interests.  As a result, the Pegula's are now making decisions more based on money than anything else.  This, compared to the Bills who are guaranteed a 300M yearly share of television revenue.  

 

 

 

so they never are going to win, great

 

 

[BillsVet]

2 minutes ago, Buffalo Barbarian said:

 

so they never are going to win, great

 

 

 

How did it come to pass that people acclimated to beginning sentences with, "so?"  Grammar is becoming a lost art, as is handwriting. 

 

[BillsFan4]

 

[BillsFan4]

gee, good thing the NHL said contact tracing came back fine before last night’s game and NHL doctors said they could play.

 

What a ****** joke.

[BillsFan4]

Lots of good Sabres related talk here:

 

https://podcast.sportsnet.ca/31-thoughts/crossroads-with-kaleb-dahlgren/

 

Some interesting Bills/Sabres related info right around 13mins in.

 

Friedman says that it’s believed Beane & McDermott came to some sort of written agreement with the Pegulas on exactly what they’re allowed to do and it prohibits the Pegulas from interfering too much. But with the Sabres there’s never been that type of agreement.

 

worth a listen. 
 

some terrifying scouting talk info around 19mins.

 

They're saying the Sabres might be scouting 90% by video.

90%!! 😯
 

ans they’re not even scouting entire countries like Finland and Russia, or entire leagues in juniors. Crazy.

 

edit - here’s part of what I was talking about:

 

 

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by BillsFan4

[K-9]

Just happened to catch a snippet of an interview with Risto about today’s practice. He was impressed and grateful that the SPEED of the practice was actually like a REAL game. Said they never did that. I couldn’t believe my ears. 
 

It’s long been said that you play like you practice and I’ve always added “And you practice like you’re coached.” Risto’s comments are a testament to the total amateurish ability of Krueger. Unbelievable!

[BillsFan4]

5 minutes ago, K-9 said:

Just happened to catch a snippet of an interview with Risto about today’s practice. He was impressed and grateful that the SPEED of the practice was actually like a REAL game. Said they never did that. I couldn’t believe my ears. 
 

It’s long been said that you play like you practice and I’ve always added “And you practice like you’re coached.” Risto’s comments are a testament to the total amateurish ability of Krueger. Unbelievable!

Paul Hamilton went off about this the other day. He said they practice slow. No pace. They never stop drills when they miss a pass or go Offside, even when it happens over and over.

 

He said it’s been that way with every coach. Bylsma. Housley. Krueger. The last coach who stopped practice for mistakes and demanded the execute it right was Lindy ruff. 
 

 

Go watch the first interview with Don Granato. I thought he threw some shade at Krueger. Said practices will be run much differently (and he emphasized MUCH).

 

 

just one more example of how desperately they need a competent coach, and why I want someone proven like Boudreau or my dream that’ll never happen, Brind’amor. 
 

I remember when Marcus Foligno was traded to Minnesota when Boudreau was there. He said it was like a different world. How they practiced and played. How they were coached. How much Boudreau demanded of them. etc.

 

Edited March 19, 2021 by BillsFan4

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, BillsVet said:

 

I heard that as well and it aligns with those personalities that have had control of their private business.  They buy a pro sports team and delegate authority to people they hired.  Ralph couldn't do it and he had years of bad Bills teams. 

 

The irony is the Pegula's hockey knowledge is more limited than they're willing to acknowledge.  Something anecdotal, but a friend of mine covers the Sabres and once remarked that Terry frowned on Russian prospects at draft time because one (I think Grigorenko) didn't work out.  It was part of the reason they passed on a Russian defenseman in a later draft who's pretty good now in favor of a forward they traded. 

 

The Pegula's have created a vicious circle in management. They make bad hires, progressively get more insulated from the hockey world, and the results get worse.  They respond with the Ralph strategy of hiring strictly insiders like Adams who has no experience.  Wash, rinse, repeat.  

 

I really wonder how they'll handle getting a trade demand from Eichel.  Will they blame him to cover their own butts?  I don't know, but at this point it's an emperor has no clothes sort of situation.  They just don't know how bad they are and don't seem willing to look in the mirror.

 

 

On the bright side at least Eichel hasn't had 20 masseuses join in a civil suit against him yet so it's actually not at rock bottom. 

[BADOLBILZ]

8 hours ago, Rockpile233 said:

I didn’t hear that interview. The Bills have never been in better shape since I was a little kid and they REGRET giving up that much control? 
 

The smartest people know what they know and know what they don’t know. Unfortunately I’m very skeptical that anything will change.

 

 

It's possible that it's just no fun for a self-made billionaire to be hands-off.   Not talking about a guy who inherited his money.       

 

[May Day 10]

47 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:

 

 

It's possible that it's just no fun for a self-made billionaire to be hands-off.   Not talking about a guy who inherited his money.       

 

 

I get that, but this has to be less than fun.  It's been an embarrassing endeavor for 10 years.

 

There is a happy medium between feeling involved and choosing your nhl coaches over your gm's head and funding his wife's Senate campaign.

 

I remember he was in on bills stuff and the search for qbs.  Give him a stopwatch and throw him in a corner.