NoSaint Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Here is a good quote from Brees for all you who think he doesn't have a right to express his opinion. He does and he did. I think people dont understand what a right means. People do not have the right to force me to agree with everything they think. Enjoy this quote.... "I will never know what it's like to be a black man or raise black children in America but I will work every day to put myself in those shoes and fight for what is right." Well said Mr. Brees he unfortunately follows it with “I recognize that I am part of the solution and can be a leader for the black community in this movement. ” he needs to understand he is not the qb of the black rights movement, he is the support staff. I do imagine that’s difficult for a man wired like him - but when he gets it, it’ll get him out of hot water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: He is not protesting during a 3rd down play. I like that he makes you uncomfortable. That is the point. You don't get to decide when he is actually "on the job". It also does not really matter, the "on the job stuff" if it were a real sentiment would be directed more towards the league itself (and the owners) and not the players. Players aren't getting suspended for kneeling during the anthem. The league didn't think enough of it, or could not collectively bargain a resolution. So as of right now, players are allowed kneel on the job with minimal to no employer repercussions. It is just noise and a distraction to their real complaints. That they either don't understand, don't want to understand, or they think the cause is not important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Tuesday Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, FireChans said: Oh, I did. And I’m white. I think you’re right. There are some folks who didn’t realize cops could kill you until extremely recently. But it’s not just cops. You can get shot while jogging. You can get framed while bird watching. There is racism everywhere, even if it wasn’t your reality it’s the reality for many. Again, now is the time to LISTEN, something folks hate doing these days. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Does Conehead stop selling beer in the concourse when the anthem is playing? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: But it’s not just cops. You can get shot while jogging. You can get framed while bird watching. There is racism everywhere, even if it wasn’t your reality it’s the reality for many. Again, now is the time to LISTEN, something folks hate doing these days. Yeah I mean sure. Racially charged crimes are a problem. Is there really any way to fix the people who commit them? Or just punish them when they inevitably happen? Edited June 4, 2020 by FireChans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Call_Of_Ktulu Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Warren Zevon said: Does Conehead stop selling beer in the concourse when the anthem is playing? No he actually keeps going, his passion for selling beer is something to behold. His cardio is also truly amazing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, FireChans said: Yeah I mean sure. Racially charged crimes are a problem. Is there really any way to fix the people who commit them? To Perfection? No. To make great progress? Of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augie Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: He is not protesting during a 3rd down play. I like that he makes you uncomfortable. That is the point. You don't get to decide when he is actually "on the job". He doesn’t make me uncomfortable at all. Who said that? If you want to be political at work, you will probably be gone. Pretty simple, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, NoSaint said: To Perfection? No. To make great progress? Of course What strategies do you suggest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nextmanup Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 12 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: I did not. I grew up in a white suburb with peaceful cul-de-sacs and no fear of interacting with the police. I’m fortunate and I realize it, but it’s time for me and others like to me quietly listen to what it was like for people who grew up in a very different America. I love how white folks who grew up in sleepy little communities around WNY want to declare what it's like for blacks in big cities and other portions of America, as if they have any clue as to what the F they are talking about. ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mango Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Augie said: He doesn’t make me uncomfortable at all. Who said that? If you want to be political at work, you will probably be gone. Pretty simple, really. But players are political at work (the NFL), and the NFL is not banishing or forbidding them (other than Kaep possibly). So I guess you don't have a problem with it, since their employer is allowing it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoSaint Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, FireChans said: What strategies do you suggest? not going to deep dive race relation strategies right now, but am 100% comfortable saying there are a variety of ways to make progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflabillsfan1 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 13 minutes ago, Coach Tuesday said: But it’s not just cops. You can get shot while jogging. You can get framed while bird watching. There is racism everywhere, even if it wasn’t your reality it’s the reality for many. Again, now is the time to LISTEN, something folks hate doing these days. You realize blacks kill twice the amount of whites every year then vice versa right? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 28 minutes ago, nedboy7 said: Here is a good quote from Brees for all you who think he doesn't have a right to express his opinion. He does and he did. I think people dont understand what a right means. People do not have the right to force me to agree with everything they think. Enjoy this quote.... "I will never know what it's like to be a black man or raise black children in America but I will work every day to put myself in those shoes and fight for what is right." Well said Mr. Brees Too bad he never said anything like that BEFORE his tone deaf statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrober38 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Drew can say whatever he wants. But he has to live with the consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 3 hours ago, whatdrought said: What an idiotic example of our society silencing someone who doesn't buy the party line. As far as his comments go.. how exactly is kneeling during the anthem not a sign of disrespect for the flag? We stand in reverence (see, respect) and honor, so kneeling would be the opposite. What am I missing here? No one is silencing Brees. How exactly is kneeling disrespecting a flag? We don't stand for the flag, we stand for the national anthem. People sit, stand, do cartwheels, and lay down near flags all the time. Edited June 4, 2020 by Jauronimo 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: No one is silencing Brees. How exactly is kneeling disrespecting a flag? We don't stand for the flag, we stand for the national anthem. People sit, stand, do cartwheels, and lay down near flags all the time. I have US flag swim trunks. Can't remember a specific time but I bet I've farted in them. Edited June 4, 2020 by Warren Zevon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: No one is silencing Brees. How exactly is kneeling disrespecting a flag? We don't stand for the flag, we stand for the national anthem. People sit, stand, do cartwheels, and lay down near flags all the time. Oh wow, well if PEOPLE do that, then everyone must agree with it! I am very smart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Warren Zevon said: I have flag swim trunks. I'm pretty sure a shocking number of people who think Kaep should be tried for sedition have flag mankinis, shirts, and flag mud flaps. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krf139 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Wait a minute - I thought this was supposed to be a "conversation." If this is the case, it has to be two way with everyone being heard and not being bullied into certain opinions. This will never work and IMO is a big part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, FireChans said: Oh wow, well if PEOPLE do that, then everyone must agree with it! I am very smart. That was low effort and dumb, even for you. Lets not conflate the flag, with the anthem, with the military, and with the country as a whole. The flag used to fly in every classroom. Did you stand all day at school or stand at attention? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: No one is silencing Brees. How exactly is kneeling disrespecting a flag? We don't stand for the flag, we stand for the national anthem. People sit, stand, do cartwheels, and lay down near flags all the time. Correct, but they're "cancelling" him in that he isn't allowed to dissent and have a reasonable opinion without being the bad guy. He's just weak for bowing to that culture of intellectual abuse and close-mindedness that is so prevalent in our society. Because we stand for the anthem and and the flag (turning towards the flag, looking at the flag, the anthem is about the flag, etc) as a sign of respect. So the opposite would be disrespect. His intentions are clearly to disrespect the flag in protest. I don't think it's the federal offense some want to make it, but that's exactly what he's doing intentionally. Why not call it what it is? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: His intentions are clearly to disrespect the flag in protest. His words say something else, though. Is there a reason you do not believe what he says? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: That was low effort and dumb, even for you. Lets not conflate the flag, with the anthem, with the military, and with the country as a whole. The flag used to fly in every classroom. Did you stand all day at school or stand at attention? I did the pledge of allegiance every morning. The flag flew at half mast every time there was a tragedy to symbolize our unity as Americans. Didn’t you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: Correct, but they're "cancelling" him in that he isn't allowed to dissent and have a reasonable opinion without being the bad guy. He's just weak for bowing to that culture of intellectual abuse and close-mindedness that is so prevalent in our society. Because we stand for the anthem and and the flag (turning towards the flag, looking at the flag, the anthem is about the flag, etc) as a sign of respect. So the opposite would be disrespect. His intentions are clearly to disrespect the flag in protest. I don't think it's the federal offense some want to make it, but that's exactly what he's doing intentionally. Why not call it what it is? His intentions are clearly to disrespect the anthem. He's been on record that he believes its a poor composition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWATeam Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Correct, but they're "cancelling" him in that he isn't allowed to dissent and have a reasonable opinion without being the bad guy. He's just weak for bowing to that culture of intellectual abuse and close-mindedness that is so prevalent in our society. Because we stand for the anthem and and the flag (turning towards the flag, looking at the flag, the anthem is about the flag, etc) as a sign of respect. So the opposite would be disrespect. His intentions are clearly to disrespect the flag in protest. I don't think it's the federal offense some want to make it, but that's exactly what he's doing intentionally. Why not call it what it is? Right. People are not allowed to have opinions about Drew's opinions... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Warren Zevon said: His words say something else, though. Is there a reason you do not believe what he says? Yes. Because his actions prove his intent? This isn't me saying Kapernick is un-American or horrible or anything else. In fact, in a vacuum outside of him and my opinions on this, we can still logically deduce what is happening. The National Anthem plays as a tribute to the flag of the United States of America. Attendees are asked to stand and remove their hats and place their hands on their heart while facing the flag to honor our flag and our Country. (honor = respect). From this moment there's three actions possible: 1- stand and show respect/honor to the anthem and the flag. 2- sit and don't move which is, I suppose, neutral at best, but likely more negative. 3- Do some other thing to demonstrate a rebellion to the act of showing honor and respect, such as kneeling. Thus showing, and declaring outright, that you neither respect nor honor the flag. How is this so hard to understand? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflabillsfan1 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, SWATeam said: Right. People are not allowed to have opinions about Drew's opinions... People opinion is Bree's has to change his opinion to fit theirs or risk being cast out of society. Pathetic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warren Zevon Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Yes. Because his actions prove his intent? This isn't me saying Kapernick is un-American or horrible or anything else. In fact, in a vacuum outside of him and my opinions on this, we can still logically deduce what is happening. The National Anthem plays as a tribute to the flag of the United States of America. Attendees are asked to stand and remove their hats and place their hands on their heart while facing the flag to honor our flag and our Country. (honor = respect). From this moment there's three actions possible: 1- stand and show respect/honor to the anthem and the flag. 2- sit and don't move which is, I suppose, neutral at best, but likely more negative. 3- Do some other thing to demonstrate a rebellion to the act of showing honor and respect, such as kneeling. Thus showing, and declaring outright, that you neither respect nor honor the flag. How is this so hard to understand? Kneeling with attention to the flag shows much more respect than sitting and not moving. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jauronimo said: His intentions are clearly to disrespect the anthem. He's been on record that he believes its a poor composition. You're saying he's protesting the music itself? Yikes. This whole situation has been misrepresented. As for your "only the anthem argument" I appreciate you trying that, but there's really no way to separate the anthem from the flag: Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early lightWhat so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming?Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight,O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming?And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet waveO'er the land of the free and the home of the brave? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, FireChans said: I did the pledge of allegiance every morning. The flag flew at half mast every time there was a tragedy to symbolize our unity as Americans. Didn’t you? We did the pledge every morning. Its quite strange looking back at it that as a 5 year old I swore allegiance to the flag and my country every morning. But after the pledge we sat down. So it seems that the act of sitting or taking a knee isn't disrespecting a flag else we're all guilty. Kaep always stood for God Bless America. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Warren Zevon said: Kneeling with attention to the flag shows much more respect than sitting and not moving. IMO I mean, okay. But his act of kneeling was a statement that he refused to stand for the flag.... Which is to say he refuses to stand in respect of it. Outside of his agenda and the points he was trying to make, his was still an act of rebellious disrespect. Again, from a purely semantics point of view, how can this be debated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: Correct, but they're "cancelling" him in that he isn't allowed to dissent and have a reasonable opinion without being the bad guy. He's just weak for bowing to that culture of intellectual abuse and close-mindedness that is so prevalent in our society. Because we stand for the anthem and and the flag (turning towards the flag, looking at the flag, the anthem is about the flag, etc) as a sign of respect. So the opposite would be disrespect. His intentions are clearly to disrespect the flag in protest. I don't think it's the federal offense some want to make it, but that's exactly what he's doing intentionally. Why not call it what it is? All due respect, but that’s your interpretation of his intentions. Kaepernick and others have explained their intentions on numerous occasions. We just refuse to take them at face value. There are probably a myriad of reasons for that, but I suspect they revolve around our need to project our own intentions in some defensive manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: We did the pledge every morning. Its quite strange looking back at it that as a 5 year old I swore allegiance to the flag and my country every morning. But after the pledge we sat down. So it seems that the act of sitting or taking a knee isn't disrespecting a flag else we're all guilty. Kaep always stood for God Bless America. You sat??? We stood everyday. You were indoctrinated by a self-loathing culinary arts school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whatdrought Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, K-9 said: All due respect, but that’s your interpretation of his intentions. Kaepernick and others have explained their intentions on numerous occasions. We just refuse to take them at face value. There are probably a myriad of reasons for that, but I suspect they revolve around our need to project our own intentions in some defensive manner. All due respect, but you're missing my point: 7 minutes ago, whatdrought said: Yes. Because his actions prove his intent? This isn't me saying Kapernick is un-American or horrible or anything else. In fact, in a vacuum outside of him and my opinions on this, we can still logically deduce what is happening. The National Anthem plays as a tribute to the flag of the United States of America. Attendees are asked to stand and remove their hats and place their hands on their heart while facing the flag to honor our flag and our Country. (honor = respect). From this moment there's three actions possible: 1- stand and show respect/honor to the anthem and the flag. 2- sit and don't move which is, I suppose, neutral at best, but likely more negative. 3- Do some other thing to demonstrate a rebellion to the act of showing honor and respect, such as kneeling. Thus showing, and declaring outright, that you neither respect nor honor the flag. How is this so hard to understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Motorin' Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 4 hours ago, Hapless Bills Fan said: I doubt it. But a person can recognize how their beliefs impact others without changing theirs. This is Brees apology: "I would like to apologize to my friends, teammates, the City of New Orleans, the black community, NFL community and anyone I hurt with my comments yesterday," Brees wrote in an Instagram post. "In speaking with some of you, it breaks my heart to know the pain I have caused." He's not apologizing for his views, he's apologizing for causing hurt and pain with his comments. I don't think Brees would have angered anyone if he had said, "I can never see myself taking a knee... This is what the anthem means to me, and it will always mean that... But I respect that other people see it differently than I do." What seems to have made people angry was to suggest that taking a knee dishonors his grandfathers and the men who fought in WWII. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jauronimo Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, whatdrought said: All due respect, but you're missing my point: Have you considered the option that everyone understands your oversimplifications and still disagrees? Kaepernick spoke at great length what he was protesting. To disregard his words because of an idiom like "actions speak louder than words" while disregarding all of his other actions is about as compelling as citing "breakfast is the most important meal of day" for why Kaep meant to disrespect the flag. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FireChans Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Jauronimo said: Have you considered the option that everyone understands your oversimplifications and still disagrees? Kaepernick spoke at great length what he was protesting. To disregard his words because of an idiom like "actions speak louder than words" while disregarding all of his other actions is about as compelling as citing "breakfast is the most important meal of day" for why Kaep meant to disrespect the flag. Explain the pig socks bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hapless Bills Fan Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 Just now, Motorin' said: I don't think Brees would have angered anyone if he had said, "I can never see myself taking a knee... This is what the anthem means to me, and it will always mean that... But I respect that other people see it differently than I do." What seems to have made people angry was to suggest that taking a knee dishonors his grandfathers and the men who fought in WWII. Agree. Lot of things he could have said that could have expressed his viewpoint but acknowledged other people's views (and their pain) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted June 4, 2020 Share Posted June 4, 2020 1 minute ago, whatdrought said: All due respect, but you're missing my point: How, exactly? You clearly stated that you know that Kaepernick’s intention was to disrespect the flag. I pointed out that he and others have explained that wasn’t their intention and that we just can’t accept that. Simple enough. What greater point did you make that I missed? Actually, never mind. I get it and it’s been hashed over ad nauseam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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